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Thread Number: 1033
Does Cycle Time Really Matter |
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| Post# 54017 1/20/2005 at 08:48 (7,029 days old) by cleanclothes () | ||
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Okay. I need opinion's here. When it comes to frontload washers, does cycle time really matter? Also, what is the big deal about an internal heater? Thanks for all of your opinions. | ||
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| Post# 54025 , Reply# 1 1/20/2005 at 10:16 (7,029 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
Doesn't matter, as long as it gets the job done. The internal heater is helpful because the small amount of water in the washer can quickly cool down. Some FL's have a very long wash, so the water that entered the machine as hot is cold by the time it drains. So a heater will keep wash water nice and toasty. Also, because there is so little water, it can be heated to higher-than-tank temperatures relatively easily. | ||
Post# 54045 , Reply# 3 1/20/2005 at 14:25 (7,029 days old) by foraloysius  (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Well actually...
Yes, it does matter. There are four factors that are important in the washing process: 1. Mechanical action 2. Chemicals (water and detergent) 3. Temperature 4. Time These four things have influence on the washing result. If you decrease one of those factors you have to increase one of the others in order to get the same result. Ofcourse you can't take one totally away, because you won't have a process at all. So time is indeed in important factor, not only in a frontloader, but also in a toploader. That's why a heavy cycle is longer than a light cycle. I'm sorry to disappoint you again Austin, but a lower water level is really better in a frontloader. Washing in a frontloader is a bit like the oldfashioned way of washing by beating clothes on a rock. When the clothes fall down in the tumbling process in a frontloader they need to fall on the drum, not in the water. The stone in the old fashioned process was not in the water but above the water level. The laundry was saturated and after that beaten on the rock. That was repeated over and over and that how laundry became clean. Extensive research have proven this and that's why modern frontloaders with low water levels in the wash cycle get clothes cleaner than their high water level counterparts. I know the older ones are more spectacular to look at, but the newer ones really clean better. | ||
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Post# 54051 , Reply# 5 1/20/2005 at 16:14 (7,029 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Those large vanes might indeed have influence here, they might increase the mechanical action. Perhaps they work more or less like an agitator in a toploader. BTW, a reversing drum, or tumbling both ways was common here in Europe right from the beginning of the frontloaders here. I was really surprised when I saw that the older American frontloaders didn't do that. To answer your last question: it might look that two washers fill and wash the same, but only small differences can have influence. A vane that is shaped a bit different, or more holes in the drum. A somewhat bigger drum, a somewhat lower water level. Longer wash times, or slightly hotter water, all these factors have influence on the effectivity on the water. Louis | ||
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Post# 54056 , Reply# 6 1/20/2005 at 17:03 (7,029 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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What one wants is a drum with a large enough diamater and "vanes" to lift and drop loads of laundry to achive the "rock beating" effect. Good washing action lessens the need for long wash cycles . If one watches a commercial/laundrette washer, when they are loaded correctly laundry moves from 11-4 and 1-7, falling a nice height and "smacking" against the drum. Many home front loaders are more concerned with using their paddles to "scoop and shower" water than raising and dropping laundry, IMHO. You hardly ever see perforated fins on commercial front loaders, but rather sturdy solid SS fins. Launderss | ||
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Post# 54058 , Reply# 7 1/20/2005 at 17:10 (7,029 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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And Furthermore
Washing rythyms also factor into cycle time. A good heavy wash cycle, that has more rotations with fewer and shorter pauses will clean better than one that has fewer rotations, with long pauses. Again using the "beating laundry against a rock" theory, the more aggressive one is about slapping the laundry about, the faster soils will be removed. Launderess | ||
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Post# 54117 , Reply# 9 1/21/2005 at 10:25 (7,028 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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You are more or less right. But the drumspeed is also important. A fully loaded European frontloader can still have a decent wash action due to the fact that the drumspeed is that fast that the clothes still drop at a 5'o clock position. And I don't think it is really necessary for all the parts to hit the surface at least once before reversing action. As long as all the parts eventually get the same treatment everything will come clean.
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Post# 54209 , Reply# 11 1/22/2005 at 09:58 (7,027 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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My Miele uses several speeds in one wash cycle. It actually starts half way one rotation. It begins at 40rpm wich is intended for saturating the clothes. Then there is a pause to let the water get into all the fibres of the clothes. After that pause the drum starts rotating the other way at 55rpm which is the actual washing phase. After a while it goes back to 40rpm again to saturate the clothes again. So there is really a comparison to beating clothes on a rock LOL.
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Post# 54726 , Reply# 14 1/26/2005 at 09:44 (7,023 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 54727 , Reply# 15 1/26/2005 at 09:50 (7,023 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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G-force calculator
Here's the link to a G-force calculator. I measured 47 centimeters, so the radius in millimeters is 235. With a rotationspeed of 40, the G-force is 0.4. At 55rpm, the G-force is already 0.8. I also calculated that at top spinspeed, 1400rpm, the G-forces are 515. CLICK HERE TO GO TO foraloysius's LINK | ||
| Post# 54782 , Reply# 16 1/26/2005 at 16:09 (7,023 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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Post# 54909 , Reply# 17 1/27/2005 at 04:37 (7,022 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Peter, Mine is a little different. My Miele is from the first Novotronich generation. It tumblens the first five minutes indeed at 40rpm for 10 seconds and then a pause of 5 seconds. After that it tumbles at 55rpm for 7 seconds then slows down to 40rpm for 4 seconds and then a 4 seconds pause. That goes on until the end of the main wash. Every routine is also 15 seconds. Here some figures about the final spin cycle: 90 seconds on 900rpm: G = 212.8 90 seconds on 1100rpm: G = 317.9 3 minutes on 1400rpm: G = 515 | ||
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