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Thread Number: 11359
They Just Don't Build Appliances Like They Used To Anymore |
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Post# 203946 4/14/2007 at 18:15 (6,211 days old) by launderess  (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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While quickly reading through the current issue of CR (and I mean very quickly as there wasn't much in it), was gob-smacked to see CR recommends chucking a washing machine after eight years and dryers after seven. Apoparently after that time period the cost of repairs can equal a new machine so why bother. Is it any wonder why our landfills are so full of stuff the United States has to export rubbish? Think the United States should follow the lead of many European countries and mandate a tax on "discarded" appliances as well as recycling. Perhaps that would discourge consumers from buying "throw away" appliances, and in turn demand a return to quality built "major appliances". What is really interesting is adjusted for today's dollars "major" appliances aren't that much cheaper than some of what is being offered, especially TOL models. This throw-a-way mentality has totally ruined another segment of economy, the trusty local appliance repair person. With so much stuff not worth the bother and or cost of repair, unless under warranty repair persons cannot seem to make a living unless they happen to have a good market of older appliances that people wish to keep running. L. | ||
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Post# 203952 , Reply# 1 4/14/2007 at 18:31 (6,211 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 203955 , Reply# 2 4/14/2007 at 18:51 (6,211 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) |
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Laundress you are so right about Consumer Reports, it takes me only five to seven minutes to read it nowadays. Used to be I could take it to bed with me to fall asleep with but those days are gone. Oh and I think it is appauling they tell you to throw out a major appliance after only 7-8 years, and actually promote doing so.
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Post# 203958 , Reply# 3 4/14/2007 at 18:56 (6,211 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Post# 203961 , Reply# 4 4/14/2007 at 18:58 (6,211 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI) |
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Laundress, I agree 100% that the market should try and make machines that will actually last! All of my friend's parents ask me what machines to buy that hold a TON and will last forever. I tell them all about the wonderful machines that WILL hold a ton and last forever, then I tell them that they have to be bolted to the floor, cost $4,000 to purchase and you hav to pay $1.50 a load after you buy it! That usually convinces them to stick with their trusty Maytags!
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| Post# 203977 , Reply# 5 4/14/2007 at 19:34 (6,211 days old) by laundryshark (Cedar Rapids, Iowa) | ||
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They Don't Make 'Em Like They Use To! You got that right! I also totally agree that, when it comes to environmental concerns, we should put our money where our mouths are and improve the quality of all major appliances so as to not make them so disposable.--Laundry Shark | ||
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Post# 203983 , Reply# 6 4/14/2007 at 20:03 (6,211 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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No one has to "try" and build machines of top quality, the knowledge is out there and has been for ages. This is shown by the many "vintage" appliances that are out there, many happily chugging along giving good service with little or no repairs. Problem is manufacturers have long turned major appliances into a mass consumer good instead of a durable one. Despite being in the called "durable" most of these appliances are anything but. However the blame is not totally that of appliance makers. Consumers just do not seem to be interested in long lived quality appliances enough to pay. If one took at MOL or TOL major appliance from say the 1950's onto perhaps late 1970's and adjusted the price for inflation, it would come to about a thousand or so dollars. This is the exact price point of many commercial and uber TOL appliances such as Miele, which is about the only place one finds any sort of quality in terms of performace and durability. General Motors, and many other appliance makers from the "golden days" saw what was coming down the pike when they sold off their appliance divisions. Really was a pity some priviate investor with a love of producing quaility appliances couldn't bid/persuade Maytag's shareholders to give him the company. It would have taken lots of capital and perhaps shedding of non-core lines, but a private appliance maker that concentrated on building one or two lines (such as Maytag for laundry), maybe could find a market if conditions were right. Would have to be a small company but think once a repuation was built, people who wanted more substance than flash would graviate towards such a company. Certianly if a Maytag run along those lines could woe back the many customers who remember Maytag from it's heyday, it could make money. L. | ||
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Post# 203997 , Reply# 9 4/14/2007 at 21:03 (6,211 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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This follows the same rant I've been on for about 24 hours now... I did a vacant house-cleaning yesterday in a house that is about 18 months old. It's a fantastic looking home with large spacious rooms, great views overlooking a lush golf course and more cupboards than any person could ask for. During the course of cleaning this "starter castle" I kept thinking "well, there's another feature I don't like about new homes..." and by the end of the job, realized that I was almost disgusted by much of the quality of not only the craftsmanship (if one can even call it that) but even more sickened by the quality of materials used to build the house. The "wood" floors were thin layers of veneer over composite goo, the cabinets were OK on the outside but made of more composite junk and fluff with glued-on trims. The siding, decking and trims outside were more composite/particleboard junk that is foil coated to look pretty at first glance. The windows were mostly wood, but had signs of condensate damage to the inside frames & finishes. Most of the trims around the baseboards were composite or plain plastic-covered plastic that looked like woodgrain. Now, don't even get me started on the Jenn-Air/Maytag appliances! I would love to bring in a team of chemists in to analyze the air quality - all those plastics and composites leaching toxins into the air. The sad part is, this home would be cosidered "upscale building" and would command roughly a half-million dollars in this new construction market. (this particular home is listed at $415K as it's a relocation corporate buy-out and typically priced under market to move fast) I think I'll keep my 55 year-old home and redo the kitchen, bathrooms, floors, etc. as needed! CLICK HERE TO GO TO gansky1's LINK | ||
| Post# 204000 , Reply# 10 4/14/2007 at 21:18 (6,211 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas) | ||
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Like I said in another thread homes these days are like Hollywood sets, just a facade with no substance at all. | ||
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Post# 204041 , Reply# 12 4/14/2007 at 23:00 (6,211 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Yeahbut
Often more times than not people aren't ponying up real cash, but paying on credit cards. Worst of all most use retail cards like PC Richards or Sears that charge VERY high interest rates. Sears charges some customers 28% annual interest on purchases. On about $500 that is something like $200 a year interest if one does not pay the thing off at once. At those rates carrying a balance for several years one has paid for and could have bought two or more of the same machine, or a TOL machine with everything on it. L. | ||
| Post# 204178 , Reply# 14 4/15/2007 at 15:05 (6,210 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago) | ||
that's funny cuz i have a Toro Super Recycler [Al deck] mower at home. My aunts' gave it to us when they moved into a different house in 1999, and it's been "mine" ever since. But the engine on it is ....aging. the lawnmower itself is perfect. so...someday, i'm going to just buy a new Briggs & Stratton engine for it, and it'll be ready to go whenever I get a yard of my own. The original lawnmower was purchased by my aunts in 1996, and besides the scuffs and scratches, it operates fine. The engine needs a rebuild...but I figure, why rebuild it when I can get a new engine, and keep my bullet proof mower, instead of toss it and get a "disposable" mower today. | ||
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Post# 204669 , Reply# 16 4/17/2007 at 02:21 (6,209 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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No, love, it's the machines, not us that have gone down hill! *LOL* Look inside and out of most major appliances and you'll find, plastic, plastic, and more plastic; held together with yet more plastic. Parts are for the most part all sourced from China or someother low cost labour Asian market, and designed to be just of enough service to get through the warranty period, if that. Design as also gone down hill, as few if anyone makes major appliances built to last, which was the origianl intent and the reason such things were labled "durable goods". Maytag started going down hill when it replaced it's famous product lines with cheaper to make, washing machines. Loyal customers who sworn up and down by Maytags, including those who came from brand loyal families were gob-smacked by how shabby some of the newer appliances were. Did Maytag learn it's lesson? Oh no! They launched the Neptune washing machine before totally working out the bugs and only made good with consumers when their feet were held to the fire. The rest is history, Maytag joined GE as yet another brand of appliances people swore off of, and make jokes about. L. | ||
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Post# 204694 , Reply# 17 4/17/2007 at 08:03 (6,209 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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There is quality out there...
I would love to have a brand new Miele washer right next to your older model Miele, Laundress, and take them apart to compare components and construction. I suspect that we'd find many similarities. Now compare both to a GE Adora on the market today and we'd probably all fall over laughing or be repulsed by the sight of it. You are so right about the easy credit dollars sloshing around out there now, almost anyone can get credit for almost any purchase. The personal savings rate is lower now than it was during the Great Depression of the 1930's and actually fell to -.5% last year. Credit card offers come everyday, you can mortgage your house beyond it's value and then, pay only the interest on the loan. Since it's so easy to live a disposable life, the manufacturers are falling in line with not necessarily what the consumer demands, but with the demands of shareholders and a totally profit-based business model. Maytag's board did this and it worked, I'll bet their parachutes weren't sewn from the curtains in the lobby! | ||
| Post# 204749 , Reply# 18 4/17/2007 at 12:14 (6,208 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago) | ||
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Neptunes
Is there a difference between the commercial laundry Neptunes and the Residential Neptunes? Because I regularly use a Neptune at my laundromat. They wash wonderfully. Management said that they've been quite reliable and don't break any more than the Dependable Care TL's they have [which is not often at all]. So is there a difference? I know of the pesky resistor, and sometimes the bearing fails.....is there REALLY any other issue with the Neptunes? I know FL machines always have bearing issues. All of them. Because, to date, they are my FAVORITE FL machine. I think they're fantastic. I want one someday. I don't mind soldering resistors once in a while. | ||
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Post# 204763 , Reply# 19 4/17/2007 at 14:51 (6,208 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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bearing problems
John, I have been in Europe since the early 1980's. Lived with, worked on and sold quite a few FLs. Certainly, after a period of 15 years or so, one can expect the bearings to start to show a bit of wear on the less expensive brands. But Miele, the Real Bauknechts AEG, etc. seldom have bearing failures. Certainly there have always been bearing failures in the classic American built FLs, but then, thanks to Bendix and their absurd patenting of everything but the water, the other manufacturers had horrid suspension problems to work with. No wonder their bearings didn't hold up that well. Not all FLs have bearing problems, but all Frigimores will have trouble if they are run too long using anything but HE detergent or do too many washes with chlorine bleach. I was told by a Sears salesman a few weeks ago that not all Neptunes were identical and some model years, respectively some repaired units very reliable. Anyone know more on that topic? My impression had always been they were all junk. Guess I was wrong. | ||
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Post# 204770 , Reply# 20 4/17/2007 at 15:53 (6,208 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Maytag Commercial Neptune
Machines must be better than some of their residential models, as it stands to reason since commercial laundries wouldn't put up with machines that give too many problems. Have read elsewhere that many laundromat owners report their customers love the Neptune machines. Only problems come from over sudsing since customers cannot "see" what is going on. L. | ||
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Post# 204866 , Reply# 21 4/17/2007 at 21:03 (6,208 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT) |
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I have the original Neptunes from 1997
They have been running fabulous. Only problem was a new wax motor and circuit board. It washes beautifully and seldom has issues distributing the load for proper spin. The new circuit board puts the clothing to spin without first starting the drain pump such that the water is flung against the outer tub keeping it clean, clean, clean! Mold was an issue with these machines at first. The tub light stayed on while the door was open making this machine difficult to air out. I had the power outlet wired with a switch so that I killed power to the machine so that I can leave the door open. I now have the outlet switched so that I can leave the door open freely to air dry the machine. | ||
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Post# 204868 , Reply# 22 4/17/2007 at 21:06 (6,208 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT) |
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Old/Temporary | ||
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Post# 204869 , Reply# 23 4/17/2007 at 21:09 (6,208 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT) |
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New | ||
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Post# 204870 , Reply# 24 4/17/2007 at 21:13 (6,208 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Post# 204871 , Reply# 25 4/17/2007 at 21:15 (6,208 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT) |
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Agreed | ||
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Post# 204872 , Reply# 26 4/17/2007 at 21:25 (6,208 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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| Post# 204876 , Reply# 27 4/17/2007 at 21:37 (6,208 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago) | ||
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Post# 204877 , Reply# 28 4/17/2007 at 21:41 (6,208 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Hey! at least now his washer is grounded and the wires can h | ||
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Post# 204882 , Reply# 29 4/17/2007 at 21:49 (6,208 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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From Gotham City to Mayberry. Sing it girls *Green Acres is
New York City did not allow Romex (plastic-sheathed wire) anywhere for any reason, till lately. And I think they only gave-in because the national electric code now mandates a separate groudnding coductor for BX (mteal-sheathed wire) runs of over 6 feet (circa two meters) [i.e. you can't ground using the metal wire sheathing.] Gary is in CT in a part of the state where the laws applicale to electricity appear to be much more forgiving! Methinks in Farifield county, CT (elsewhere) you may not have bathrooms switches in any room that has a tub or shower. The switches are therefore outside the room! Great fun when you are a kid and others are purging! LOL | ||
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Post# 204891 , Reply# 30 4/17/2007 at 22:07 (6,208 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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As a matter of fact I had a hard time finding an electrican to re-do my main service. Here on Long Island the main residential service is allowed to be brought in via plastic sheathed cable (romex) stapled to the house. You can get PVC plastic pipe easily as an upgrade. I went through hell finding an electrician willing to do the job to sricter NYC standards, (i.e. running the main service in through a steel threaded pipe.) The trick apparently was to find an electrican with offices on both sides of the NYC border. They know the laws here and are willing to work as hard as they usually do to meet the tougher standards there. | ||
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Post# 204900 , Reply# 31 4/17/2007 at 23:42 (6,208 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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I had a plumber in today to show me how to take care of our 1957 hydronic boiler and to add an air-bleed valve as well. He pronounced it fit as a fiddle and probably good for another 20-50 years service, knock on wood. Moms 10 yr old Carrier hi-efficiency furnace has already had 3 hi pressure exhast fans replaced along with a circuit of some sort. Previously she had 2 original 50's gas furnaces working fine but switched them out just to have one furnace and one central air unit instead of two. It's beginning to look like she'd have been better off keeping the old ones and having two a/c's installed if the thing breaks again.
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Post# 204901 , Reply# 32 4/17/2007 at 23:46 (6,208 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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NYC Electricans Are In Short Supply
For many residential jobs, from what one hears from friends. With the construction/building/remodeling boom going on, many NYC electricans can make a good days work doing those sort of jobs rather than bothering with "easy" household jobs that can take only an hour. When most are willing to do the job it runs almost a full days rates and or one only gets junior workers doing the job. Great freinds of mine have been trying to get some electrical upgrade work done, including installing a 220v outlet. So far rate quotes run $3000 or more for what is easily a mornings work if that. L. | ||
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Post# 204929 , Reply# 33 4/18/2007 at 06:48 (6,208 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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Romex vs. BX | ||
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Post# 204950 , Reply# 34 4/18/2007 at 08:22 (6,208 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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Wow! $3000 for a morning's work - I would fall over dead. The new construction market has been a little slower here in the last few months, one the largest "starter" home builders went under amid horrible scandal so that has set things back some. I haven't had much trouble finding people to do work in my kitchen remodel project, but the wiring was very simple and I did most of it myself. You can see the wire coming out of the walls for the under-cabinet lighting. I replaced all the wiring for the outlets and lights/switches that had not already been done a few years ago. I used 12 gauge wire in my project as well, a bit of overkill I guess but it matches what was already there. 
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Post# 204952 , Reply# 35 4/18/2007 at 08:30 (6,208 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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| Post# 204964 , Reply# 36 4/18/2007 at 08:55 (6,208 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
Back to the Neptune
There is no difference mechanically between commercial and domestic Neptunes. Maytag didn't, and Whirlpool certainly wouldn't, run separate production lines to produce basically the same machine. Note that Maytag put the Neptune into the commercial market. Note also that Maytag did NOT put the Norgetag into the commercial market, but kept the orbital design almost exclusively for that market. While home last week, I took all my sister's family wash to a local laundromat and used the commercial Neptunes. They did pretty well, except I went about nuts without a window in the door. I hope WP keeps them around and puts in a d@mn window! | ||
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Post# 204998 , Reply# 37 4/18/2007 at 13:41 (6,207 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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I doubt there'll ever be a window in THAT door because the door contains a vibration absorber: Cabinet Vibration Absorber The purpose of the cabinet vibration absorber is to provide a dampening effect to the washer during the spin cycle. By dampening the machine vibration, the washer is able to maintain and achieve optimum spin performance. The stabilizer is attached to the inner door plug with two screws. (Laundry Products -> Maytag Neptune Washer) CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK | ||
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Post# 205084 , Reply# 39 4/18/2007 at 21:30 (6,207 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"Was" a rash of copper thefts in NYC? It still is going on and the bastards will steal any copper they can get their mitts on. Probably would try and get the Statue of Liberty if it wasn't so damn big! *LOL* Several weeks ago there was a news report about how persons are stealing copper wiring from some electic signs in subway stations. They are also breaking into old/abandoned homes and or those being redone and ripping out all the copper they can lay their hands on, mostly heating (lots of baseboard heating systems) and water pipes. As for rats chewing through things, some say the recent NYC problem with rodents is because of a relaxing of certian laws allowing other than copper pipes, especially connections from the sewer to the house. NYC Electricans: Don't know if the job would take only the morning, but a friends wanted a 220v line run, and since they had a fuse box it would have to be taken out and replaced with a panel, then would be the wiring for the outlet. The $3000 price was the lowest, though some others gave lower, but cautioned them against using qualified workers as shoddy work could put them, their home and apartment building at risk. In the end they are using a step up converter (smoking one out every few months depending upon how often appliance is used). Am trying to convince them to give up the ghost as the later isn't the best option either, but one cannot get too much into other people's business. L. | ||
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Post# 205103 , Reply# 40 4/18/2007 at 22:48 (6,207 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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