Thread Number: 13406
Maytag's Tall Tub Dishwasher
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Post# 231860   8/20/2007 at 21:15 (6,091 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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So, I've heard alot of talk on here that Whirlpool is and is not going to alter the current Maytag tall tub dishwasher mechanism.

I totally agree that they should keep Maytag's mechanism, and even spread it to all the other Whirlpool subsidiaries.

But what's with the rumors about them putting the corporate Whirlpool mechanism in? SO they're NOT doing this?
The Maytags will stay just as they are?

WHY?
I'm glad if they are. But what is Whirlpool's rationale for staying with Maytag's design? I'd couldn't believe that they would not think theirs is automatically superior.

Unless.....they figured out Maytag's is better???

So what does everyone think is going to happen?





Post# 231891 , Reply# 1   8/21/2007 at 01:29 (6,090 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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John, the Maytag factory is "fairly new" and modern in the scheme of things from what I understand. Maytag put a lot of $$ into the facility, so Whirlpool is giong to keep it around, but who knows for how long.

Post# 231892 , Reply# 2   8/21/2007 at 01:29 (6,090 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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It's kind of like, all Maytag, Whirlpool, ... bottom-mount fridges are from the old Amana factory.

Post# 231903 , Reply# 3   8/21/2007 at 05:25 (6,090 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Someone in another thread posted that they'd already seen Whirlpool-designed dishwashers badged as Maytags, somewhere----Lowe's or Home Depot, perhaps.

That's too bad. I'm completely impressed with my tall-tub Maytag in loading flexibility and cleaning. They should keep the Maytag design and re-badge them as Whirlpools!

From a corporate point of view, it doesn't make sense for Whirlpool to keep two different manufacturing processes going.



Post# 231915 , Reply# 4   8/21/2007 at 08:01 (6,090 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
Business Economics....and how it may benefit us Appliance Lo

How Whirlpool chooses to position the Maytag brand will be one factor in keeping the design or not, but the major factor is that, since the factory and the technology is newer and up and running, that is a "sunk cost" for the company and there is no getting around that. What value it brings to the table in terms of contribution margin all depends on the sales it generates. It is not sufficient to just say "it doesn't make sense to have two different manufacturing processes in place" as there are fixed and unavoidable costs associated with keeping any operation running. If the operation is self sustaining, and produces a margin that more than covers the fixed and variable costs, it will stay (and it doesn't matter how good or bad the product is here). Even a bad product may continue in production (haven't we all seen that?) if offsetting those fixed costs will drive the organization's margins down on its other operating entities. If it does go, someone has to absorb those fixed costs, and it's going to be Whirlpool's other operating entities, which in turn shifts their margins down as they are forced to absorb more cost. Since Maytag has designed and produced a good product here, as long as the consumer agrees and continues to buy it, it won't be going anywhere any time soon. Once the factory starts becoming obsolete and in need of major restoration, that might be a different story since a capital infusion will change the economics of the whole scenario. Of course, outside factors such as labor, regulatory issues, materials, recalls, quality issues, etc., always play a role, but that's a given for almost anything these days.

Of course, those of us who do love that design hope that it will be around for a long time, maybe even making it into Whirlpool's own line.

On a side note, I did see Maytag branded refrigerators at Homo Depot that are Whirlpool manufactured units. Does anyone know where Whirlpool manufactures their refrigerators? Is it Mexico?


Post# 231916 , Reply# 5   8/21/2007 at 08:07 (6,090 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Eugene, there's an entry-level Maytag that now has Whirly's DuraWash design, but that's no big deal and nuttin to get your panties all in a wad over. This simply replaced the original std. tub design maytag style.

Post# 231921 , Reply# 6   8/21/2007 at 08:26 (6,090 days old) by runematic (southcentral pa)        

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The BOL Maytag dw is now a WP unit (MDB4621). That's a shame because the Jetclean I was a very nice dishwasher. For now, the Jetclean II (talltubs), it seems, will remain a Maytag unit.

Post# 231935 , Reply# 7   8/21/2007 at 10:33 (6,090 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Andrew---I certainly see your point, but I'd be willing to bet the farm there is only one DW design in Whirlpool's future. They use their design for all their brands, and I doubt Maytag will be an exception.

Post# 232010 , Reply# 8   8/21/2007 at 16:55 (6,090 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

Most likely in the future, that is exactly what they will wind up doing. From a manufacturing perspective, everything has an expiration date!

Post# 232012 , Reply# 9   8/21/2007 at 16:59 (6,090 days old) by magic clean ()        

The Maytag-Jenn Air tall-tub design continues. The standard tub Maytag machines have joined the Whirlpool family of vertical pump design units. They are made in Tennesee and Ohio repectively.

The Kenmore, Whirlpool & KitchenAid tall-tub design continue as well from Ohio.

Whirlpool refrigerators are built in Indiana(top-freezers) Iowa (bottom-freezers), Tennesee (built-in), Arkansas & Mexico (basic side by sides & small top freezers)


Post# 232027 , Reply# 10   8/21/2007 at 18:41 (6,090 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
woah, woah

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Careful now.
DuraWash and "vertical design" are opposites.

Isn't the DuraWash that crappy system with the "soil settler" and a horizontal plastic motor?

Because Whirlpool's only vertical design is the PowerClean.

Have they put a Powerclean module in the Maytags or the crappy Roper DuraWash???

There's a huge difference. If the PowerClean is in the Maytags, then that's awesome. If not.........screw them.


Post# 232036 , Reply# 11   8/21/2007 at 19:14 (6,090 days old) by magic clean ()        

Vertical design = Powerclean.

Post# 232055 , Reply# 12   8/21/2007 at 20:40 (6,090 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

OK, I'm confused....who's got what?

Post# 232062 , Reply# 13   8/21/2007 at 21:13 (6,090 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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What is on second base.

*LOL*


Post# 232077 , Reply# 14   8/21/2007 at 22:09 (6,089 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

Then where is Who?

Post# 232078 , Reply# 15   8/21/2007 at 22:15 (6,089 days old) by maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
In

Whoville, of course.


Lawrence/Maytagbear


Post# 232096 , Reply# 16   8/21/2007 at 23:43 (6,089 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Who is on first

Post# 232114 , Reply# 17   8/22/2007 at 04:34 (6,089 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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What?!

Post# 232118 , Reply# 18   8/22/2007 at 05:21 (6,089 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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What is on second, who is on first

Post# 232119 , Reply# 19   8/22/2007 at 05:26 (6,089 days old) by magic clean ()        
Sorting this out:

"Because Whirlpool's only vertical design is the PowerClean".

"Have they put a Powerclean module in the Maytags?" YES! In the basic entry level standard tub undercounter machines. There are no Maytag machines with the horizontal Dura-wash pump-motor

*************************************************************

"Andrew---I certainly see your point, but I'd be willing to bet the farm there is only one DW design in Whirlpool's future. They use their design for all their brands, and I doubt Maytag will be an exception".

NO, both manufacturing divisions continue producing different product platforms. No plans to eliminate one facility or the other.

See the websites detailing various models and features.


Post# 232152 , Reply# 20   8/22/2007 at 07:31 (6,089 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Sorry to belabor the point, but I just find it hard to fathom why, when every appliance line in every brand they've acquired over the years has rather quickly become a Whirlpool clone (including KitchenAid), they'll keep producing two different dishwasher designs. What in their corporate history points toward this happening?

Believe me, I'd love to be proved wrong on this point; I think Maytag dishwashers are fantastic!

And who know, they might decide to keep the Maytag platform and dump their own as an easy way to introduce "the all-new, completely redesigned Whirlpool dishwasher!" I suppose that hinges on Whirlpool having acquired all the rights/patents/etc. for Maytag's designs in the purchase agreement.

I'm skeptical, given their history in this matter, they'll continue to produce both for very long.


Post# 232155 , Reply# 21   8/22/2007 at 07:43 (6,089 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

WIth KitchenAid, they lost the manufacturing facility and equipment during the buyout, so they really had no choice but to introduce their own design into the KA models. Can't speak for the rest of their acquisitions, but I don't remember them being anything special like KA was.

When they acquired Maytag, they also acquire all patents, rights to patents, contracts, debts of the company, etc., so there is no question that they have rights to it. It's just a matter of will it sell such that they can justify keeping that design going without major reliability issues like their washers had. Like I said before, in manufacturing, everything has an expiration date....be it the technology due to regulation, the manufacturing equipment, etc. Whether or not it lives beyond that point depends on what it does for their collective bottom line. It would be nice to see a changeover to the Maytag design for Whirlpool's own line...kind of combining the best of both worlds in terms of technology.

The new KA dishwasher lines are apparently getting rave reviews so far. I checked one out last week, got to try it at the store, opened the machine while it was running and got a nice shower in the process...there was actually a good bit of water flying around in there. Maybe they've abandoned the lawn sprinkler wash system? One can only hope.


Post# 232164 , Reply# 22   8/22/2007 at 08:25 (6,089 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Leslie, Does the Maytag with the PowerClean wash system have a wash arm under the top rack? That was the only thing that kept my Maytag standard tub dishwasher from being a machine with every feature needed so that it could be packed full and clean everything in the load. Thank you for your reassurance that the Maytag tall tub design will continue. I want to get one of the next to the top of the line Maytag or JennAir DWs and make it a portable with wheels instead of leveling feet, side panels from IKEA, a nice piece of counter top and a strategically mounted concrete weight in back. Or maybe just the cabinet from a Maytag portable.

Post# 232181 , Reply# 23   8/22/2007 at 09:33 (6,089 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Andrew---If they acquired all the rights/patents/etc., that could make a difference in their production strategy. Thanks for all that information!



Post# 232294 , Reply# 24   8/22/2007 at 20:01 (6,089 days old) by magic clean ()        
"Que Sera Sera"



Tom;

"Leslie, Does the Maytag with the PowerClean wash system have a wash arm under the top rack"? Yes


Post# 232301 , Reply# 25   8/22/2007 at 20:31 (6,089 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        


Well, I can't wait to see one of the new ones and see what the space inside looks like. One of the drawbacks to the power clean module always seemed to be a lack of rack height on the lower rack. I've gotten really spoiled with the GE tall tub's ability to accomodate 13.5" platters along with tall wine glasses in the same load! That's a nice feature to have. Of course, the power clean machines will outclean just about anything, which is a major plus in anybody's book!


Post# 233780 , Reply# 26   8/29/2007 at 16:38 (6,082 days old) by magic clean ()        
New

Maytag standard tub dishwasher model by Whirlpool with Power Clean wash system.

Post# 233786 , Reply# 27   8/29/2007 at 17:01 (6,082 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Wow, they really went back in time didn't they for the Maytag.
That's the design without direct feed water distribution.

That kinda stinks.


Post# 233791 , Reply# 28   8/29/2007 at 17:08 (6,082 days old) by magic clean ()        
John

it loads similarly to the Maytag machine it replaced with the lower rack spray tower. Notice it has split flatware baskets off to the right side with sorting covers. Plus a small items basket (on the machine door for photo purposes) Not too bad for a under $275 machine I think?

Post# 233792 , Reply# 29   8/29/2007 at 17:11 (6,082 days old) by magic clean ()        
Also

what is not readily apparent, the lower rack has a bullnose. The front is bumped out. So it can handle large pots & other items in spite of the water feed column for the upper rack.

Post# 233833 , Reply# 30   8/29/2007 at 19:21 (6,082 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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OK guys give it a break. Do you realize THAT new Maytag is just like the Kenmore UltraWash non-TT dishwashers? Before Scott55405 moved to LA, the UltraWash portable he had in his apartment was pretty much like this, including bull-nose bottom rack and the "top" spray nozzle through the upper rack!!

Post# 233899 , Reply# 31   8/29/2007 at 23:05 (6,081 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
though...

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because it has a PowerClean...I would highly consider getting this machine.

Post# 233998 , Reply# 32   8/30/2007 at 09:35 (6,081 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

So, is Maytag selling the version of the non-TT with the direct feed upper wash arm, or only the tower feed version. I'd certainly consider the direct feed, but that tower in the center is a pain in the ass.

Post# 234483 , Reply# 33   9/1/2007 at 19:12 (6,079 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
You are so right, Andrew!

That was such a stupidly designed dishwasher in every version WP ever made. It had a great pump system but that center tube restricted the placement of dishes and the upper washarm was so easily blocked by dishes or anything tall placed on the sides.I can load so much more in my DU950 machine than that thing would hold on the bottom even without the bullnose rack.

They did the right thing copying the KitchenAId washarm setup and added the direct feed inside but they still missed the boat by underslinging the upper washarm. Kitchen Aid was smarter with the upper arm fed thru the rack and the "China-Guard" which almost always guranteed a block proof washwarm.
What a step BACKWARDS for the Maytag line!

Just my $.02


Post# 234773 , Reply# 34   9/3/2007 at 17:54 (6,077 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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I agree with you SteveT, but in Whirlpool's defense, this IS the Maytag BOL machine.
I'm a little relieved Whirlpool didn't put the true WP BOL system in; the DuraWash with the center wash tower and "soil settler" filter system.
Talk about junk...



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