Thread Number: 11631
new find - a Turner! 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 207860   5/2/2007 at 08:59 (6,196 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

My partner Stephen and I have just returned from two days in Bendigo, a lovely old town a few hours north of here, a historic gold town from the 1850s gold rushes. We had some stuff to do there, decided to make a mini-holiday of it.
There is an excellent recycling centre in Bendigo, I went there for a look and chasing a gas heater fan for a neighbour. What I wasn't looking for was another washing machine. But I found a Turner washer, I'd guess from the late 50s or early 60s, a round body machine which is manually operated but heats its water, washes and spins in one tub. It is quite small.
We were in Stephen's car, a Holden Barina which is a tiny hatchback about the size of a Hyundai Getz. It was already half full with our luggage, plus we had to buy a weeks groceries on the way home, so space was at a premium...
After some tense negotiating I got "permission" to bring it home on the back seat of the car, if it would fit. It just fitted.
It is late, my back is very sore so photos will have to wait. It appears complete. it is simple - no gearbox, there are two belts and some pulleys underneath. The drum and agitator are fixed together like an agi-tub. There is a knob on top of the agitator. Turn the knob one way, the motor drives a two-step reduction via both belts and an idler pulley, to a crank which drives the agitator and tub back and forth. stop the machine, turn the knob the other way, it bypasses the idler and crank, drives the agitator and tub fast one way - spin. Pump is engaged manually with a lever, centre position is off, one way is marked "in" and one way is "out". This is not working properly, it stays engaged. I think it is to pump water in or out, pump in = suds save. (?) It has a main switch, turn one way for "on",centre off, other way for "heat". One of the belts is missing too.It was partly disassembled when I found it, but it only took a few minutes to put it together, it is quite simple. It will need a belt, a couple of circlips, some grease, a hose or two, some attention to the pump linkages, a good clean, a power cord, and I will have a fun old washer.

chris.




Post# 207874 , Reply# 1   5/2/2007 at 11:49 (6,196 days old) by simpsomatic (Melb, Aust-now Palm Springs,US)        
Turner

My Aunt Hilda had one of these. It was known as a Turner Sapphire. They came in white, light green or pink. It did need to be bolted to the floor and over the years before it was discontinued there were several earlier versions, namely one with a two part lid that left an outer ring above the washbasket so that clothes would not go over the edge. It was a very interesting concept how the basket and agitator were all one piece and the complete casing was what was used to hold water. The pump lever you describe was for suds save. Note the little spray arm on the top of the wash tub. It is used for fill, left against sidewall water flows from the bottom and moved out over the washbowl it converted to a spray arm for spray rinsing. The machine originally came with a 18 x 18 black and white glossy card to put on the wall with very detailed photos of each step of the Monday washday blues. My aunt had an old briquette hot water service and we had to reuse those suds until the water was grey. My mother used to send us kids to her for school holidays. I was 10 years old, year 1961. Yah...I got to play with the washing machine. I used to unbalance the loads something terrible trying to get the machine to rip itself from the floor bolts. The complete wash basket lifts out, you had to periodically clean the lint filter over the drain to keep a good flow when you had the pump on. She also had an ACME wringer attached to her two concrete laundry troughs that she would not get rid of, just in case. She did however get rid of the gas copper. All of this took place in the wash house, a small, dark scary room attached to the back of the house. Those were the days. Good find, lot's of photos please.

Rodney

Post# 207888 , Reply# 2   5/2/2007 at 13:47 (6,196 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia)        
Now...that sounds VERY interesting Chris!

 mayfan69's profile picture
Now that sounds like a very interesting find Chris...defintely looking forward to pics.

Nathan has a choice article from 1963 with an automatic Turner in it....and i also found this pic from the archives showing the Turner factory!

Leon

Post# 207951 , Reply# 3   5/2/2007 at 20:03 (6,196 days old) by arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)        
WOW!

 Thats so exciting!

I have a 1963 Mingay's catalogue at home that features this washer. I have never seen a Turner washer. For some reason I think they were only sold in the southern states.

Looking forward to your pictures.

How many washing machines do you have now?

Post# 208105 , Reply# 4   5/3/2007 at 20:53 (6,195 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

Thanks for posting that photo, Leon. The machines in the photo are newer than mine - you can see some cabinet tops in the photo, they are a square cabinet, mine is a small barrel. Also the wash tubs are different - the ones in the photo have a rim around the top to keep clothes in - mine doesn't have that.
I'd love it if Nathan could post that Choice test that has a Turner in it - I wonder what they thought of it?

I had a fiddle with the Turner yesterday - I had the right belt in the shed, by coincidence it is the same as one of the transmission belts for our ride-on mower.
I have greased up its bearings and pivots, and it works! The pump lever isn't quite right, it doesn't want to sit in the centre (pump off) position, it wants to jump left or right. But otherwise, it goes! The wash action has a very short stroke, less than 90 degrees, but as it has both agitator fins and paddles around the inside of the drum, it should still wash OK. The spin doesn't seem very fast. There is no lid and no safety switch, it just spins with its top open!
It has the little spray arm inside the top edge of the wash bowl, as Rodney mentioned, though it is seized up and slightly bent from trying to turn it anyway. (wasn't me!)

Chris.

Post# 208109 , Reply# 5   5/3/2007 at 21:02 (6,195 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

underneath

Post# 208110 , Reply# 6   5/3/2007 at 21:05 (6,195 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
How cool - I'll bet you'll have a great time with this. How many loads will it take before you put the rest of the washing in an automatic? I'd last about two ;-)

How tall is this machine?

Post# 208112 , Reply# 7   5/3/2007 at 21:09 (6,195 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

pump control

Post# 208116 , Reply# 8   5/3/2007 at 21:22 (6,195 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

crank for agitator action.

I have added the missing belt since the photo was taken.

You are right, Greg, this machine is a toy, I will do real wsahing in the Asko.

Post# 208118 , Reply# 9   5/3/2007 at 21:33 (6,195 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

outer cabinet is 81 cm (32") high, 51 cm (20") diameter

inner wash tub is 25 cm (10") high, 44cm (17") diameter.

Post# 208119 , Reply# 10   5/3/2007 at 22:02 (6,195 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Above design

peteski50's profile picture
This looks like this design works like the GM Frigidaire Adjtub. Am I correct in saying that the adjator and tub are molded together?
Peter

Post# 208151 , Reply# 11   5/3/2007 at 23:36 (6,195 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
Looks like fun!

Post# 208152 , Reply# 12   5/3/2007 at 23:44 (6,195 days old) by bobbins (Victoria, BC, Canada)        

A video of the this would be cool to see!!!!

Post# 208156 , Reply# 13   5/4/2007 at 00:44 (6,195 days old) by simpsomatic (Melb, Aust-now Palm Springs,US)        

Hey guys, lots going on here. Yes, Turner was manufactured in the southern state of Victoria. My uncle was a meter reader in the suburb of Box Hill. Not only did he get a discount because he worked for the electric company it was because Turner was a local company. We need to remember that Australia was then 30 years behind any technology that the U.S. had ever produced. Turner then, was what we know as the STANLEY company today, their claim to fame was construction tools,not washing machines. Gizmo, your machine is truly apart of the industrial revolution that brought Australia into the world market. So far through this wonderful group (Classic Appliances) from our Australian heritage we have shed light on such pioneers as NACO, LIGHTBURN and your TURNER classic. Simpson and Frigidaire (General Motors Holden) show up on E-bay once in a while with classics, we also have to remember POPE, which was the U.S. equivalent of NORGE and the THOR, which was the same as THOR AUTOMAGIC here in the U.S. in the 50's. Eventually in Australia Healing Thor produced the same machine as the Philco Bendix with it's sonicwaves, known in Australia as "surgent" action, the U.S equivalent of the Bendix economat. As for your Turner Sapphire, the lid is a round disc, no spin switch or safety, the spay arm was manufactured with a bend in it(not done by others) so do not feel bad. As for the capacity it was rated at 8lbs dry wash, as for the spin, 500 RPM. Believe me this machine had no roll-over, back and forth against the baffles were the order of the day. As for the pump lever (in, off, out) the most importsnt part of the control has been broken off, the bottom part of the plastic piece had lowered indentations to hold the lever in place for the selected action and had to be placed manually to hold. As to Turner's history of automatics, part of Turner's demise was their attempt to enter the automatic washing maching market along with Stampco. Both companies tried an automatic machine with a solid bowl lined with a perforated basket. Simpson at the same time competed with a solid tub lined with a plastic ribbed basket. Unfortunatley none of them survived. The Turner is truly apart of Australian heritage, do not think for one minute that your ASKO can do anything it can't. Thanks for the pix..keep posting, I want to remember it in action before my Aunt Hilda replaced it with a semi-automatic Kelvinator, remember the jingle......it's that Kelvinator agitator action that gives you greater washing satisfaction, Kelvinator washes cleanest,, washes cleanest, washes cleanest

Rodney

Post# 208161 , Reply# 14   5/4/2007 at 03:09 (6,195 days old) by victoriapark (Rosebery)        
Turner memories

 What a fabulous find Chris. I remember a neighbour who had one of these. If I recall you have to twist the black bakerlite knob on the top of the agitator to send the bowl into spin. I also remember the sloshing of the water as the suds save operation started and sudsy water slowly came back into the bowl. My neighbour kindly let me do the washing when I was being "minded" by her.
Even as young as I was I thought the washing action was hopeless, just swishing the clothes back and forth. The spin didn't seem to be very fast. It was still a thrill for me to see a spinner washer because my mother was still using a Westinghouse wringer machine with a cast aluminium agitator.

Look forward to more pics or even a video.

Greg

Post# 208168 , Reply# 15   5/4/2007 at 05:59 (6,195 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Rodney, please excuse my ignorance, but what is a briquette hot water service? It sounds manual. Was the "gas copper" a water boiler or was it a wringer washer with a gas burner under the tub for water heating like some early Easy washers here? I remember a reference to "the copper" in Dickens' A Christmas Carol when the pudding was taken out of the wash boiler and the steam from the hot, wet cloth recalled the boiling of laundry amidst the holiday pagentry. Actually, most any festive occasion is made merrier with the addition of a laundry ceremony.

Chris,
Your machine, while larger, reminds me of the little baby Easy washer in a couple of collections here. It was made to sit on the counter beside the sink so it is obviously much shorter. Although it had a transmission, the one piece tub and agitator had to be lifted up or lowered down so that the tub would rest on either the spin tube or the agitate shaft. It has a little rubber hose on the side and when the hose was lowered, it was strictly gravity drain. The instructions were very clear that the tub had to be drained before starting the spin and the lid, with a wide rubber gasket, had to be in place before spinning. The Easy of course, did not heat.

Congratulations on your newest treasure. I hope you have lots of fun with it.
Tom

Post# 208203 , Reply# 16   5/4/2007 at 10:57 (6,194 days old) by simpsomatic (Melb, Aust-now Palm Springs,US)        

Tom,
For many homes in Australia when I was growing up hot water was a luxury. Early homes had a chip heater in the bathroom, you fed little chips of wood into what has evolved into the tankless water heaters of today. They were very dangerous and were only used to draw a bath. Some homes had the same idea only they were gas fired. Gas was manufactured from coal and was expensive. Eventually natural gas was discovered in our waters and over the years gas hot water services became popular and are much the same as here in the United States. My parents had an electric off-peak hot water system. It was a 70 gallon tank installed in the attic and only heated water with half price electricity between 11PM and &AM. 70 gallons for a family of 5 can go mighty quick. It was gravity fed so if you were taking a shower and someone turned the hot water on in another location your shower went cold. Such fond memories. As for the briquette hot water heater they were generally in the washouse. It looked like a gas hot water heater but where the burner compartment is was a firebox. Every morning someone would be designated to light a small kindling fire and once you had a bed of ashes you could drop the briquettes in. Small black, heavy,filthy and dusty,compressed coal bricks, hard to catch fire but when burning produce smoke and fine yellow ash and a lot of heat. We also used them for heating the house in our slow combustion heaters in the fireplace. The concept of the hot water heater was a storage tank on the roof so as the water heated in the cylinder below it rose through pipes to the tank on the roof, all still gravity fed. If you did not control the fire the water would boil out of the tank on the roof, steam everywhere. Sorry for the long wind, but that's the way it was back then. As for the copper, large copper pot, wood fired, gas fired or electric. Yes you boiled the heck out of the clothes, Monday's only.

Rodney

Post# 208205 , Reply# 17   5/4/2007 at 11:17 (6,194 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Rodney, not long winded, but very interesting & informative. I guess that there was a flue of some sort for these water heaters in the bathroom and wash house? Many homes built in Florida before the 1950s had a water tank on the roof that was heated by the sun. It was painted black and could produce very hot water during the summer, but only limited amounts of not so hot water in the winter. Most of those homes only had portable space heaters for winter heating. Cold spells were miserable. I guess off-peak water heating is OK if you can stay awake or set timers so that washers and dishwashers can run at those times.

Post# 208242 , Reply# 18   5/4/2007 at 16:59 (6,194 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        
Off peak electric isnt that bad

 Firstly, Chris, was a fabulous looking machine. Another piece of Australiana rescued. I'm still hunting for my Malleys Automatic 12, and once that's found, I think my collection will be close to complete. There is a gearbox that controls the reciprocation?

My mother has memories of boiling the water in the wood fired copper, for bathing and washing. This was in the country between 1960-1965.

After that, the whole system got an update of sorts :)
Every morning, my grandfather would turn on the electric pump, and pump water up into the tank on the tankstand until it was full. Then for the rest of the day, the house was gravity fed with water. Hot water came from a heat exchanger on the back of the wood stove in the kitchen. The water was heated in the wood stove, and then was stored in a tank inside the roof, and was gravity fed to the taps.

Roll on 1975, and with it came town water, an electric stove, and a 500L electric off peak storage tank. Hot water became mains pressure, and heated between 11pm and 8am. If there were more than 4 people in the house, it was possible to switch the tank from offpeak mode, directly into mains power.

That system was still in place, when the last grandparent died in 2001 and the house was sold.

I can remember staying with my grandparents, and rarely running out of hotwater. My grandmother would do 2-3 warm wash loads per day, with 2 showers and a bath, and the water was still hot enough when you went to bed. You just made sure to turn the dishwasher on after the last shower, and with 240V if the water was too cool, it brings it up to temp anyway.

My grandfather policed showers and baths with an iron fist, as the greasetap/septic constantly had problems, and too much water through in one day, would easily overload the system.

I've got the 1960 malleys catalog here, that shows all the different types of coppers available. I'm away for the weekend, but when I get back, I'll scan the picture in.

Post# 208255 , Reply# 19   5/4/2007 at 18:19 (6,194 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia)        
Great Pics Chris

 mayfan69's profile picture
Hey Chris,

Great pics!! It certainly is an interesting looking machine...you were certainly in the right place and time to find it.

Cheers
Leon

Post# 208321 , Reply# 20   5/5/2007 at 07:38 (6,193 days old) by westyslantfront ()        

Looks a bit like a bolt down Thor automagic.


Ross

Post# 209159 , Reply# 21   5/9/2007 at 10:32 (6,189 days old) by simpsomatic (Melb, Aust-now Palm Springs,US)        

Gizmo, now that a couple of weeks have passed we are all anxiously awaiting your consumer report and pictures of your Turner Sapphire up and running. Amazing, no gear box. Did you figure out the pump lever yet?

On another note to Brisnat81 "Malleys Automatic 12"? Was that the horizontal axis top loader that was bolted to the floor? When my grandmother died many moons ago she left no will but one of the items up for distribution was this prized Malleys automatic. There were 4 sister-in laws, they drew straws and my mother won. It sat in our back porch for 15 years. My mother would not let Dad install it because the laundry was unlined and if he bolted the machine down he would never finish it. I used to hook the machine up once in a while but if it was unbalanced it would jump and we would run for our lives. Long story short, my mother gave it to a friend who installed it and on its maiden wash on advance to spin the lid shot open and water started pouring out. As it turns out the pump bellows had perished. They called Malleys and were told it was not worth repairing. To the last of my knowledge that machine sits bolted to the floor in that washhouse to this day. I will call my mother and ask her about her friend (dead or alive). Chances are slim but you never know.

Rodney (Palm Springs)

Post# 209358 , Reply# 22   5/10/2007 at 08:46 (6,188 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

Hi Rodney

I have given it a very quick run but can't use it anymore for a while. The Turner draws a huge current surge when it starts up and our solar power inverter can't cope - it turns for about 1 second, then stops and the inverter's overload light comes on. It does work on our diesel backup generator, but that is ridiculously noisy and annoys the neighbours. We are currently building a generator shed with sound-insulated walls, till then the Turner is off the road. Also the Turner is a bolt-down machine, not bolted down.

Initial impressions from a quick first run - wash action is better than I expected, it throws a bit of water around as I don't have the lid. No real "rollover", but it flings the clothes back and forth pretty well. the agitation arc is tiny - less than 90 degrees. When pumping out, it seems happier if I leave it agitating while pumping out (rather than setting it to spin when still full of water), once empty you can engage the spin. It spins quite slowly and leaps about as it isn't bolted down. The lack of a detent for the centre pump position (off) isn't a problem - just set it to "pump in" when washing, then to "pump out" to empty. I can't tell how it sounds, all I can hear is the generator.


Chris.

Post# 209384 , Reply# 23   5/10/2007 at 10:17 (6,188 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Now that is really cool Chris, I wonder how fast this thing spins? It looks sort of like a large version of a little Easy Whirldry washer.

Post# 210786 , Reply# 24   5/19/2007 at 02:59 (6,180 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        
Contact

 Hi Rodney,

I've tried to send you a few emails to the address in your profile, but have received no response.

If you could drop me a line at nathan_pethybridge@bigpond.com, that would be great.

Regards

Nathan

Post# 210826 , Reply# 25   5/19/2007 at 10:52 (6,179 days old) by simpsomatic (Melb, Aust-now Palm Springs,US)        

Hello Nathan, (Mail demon came back could not send, sorry guys for this communication here, email address seems to have too many letters, try emailing me again)

Sorry I did not get back to you sooner. I spoke to Mum on Mother's day. She thinks I am crazy but she remembers the machine and all of my antics and angles I pulled to try to get her to let Dad install it. Mum did tell me that, YES, her friends Bet and Ernie Carter are still alive and still live in the house where they installed the machine all those years ago. The last she spoke to them was a couple of years ago when my Dad died. Mum loves a mission so you can rest assured I will have an answer for you sooner or later. I recently needed her to bid on a Russell Hobbs Reflections cordless kettle on E-Bay Australia. She won the bid and then she mailed me the kettle. Here in the USA we can get the Reflections toaster but for some reason the kettle is available only in Australia and the UK. Point is, she did a great job and I am sure she will follow through with the Malleys. By the way if you can scan any pages you have of that 1960 Malleys catelogue or any other images of early machines in Australia I would be interested in seeing them. Glad to see Gizmo ran the Turner for a bit. Not sure about him having to have a generator, I thought we were moving out of the dark ages in Australia.

Talk to you soon

Rodney

Post# 210839 , Reply# 26   5/19/2007 at 12:42 (6,179 days old) by westyslantfront ()        

The Turner looks like a really fun machine to operate. Sure wish we had them here in the US.


Ross

Post# 211295 , Reply# 27   5/21/2007 at 06:58 (6,177 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        
DARK AGES???

 No dark ages here!

We have solar power, the clean power of the future. It provides NEARLY all our power needs. When the sun doesn't shine for a few days, or when I want to play with a washing machine that WAS made back in the dark ages, I start the generator. That way if the machine has a fault, or uses a huge power surge, my expensive solar equipment won't get damaged.
Unfortunately when buying the back-up generator, I listened to it running without a load, but not with a load. When loaded, it gets really noisy. I am currently building a soundproof generator shed, but it's not finished yet. Meanwhile the Turner can have a rest. At least it isn't crushed.

chris.

Post# 211328 , Reply# 28   5/21/2007 at 10:20 (6,177 days old) by simpsomatic (Melb, Aust-now Palm Springs,US)        

Chris,
My comment was retorical....If you remember my earlier thread I come from the generation that had to light a fire to heat water to bath and wash with. I think its great that you have invested in our planets future. We have several "green" options here but unfortunately it comes with a heavy cost and much opposition from the greedy utility companies. Thanks for saving the Turner.

Rodney

Post# 211525 , Reply# 29   5/22/2007 at 07:40 (6,176 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

no drama Rodney - I was only being mischievous anyway.

Chris.


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