Thread Number: 10814
EU ratings
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Post# 196670   3/11/2007 at 18:44 (4,396 days old) by liberator1509 (Ireland)        

Hi all

I'm trying to find out more about EU washer ratings, which as I'm sure many of you are aware, aren't quite as cut and dried as they might seem.

So they rate a machine on its performance with a 60C cotton cycle, with three catageories. My question is, just what are they measuring when they rate 'wash efficiency' - is it:

a) How clean the laundry is
b) How much effort it took to achieve the cleaning
c) How much water the machine required to achieve the cleaning

I ask because Whirlpool and Maytag Top loaders achieve the bottom score G rating - does this mean the clothes aren't clean? If so I'd beg to differ from my experience of the Whirlpool machine. it is worth noting that the Maytag achieves an A for energy, but the Whirlpool doesn't - rating G. The Maytag has also climbed from D to C with a 1000rpm spin.

Of course, the test programme on an EU market front loader might rate AAA or even AAA* - its doesn't mean the machine is any good. I've pressed a load of shirts (only worn for work - nothing too mucky) from a 40C 'Aqua Plus' cycle in the Bosch FL, and they've all gone back for another wash...not clean by my nose. I don't ever remember this with top loader washing....

Do we have a rating for time efficiency - if so the Bosch might get a C or D - better than my mum's Hotpoint WMA Front Loader, which is the slowest machine I have ever encountered....


Post# 196780 , Reply# 1   3/12/2007 at 05:07 (4,396 days old) by 2drumsallergy ()        

Hi Liberator1509,
I have a Whirlpool 3LSC8255EQ1 8.2KG DD Top Loader, and I can tell you it always produces spotless wash results for me. However I always prewash articles with protein stains in cold water as a first wash with scalding hot water can set protein based stains (Think of egg white dropped into hot water, it sets or cooks if you like). Perhaps this may explain the poor G test rating. The 60ºC Cottons cycle used in the test is the standard cycle without a prewash, the equivalent on the Whirlpool Top Loader would be a 10 minute regular cycle in hot water.

David


Post# 196821 , Reply# 2   3/12/2007 at 10:02 (4,396 days old) by rolls_rapide (0)        
Liberator1509

Do you mean the smell of sweat from under the arms of shirts?

Which detergent are you using?

I've found that liquid detergent is next to useless at removing body odour from clothes. "Colour" powders and low temperatures below 50 degrees C aren't much good either.

I think the oxygen bleach in certain powders is beneficial at removing/sanitising the laundry.

I don't remember a problem with standard Ariel, Persil, etc. I think its because of all these modern formulations, and low temps.

The Ariel advert at advocates washing at 30 degrees -Hah! they don't know what they're blabbering about!

Failure to wash at 60 degrees Celsius can actually cause premature failure of the drum-support in frontloaders.


Post# 196822 , Reply# 3   3/12/2007 at 10:06 (4,396 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Wash efficience measures the cleaning ability of a machine according to a procudure that is exactly laid down in rules for testing washers. I noticed that in the Maytag specifications the rating for energy efficiency is A and the washing efficiency is G. IMHO that should be the other way around. Until now most American toploaders got a G for energy efficiency and I don't think the Atlantis will be different. I'm not sure though that they are really tested, the toploaders with no heater built in to them wouldn't exactly meet the test criteria I think but I'm not sure about that.

Louis


Post# 196892 , Reply# 4   3/12/2007 at 15:34 (4,395 days old) by liberator1509 (Ireland)        
Rolls rapide - detergents

Hi Rolls (if that is your real name lol - it's like a Bond film round here).

I change detergent depending on mood, though suffer OCD in seperating whites, dark colours, light colours etc - so here's the standard:

Persil Non-Bio powder (sometimes with Vanish White Bleach powder) at 60C - works well! Same at 40C is not so good - that's when the loads goes back for another cycle. Worse news still is that the 'better' brands underwear (that's the CKs, ralph lauren etc) are supposed to be washed at 30C - not that they need heavy washing I hasten to add - just seems a bit excessive to wash white pants in a load on their own just so shirts can go in at higher temperature...

For colours I use Persil Colour Liquid at 30C or 40C - I like colour clothing not to go white round the edges, but again the results in the Bosch ain't good. Perhaps Dreft might be better - I'll report back. Any suggestions for good colour washing without bleaching would be appreciated, I have a rather nice selection of dark colour shirts for work that I don't to fade or worse still end up with bleach hot spots....

Marginally better results occur with 'Wash Plus' selected, but the time factor shoots up to the two hour plus mark. All in all, although the Bosch seems well screwed together (it is only six months old so we'll see), it's performance doesn't really impress....



Post# 196897 , Reply# 5   3/12/2007 at 15:44 (4,395 days old) by liberator1509 (Ireland)        
Louis - washing efficiency

Hi Louis,

I sure that the EU standard test is irrelevant when applied to a vertical axis top-loader - and the results must inevitably default to G. I'm not sure I agree with what you say about energy consumption - the average US top loader has a 1/2HP motor, which running for the average cycle time of 25-35 mins would use less than a front loader with a 2.5-3kW heater (run for say 15-20 mins) and even a smaller motor, so Kg for Kg, I'm not surprised that the Maytag gets an A for energy.

The G rated wash efficiency may refer to the litres-per-kg demands of a top loader, which are of course much greater than a front loader - about twice as much in fact.

Of course the EU calculation appears not to consider how the water is heated for the top loader - whether by electric or gas water heater - of course if you have solar water heating (or other secondary water heating - for example an AGA), the top loader makes sense even considering the increased water consumption - just install a grey-water recovery system to get over that one!!!


Post# 196936 , Reply# 6   3/12/2007 at 17:17 (4,395 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
David,

The energy efficiency includes water usage and also in case of the toploaders would include the energy that is used to heat up the wash water. Since a toploader uses much more hot water than a frontloader the G rating makes sense.


Post# 197073 , Reply# 7   3/13/2007 at 09:16 (4,395 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

mrboilwash's profile picture
I find Ariel colour powder excellent at stain removal and colour protection.
Whenever I get smelly results with my darks because of low temperatures and the lack of oxygen bleach, I give them an occasional prewasch with a regular powder followed by a colour version in the mainwash. That is a good compromise between laundry hygiene and colour protection.


Post# 197117 , Reply# 8   3/13/2007 at 14:41 (4,395 days old) by lavamat_jon (-)        

I think that the EU label should consider rinsing as a factor too, as so many washers nowadays in the sake of water efficiency don't rinse clothes that well.

I think the EU label is a bit pointless nowadays anyway, especially now that every washing machine has A for washing and energy yet the wash performance I've found can vary vastly across the board of A rated machines. E.g. in the AEG 86741 (which is in storage at the moment), I had to use the 2 hour cycle if I wanted the ultimate washing performance but the standard 1.15 hour cycle on the Miele gets most tough stains sparkling clean, unlike the Time Saver option on the AEG which took a similar amount of time.

In terms of body odour, I wash most clothes on either the shortest cottons or minimum iron cycles, or on quick wash, and use colour detergents almost exclusively and I haven't noticed a problem with removal of body odour, or any other stain for that matter.

Liberator - I wash my CK's regularly at 50*C, and have done at 95*C before and I haven't really had a problem with them :-). As with most clothing manufacturers nowadays they just put the lowest temperature and/or cycle on to cover their asses. A hoodie I bought from Topman a couple months ago recommends it to be washed on a woollens cycle, even though it is made of 100% cotton!

Jon


Post# 197118 , Reply# 9   3/13/2007 at 14:42 (4,395 days old) by lavamat_jon (-)        

BTW, I also think that both toploaders and frontloaders are entirely different methods of washing laundry, and that it is unfair to test the toploaders on tests that are really designed for frontloading washers.

Post# 197125 , Reply# 10   3/13/2007 at 15:10 (4,394 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        

I don't know what the US style TL's are rated at , if at all but I remember ordering a Hotpoint TL in 1995 from the Stearn Electrical catalogue and the rating was 'G'

Post# 197160 , Reply# 11   3/13/2007 at 18:14 (4,394 days old) by chrisbsuk (Bristol, uk)        
Hotpoint Top Loader

chrisbsuk's profile picture
You are right about it being rated as "G"
if i am not wrong in saying, Hotpoint pulled the plug on it shortly after this - G for energy, G for washing and C for spinning if i am not mistaken

i was surprised at this wash performance rating - as the machine has an internal water heater, and the clothes sit in the water whilst it it static heating, i would have thought this alone would help to remove some of the soiling, and hence get the machine a better rating, at least for wash performance!


Post# 197494 , Reply# 12   3/14/2007 at 19:06 (4,393 days old) by liberator1509 (Ireland)        
hitting the nail on the head

Hi Chris

You've hit the nail on the head, in terms of my original question - is the measure one of either a) washing efficiency or b) washing performance?

I can understand a G rating for efficiency for the Hotpoint and other Top loaders if water consumption is taken into account, but not for cleaning performance. In my experience, the Hotpoints were extremely good washers and I have had similar experience with the US heater-less Whirlpool. The rinse performance was very good too (would want to be with 69 litres per fill…) - and I'm inclined to think it was better than front loading rinse performance.

What was great with the Hotpoint was the possibility of filling with cool/cold water and having a long soak/heat up cycle (great with bio-powders) or a hot fill and a very fast wash. I’m surprised there isn’t a rating for speed – time is money after all…


Post# 199291 , Reply# 13   3/24/2007 at 10:14 (4,384 days old) by seamusuk (Dover Kent UK)        
Jon...

seamusuk's profile picture
A HOODIE!!!

OMG- Please tell me you dont have too many Chavistic tendencies!

LOL!!

Seamus


Post# 199428 , Reply# 14   3/25/2007 at 09:30 (4,383 days old) by lavamat_jon (-)        

Seamus - worry not, it was bought from Topman :-). No Chavistic tendencies there :-P.

(now if I bought it from Sportsworld or JJB, then you'd have to worry :-p)

Jon





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