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Thread Number: 10452
Is There Any Such Thing as a Reliable FL? |
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Post# 191246 2/15/2007 at 14:14 (6,273 days old) by rp2813  (Sannazay) |
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After reading reviews on line, it seems there's no such thing as a reliable front loading machine with a capacity of over 3.5 cu ft. In some cases (like Frigidaire made models) even small machines don't seem to last more than a few years. I'd like to buy a FL that will handle my king size comforter but if you go large they are all electronic controls that have a tendency to fail and/or frustrate. What's a guy to do if he wants a FL that's not going to give him problems right out of the gate? If I wait I feel quality will only deteriorate more. Anyone out there want to share your views on this? Ralph | ||
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Post# 191248 , Reply# 1 2/15/2007 at 14:21 (6,273 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Post# 191253 , Reply# 2 2/15/2007 at 14:32 (6,273 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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You know Togs, after all I've read on the FL's and the horror stories of early failure and going a week or more waiting for repairs or parts, my long stroke Amana is looking like a keeper for the time being. It just got a new belt (it's 4th since new in '97) so it's good for at least a couple more years. I saw the deal this week on the HE2's and thought I'd go for it but have really cooled off on that now. Were the old Westy Laundromats problem prone? They seem like such simple systems that would run forever. What has happened to Whirlpool that they turn out such unreliable machines anymore? You pay $800 for a machine, it has a serious problem after a couple of years and it's basically totaled. Something is seriously wrong with that situation. | ||
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Post# 191262 , Reply# 4 2/15/2007 at 15:15 (6,273 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT) |
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I never realized....
How fast the TL is as opposed to the FL. I have had my Maytag FL since 1997(replacing a GE FFlo). I forgot how much faster the cycle is completed with my new Maytag TL DC. But I guess all is relative. Since the FL takes a bit longer, I guess the dry time is reduced because of the high speed spin. And since the TL takes less time to complete the cycle, I would imagine that the extra time would me made up in the dry cycle. I have to agree with the 'sloshing' and amount of water. But, everything comes out great with the FL. Absolutely no complaints. You use less soap and less water. | ||
| Post# 191266 , Reply# 5 2/15/2007 at 15:28 (6,273 days old) by golittlesport (California) | ||
Electrolux 
From my personal experience, I think the Frigidaire FL's are pretty dependable...and they are the least expensive. My first "Frigmore" gave me 7 years of heavy and perfect service and now lives in an apt filled with college boys (mis)using it - and it's still running great. Remember, people tend to post when they are unhappy with something. I think for every post of Frigidaire bearing problems (many of which were probably caused by operator error - oversudsing and excess bleach) there are a thousand machines chugging along fine. It takes only 5 to 10 minutes longer than a top loader...and if you use an extra rinse on the TL, the FL will finish first!
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Post# 191268 , Reply# 6 2/15/2007 at 15:33 (6,273 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Post# 191272 , Reply# 7 2/15/2007 at 15:45 (6,273 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT) |
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As long as the job gets done to everyone's satifaction. | ||
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Post# 191288 , Reply# 10 2/15/2007 at 16:33 (6,273 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Sad but true commentary about the lifespan of contemporary washers. Rich, I kind of was thinking the same thing, that people who are unhappy are more likely to say so. I was also thinking that misuse was a factor. I'm getting so much pressure from my partner to go for the HE2 pair (which are Duet knockoffs--Sport, I think but slightly larger capacity) now that I advised him that they appeared to be a good deal, although adding pedestals does increase the cost by almost $400 -- for nothing but a hollow shell (no storage) under each machine. That seems excessive on Sears' part. I may cave in and keep my fingers crossed that following instructions properly is key. On the other hand, if I go home tonight and say nothing I'll have a pocket veto on this. But then I'll have to deal with pouting and complaining that will drive me nuts every time he goes to use the current washer. I live with a 57 year old child, you see. For my peace of mind I might just go through with this and then when something goes wrong I'll just let him handle it--and pay for the repairs out of his own account! No way I can afford a Miele. Wish I could. Thanks for the input everybody. | ||
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Post# 191293 , Reply# 11 2/15/2007 at 16:48 (6,273 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) |
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Maybe your partner doesn't like the "look" of 
But I still recommend you get one, that is the full size Duet. The Duet sport is a smaller version and the pedestals for them sound like a rip off. As for him complaining and pouting, tell him that maybe if he feels that grouchy that NetptuneBob says that he probably needs more fiber. Have you looked at the Chinese GE washers at Sam's Club? I don't hear bad things about them and they could be a compromise and they don't cost as much as a Duet. Best of all, while you are there you can also buy a club size Metamucil. | ||
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Post# 191299 , Reply# 12 2/15/2007 at 17:13 (6,273 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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.....as long as the job gets done to everyone's satifact
Yes I agree. I have a 10 year old Fridigaire FL set that has been washing 4-5 loads a week since new! We have not had a single problem with them during their entire life with us. Granted when doing very heavy loads (i.e all towels) the washer drive belt does "chatter" a bit while washing, but this has not been, nor lead to any problems. I would really like to see the wash cycle (mechanical timer) programmed a little different, but that is just my preference. But again, zero problems. ============= Addressing "Hreodbeorht's" concern about "...a drum that's filled with a cup of water." Has anyone considered modifying their FL washer to achieve a higher water lever? At least on mine it would be pretty easy to do! I modified my washer to tumble as it filled w/water. Previously (when original) the drum would just "sit there" until the "proper water level" was reached, then would it tumble. The dry cloths soak up the water, but it would not always refill to the "proper level". Now it's no problem and I am a happy camper. | ||
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Post# 191366 , Reply# 13 2/15/2007 at 21:03 (6,273 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Tumbler and NeptuneBob, I definitely have noticed the lack of complaints about the Duets. Seems strange that the Kenmores that are supposedly the same machines are having so many issues. I've decided to hold off and pursue a Duet pair when I see a deal. Sears is too much of a rip-off with the pedestals and without them the doors are a little too low. My partner has a bad back and shouldn't be stooping. These machines will be in the garage so there's no issue with how they look. My issue is that the washer's door isn't reversible. Our configuration requires the washer to be on the right, and yet the door on it will only swing left. So we either deal with it or get longer supply hoses and switch the machines around. Thanks for all the comments here guys. It makes me feel better to see people who know how to use a washer properly are not having any problems with front loaders. I see Lowe's has Whirlpools at 10% off through Monday. Once I saw where they were throwing in the pedestals free. Might wait/hope for that to come back around and go for it. I have heard about the Chinese GE's being all Whirlpool parts but just don't want to feed that made-in-China monster. As for more fiber, Bob, my partner is enough to clean up after already! Ralph | ||
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Post# 191380 , Reply# 14 2/15/2007 at 22:07 (6,273 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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Ralph, I also suggest you just go with the Duets. I suggested my mother buy one to replace here aging (and then troublesome) late 70's Maytag 2 years ago. She has been very happy wih it and has had no problems. As for washer location... yes I suggest you "bite the bullet" and just get longer hoses for the washer so the door swing will be correct. Kevin | ||
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Post# 191412 , Reply# 16 2/15/2007 at 23:28 (6,272 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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I called Lowes and talked with a great girl who was very informative. We talked Whirlpool vs Kenmore vs Maytag. I'm going to check out the Duet model GHW9300PW tomorrow and matching gas dryer. Supposedly it's being discontinued and there aren't many left in stock. It looks like the first style Duet to me--the "gay" looking one but hey, mine is a gay household anyway. I like the control knob better and it's got a clear window!!! The price is a few dollars more than Sears wants for their smaller HE2. This Duet is 3.8 cu ft compared to the HE2's 3.5. and the dryer is bigger too. Also the washer has a built in water heater, something the basic HE2 doesn't. Lowes will rebate 100% of the delivery charge and offers an extended warranty, $139 for 5 years and it covers both machines. Between that, the 10% off, and rebates from my power and water companies this is looking like the way to go. Forgot to ask pedestal price but I know it's going to be less than Sears. Thanks Scott and Kevin, and yes, I'm going for the longer hoses. . . OK everybody, remember we have a 12-year old in our midst here! | ||
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Post# 191432 , Reply# 17 2/16/2007 at 00:11 (6,272 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Bauknecht is Whirlpool
And, sadly, not the best part of them, either. Look, I am "German", says so right here on my passport. But I was born in Colorado. Until Whirlpool bought them, Bauknecht was known for good design and ergonomics, but were never, shall we say, the "quality leader" in the German market. I worked with their sales department and marketing for a few years as a contractor. Yes, quality is improving. But you must not compare them to Miele. Or even LG. The Frigimores have three operator caused problems and went through a period about 99-00 when some idiot designed in bad bearings. Models before or after that era are not inherently bad. The bearing seal is not as tough as it should be. BUT: The spider cracking problem and the bearing failure problem are both tied to the same thing: These machines were originally built for the low-sudsing, no-chlorine bleach European (not talking UK so please don't flame me) market. If you use HE detergent and don't use Chlorine bleach, they last forever. Too many suds and the bearing will fail. Too much alkalinity and the spider will corrode. The third problem is cultural. Here in Europe, we always leave the tub door open a crack and give the rubber boot a quick wipe. Since stuff is washed in very cold water in the US (our "warm" is 145°F) and folks tend to close the door you quickly get a mold and slime problem. Just run a hot load once a month, add some citric acid to it or use oxygen bleach regularly. Leave the door open, wipe the lip at the front dry (yes, check the drum before you wash, I read about the poor wee kitten) and your FL will run just fine. The spider is made of aluminum alloy...the tub is stainless steel...there is a reason they put bits of aluminum in Drano... If if may make a suggesstion. Living with dogs and cats, I have washed a lot of comforters over the years. Yeah, my 7kg LG can do it. But the best results and least wear on such monster loads is at a well run coin laundry. I have also learned to use "duvet covers" on my comforters - those can be washed anywhere and it cuts down on the cat hair over time. I have timed my mom's 1200rpm Frigimore against her "Frigidaire TL" at 400rpm (typical WW junk). Sure, the TL washed faster. But add in drying time (not to mention the detergent residue you have without an extra rinse or two) and the FL is only 10-15 minutes slower. But cleaner! Less residue! So we need to stop comparing apples and oranges here. | ||
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Post# 191433 , Reply# 18 2/16/2007 at 00:12 (6,272 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Bauknecht is Whirlpool
And, sadly, not the best part of them, either. Look, I am "German", says so right here on my passport. But I was born in Colorado. Until Whirlpool bought them, Bauknecht was known for good design and ergonomics, but were never, shall we say, the "quality leader" in the German market. I worked with their sales department and marketing for a few years as a contractor. Yes, quality is improving. But you must not compare them to Miele. Or even LG. The Frigimores have three operator caused problems and went through a period about 99-00 when some idiot designed in bad bearings. Models before or after that era are not inherently bad. The bearing seal is not as tough as it should be. BUT: The spider cracking problem and the bearing failure problem are both tied to the same thing: These machines were originally built for the low-sudsing, no-chlorine bleach European (not talking UK so please don't flame me) market. If you use HE detergent and don't use Chlorine bleach, they last forever. Too many suds and the bearing will fail. Too much alkalinity and the spider will corrode. The third problem is cultural. Here in Europe, we always leave the tub door open a crack and give the rubber boot a quick wipe. Since stuff is washed in very cold water in the US (our "warm" is 145°F) and folks tend to close the door you quickly get a mold and slime problem. Just run a hot load once a month, add some citric acid to it or use oxygen bleach regularly. Leave the door open, wipe the lip at the front dry (yes, check the drum before you wash, I read about the poor wee kitten) and your FL will run just fine. The spider is made of aluminum alloy...the tub is stainless steel...there is a reason they put bits of aluminum in Drano... If if may make a suggesstion. Living with dogs and cats, I have washed a lot of comforters over the years. Yeah, my 7kg LG can do it. But the best results and least wear on such monster loads is at a well run coin laundry. I have also learned to use "duvet covers" on my comforters - those can be washed anywhere and it cuts down on the cat hair over time. I have timed my mom's 1200rpm Frigimore against her "Frigidaire TL" at 400rpm (typical WW junk). Sure, the TL washed faster. But add in drying time (not to mention the detergent residue you have without an extra rinse or two) and the FL is only 10-15 minutes slower. But cleaner! Less residue! So we need to stop comparing apples and oranges here. | ||
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Post# 191435 , Reply# 19 2/16/2007 at 00:13 (6,272 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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sorry 'bout that...hit send with the wrong text | ||
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Post# 191440 , Reply# 21 2/16/2007 at 00:40 (6,272 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Don't forget the Mega Miele
Miele has just come out with a 4.0 cu ft (IEC) front loader for the American market. Yes, it's pricey ($1600 to $1900), and it's untested in the marketplace, but it does come from a company with perhaps the best reliability track record in the world for front loading residential washers. If your goal is a king size front loader with the best chance of lasting a long time, I think the Miele is calling you. | ||
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Post# 191442 , Reply# 22 2/16/2007 at 00:51 (6,272 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Sorry? What for
You're right - those "real" Maytags and the thumpers (except the rollermatics and WI-18s) were the best TLs ever built. Ok, the best washers I have ever seen are mid-seventies Miele FLs. They were designed for life. But it is pretty sad...since I repaired the timer motor on a 1978 A108 for my nieces last year, I have seen three new TLs break down. And that Maytag is washing diapers for two babies and work clothes for four adults. Every day. I figure, 2012 or so will be time to replace a seal in the tranny. Probably gonna have to do the rollers on the sled with belts 'bout 2014 or so, too. But, hey...it is no stretch to think this washer will probably still be going when the kids hit college. | ||
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Post# 191499 , Reply# 23 2/16/2007 at 09:33 (6,272 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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This quality and durability issue doesn't apply just to washers. Car makers like Mercedes now consider it acceptable for an owner to have to replace a failed transmission in less than five years. Seems nobody wants to make a Maytag anymore. Everything is designed to fail--so you'll buy new-- and the consumers aren't rising up and complaining. I read recently that the bug-riddled Windows operating system has created a situation where nobody expects anything to work properly anymore, and younger consumers don't know any better. Bill Gates has enough money. He needs to be ordered to buy the old Newton plant, start cranking out the old Maytags again and atone for his actions!
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| Post# 191530 , Reply# 25 2/16/2007 at 11:33 (6,272 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
Vintage Maytags...
Ralph: Since you were kind enough to congratulate me on my "new" Maytags, I'm going to chime in here with a question: Since you're part of a group that has an interest in vintage machines, why not just go vintage? That Maytag pair I just got was less than $200, and they work fine. Even allowing for some repairs and a higher energy cost, it would be quite a while before I approached the cost of a new FL pair. Plus, if anything goes wrong, the machines are mechanically understandable, so that self-repair is an option for most problems. Try that with a Duet (unless you're very adept with appliances, which you may be, for all I know). Even if you're not adept at all, and wanted to buy perfectly restored units, you could still do that for less than you're spending, and have better reliability. C'mon, join the fun! - Sandy (who spent two hours yesterday getting years of someone else's lint out of his A106's lint filter) | ||
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Post# 191545 , Reply# 26 2/16/2007 at 12:01 (6,272 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Sandy, I did have a vintage center dial pair for over 10 years and loved them for their efficiency and simple design. I tried to replace them with the larger capacity center dial models through a used appliance guy who said my beloved and easy to use dryer was unfixable. But the 806 washer I got from him suffered from a slow spin and I wasn't willing to deal with a guy who was selling products that weren't already checked to be in good working order. That's how I ended up buying a new Amana pair instead. Top rated at the time by CR--what a joke. So now I'm spoiled by large capacity and there's no getting my partner to go back either. I've wanted a FL for years, ever since I had my old Westy Laundromat going in a rental I used to live in. That machine is sitting waiting for a good home, but at this point I'm willing to take my chances on a modern day version by Whirlpool. Sandy, if you knew my partner you'd understand why I can't go vintage. I got enough flack just trying to use my old 40's Waring Blendor to make smoothies. No way would he go back to a center dial. And I'm water-conscious and like that FL's are efficient in that regard. Look at it this way, there's one more center dial pair out there for somebody else to snag. Enjoy yours. I had to do likewise with my first center dial dryer's lint filter but it was worth the trouble. At least I can say I've had the center dial experience and loved my machines. I'm confident the washer is still plugging away out there somewhere. As for Costco, that sounds like a great deal on the pedestals. However, my partner is anxious to have the whole flat surface on top of the machines as work space since there will no longer be a tub lid. He doesn't like the idea of pedestals raising that surface but is willing to compromise at the 10" size. Also for parties the bar often ends up on top of the laundry pair so we need to keep that surface at a workable height. Still will check Costco but am leaning towards the 3.8 cu ft model at Lowes for most capacity for my dollar. | ||
| Post# 191546 , Reply# 27 2/16/2007 at 12:12 (6,272 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
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| Post# 191676 , Reply# 29 2/16/2007 at 20:28 (6,272 days old) by ultramatic52 (Mexico City) | ||
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Samsung and Whirlpool pictures!!! Here are some pictures I took with my brother's cell phone camera. I hope you like them!!! 
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| Post# 191683 , Reply# 30 2/16/2007 at 20:44 (6,272 days old) by ultramatic52 (Mexico City) | ||
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Some more!!! Samsung 
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| Post# 191685 , Reply# 31 2/16/2007 at 20:48 (6,272 days old) by ultramatic52 (Mexico City) | ||
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Samsung More 
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| Post# 191688 , Reply# 32 2/16/2007 at 20:50 (6,272 days old) by ultramatic52 (Mexico City) | ||
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Sam Tub is huge!!! 
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| Post# 191690 , Reply# 33 2/16/2007 at 20:55 (6,272 days old) by ultramatic52 (Mexico City) | ||
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Samsung's tumblers As you can see, this tumblers have 2 sizes, from de middle to the end of the tub are thicker than from the middle to the front. In my opinion this helps increasing the washers capacity and prevents clothes from floating when your are doing a little load. 
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| Post# 191692 , Reply# 35 2/16/2007 at 21:03 (6,272 days old) by ultramatic52 (Mexico City) | ||
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Samsung Dispensers If you compare this dispenser, you will notice it is exactly the same as the Maytag Neptune FL washer, and this could only happen, because Samsung produces the Maytag washer. 
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| Post# 191693 , Reply# 36 2/16/2007 at 21:05 (6,272 days old) by ultramatic52 (Mexico City) | ||
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Samsung's Control Panel Knob 
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| Post# 191694 , Reply# 37 2/16/2007 at 21:06 (6,272 days old) by ultramatic52 (Mexico City) | ||
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Samsung Control Panel 
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| Post# 191839 , Reply# 39 2/17/2007 at 09:47 (6,271 days old) by golittlesport (California) | ||
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Hey RP If you dont want to buy pedistals and your laundry is in the garage, you can build your own. Concrete blocks work great and are extremely stable. You can use decorate patio ones or just cinder blocks used in building. I laid down cinder blocks in our second story laundry room, laid a sheet of "wonderboard" on top, and then attached a laminated piece of wood (sold as shelving) in front for a decorative facia. 
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Post# 191862 , Reply# 40 2/17/2007 at 11:28 (6,271 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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| Post# 192389 , Reply# 41 2/20/2007 at 08:25 (6,268 days old) by irishwashguy (Salem,Oregon.............A Capital City) | ||
Miele is my Favorate hands down
Although they are a little spendy, take a new thought. What you pay for up front for a new washer, like a Miele, you will make up later in the amount of time that you will have it in operation. They are pretty tough little buggers. Considering that the Kenmore HE-4-t set is 2600 or so, they are only a little way from the Miele that I bought. The Fridigdaires have also made alot of progress in the last couple of years. They even have heating elements now. I have a few friends that have these and have brilliant results with them. I have several friends that have the Nexxt series from Bosch. My Aunt Betty loves them, so does my friend Renata. They are not really bad on price either. if you were to get an entry level set, you would be talking about perhaps 1839. and some change, w/o the sales tax( I do not have tax here, so I do not know how to calculate it) take a look at them. Some places will even let you try them before you buy them. I bet if the guy at Sears wants to sell you a machine, he will let you bring in a load of washing to take it for a spin. In SF, they have the Miele office, with the distributor next door where they have live machines that they have. Even just for fun, take a load of clothes to them, and spend some time with it. They will even provide the soap, free Persil, that is Fabulous, they are at 800-245-8215. Call them. And I have inclused a link to compare different models.Bosch was not working when I tried it. If you are ever in Portland,Standard TV and appliance has live machines on their showroom floor on 82nd Ave and in Beaverton on Hall BLVD.I love going in there. I really love my washer and dryer.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO irishwashguy's LINK | ||
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Post# 192838 , Reply# 43 2/22/2007 at 10:48 (6,266 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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I can't see paying $2600 for any washer no matter what the claims. That would by a lot of top loaders and still probably have $ left over by the time your average Miele finally did need replacement. If money was no object, that would be a different story. It was tough enough to rationalize and justify paying $750 for a full size Duet when an OK TL can be had at half the price. But I wanted the convenience of a machine that would handle a king size mattress pad without a bunch of careful arranging as is required in the large Amana TL that I have now. We have two king sized beds in our home and I'm tired of having to fold things up up and stuff them in the Amana just right so they'll be under water, and then hold the re-set knob on the fill level until it's at its highest. I know the Duet will do a much better job of getting these large items clean and I can set it and forget it. At the price I paid, it was worth it for the convenience and these machines appear to be fairly reliable. We don't do laundry every day. These machines will be low mileage and should last us a long time. With my company bonus about to be paid out, I'll be able to pay for them without even feeling it so the timing was right. Our new Duet pair gets delivered on Tuesday.
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Post# 192845 , Reply# 44 2/22/2007 at 11:53 (6,266 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Ralph, | ||
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Post# 193010 , Reply# 47 2/23/2007 at 01:32 (6,265 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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I think I read that replacing the silver bar in the Samsung might run under $100. CR gave a positive review of the silver option, saying that fabrics laundered using it stayed fresher longer. The silver probably doesn't help much with cleaning, the point is that the silver ions kill bacteria. So it's primarily for disinfection. | ||
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