Thread Number: 12638
The Freedom Maker for July Fourth |
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Post# 220662   7/4/2007 at 15:39 (6,112 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Thorough combing of Craigslist turned up this little find, and after an extended de-scuz-and-un-scale-plus-fix-the-damned-timer jam session at Roger's, it's time to present the Roto-Rack! Okay, so it's probably not from the same series as the Freedom Maker, but it felt patriotic. This one's probably the Marginal Liberator. |
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Post# 220663 , Reply# 1   7/4/2007 at 15:43 (6,112 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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You have your choice between Pre-Rinse (hey, I thought there was no pre-rinsing!), Light Wash, Light Wash--wait a minute! Yeah, I have no explanation for that one. Either a junkyard run by the owner at some point for a button, or impressive quality control at D&M. The second "Light Wash" button should be "Normal Wash." And, of course, my favorite cycle--the 160ºF Power Sani Wash, which uses real, unshielded uranium rods to heat the water to unprecedented temperatures that remove unsightly glaze from stoneware, the outer layer of silica from glass, and leaves the dishes touchably barren of life. |
Post# 220665 , Reply# 2   7/4/2007 at 15:47 (6,112 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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For those bacteriophobes out there, this machine is for you. Plus, the Hygienic Rinse delay raises the final rinse temperature to 160ºF, and takes a looong time to do it, thus taking the otherwise fast wash (W-R-R-W-R-R-D, in minutes, 8-3.5-3.5-9-4-5-26) and turning it into 8-3.5-3.5-9-4-35-26, which feel just about the same as using a modern dishwasher anyhow. Or, an Asko with a burned-out control board. Either way.
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Post# 220666 , Reply# 3   7/4/2007 at 15:48 (6,112 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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The dial, all clean. It needed a lot of toothbrushing to get the goop out from behind it that is created when the drying fan forces all the überhot, moist air up into the control panel for venting (an awesome design). The result? Crud buildup behind the timer dial, and a healthy spread of rust behind the control panel (which you can't see, but trust me, it's awesome). I think Speed Queen collaborated with D&M on this design. Fortunately, no ice-cream buckets needed yet :-) |
Post# 220667 , Reply# 4   7/4/2007 at 15:52 (6,112 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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A veritable cornucopia of filthy dishes, all scraped, but not pre-rinsed, which means a lot of tomato chunks and bits of oregano from the spaghetti sauce that's hiding in the pot in the bottom rack. The top rack is really full, probably Bob-load™ worthy, but it's hard to communicate that fact because it doesn't pull all the way out and give you a good aerial view. You get the idea, though. Will the Roto-Rack come through? Or with the turbo-heated-dry bake yiblets onto the dishes, and force Nate to tell his guests in the future, "Oh, that's just a part of the glaze?" |
Post# 220668 , Reply# 5   7/4/2007 at 15:52 (6,112 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Post# 220670 , Reply# 6   7/4/2007 at 15:54 (6,112 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Post# 220672 , Reply# 7   7/4/2007 at 15:58 (6,112 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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This dispenser's a little different than the normal, two-winged D&M rinse-agent dispenser. Of course, it leaks (as I found out after the first load), so I guess paper towels and patience will be the order of the day for a while. Argh. The mechanism that operates the detergent and rinse-agent dispensers is incredible and very Rube-Goldberg. One metal cantilever arm stretches between the spring-loaded rinse-agent injector and the plastic-tab catch for the detergent door, and pivots on a pin. One solenoid dispenses both the detergent and the rinse-aid by first releasing the catch for the door (which dumps the detergent), then ratcheting once more to arm the rinse-agent dispenser (so, two solenoid "firings" so far). Once the rinse hits, the solenoid fires for a third time, which releases the rinse agent (perpetually, apparently), and resets the arm for the next cycle, wherein it's ready to latch the detergent cup again. Good grief! It's amazing, and absolutely nothing about it even remotely makes you want to remove it to work on it :-) Engine swaps in cars have to be simpler. |
Post# 220673 , Reply# 8   7/4/2007 at 15:59 (6,112 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Post# 220678 , Reply# 10   7/4/2007 at 16:04 (6,112 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 220680 , Reply# 11   7/4/2007 at 16:06 (6,112 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 220681 , Reply# 12   7/4/2007 at 16:07 (6,112 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Two full cups of detergent; one enzymatic, and one chlorine-based, and a lot of crossed fingers. Unlike the KitchenAid next to it, which operates on the principle of long washes and a lot of decent filtration, the D&M Roto-Rack uses the "hit and run" dishwashing methodology, wherein a fast cycle is accompanied by a lot of water changes. Note the rinses--they last only 3.5 minutes!! Right after it starts washing, it's draining again, because forty-five seconds of those three-and-a-half minutes are fill time! The machine has the steel macerator blades below the wash impeller, but no filtration, so cleaning is accomplished through fast washes and rinses that serially dilute the living heck out of whatever's in the machine. As the cycle progresses, you can see the waste water getting freer and freer of microchunks and yiblets. The hope is that the inside of the dishwasher and the dishes are, too. An interesting side-note is that this machine has pot-metal impellers--not Bakelite ones like my Magic Chef. I've never seen this. On the good side, they are impervious to broken glass, which is always an issue with these machines (cleaning the wash-arms produced a couple of glass chunks, as always). Unfortunately, much like Greg's GuacaQueen, the pot metal is corroding away from the inside out, so I will need to get an impeller and pump seal kit at some point. That's just as well--I like the peace of mind that comes with minty fresh impellers and a nice, new carbon-porcelain pump seal. Of note, this is the ONLY D&M I've found so far that didn't sit and leak off the motor and need a pump-seal kit from the get-go. That's pretty impressive, and is probably attributable in part to the metal impellers. Since the plastic impellers were vulnerable to being damaged by hard objects, they could lose vanes and become imbalanced. The resulting vibration, though imperceptible to the operator, would compromise the carbon-porcelain seal eventually. Then, it peed on the floor! Fortunately, the motors on these have good slinger rings, as if it was D&M's way of saying, "Hey, we figured that would happen." |
Post# 220682 , Reply# 13   7/4/2007 at 16:08 (6,112 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 220683 , Reply# 14   7/4/2007 at 16:12 (6,112 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Everything is absolutely spotless! I even decided to live dangerously and let it go through the heated dry in its entirety. The top rack results are better than the KitchenAid, which is impressive. (Of course, you'll never get dirty corners when you eliminate the corners altogether, right?) :-) Only one piece of tomato skin (very clean tomato skin) is stuck in the silverware basket, but that's okay, because the KA does the same thing. Think of a silverware basket as a super-coarse mesh filter :-) Everything else is clean--yay!! The plastic thingy is a good point, Bob--it didn't go flying this time, because I had hooked the edges of it under a couple of glasses, but that doesn't photograph well. Happily, none of the plastics were damaged by the heated dry, and they're all nice and free of water-drops! Bob, you were so right about the heated dry protecting the sumps on these machines--I lucked out (again) that this machine has a perfectly intact sump, but I'd never used the heated dry before...wow, it really does get rid of all the sump water! There's just the tiniest trace left down there--not the veritable swimming pool that the heated-dry-optional machines of later years left behind. |
Post# 220684 , Reply# 15   7/4/2007 at 16:14 (6,112 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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I think it's a keeper, for now. All though I'm going to start a bet with Greg about dropping-in an au gratin casserole and then letting it go through the heated dry ;-) It's fun, and I love the quirks of D&M machines, so since I left the Magic Chef behind, I had to find something to scratch the itch. Woo-hoo! :-D |
Post# 220685 , Reply# 16   7/4/2007 at 16:15 (6,112 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Yes, you're absolutely right, the heating delay occurs during the final rinse--apparently the "power wash" and "hygienic rinse" are really just one in the same. The thermostat that detects the tank temperature is hidden in the door-liner, in a tiny bracket. You can't see any trace of it from the inside, unlike the tiny probes in a KitchenAid. I think you're right--I think someone snagged a button :-) |
Post# 220686 , Reply# 17   7/4/2007 at 16:15 (6,112 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 220687 , Reply# 18   7/4/2007 at 16:19 (6,112 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Naughty bear, giving that rack a spin like that. I was known a time or two when the mother wasn't around to put something extremely disgusting in there. Put it on the final rinse with heat delay and let it do a power soak. Run for like 40 minutes with detergent. Amazing results. And all that time, yibblits got ground up eventually lol. Then after that drain, turn timer around and start at beginning for it to complete the whole cycle.
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Post# 220691 , Reply# 19   7/4/2007 at 16:28 (6,112 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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LOL, it is more fun than should be allowed! I love the look on people's faces when you open the door while it's washing and the top rack is still going a million miles an hour. Hey, no water left on top of your coffee mugs! I guess if spinning is good for the laundry, why not give it a go in the dishes! Speaking of which, yes, I was naughty and gave it a spin ;-) LOL That is a REALLY GOOD idea for using the heated rinse as a super-prewash. I'll have to cook-up something ultra-disgusting and give it a go! |
Post# 220694 , Reply# 20   7/4/2007 at 16:32 (6,112 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 220765 , Reply# 22   7/4/2007 at 23:56 (6,111 days old) by exploder3211 ()   |   | |
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question: does the thing have any rust?? looks like a nice machiene |
Post# 220766 , Reply# 23   7/5/2007 at 00:04 (6,111 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
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I dig the gray/green racks - to match the buttons, how cute! Steve1-18 (a member here) took the cover plates off the timer in his D&M Kenmore and filed down the cam so that the sani-heat delay would trip in the main wash cycle as well as the final rinse. This modification and the resulting increase in run-time to a day and half made for some very, very clean dishes. I've thought about doing that with mine. This machine can do a fine job with dishes from one meal, or even a busy dish-day, but when we let dishes "build up" to a full load over several days, the KM has a tough time with dried-on soils. The dispenser system you describe is pretty funny. I wonder if you take the tank and valve assy. out for a good cleaning and long hot tub in the sink if that would melt and remove any build-up in the valve & assy. Sometimes it works and sometimes, not but worth a try. Don't be afraid of working on that system, parts haven't been available for years and I'll win the "au-gratin" bet by default - hee hee.... Maybe a better bet would be to see how long it takes to sneak back into using the KitchenAid - I already know how long it took me! The next time you see a Danby countertop dishwasher on Craigslist, grab it. They are really fun to play with - another appliance Roger wouldn't use to...well, you know... Have fun playing with it - a must for any dishwasher connoisseur. Consider it a swig of Boone's Farm instead of Dom! |
Post# 220804 , Reply# 24   7/5/2007 at 08:29 (6,111 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)   |   | |
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Post# 220808 , Reply# 25   7/5/2007 at 08:38 (6,111 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)   |   | |
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Post# 220809 , Reply# 26   7/5/2007 at 08:56 (6,111 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Mike, the rack is moved by water pressure. A tube comes up the middle of the back of the tub, right under the rack. Some jets spray directly up to spray the contents in the rack, other jets spray at an agle and cause the rack to rotate because they hit the rungs of the rack. I'm not sure how many rpms it does. But I would say once the intertia forces begin, maybe 20 or so a minute. It all depends on how balanced in weight the top rack is. Also, I noticed that if it was evenly, heavily loaded, it seemed to spin a bit faster.
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Post# 220810 , Reply# 27   7/5/2007 at 08:59 (6,111 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 220871 , Reply# 28   7/5/2007 at 14:28 (6,111 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Dale: If your dishwasher performance is bad, there can be a lot of reasons why. What make/model is yours? Factors affecting performance (aside from detergent and its state of freshness, as you noted) include incoming water temperature (it needs to be 120-140ºF, and for my D&M, hotter is better), filter design and cleanliness, making sure the water pressure is sufficient so that it gets a full fill, making sure spray arms turn freely and the jets are not plugged, and so on. Let us know what you have and we might be able to help you out. Bob: That's neat about the detergent cup--I hadn't thought of that :-) I need to get the rinse-aid dispenser to stop passively barfing Jet-Dry, and then we'll be good to go. What isn't pictured are the cereal bowls and glasses that are hiding under the big bowl and the colander in the bottom rack, so I made sure to flex my BobLoading muscle ;-) The only thing that isn't "nested" is the saucepan in the lower-left, because the tines are so numerous and closely-spaced that it was just too pissy about fitting anything underneath. Oh, that's another thing. Try fitting a jelly roll pan in the bottom rack on the far left or right. The 1/2" distance between the rack wall and first row of tines forces everything to bend inward, and then you're hosed. Grrrr. I wish they had made a more spacious layout. I have to be careful with putting glasses in the bottom racks of these machines, though, unless they are very thick-walled--I've lost many an item to the patented "blast-and-bump" washing action. Terry: How cool! I wonder what year this one might be? You're very welcome--just a little bit of clean dishes for holiday mirth :-D Robert: LOL I will cut a Plexiglas door for this one and video it. I have to admit I'm intensely curious myself! And yes, that's two full physical detergent cups, not two measuring cups of detergent :-) (though, with our hard water, the difference might not be that great...) Greg: :-P I love the gray racks too--I'm used to the butterscotch yellow that came later. That idea about filing the cam is EXCELLENT, though I'll have to work up the chutzpah to do it. I'd swear I remember my grandmother's 1983-ish D&M Kenmore with the Water Miser/Pots&Pans/Normal/Light/Rinse&Hold/SaniTemp/HotDry/CoolDry bonanza as having a spot in Pots&Pans where it would hang-out in the middle of the Light wash cycle and sit forever to heat, but I could be wrong. That Sani Heat option would be so much more appreciated in the wash than in the rinse. We have some über-icky dishes accumulating that will feature the finest in dried-on soils, so I'll have to give it a whirl and report. I'll try to go after the Jet-Dry dispenser--I think I know where it's leaking and what it will look like, and I'm already unmotivated to fix it. But, I need to repaint the unit anyway, so I may as well investigate. And thanks for the encouragement--there's nothing quite like taking comfort in the knowledge that it's bad now, but could be rendered completely dysfunctional and impossible to replace ;-) ROTF I will keep an eye out for one of those Danbys! They sound like loads of fun. Is the au gratin bet nullified if I mod the cam on the timer? ;-) Can I call it a nip of Arbor Mist instead? :-P Mike: Yes, the top-rack moves through water pressure alone, and a very freewheeling bearing in the middle. Bob's description was spot-on :-) It is a very substantial unit--and quite fun to heave around across Saltillo tile grout lines (argh!) :-) I find that my rack spins at about 80-100 RPM--that's how fast I've clocked it when the door opens and it's just spinning down from being powered by the wash tube underneath. We're all amazed that it doesn't break things. When the dishwasher stops to drain, you can still hear the "whoom-whoom-whoom-whoom-squeak!" of the rack still spinning away. |
Post# 220873 , Reply# 29   7/5/2007 at 14:30 (6,111 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Post# 220878 , Reply# 30   7/5/2007 at 14:46 (6,111 days old) by tlee618 ()   |   | |
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Nate, just guessing here but I am going to say 1973-74, wish I had some old Sears catalogs to confirm this. |
Post# 220888 , Reply# 31   7/5/2007 at 15:54 (6,111 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Nate, this pre-dates our 1970 or 1971 Roto-Rack that went to the lake house. I've not seen a timer dial like this (with the rinse numbers on it and such). I know on my 1980 D&M dishwasher, the Pots n Pans cycle slowed down the timer so that the main wash was 30 minutes. How do I know it wasn't timed delayed, cuz I just HAD to run the dishwasher empty right after closing on the house and before the water heater was even lit. The PnP cycle main wash also had the heater on to increase incoming water temp. It didn't do that on normal (again before water heater lit). This had one of those big fat dials on it. Was Sears' 2nd generation rectangular top rack edition. |
Post# 220896 , Reply# 32   7/5/2007 at 16:55 (6,111 days old) by rogera608s (Tucson,AZ)   |   | |
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Nate, The Kenmore looks right at home in your kitchen I must say. What do the troops think of it? Also I bet it works much better with hot water!!! :-) Roger |
Post# 220906 , Reply# 33   7/5/2007 at 17:20 (6,111 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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LOL It's just ready to push that KitchenAid right out, I tell you! :-P Frank and Will think it's fun. They like the faster cycle, but it's such a b-tch to move across that uneven floor. Mostly I think they're just humoring me, which is fine, too :-P I had no idea Roto-Racks went back so far...check out this Sears advert from 1968! CLICK HERE TO GO TO roto204's LINK |
Post# 220909 , Reply# 34   7/5/2007 at 17:28 (6,111 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 220937 , Reply# 36   7/5/2007 at 18:58 (6,111 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Nate, the one obtained for the lakehouse had green racks and then one we got for Houston in like late 1972 or 1973 had yellow racks with white cutlery basket. The latter one was the built-in version of the portable one Greg has in Omaha. I really thihk yours dates back to 1968 or 1969. Both of ours were next to the LK models of their time. The first one had a light behind the big clear timer dial with temp lights on the panel and the latter had the smaller dial with the red indicator light and lights above the buttons. The temp indicator lights were much smaller and actually the tiny letters in the words were illumiinated.
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Post# 220938 , Reply# 37   7/5/2007 at 19:00 (6,111 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 220948 , Reply# 38   7/5/2007 at 19:23 (6,111 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)   |   | |
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Post# 220953 , Reply# 39   7/5/2007 at 19:31 (6,111 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 220993 , Reply# 40   7/6/2007 at 00:29 (6,110 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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THANK YOU!!! Oh my gosh, I had no idea it was so old! How fabulous! Okay, since you were so nice as to dig up that catalogue clipping, I guess we'll have to get some Plexiglas going on here and put on a show ;-)...fair is fair. I have dried-on smoothie glasses and the blender guts washing away in it right now. Details to follow in the morning when the load is done :-D alr2903 -- That's good to know. It does fly! :-D Bob -- Ah, yes, the Crosley impeller "Roto-Racks"--wouldn't that be a hoot to find one of those! That is cool. Thank you for the info on the other models--I remembered there had to be one where the lights showed the cycle progress. You can see the cut-outs for the lights on this one, if it had them. |
Post# 220999 , Reply# 41   7/6/2007 at 00:57 (6,110 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Post# 221000 , Reply# 42   7/6/2007 at 00:58 (6,110 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Post# 221001 , Reply# 43   7/6/2007 at 00:59 (6,110 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Post# 221002 , Reply# 44   7/6/2007 at 01:02 (6,110 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Will commented on how nice and pristine the glasses are, until I pointed out that they're really in a constant bath of Jet-Dry right now, anyway :-P Here's what you're working with on the bottom, by the way. I've seen the later series of wash arms that had big, staggered holes like a GE, or complete lines of small holes all along the middle of the wash arm (like the last of the series had), but I've not seen this one. Surprisingly, it works well, even with so few jets. What's up with the shield on the bottom under the wash-arm? Later models didn't have this, but one of the late-seventies rectangular-rack models I found did. What's the theory? This shield has small, staggered holes all over it, but the one I found had a few big holes, plus two strategically placed so you could slide a nut-driver through to remove the wash-arm support. (This one lacks those "cheater" holes.) |
Post# 221003 , Reply# 45   7/6/2007 at 01:04 (6,110 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Post# 221091 , Reply# 47   7/6/2007 at 13:56 (6,110 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Thanks for all the great info!! I noticed that the POD today is along the lines of what you were discussing, showing the higher-end machine(s). Yes, it has the original racks, so far as I can tell. The condition of the Bakelite shows a fair amount of use...I wonder if D&M's quality was just a hair better back then. I know what you mean about the insulation! The discrete little plastic-wrapped fiberglass panels are cute :-P Yes, I usually have to order a pump kit when I find these dishwashers, which includes the carbon-porcelain seal, the drain impeller, and wash impeller, along with a shim or three. You can also get the wash-arm support brand-new for $27, which is not bad for a brand-new shiny bit of dishwasher bling. Chad, no, there's no rust in this machine on either the racks or the sumps. What rust was there appears to have been surface rust, because the remnants of staples and twist-ties were found in the sump. Once those were scoured out, it shined! |
Post# 221116 , Reply# 48   7/6/2007 at 18:20 (6,110 days old) by cny4 (Central New York)   |   | |
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We had two of these Sears dishwashers growing up each lasted only about 7 years; the bottom's would rust out, creating puddles under the machine. I also had on in my first apartment, same thing the bottom rusted out. Who was D&M and did they make machines for any other companies? |
Post# 221493 , Reply# 49   7/8/2007 at 21:46 (6,107 days old) by varicyclevoice (Davenport, Iowa)   |   | |
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Post# 221501 , Reply# 50   7/8/2007 at 22:18 (6,107 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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We had a LK circa '74 or '75 with a Roto-rack. It was great fun to play with, but as is mentioned above, the bottom rusted out of it. My stepfather kept trying to patch the holes with some product or other. I replaced it with a circa '84 or so KitchenAid, when I moved back into the house after college.
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