Thread Number: 10471
What led to the demise of combo washer/dryers?
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Post# 191503   2/16/2007 at 09:49 (6,250 days old) by machinehead ()        

Hello everyone--
Seems like a great idea, put two machines in one. Didn't last long though-- anyone know for about how long and what led to the permanent demise of the washer/dryer in one combonation? My guess is difficulty in mechanical engineering, but somebody's gotta know more than me! Were there any typical "classic" problems associated with these machines?





Post# 191512 , Reply# 1   2/16/2007 at 10:26 (6,250 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Combo/Slowmo

As a child in the early fifties when combination washers were introduced the most likely issue was timing. If the washer was held up two plus hours for each load of laundry it was impossible to keep up with laundry in larger families. The area I was raised was agricultural with lots of sand and dirt. That made the front loader more able to rid the load of loose sand that a solid tub, top loader. Many of the big square RCA Whirlpool combos were popular and mostly in families of four or less. Kenmore helped because of the mass appeal of Sears and it's shopping venue. The exhausted drying system was vastly more popular with homeakers than a condensing system. It only makes sense that a machine working twice as much as two single units has the probability of twice as many service calls. In a word, it was my experience that speed was the factor in dimming the success of combo units.
Kelly


Post# 191517 , Reply# 2   2/16/2007 at 10:50 (6,250 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        

danemodsandy's profile picture
...Plus, if one machine of a pair breaks down beyond repair, you only have to replace that machine, not your whole laundry system.

Post# 191526 , Reply# 3   2/16/2007 at 11:16 (6,250 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        
.... the permanent demise of the washer/dryer combonation?

revvinkevin's profile picture
I assume you mean the US BUILT washer/dryer combo? They are still alive and well in the European market. Last weekend I was touring some new lofts/condos and they had a new LG washer/dryer (non-vented) combo unit.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO revvinkevin's LINK


Post# 191560 , Reply# 4   2/16/2007 at 13:33 (6,250 days old) by mustangman ()        
LG Combos

I'm sure they are expensive. The LG web site does not list a price for the model with 7 washing settings. I did not check the other model.

Post# 191582 , Reply# 5   2/16/2007 at 14:51 (6,250 days old) by mixfinder ()        
LG Combo

The LG combo sells at Lowes for 1,499.00 It weighs a little over 200 pounds. It is large capacity for a washer but small capacity for drying. It also takes 3 - 4 hours to complete a load with the condensing system.
Kelly


Post# 191585 , Reply# 6   2/16/2007 at 15:13 (6,250 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
lots of reasons

panthera's profile picture
There are lots of reasons why they failed to catch on in the 'States. First, as Kelly mentioned, the time problem.
To dry clothes efficiently, you need a big drum. But if you make the drum big enough to dry the load you are washing in it, there are two serious problems. One, the person loading the drum is going to overload it unless you have some sort of weight limiting system. Very complex and hard to do - especially before binary logic went solid state.
Second, the forces working upon the drum increase exponentially as the drum's circumference expands. This has as a consequence that a machine of normal size spinning at X rpm when expanded to tumble those clothes effectively, was now putting a load on the drum that was four or eight or more times greater to achieve the same extraction. No way to do that at reasonable cost.
So the machines usually only dried half the load they washed, this meant not double the time to wash and dry two loads of clothes but four times...
Finally, the forced air drying systems used in European combo's today are fairly new. Up until the early 1980's, infrared drying was used. The condensor systems were very primitive and extremely trouble prone.
A good idea, just not practicable at reasonable expense.


Post# 191589 , Reply# 7   2/16/2007 at 15:43 (6,250 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
One must remember historically housewives in the United States had access to space, relatively cheap electric or gas rates, which meant laundry could be either dried on lines or in a dryer. This was especially true after the war with the big push to the surburbs. Tying up one machine for hours only prolonged the huge task of all that laundry in an era when there was little "dry clean only" and man made fibers.

For all the reasons mentioned above, combo units seem like a good idea in theory, but in reality washing and drying require different drum volumes to be effective. In the two or so hours it took to so a load in most combos then, a woman could have several loads washed and on the line, or dried and folded/put away; there simply is no contest. Mind you combo units probably had a place then as now as a niche market, but probably wouldn't sell no where near the units needed to keep a production line profitable.

L.


Post# 191604 , Reply# 8   2/16/2007 at 16:15 (6,250 days old) by maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
Plus......

the required engineering...beyond drum capacity...

You have two essentially incompatible events going on in the same unit... The American combinations were hideously complex machines, and a servicing (restoration) challenge unto nightmare.

Because of the physics, and Bendix's stranglehold on the suspension patents, top spin speeds in the wash phase were not high at all..one unit spun at about 300 rpm..which is comparatively slow, also lengthening drying times.

It's a great idea in theory, but trouble prone in practise.


Lawrence/Maytagbear


Post# 191620 , Reply# 9   2/16/2007 at 17:30 (6,250 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
The Bendix Duomatic, introduced in 1953 was far and away the best combination unit of it's day. It had a 27" drum that gave excellent washing results - clothes rode the drum to the top and dropped, smashing into the water over and over that did give good results rather quickly. For drying, they used one of the best condenser systems although it would be considered wildly wasteful today. The large drum allowed for plenty of tumbling room and the user was instructed on how to load the drum at the beginning of the wash-dry cycles which was simple and easy to understand. The machine spins at 505 RPM (remember the 27" drum) and gave pretty decent results, about average in most ratings for it's time. Bendix did have a lock on the patents for almost every piece of that machine, including the suspension system for the drum, condensing system, cycle sequences and most importantly, the idea of the "Combination Washer-Dryer" itself so that every other manufacturer had to pay royalties to Bendix to even make a combo. Most other brands paled in comparison - washing the clothes in a drum wasn't difficult but if you couldn't spin them properly, rinsing and the rest of the process suffered greatly. The Westinghouse combination spun at only 180 rpm, the clothes are so wet at the end of the cycle, you can wring water out of them with your hands!

As L said, space and utilities were inexpensive and plentiful so the combo didn't become the runaway hit that appliance makers thought it would but there were a few still being made into the early 70's - Whirlpool(under the Kenmore name) and GE were the last holdouts but completely gone by 1975 or so.


Post# 191628 , Reply# 10   2/16/2007 at 17:59 (6,250 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        
Peteski can tell you all about LG's Combo!

What a nightmare he has had with getting his machine serviced!
Which reminds me, I wonder how Jeff Lefever is doing with his?

IMO the Bendix Combo was always the best. The 1953 was the classic style I remember the most. And the sounds they made are etched in my mind forever. That 1st spin speed is VERY "Outer-Limits"!

When I am at Gansky's the first machine I go to is always that beautiful Bendix.


Post# 191651 , Reply# 11   2/16/2007 at 19:19 (6,250 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
LG

peteski50's profile picture
Yes Steve is correct - I for warn everyone Beware of LG service. Much will be said in my posting under LG Service Nightmare. It is to bad they do not make a combo in America any longer! OH Bendix where you? I would strongly recommend to anyone that makes a purchase, especially from a foreign company to check to make sure service is reliable or at least somewhat reliable first. Buying a LG is like playing Russian roulette. If it works it's great but if you need service your screwed!
Peter


Post# 191738 , Reply# 12   2/16/2007 at 22:48 (6,250 days old) by machinehead ()        

Thanks to everyone for the wonderful info-- that's why i LOVE this place! You guys are awesome; i had no idea that other than the mechanical-engineering servicing nightmare that simple time would do them in, in the US anyway. Still made in Europe though? Kewl!! They work any better than the old ones, i hope?

Post# 191787 , Reply# 13   2/17/2007 at 00:12 (6,249 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
European combos

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They work. Since space here is often at a premium, people will accept the 1/2 load drying capacity. But most folks only use it in emergencies.
The much faster spin speeds, enormously higher build quality, and less wasteful condensation systems help, too.
But they are still horribly time consuming.
Bendix' patent lock down ultimately delayed the US FL market's acceptance for 40 years...
I am still puzzled by the lack of seperate high speed spinners in the US. I can cut my drying time (and the detergent residue)very much by spinning at 2,800rpm for just five minutes. Seems like a clear cut winner, but the resistance to the idea is very high. "Wrinkling/Tearing" being two common mis-conceptions I hear from friends and relations in the 'States.


Post# 191790 , Reply# 14   2/17/2007 at 00:14 (6,249 days old) by exploder3211 ()        

Who's spin-x blew up on here???

Post# 191800 , Reply# 15   2/17/2007 at 00:34 (6,249 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
'Sploder:

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I think that was Pulsator's Spin-X that bit the dust...

Has anyone here ever seen one of the present-day Thor combos? They make one that has a condensor dryer. 120v, too. I've often wished that peteski50 had one of those instead of that *CENSORED* LG. I'm not talking about vintage Thors like the Automagic; the company is still around (or revived) and making machines today.


Post# 191806 , Reply# 16   2/17/2007 at 00:59 (6,249 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Thor combos

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Hi Sandy,
I hear their are problems with the Thor also. It's a matter of getting decent service also. Although when I had my Equator their was once a problem and I got the service ASAP. I am so sorry they I gave up that machine. Also Equator doesn't make those types anymore that were from Italy. Now they are making the Quietline machines from China. Even though I like the combo principal I won't get another. I like to hang a lot of my clothes I wear and I dry mostly my linens like sheets and towels. That is why a combo works well for me. If I have to replace the LG I will probably buy a Frigidaire front loader and live without a dryer. It's not worth the hassel. Like I said I wish they would make a combo in the USA.
Peter


Post# 191809 , Reply# 17   2/17/2007 at 01:38 (6,249 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Another thing about the combos and the time that they were introduced was the make up of the regular family wash load. In the early 50s, December, 1952, to be exact, when the Duomatic apppeared on the scene after years of designing and testing, the washable fabrics were largely cottons and linens. Many of these garments held a lot of water and needed ironing whether they were line dried or not. Caring for the family laundry meant that a washer, whether an automatic or some other type, was almost a necessity but a dryer was not. Many, if not most homes built in the parts of the country where winter weather was worst had basements where clothes could be put on lines to dry, near the furnace, when they could not go outside, although I remember my mother putting on a coat and either a scarf or hat to hang laundry on the outside lines. In our new 1955 neighborhood, the first items to go up in back yards, along with fences, were the clotheslines posts. I remember my father's installation was far superior to one neighbor's. But the permanent press fabrics that made dryer-drying an important part of the process were not yet here. Many wives and mothers did not work outside of the home so they were not so pressed for time to line dry laundry. It was interesting to watch over a period of about 10 years as families grew and incomes increased, women who had said that they did not want or need a dryer started getting them and using them. In some houses with limited room for the washer upstairs and no basement, having a dryer meant buying a combo. The morning chats while hanging out the loads to dry and then the afternoon conversations as the clothes were taken in disappeared. The other thing that disappeared was the frantic rush to grab the clothes in off the lines if a storm came up. If one neighbor was missing from this frantic fandango, children were sent next door to spread the alarm.

The combos fought a standing tradition that developed before wringer washers and it was that the laundry was all done on one day of the week. It made sense when you had to draw water or pump the water, then heat it and set up rinse tubs. With the combos, you could wash and dry every day without having to be so involved with every step so that a load could be started and pretty much left alone for one and a half to two hours. The very efficient 36 inch wide Duomatics could dry a load in 45 minutes on average, although areas of the country with warmer ground water found that time increased when using the electric condenser models. As with any washing operation that involves using a dryer, it was most efficient to start by laundering lighter weight loads first so that when the sheets and shirts or similar weight items were through washing, they could go into a separate dryer and be done by the time the second load was ready to come out of the washer. In the combos, starting with lighter weight fabric loads enabled the operator to get more loads done faster and possibly find it more convenient to be there when a load finished that either needed immediate folding or putting on hangers to look best. Later loads could be heavier things like towels that would tie up the machine for longer periods of time in the afternoon when school children, shopping and meal preparation were the primary time consuming activities.


Post# 191811 , Reply# 18   2/17/2007 at 01:45 (6,249 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Peteski50

danemodsandy's profile picture
Peter:

Well, I am sorry to hear that about Thor, because it looks like a great idea.

It's too bad that companies can't seem to put a priority on service, because nothing will lose customers for a company faster than bad service (witness the demise of Maytag as an independent company). Conversely, nothing can put a company over like superior service. Think about it- Thor makes a 120v condensor combo that can be made portable with castors and a sink hook-up, and has no tell-tale steamy dryer exhaust to alert a landlord or super. What could be more perfect for New York City, with its millions of prospective customers? If superior service went along with such a product, Thor could almost own the NYC market.


Post# 191816 , Reply# 19   2/17/2007 at 03:27 (6,249 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Should point out that "Thor" does not make anything. Rather the brand name was purchased and is slapped on a rebadged European or Asian made unit. Last time one checked, the company that was importing "Quietline" front loaders and combo units was bringing in the Thor units as well to the United States. IIRC, the units were made by one of the Merloni companies, not sure which though.

L.


Post# 191827 , Reply# 20   2/17/2007 at 06:29 (6,249 days old) by easyspindry (Winston-Salem, NC)        

Bendix cornered the market on combos -- and look what happened to them. Those Duomatics were wonderful machines. But the practicality of tying up the washer and the dryer for 2 hours or more for only one load made doing laundry an all-day job.

And, if mechanical trouble occurred whether it be a washer problem or a dryer problem, the launderer was without both machines until the problem was fixed.

Also, the spin speeds being so slow on all but the Bendix because of the suspension systems made drying take a long time.

Combos are still around. I have one in my camper. It's a Splendide, an Italian made machine. It spins at 1200 rpm, so the clothes are practically dry when the wash cycle is finished. But the capacity of this machine is very small -- after all, it IS in a camper. But it works!!! And it runs on 120v.

Depending on the fabric of the clothes, I find it best to open the machine at the end of the final spin so I can peel the clothes off the side of the tub and shake them out before the drying cycle starts. Otherwise, one might end with a "brick" of dried fabric still clinging to the side of the tub.

I sure wish Bendix was still around -- for more reasons than one.

Jerry Gay


Post# 192306 , Reply# 21   2/19/2007 at 17:43 (6,247 days old) by lonestar1947 (Dearborn,mi)        

Electricity wasn't that cheap in the 50's, my father was an electrical engineer! My mother (who had a 1956 Bendix Duo) said the dryer used too much electricity, they bought a dryer and kept the Duo for washing only..., it lasted 30 years!

Post# 192326 , Reply# 22   2/19/2007 at 21:10 (6,247 days old) by hydralique (Los Angeles)        
Condensor Drying . . .

Most of those old combo units seem to have condensor drying. I wonder if this could have been a contributory factor to their unpopularity, as if I am right (and I may not be), condensor drying wastes a lot of water and takes longer than conventional hot air drying . . . air is free, but water is not.

Post# 192364 , Reply# 23   2/20/2007 at 00:52 (6,246 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        
Modern Eurpoean Condesors dont use water

Hi,

Modern condenser dryers dont use water.

There are two seperate air flows, one circulates air through the heater, the drum, the filter, a heat exchanger/condensor and then back into the element. A pump drains the water out of the heat exchanger/condensor.

The second air flow circuit, pulls in room temperature air (The cooler the better) through the heat exchanger/condensor, and then back into the room. The two air paths are seperate.

So you end up with Hot dry air in the room, water in a container or pumped down the drain, and clothes that have the water steamed out of them.

This works well in countries that line dry, as in winter when its too wet/damp/cold, I can heat my garage from the dryer.

In summer when it's hot and sunny, I just hang it all out on the line.


Post# 192394 , Reply# 24   2/20/2007 at 08:59 (6,246 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        

laundromat's profile picture
LG makes two different models.One is a 24" wide unit that does a 14 pound dry load and the other is a 27" model that does a 22 pound load.both run on 110 volts and have the condenser dry feature the 24 ' model is listed at $1499/whiteor $1599/stainless.The 27" model is listed @ $1699 and comes only in white.The average cycle takes 135 minutes from start to finish.But remember this,not all of us are at the washer when it finishes in fact the average person doesn't take the wash out for 3 hours or more after the cycle is over to put the load in the dryer.By that time,the combos are completely done.------hello.

Post# 192409 , Reply# 25   2/20/2007 at 10:49 (6,246 days old) by hydralique (Los Angeles)        
Thanks, Brisnat81 . . .

That information about modern condensor dryers is interesting. It would help explain their unsuitability for many people, though. The most important market for combos has always been those who only have room for one machine, and in many cases this means an apartment with the washer hookup in the kitchen and no yard for line drying. In such a situation, drying in the summer could significantly heat up the kitchen and either make the apartment uncomfortably hot or force the a/c to run longer to keep everything cool.

Did the old combos (such as the Bendix) use this system of hot air exchange as well, or did they just use more water?


Post# 192425 , Reply# 26   2/20/2007 at 12:32 (6,246 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        
Water Cooled

Up until the early 80's most condensor dryers and combo's were water cooled.

These days most are air cooled, and the remaining water cooled ones use about 8-10L for a dry cycle.


Post# 192632 , Reply# 27   2/21/2007 at 09:22 (6,245 days old) by cvillewasherbo ()        
GE Combos

We had a GE Combo from 1956 until 1965. My dad says that it had vent drying, but I'm not sure because when we first had it, it was in the kitchen and due to the layout of the kitchen I'm not sure that it was vented. Anyone know about the GE Combos? I thought it was very neat because I was about 3 years old and loved to sit in front of it watching everything while I played with pots and pan, my toy mixer, and my toy washing machine.

Now my mom says that it took 2 hours to do a load of laundry, which meant that Monday laundry day was all day long. However, she was glad to have it instead of a wringer in the very cold garage when sometimes the water pipes out there would freeze, and there was 2 feet of snow outside where the clothes line was.

Courtney


Post# 192702 , Reply# 28   2/21/2007 at 16:40 (6,245 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Courtney

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All GE combos were ventless and used water condesing to dry the load. And yes they do take 2 hours, the Bendix is much faster at 45 miuntes as Tom quoted earlier.

The GE's broil your clothes under a 2 element broiler whereas the Bendix used 180 degree hot circulated air. Much easier on your clothes, but the square window in the GE is too cool!




Post# 193166 , Reply# 29   2/24/2007 at 00:21 (6,242 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

The cycle sequence Bendix patented for their tumble washers and combos was what kept Westinghouse from having a spin between the 2nd and 3rd rinse. Bendix had a spray rinse called "assured rinse" after the wash drain, then a spin, a deep rinse, spin, second deep rinse and final spin. It was not until Electrolux modified the last Westinghouse design that the machine could give optimal rinsing. They came up with a sequence that gave a spray rinse after the wash drain, then went into the first deep rinse, drained, spun, gave a second deep rinse, another spin and then the third deep rinse and the final spin. Sadly, by then they were not using enough water to be seen, but if you adjusted the right screw on the pressure switch to give the same water levels as the old straight front machines, you had a winning ticket. Washing was done on the lowest water level and rinsing on the highest where the water comes up over the light lens. Forget high efficiency; this is high water, almost to flood stage.

Post# 197262 , Reply# 30   3/13/2007 at 23:14 (6,225 days old) by tumbler ()        
Slow spin combos

The GE Combo was notorious for its extremely slow spin speed-I think it was around 220 r.p.m. or so. This accounts for its extremely long dry time. This was also true, I believe, of the Whirlpool and Maytag combos-all except the Bendix. The Duomatic represented a big improvement in Bendix' spin speed. Older machines spun out at around 310 r.p.m., but the Duomatic's was (I think) around 540.

Post# 197269 , Reply# 31   3/13/2007 at 23:37 (6,225 days old) by westytoploader ()        

Actually, the slowest was the Westinghouse at 181 RPM. I have a GE, and despite the slow speed, the water extraction isn't that bad on a full load. The fact that it stops 3 separate times to redistribute helps as well. All of the loads I wash in the GE I simply put in the dryer without spinning out, and it finishes in about an hour each time.

Seeing the posts about the GE Combos is prompting me to stop being lazy and work on mine! Just needs a pump replacement (which I already have the part) and it will be washing again!


Post# 197278 , Reply# 32   3/14/2007 at 01:09 (6,224 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        
It does get worse than Westinghouse...

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Well, the slowest spinning combo was the Westinghouse, but the O'keefe & Merritt combo didn't spin at all! Just went from rinse, right into dry. A 120,000 BTU gas burner supplied the extra heat needed to overcome the excess moisture. Imagine the horror inside that machine. The Easy combo spun at 250 RPM and like many others, pre-heated the clothes and drum while spinning to get a jump on the drying time. Easy was also the only combo to have a tilted drum.

Whirlpool was the only combo maker to completely re-design their combo from the ground up in the early 60's. They acheived a much better spin performance - about that of their toploading washers - and by all accounts were about the best performing of the later combos with a decent spin speed and good drying results. Philco scrapped the original Bendix 36" cabinet and 27" drum design for a smaller footprint (27") in 1959 but this made the drum quite small and the washing & drying performance wasn't as good as the earlier Bendix models. Consumer Reports tested the Bendix Duomatic in 1954-55 and called it "an impressive achievement" which, coming from CR, was particularly exciting.


Post# 197320 , Reply# 33   3/14/2007 at 07:06 (6,224 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
~I can cut my drying time (and the detergent residue)very much by spinning at 2,800rpm for just five minutes.

~Who's spin-x blew up on here???
ME ME ME ME ME~

Let's not forget that the larger the tub's diameter, the less RPM are needed to achieve a targerted G-force.
Therefore (just as an example) 2,800 rpm in a 12-inch wide tub(30cm) may be the same as 1,400 rpm in a 24 inch (60cm) wide tub.

Would anyone know exaclty what the formula is for G-force determination?


Post# 197324 , Reply# 34   3/14/2007 at 07:31 (6,224 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)        

jamiel's profile picture
Didn't the Westinghouse also have a tilted drum? Has anyone ever seen one of the O'Keefe and Merritt models...I can't imagine how stiff those clothes might have been in a hard water area.

So to recap, the originals were:

Bendix first to market(2 versions--earlier wide, later narrow)
Westinghouse (tilted tub)
Easy narrow cabinet--apparently bankrupted Hupp)
Maytag (short time on market, bought back from owners)
GE (lasted until 1970 or so)
Whirlpool/Kenmore (Kenmore lasted until 1970 or so)

Norge??? (I think there was one mentioned in Consumer Reports)
O'Keefe and Merritt

am I missing any?


Post# 197335 , Reply# 35   3/14/2007 at 08:06 (6,224 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

GE did even more to preheat the clothes before drying. When HOT wash water was selected, the rinse temperature sequence was: cold for the first rinse, warm for the second rinse, then hot for the third rinse.

The first 29 inch wide Kenmore and WP combos had a top spin speed of 500 rpm. They also had no dryer lint filter, just a separator system with a damper that recirculated most of the heated air during the heating of the wash water and the unheated air during the rinsing and exhausted most of it during drying, recirculating only the amount needed to separate the lint. In theory, the initial one minute purge before the machine began to fill would wash the lint from the last drying period out of the machine. The tranny was set up so that the pump and blower would operate at the same time allowing hot air to circulate through the drum during wash to boost the water temperature. It also permitted the heater to run during the final spin except for Wash 'n Wear and Delicates to preheat the clothes and enhance the water extraction. The spin was divided into two parts without the preliminary intermittent spins of later machines. What the original machine did after the partial drain from the 3rd rinse was ramp up to the high spin speed as soon as the balancing system allowed . Then, after 4 or 5 minutes of spin, it slowed to a tumble and did this little spurting of water called the "Peel Off Rinse." This was done by recirculating water that was retained in the machine to make the balancing mechanism work. This little spurting of water from the filter stream opening was done to loosen the clothes from the drum so that they would tumble, but not make them as wet as when the first spin started. After the load had time to tumble a bit, the machine went into another high speed spin with the heat on. Then it came out of spin, drained the balance tanks and reservoir, paused a minute and then started drying. Because the clothes had been redistributed between spins, they fell away from the drum and tumbled with no problem.

The trouble with this system was the clogging of the water system in the machine when either too much dryer lint accumulated for the purge to wash out of the machine or too much lint got in the water during the washing and rinsing of a very linty load. Add to this the little bits of hard matter that landed in the filter and trapped lint so that it would not flush out and you begin to see how vulnerable the system was. The lint filter was a little star-shaped thing like a kitchen sink strainer in the bottom of the sump. It was accessed from a locking, hinged panel in the drum. If the machine was full of wet laundry when a clog was noticed, the wet stuff had to be removed, then the panel opened and the lint strainer cleaned. Before putting the load back in, you had to run the machine for a minute or so to get the rest of the lint out of the system and clean the strainer again. If this was during a hot wash, insulated rubber gloves were needed and many owners were upset. So all of those machines were retrofitted to have a dryer lint screen. In the retrofitting, the damper that either was mostly open for dry or mostly closed during the wash, rinse, spin part of the cycle was eliminated. The transmission was changed so that it either pumped or ran the blower so the water heating and spin preheat were eliminated and the top spin speed was reduced to to 400 rpm. The two high speed spins were retained for a while, but were later modified so that the first spin period had the intermittent low speed spin and tumble periods followed by the 4 minute high speed spin. Subsequent machines had the wash filter moved to the front of the machine behind the lower panel. It was only because of the money that Sears brought into Whirlpool that the redesign from the BIG 33 inch wide machine to the 29 inch wide combo was financially possible. They both took a hit on the retrofitting, but survived.


Post# 197343 , Reply# 36   3/14/2007 at 08:29 (6,224 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Wow, that's interesting on the early 29" WP Combos, I had never heard that about the lint filtering system...

Jamiel, the Westinghouse combo never had a tilted drum. Their standard clothes washers had the tub on angle at about 28 degrees until about 1959.


Post# 197353 , Reply# 37   3/14/2007 at 09:02 (6,224 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Jamiel, you forgot the Hotpoint combo. The Maytag was not forcibly removed from owners like the Hotpoint. Maytag combo owners were offered a TOL pair in exchange when Maytag sort of threw in the towel on combos.

Can you imagine how fast a dryer the O'Keefe & Merritt (also sold under the wringer washer brand names of One Minute and Automatic) would be with items spun in a regular washer? It had a higher BTU rating than my present condensing gas furnace.


Post# 197364 , Reply# 38   3/14/2007 at 09:42 (6,224 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
With many apologies to Peter...

bajaespuma's profile picture
I used an LG combo that was installed in a hotel suite in Vancouver and ( with small vacation-sized loads) it was amazing!!! Spun as fast as my LG washer at home and dried in a trice. If I lived in a small apartment, I would consider buying one.

However, when you think about it, almost anyone not in a major urban center with the means to provide the utilities for a combo could muster up a little extra space for a dryer. Why go to the extra expense and uncertainty when that was possible? I don't think it's a mistake that the only combos made now are made in Asia: urban living spaces there are notoriously tiny. Let's see what the Chinese start producing for their booming metropoliiiii when they get going.


Post# 197366 , Reply# 39   3/14/2007 at 09:49 (6,224 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Lint Removal

chestermikeuk's profile picture
One of the Hotpoint UK engineers I worked with would always carry with him 3 large Bath size towels and would do a maintenance clean on the Washer Dryers with them.......He reckoned that with a rinse and fast spin, the amount of water that was being spun at 800 / 1000 out of the towels proved enough force to spray wash the outer tub clear of any lint, they also advised customers to do the same periodically...

A hoover guy used to select a last rinse, and when the tub was full of water, re-select a spin, ONLY for a few seconds, he reckoned it was enough force for all the water to do the same trick, throwing a tub full of water everywhere....(this was only to be done on the condensor machines) otherwise it would shoot out of the vent!!!

Mike


Post# 197374 , Reply# 40   3/14/2007 at 10:09 (6,224 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Baja, the Chinese already make a combo. It is imported into this country and is pretty pathetic.

The LG combo you used, was it the little one or the big one? What type of fabrics were you drying, synthetics that don't hold much moisture?
Thanks,
Tom


Post# 197592 , Reply# 41   3/15/2007 at 07:28 (6,223 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)        

jamiel's profile picture
Has anyone ever seen any evidence (other than the odd detergent-company sweepstakes ad) of the Caloric/One Minute/O'Keefe combo? Any advertisement, owners manual, ...???

Post# 197600 , Reply# 42   3/15/2007 at 08:47 (6,223 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
We shouldn't forget the Speed Queen combo either - a short run and much of the same design elements as the Hotpoint combo. A couple of these have survived unlike the Norge and Hotpoint machines.

Post# 197604 , Reply# 43   3/15/2007 at 08:59 (6,223 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
Tom,

bajaespuma's profile picture
What is it, a Haier?

I was using the small one; it fit handily inside a closet next to the kitchenette in my wonderful little Hotel on Davies suite. I was washing cottons, not many either, but enough to recognize the same actions as my LG washer at home and realize with the same high speed spin drying wouldn't take long. If I owned one, I would do what I already do now which is to remove many articles that I line dry and leave a smaller load for the dryer. That's one of the things I've loved best about switching to the high spin FL, things are so dry by the end of the wash cycle that many things air dry quickly.
I'll see if I have a snapshot of the unit from my vacation pics.


Post# 197613 , Reply# 44   3/15/2007 at 10:28 (6,223 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Baja, I think the name was Quiet Line or something like that. I do not know if the Haier is the same machine.

I have found the baby LG combos for as little as $1099 + shipping on some Ebay sites.

I am investigating buying the Breeze model by Supra. It is a 230 volt model and the guys that sell them give reasons why this particular model is the best of the Supra combos.


Post# 197834 , Reply# 45   3/16/2007 at 14:53 (6,222 days old) by rocketeer500 ()        
Washer/Dryer combo in San Diego

I started looking on Craigslist.com for a combo washer after reading this thread. If anyone's interested, there's one that, with a little work, may be a good machine.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO rocketeer500's LINK on San Diego Craigslist


Post# 198911 , Reply# 46   3/21/2007 at 22:53 (6,217 days old) by bobbins (Victoria, BC, Canada)        

Wow, I find this discussion thread fascinating! My mom and dad first washing machine was a 1956 Bendix Duomatic. I believe they kept it for 6 years and replaced it with a Kenmore set in 1962. My mom recalls the combo unit was always breaking down. The clothes were not spun out. Getting parts took a long time (small town in the 50’s) and the tub smelled musty. She really did not like it. My dad said the machine weighed a lot, took four tough strong men to get it out of the house. I wished they kept it…just shy before I was born

Bob


Post# 198942 , Reply# 47   3/22/2007 at 05:23 (6,216 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        

laundromat's profile picture
LG makes two combos.One is 24"wide and does a 14 pound dry load(7pounds to take out before drying)of laundry.The other is a 27"wide model and does a 22 pound dry laod(10 pounds to take out before drying.)Both run on 120 volts and have ventless drying(condensor)They retail for $1499 and$1799.As long as you do smaller loads and don't cram them,they work great and take about 2.5 hours/cycle.The 24"model spins 1400 rpms.The 27"model spins 1200 rpms.


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