Help! Maytag Repairman recommends euthanasia!


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Thread Number: 1383
Help! Maytag Repairman recommends euthanasia!

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Post# 58232 2/25/2005 at 01:22 (6,999 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes My 1977 Maytag CA408 washer recently lost its ability to brake after the spin cycles. An authorized Maytag repairman whom I've used in the past for repairs on a couple of other appliances, told me that with a washer as old as mine, replacing the brake mechanism is like "opening a Pandora's box" -- one part replacement leading to another -- and said (surprisingly to me) that I could go on using the washer with no adverse effects, which I did for the past couple of months. However, the other day a load was finishing and I heard a couple of screeching sounds and then smelled 'rubber burning'. I went over to the washer, lifted the lid, and realized that although it had pumped most of the water out, it had stopped spinning and the tub had seized. So, once again I called my 'Maytag repairman', who basically said that machines this old are all corroded, rusty or whatever and when you take one part out, another breaks. He said I would just have to buy a new washer because he wouldn't fix it at any price! Well, the problem isn't that I'm too cheap to buy a new washer (though I know they're not $300 anymore!); the problem is that -- aside from having no respect for or faith in anything new -- the washer is in my kitchen next to its matching dryer and among all my other 'vintage coppertone' appliances. But, in the words of the Maytag repairMEN (I spoke to another one), after 27 years of service it's life expectancy has more than been met! Something's wrong here -- why are they making parts for these washers if it isn't practical to repair them??? So, like someone just diagnosed with a terminal illness and in denial, I turned to the web, seeking either a ray of hope or agreement with the diagnosis, and I happened upon this site! After reading through many, many of the posts here, it seems there's a wealth of expertise among you guys, and I feel sure I can trust your opinions, negative or positive -- if you'd be so kind as to offer any. Thanks so much, PAT

Post# 58233 , Reply# 1 2/25/2005 at 02:28 (6,999 days old) by fixerman ()
Checkrate/Likes I think it depends how much time and effort you want to spend on it. They are relatively simple machines and parts, new and used, should not be hard to find. Having the work done by a repairman wouldn't be practical, which is probably why they tried to discourage you. If you like the machine and you are willing take the time to learn and do most of the work yourself go ahead and fix it.

Post# 58234 , Reply# 2 2/25/2005 at 02:54 (6,999 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)
Checkrate/Likes Oh yeah, I'd either fix it or find a replacement and switch out the cabinet so you will still have a match for your dryer. A friend of mine and I took a coppertone cabinet and the "guts" of an upper-end two-speed and put them together to make one GREAT Coppertone 1968 Maytag A806 with a lighted control panel and tub! No matter what, if you are willing to do the work the job CAN BE DONE!

Post# 58237 , Reply# 3 2/25/2005 at 06:58 (6,999 days old) by Mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)
Checkrate/Likes *Maytag Repair* Pat, welcome to this site. Go and get yourself a reapir manual for that machine. Has the machine been in your home? (and I mean inside your home, not in a barn, not on the porch not in the shanty etc....) If so, you are in good shape! You will not have much rust to contend with especially if you have kept the Maytag looking new and not sloping bleach all over it. I have a 1973 pair, and have worked (minimal) on mine, oh so easy, and I have rust! Yea you have to replace a few additional items, but sooooooooooo. Buy the parts in question, which I could not tell you what they are, but find out, then get those obvious ones first. You will probably need a new drain pump located in the right front of the machine on the bottom, so get that while you are at too. The felt under the pedistal that the outer tub rest on will need to be changed as well. Other than that, your in good shape. Do not trash the Machine(s), if you get over it and want new ones, go ahead, but please, let us know on here, someone would want your coppertone. Steve In Pensacola

Post# 58243 , Reply# 4 2/25/2005 at 09:53 (6,999 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)
Checkrate/Likes The breaking mechanism (which is part of the helical drive) should be basically the same one that is used in the current line of orbital drive transmission machines. That the tub has now siezed up is further indication that there is something wrong in the helical drive. The parts are readily available. Any "Ol' Lonely" who is worth his muster can take care of it. You have a lazy repairman. Call someone else or give it a shot yourself! Welcome to the club!

Post# 58265 , Reply# 5 2/25/2005 at 19:46 (6,998 days old) by appnut (TX)
Checkrate/Likes Pat, I'm glad ya found this site. Hope the knowledgeable ones here will steer you in the right direction. BTW, I'd love to see all the appliancews in your coppertone kitchen. Bob

Post# 58266 , Reply# 6 2/25/2005 at 19:58 (6,998 days old) by mrmaytag (Tennessee)
Checkrate/Likes *Don't scrap it yet!!!!!!!!!* Hi. I too concur with the others here, there is something a miss in the brake package. However, before you start condemning the brake package, take the tub cover off and make sure no clothes have wedged themselves between the basket and the tub. I saw a similar problem with a 80's model (can't remember the model #) Maytag where the machine went into spin, spun a piece of clothing, (As I recall, it was a man's shirt) over into the outer tub, which locked the tub. After going over the edge, the shirt was literally spun into a tight ball between the tub and basket locking the basket. At that point, according to the customer, smoke was pouring from under the machine along with a burning rubber smell. We took off the cover, pulled the basket and agitator, removed the shirt, and put it back together. After replacing the burned up belts, it ran like a charm. If this is not the case, then I would replace the brake package. You will definitely need to get hold of a copy of a repair manual to study, before you start and to help you along the way if you have questions. Also a brake package wrench will help you as well if you can borrow one. I hope this helps. Dennis

Post# 58279 , Reply# 7 2/26/2005 at 02:26 (6,998 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *UPDATE* Thanks - You guys are great! First, here's a brief history of the symptoms in chronological order, but let me just say that when it comes to cleaning I'm obsessive, and I dare to say there aren't many washers out there half its age that are half as clean -- inside the cabinet and out -- which is one reason I can't see trashing it. The only part replaced on it so far was a $1.85 fill injector nozzle. About a year ago the washer began making a grinding noise like something needed greasing. I contacted Repairclinic.com and they diagnosed it as needing a new tub bearing ($52.55) and a washer tub stem seal (63.05). Well, aside from being a procrastinator, the noise wasn't really bad, and it seemed the more often I ran the washer, the less it made any noise and eventually it virtually disappeared. So, I assumed it was just suffering from a little 'rheumatoid arthritis' (you know, the kind that's relieved with exercise) and that it 'went into remission', so I never did anything about it. Then, a couple months ago was the free-spinning thing, etc., as described in my original post. NEW DEVELOPMENT -- Well, today was the first I touched it since that happened and after reading the posts I figured I would double-check things. Steve mentioned it needing a new pump, which I think may be because I said there was still a little water in the tub when it stopped, but that was only because I shut it down as soon as I smelled the rubber-burning smell, so the cycle hadn't finished. Anyway, I figured I couldn't do too much harm by turning it back on in the Damp Dry cycle and letting it finish emptying. I let it run for about 20 seconds, and much to my surprise, when I opened the lid the tub was spinning, albeit still freely. So, now what does this mean??? Is what had happened the other day symptomatic of a tub bearing dying, or is it related to the brake mechanism having died? It would seem to me that what caused it to seize and make the smell was that something broke away and got jammed (wherever) -- and then somehow freed itself after sitting for a while??? If I had any idea of what these parts looked like, I'm sure I could make a better guess! I'm intrigued by Dennis' post, though since things are freed up now, I don't know if that would still apply. I felt around the top of the tub and can't imagine how anything could get up there and get between the tubs, even if you really overloaded it. There's only about a half an inch space between the two, but I guess anything's possible. I called Repairclinic.com today and they informed me that they have all the parts I would need, which would be the two tub parts I mentioned above, the brake assembly ($73.55), plus they recommended replacing the two belts ($23.10 ea.). Steve mentioned "felt under the pedestal" which I assume are damper pads, so I would add them ($17.10). If this is all that I would need, it comes to a little over $250, and if I were to do it 'myself', I'd also need to buy the brake/bearing removal tool ($82.40) and a repair manual ($??) which they didn't have right now. Are there other things attached to these parts or whatever that could break while making the repairs that should be ordered at the same time? I know it's impossible to be exact, but does anyone have a rough idea as to how many hours an experienced repairman would need to do this versus a DIY-er? I agree with Peter that my Maytag repairman is just plain lazy. I have one other Maytag guy to call in my area, but I want to make sure I have all the facts straight before I call him (and beg!) BTW, no one disagreed with running it without the braking mechanism working and it not hurting anything else. So, is it ok? Thanks again, PAT

Post# 58288 , Reply# 8 2/26/2005 at 05:31 (6,998 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)
Checkrate/Likes *Maytag washer* Hi Pat and welcome aboard!I would recomend that you call an AUTHORISED Maytag repairman.One who is actualy a technician and knows the product inside and out.Usualy,someone who says it isn't worth fixing either wants to sell you one of their rebuilt,used ones or a new one they'll make profit on.The cost of repair may be a little steap but believe me,it's well worth the investment.Call 1-888-4-maytag ant see if they can set up a service call for you.

Post# 58300 , Reply# 9 2/26/2005 at 07:30 (6,998 days old) by Mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)
Checkrate/Likes *Poor old MAY* Hi Pat: Be real kind to her, as I mentioned, if you do it your self, Newton Iowa will have the repair manual. Yes Yes, laundromat says call 1-888-4-maytag, he is so right! Then you have a "no-strings" ............... to fix the 1977. You can buy all of the parts yourself, if money is an issue. The repair personell will will have them or order them, but at a greater expense to you. Lay it out on the line, to exactly what you want, require a written estimate of labor, time, and add'l parts needed. If the tub wrench is $80+'s, then thats a little steep for a one time fix. You would need to buy a large nice clean or have one built on your property,(a building) to start re-doing Maytag's LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let us know how you fair. I will email you and share my maytag pic with you! Steve in Pensacola Steve In pensacola

Post# 58329 , Reply# 10 2/26/2005 at 14:51 (6,998 days old) by Goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)
Checkrate/Likes It's possible that you just fried a set of belts.Easy fix there. If it is the brake assy.,I don't know of any way to get it off without the wrench,but I suppose something could be rigged up to work.IIRC,you have to remove the brake to get to the bearing.Maybe it's time to call ol' Mr Lonely. kennyGF

Post# 58335 , Reply# 11 2/26/2005 at 16:01 (6,997 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *Fried Belts???* Hey, Kenny - Thanks for the response. I'm just a dumb broad, so tell me -- can the belts be 'fried' without being actually broken??? I just reached under and felt them and they're still intact. But, I did notice that when I rubbed my hand along the belt to the tub, there was some black residue on it. BTW, this belt is pretty taut, especially compared to the one to the pump. Do you think this belt could have started slipping while it was spinning and caused that rubber-burning smell and then possibly stretched out due to friction, stopping the tub completely from spinning? (I did have a bit larger than usual load in at the time). Also, I mentioned earlier about being told that the free-spinning due to the bad brakes wouldn't cause any problems, but my logic doesn't buy this. What's your opinion??? PAT

Post# 58336 , Reply# 12 2/26/2005 at 16:09 (6,997 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *Pictures* Steve, I'd love to see your Maytag pictures. My husband is ready to trade ME in along with my Maytag! All reinforcements to the cause of the preservation of good 'ol things will be much appreciated! (Change my address to @yahoo.com). My packrat name didn't come out of the wind -- I collect just about everything, though old clocks are mostly where I apply my mechanical talents -- and test my patience! PAT

Post# 58339 , Reply# 13 2/26/2005 at 16:36 (6,997 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *Authorized Maytag Repairman* Hey, Laundromat & Steve -- I did call Maytag to get the guys in my area. Since I'm in the boonies, one of them was the guy I've been using, who BTW doesn't sell anything new or used, and the other is a guy that's about 30 miles away and who will probably use that as an excuse not to come out if/when I call him. Steve, this is one of the times I wish I lived back in 'the real world' like you where I had a choice of people and could dictate terms as you said. I know from experience with other service people, no one gives anything in writing! I feel so vulnerable saying money is not as issue, but weighing the price of a new washer & dryer (because I won't be happy without a matching set) and the loss of a faithful, dearly loved 27-yr. old family member and its companion :), what price is too much??? BTW, do you have a link to getting a repair manual? Is Newton Ohio a place or name? Thanks, PAT

Post# 58342 , Reply# 14 2/26/2005 at 17:29 (6,997 days old) by chrisfixit ()
Checkrate/Likes *Fried Belts* Hi Pat, Re the belts, yep it is possible for them to be ground a little when the machie jammed. this will leave a little worn section and cause a thudding noise when running. I read where the machines seized up then was ok after you left it a while and this would have been the cause for the rubber burning smell Not having and operating brake should not affect the machine unless it is kicking in intermittently and this caused the jamm and burning smell you experienced. Sounds as if it would be a fair proposition to repair your old faithfull as the rest of the unit is in excelent condition. it is a case of finding a repair person who is capable of this and willing. I am on your side by the way as from my limited experience the newew machines are not built to last and you would be looking at a number of repairs and a less robust unit Good luck with this one and I look forward to hearing the old girl is back to her former glory.

Post# 58356 , Reply# 15 2/26/2005 at 18:43 (6,997 days old) by Goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)
Checkrate/Likes Yep,the belts can be fried,without actually being broken. Is it possible that the washer might have had a heavy load in it,like a lot of jeans or similar? That would cause marginal belts to slip badly,and get the burning smell you had.The black residue is from the belt slipping,time to replace the set. It's easy enough to check the pump.With the belts off,make sure the pump pulley is turning freely,no binding or noise.I don't think a bad pump will cause the washer to stop spinning,but it would cause the belt slippage if it were locked up.Maytag belts are very easy to replace,about a 10 minute job at most.Feel free to ask any more questions. kennyGF

Post# 58367 , Reply# 16 2/26/2005 at 20:35 (6,997 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *Replacing belts* Hi, Kenny - That last load was a little heavier than I usually do -- not with jeans, but I decided to clean out my drawer of dishtowels and sort of kept feeding them in while the wash was going! I did keep pushing them down in the water, and although it didn't seem 'over' overloaded, under the circumstances it was probably enough to push it over the brink. You say the belts are easy to replace -- how so? I can get my hand under there and feel everything, but I can't see anything. I tend to ask dumb questions when I'm afraid of the answer, but do you have to tilt the washer back? If so, I only have 18 inches in front of it, so would that be enough room to work in? (In case you're wondering, I closed in a porch to expand my kitchen and of course didn't figure I'd ever have to work on my Maytags!) One other question: If I replace the belts, do you think I could continue using it without replacing the brake until I can find someone to help me repair it? PAT

Post# 58370 , Reply# 17 2/26/2005 at 21:11 (6,997 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)
Checkrate/Likes *maytag helical drive* Pat, Newton,Iowa is where Maytag's headquarters are, not Ohio.I think the first thing I would do is replace the old belts with a brand new set.As you replace the old ones,be sure you clean off the pullies and check underneath for any oil leaks.Some of the rubber on the belts may have left a resedue on the pullies.

Post# 58373 , Reply# 18 2/26/2005 at 22:17 (6,997 days old) by fixerman ()
Checkrate/Likes The belts are designed to slip since these Maytag machines have no clutch. They are fabric coated belts and if the fabric wears of they connot slip correctly. Replace the belts first. See what happens then. it is possible that the brake doesn't work but the rest of it will, however the grinding noise sounds like a bearing, either the tub bearing or the trans support bearing. To replace the belts one usually tips the machine enough to access the underside. Easy if you have the room.

Post# 58375 , Reply# 19 2/26/2005 at 23:13 (6,997 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *Maytag Headquarters* Laundromat, Thanks for the 'translation'. Gotta learn the lingo here! When I called Maytag they gave me 877-232-6770 to call for parts, but when I called the only real choice was to leave a message to return the call, which they never did. I guess I'll have to call the main number again and see what's up. I agree about replacing the belts. Just feeling them they seem dried up and there is residue from them, so I'll be sure to clean the pulleys. So far no sign of oil anywhere -- dare I say! I've been using Repairclinic.com for parts and will call them Monday. Their website and service are terrific. $23.10 seems like a lot for one belt, but then I'm probably lost in a time warp! The last belt I bought was for the dryer many, many moons ago, but I see they're not cheap now either. Anyway, thanks again for the info. PAT

Post# 58376 , Reply# 20 2/26/2005 at 23:27 (6,997 days old) by rickr (.)
Checkrate/Likes *Maytag belts* Hi Pat, Don't try to use any other type "v" belts on your machine.They cannot come from an auto parts store. They have to be the special genuine Maytag washer "v" belts.As someone stated before they are designed to act as a clutch and have a special coating on the belts to allow them to slip without undo wear or damage. Good luck,you can do it! Rick

Post# 58377 , Reply# 21 2/26/2005 at 23:53 (6,997 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *Replacing belts* Hi, Fixerman - Am I correct that by "trans" support bearing you're referring to the transmission? I mentioned up above that over a year ago when it was making noise Repairclinic.com said to replace the tub bearing (as you just said) and the washer tub stem seal, which I never did since the noise subsided. I doubt, though, that my 'Maytag Repairman' would have been any more enthusiastic about repairing my then 26 year old washer than he is now! Since I'm small, I don't think I'll have a problem changing the belts in the tight space I have to work in. I remember reading somewhere that you should have at least 24 inches in front of it, but I think 18" will be ok as long as I can tilt it enough that it doesn't come crashing down on top of me! I think replacing the belts and then to "see what happens" as you said is 'a plan'. In the meantime I'm going to try to get a repair manual so I can hopefully be on the same page with you guys. Thanks for your help. Please stay tuned here! PAT

Post# 58379 , Reply# 22 2/27/2005 at 03:43 (6,997 days old) by fixerman ()
Checkrate/Likes Space in front is no problem as long as you have room to use it. I would guess it probably is the tub bearing since you say the noise has subsided. The trans bearing is a roller bearing so it probably would not get any quieter, however I don't know why the tub bearing noise would subside.

Post# 58383 , Reply# 23 2/27/2005 at 05:33 (6,997 days old) by Goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)
Checkrate/Likes $23.10 is probably the price for the belt set.It takes 2 belts,and lately Maytag has been packaging them together.Check locally,you might find them cheaper. You're right,you have to be able to tip the machine back,to change them.Be sure to unplug the machine first,tip it back,you can use wood blocks or similar to hold it tipped.The motor is on a sliding type bracket,so no belt adjustment should be necessary.Remove the old,replace with the new,pretty simple. kennyGF

Post# 58448 , Reply# 24 2/27/2005 at 22:50 (6,996 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *Belts* Fixerman -- I think what you said coincides with what I read at Repairclinic.com: <<"On some washing machines, the clutch is just a combination of the drive belt slipping temporarily on a pulley and gradually tightening.">> As such, I think I may have messed up things by moving the belt by hand, which I did to see if anything was hanging up. I seem to remember the tub changing direction at one point, but I just passed over it at the time. Anyway, last night my curiosity got the better of me and I turned the washer on to see what it would do now that the tub is free. Well, after it filled, it spun instead of agitated. Please say this isn't a big screw-up! PAT

Post# 58618 , Reply# 25 3/1/2005 at 13:53 (6,995 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *Thanks, I owe you one!* Hey, Kenny - Thanks for your last post about the price of the belts. The $23.10 was for each belt, but I found they do have the set for $33.40. But, since I had surfed around before I called them back, I found a place called pcappliances.com who had the set for $24.95 with $5.75 shipping UPS ground. And, better yet, I just got them -- in less than 24 hours! Now, without your input I probably would have just gone ahead and ordered them at the $23.10, so you just saved me $21.25! Well, I know you'd rather have the money, but you know it's probably going to take my life savings to fix my machine. So, how about I give you first dibs on my circa 1925 Wayne Washer? (Maybe I should reconsider -- it might be easier for me to put that thing back in service than my Maytag!) PAT

Post# 58621 , Reply# 26 3/1/2005 at 14:55 (6,995 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)
Checkrate/Likes Pat, you didn't screw up. What you tell us is just another symptom of the helical drive problems you mentioned. The drive and brake use a big spring. Sounds like the spring is sprung.

Post# 58636 , Reply# 27 3/1/2005 at 17:00 (6,994 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *Oh, No!!!!!!!!!* Peter, are you saying that my fiddling with the drive belt as I explained up above couldn't have switched the spin and agitation actions? And, does that mean that replacing the belts at this point isn't going to do any good -- and that I have to add yet ANOTHER part to my list??? What's scary is that when I hear "drive" I think transmission. If that's the case, there's not much left to replace! Excuse me while I go in the corner and bawl! I'm beginning to agree with my Maytag repairman! PAT

Post# 58640 , Reply# 28 3/1/2005 at 17:20 (6,994 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)
Checkrate/Likes No. The belt only goes one way around the motor and drive pulley, and the way a Maytag works is turn in one direction you get spin, turn in the other direction you get agitation. In Maytag's case, the term "helical drive" actually does describe the method of transferring the rotary power of the motor to "drive" the transmission and the tub. When the drive turns in one direction, the drive shafts rides down the helix, tightening down a large spring onto the tub brake and driving the transmission. When the motor reverses, the drive shaft rides up the helix, releasing spring and the brake, causing the tub (and the transmission) to spin. When the motor stops running, there is no longer the drive force holding the drive up the helix, so the spring causes the drive to tighten down very quickly to stop all action. Like I said, it sounds like your brakes and/or helical drive needs some work. Maytag is THE favorite machine for coin laundry owners as they are relatively simple to work on (but you do need some muscles). You can do this repair if you put your mind to it. You need the book in the link below: CLICK HERE TO GO TO PeterH770's LINK on eBay

Post# 58665 , Reply# 29 3/1/2005 at 19:49 (6,994 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *Repair Manual* Peter, since the copyright date on this manual is 1974 and my A408 was purchased in Sept., 1977, will the info still apply to my machine or were there any changes made? I'm truly appreciative of your help and I'll post a reply to it as soon as I 'chew it up' some more, but I just didn't want to delay asking you about the manual. Thanks, PAT

Post# 58667 , Reply# 30 3/1/2005 at 19:55 (6,994 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *A forgotten detail* Peter -- A quick question: Should the agitator lift off fairly easily? If so and it doesn't, is that indicative of anything you just mentioned? PAT

Post# 58681 , Reply# 31 3/1/2005 at 22:06 (6,994 days old) by Mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)
Checkrate/Likes *The Maytag!* MS. Pat, thanks for the email. My machines were totaly restored by me. It is not that hard. At this point, I will tell you to sell these to one of myself or these passoinate gentlemen on here. Go buy a new one. The washer story for one problem does not last a whole 2 weeks. You have an old machine that needs total refurbish or just replace it. Love from the know how. Steve

Post# 58696 , Reply# 32 3/1/2005 at 23:32 (6,994 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes Steve - Two weeks??? I only posted my problem last Friday night and it's Tuesday night. That's 4 days! You must be working too hard! My initial reason for posting here was just to get some imput as to whether my model Maytag was worth fixing -- not to solicit repair help, though the responses have offered a lot of insight into what the problem may be. My REAL problem is that my limited (to say the least) knowledge of how a washer works has come from what I've researched online in the past few days and the posts that everyone has been so kind to make. This has become a challenge to me, and I'm determined to win. I have the mechanical aptitude, I can buy a manual, and I can 'borrow' the muscle! Again, good luck with your new project. PAT

Post# 58725 , Reply# 33 3/2/2005 at 09:13 (6,994 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)
Checkrate/Likes Pat, Don't sell. Fix. Maytag had this design in their domestic line from the mid 50's until today. Parts are readily available. Maytag wouldn't have kept this design around so long if it wasn't "dependable". Note that this design is the only design Maytag offers for coin-op use. That says plenty right there. The 1974 book will work just fine for any Maytag that uses the helical drive.

Post# 58760 , Reply# 34 3/2/2005 at 16:04 (6,993 days old) by kenmore1978 ()
Checkrate/Likes *Transmission* Speaking of drives, could someone explain the difference in operation between the Helical and Orbital drives? Was one better than the other? Did both types spin with the tub? When was the changeover? etc., etc.

Post# 58765 , Reply# 35 3/2/2005 at 16:57 (6,993 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)
Checkrate/Likes They are 2 completely different beasts. The problem is how the word "drive" is used in each case. Here is the deal: The Helical Drive drives the Orbital transmission. All Orbital Transmission Maytags utilize the same Helical Drive that Maytag had since the early days. Maytag changed from their tried-and-true transmission that we all love to the Orbital Transmission in the early 1990's. Orbital Transmission Maytags came to be known as "Dependable Care" shortly after they were introduced, so that consumers would not loose faith in Maytag for changing their design. The control panels say Dependable Care right on them. So today, when someone says they have a Dependable Care Maytag, you can be fairly sure that it has the orbital transmission. If someone says they have a Helical Drive Maytag, you can be fairly certain that 1) they are a bit smarter about their machine than the average bear, and 2) it has the old tried-and-true transmission.

Post# 58766 , Reply# 36 3/2/2005 at 17:02 (6,993 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)
Checkrate/Likes One more thing: The helical drive is in the bottom of the washer, just above the pulley and the washer base. The transmission is just below the outer tub. If you take the front panel off a Maytag, you can't see how it works, but you can see the difference between agitate and spin. Just keep your hands out of the cabinet when spin time comes!

Post# 58774 , Reply# 37 3/2/2005 at 17:39 (6,993 days old) by kenmore1978 ()
Checkrate/Likes *clarification* So, the "Helical Drive" exists in both types of washers. In that case what was the transmission called before Orbital transmissions came out?

Post# 58785 , Reply# 38 3/2/2005 at 17:59 (6,993 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)
Checkrate/Likes Pat,the Maytag agitator pulls straight up to remove. However,sometimes get stuck on the shaft,and are near impossible to remove.Not part of your problem. kennyGF

Post# 58793 , Reply# 39 3/2/2005 at 18:35 (6,993 days old) by westytoploader ()
Checkrate/Likes Isn't there a set screw on these as well that you might have to loosen? My Power-Fin has one.

Post# 58798 , Reply# 40 3/2/2005 at 19:09 (6,993 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *Update* Hi, Peter - I changed the belts today, and although they've never been changed in 27 years, they could pass for brand new. So, it was pretty apparent that no miracle was about to happen by changing them! Because I've been afraid of causing more damage to the situation, I've only turned it on that once when I said it spins and pumps in the wash cycle. Well, although it did the same thing now when I tried it, this time I also tried turning the setting to the spin cycle to see if would do the opposite and agitate. It didn't, but the tub spun in the opposite direction, which I'd assume means the motor's ok? So, the way you explained the helical drive, it sounds like you're right in saying the problem is with the drive shaft and/or this spring which you say pushes down on the brake. I'd guess this means replacing the transmission, but is that spring part of it, or is it part of the brake assembly? Looking at a parts list is a bit overwhelming when you've never seen the gutsy part of a washer. I hope a repair manual can clarify things. I'd like to get as close as I can to an accurate diagnosis so I can decide if it's something I can undertake -- or better yet, convince my Maytag guy to do! Thanks so much, Peter, for your help and expertise as well as to Kenny and everyone else here who has 'contributed to my cause!'. PAT

Post# 58820 , Reply# 41 3/2/2005 at 20:35 (6,993 days old) by Mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)
Checkrate/Likes *Pat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* Can we help, yes! However, adhere to what we have told you! I tried to help you, but you change your story? Are you an attorney? Get the manual, or get a repair man. I/we want you to repair your 77 CA408!!!!!! These machines or the MOST simple to work on. Yes the muscle has to come into play, however, it is not impossible. I have just finished restoring the two (2) that I bought only 4 days ago, no big deal, they are a breeze. Love Steve

Post# 58821 , Reply# 42 3/2/2005 at 20:39 (6,993 days old) by Mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)
Checkrate/Likes *Pat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* Can we help, yes! However, adhere to what we have told you! I tried to help you, but you change your story? Are you an attorney? Get the manual, or get a repair man. I/we want you to repair your 77 CA408!!!!!! These machines or the MOST simple to work on. Yes the muscle has to come into play, however, it is not impossible. I have just finished restoring the two (2) that I bought only 4 days ago, no big deal, they are a breeze. Love Steve

Post# 58833 , Reply# 43 3/2/2005 at 21:11 (6,993 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *Accountant, not an attorney!* Steve, I didn't 'change my story' -- it just kept evolving! I'd venture to say that if you and I were discussing fixing a vintage cuckoo, musical alarm clock, or the like that I'd sound as smart as you and you'd sound as dumb as me!!! :) Peter has enlightened me the most, although I see by his post above to kenmore1978 that I got it wrong about the "drive" thing being part of the transmission. PAT P.S. Be careful with the "love" stuff -- my husband might read this thread!

Post# 58840 , Reply# 44 3/2/2005 at 21:37 (6,993 days old) by Mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)
Checkrate/Likes *Debit and Credit* Me too! For Pharmacy! Steve

Post# 58848 , Reply# 45 3/2/2005 at 22:02 (6,993 days old) by Maytaged ()
Checkrate/Likes *spins when it should agitate...* PAT The reason your machine is spinning instead of agitating IS because the brake assembly is stuck. It is not a separate problem. This machine will never function properly untill you replace the brake package. The spring that was mentioned earlier is a part of the brake assembly. Not part of the transmission. You probably do not have a transmission problem at all. AUSTIN Maytag started using the agitator set screw somewhere in the early 80's. With the "12" series I believe. Pat's "08" series used a friction fit agitator.

Post# 58856 , Reply# 46 3/2/2005 at 22:53 (6,993 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *Not the trans* Hi, Ed - That's what I've been thinking after re-reading Peter's posts. Well, that puts me back to square one as far as my 'lazy Maytag repairman' is concerned; this is where we started, with him telling me the brake was shot but that I could go on using the machine "without any problems". So much for that one! I know I should just be patient and wait for the manual for my answers, but does replacing the brake mechanism involve taking the whole thing apart -- tub, etc. -- or do you do it from the bottom? PAT

Post# 58889 , Reply# 47 3/3/2005 at 06:27 (6,993 days old) by Maytaged ()
Checkrate/Likes *replacing the brake . . .* Pat The brake assembly is removed and replaced from underneath the machine. A fairly simple job (with the brake removal tool) but with only 18" in front of the machine it might be a bit more challenging. Possibly your repairman isn't so much lazy as he is afraid of working on a machine in such a tight space. But if you could get to the belts you could probably get to the brake. BTW, the brake assembly is the part underneath the big center pulley that you put the belt on. ED

Post# 58898 , Reply# 48 3/3/2005 at 09:28 (6,993 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)
Checkrate/Likes Pat, Where in upstate NY are you? Did you buy the Repair-Master book I linked you to? Now that you know (roughly) what is wrong, have you tried calling other repairmen to see if someone is more enthusiastic about repairing the machine?

Post# 58905 , Reply# 49 3/3/2005 at 10:27 (6,993 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)
Checkrate/Likes Another Repair-Master: CLICK HERE TO GO TO PeterH770's LINK on eBay

Post# 58941 , Reply# 50 3/3/2005 at 17:42 (6,992 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)
Checkrate/Likes Pat,replacing the brake mechanism isn't a bad job,but one that should be done by someone with some knowledge.Having the right tool is paramount to doing it right.Try another servicer.And don't give up on your Maytag! kennyGF

Post# 58970 , Reply# 51 3/3/2005 at 21:29 (6,992 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes *Brake assembly* Ed & Peter - Well, making a repair that doesn't involve lifting out the tub sounds appealing! My Maytag guy never looked at my washer, so he doesn't even know it's in a tight spot; he just thumbs-downed it, giving it his 'pandora's box' diagnosis based on its age. My kitchen is large and I can drag it out of the corner to work on it. I have to first move out a fully-loaded 4-drawer file and then my dryer to get to it, but I'll have plenty of room to work. I didn't want to do that until I was reasonably sure it doesn't have to keep on moving right out the door! This leads me to what I'm sure everyone hopes is my last question -- do you think the noise that started a year ago was due to this spring breaking down OR the tub bearing (which was diagnosed by repairclinic.com when the noise was the only issue)? To recap, it started during the agitation (no noise on spinning), and would go away by the rinse cycle. It had just about disappeared completely during the past year, but recently it started up again, though not as bad as it had been initially. Then, the hang-up. I guess since replacing the tub bearing would mean working on the other end of things, it wouldn't make any difference to replace the brake and then see if there still was noise, although moving it back in place and then out again will be a real bummer. The way you explained this helical thing, my money is on the brake/spring being the only problem - wishful thinking aside! If you guys concur, I might even be able to persuade a Maytag guy to do the job - wishful thinking NOT aside! Ed, I look out my window at PA and the Delaware River. Any chance you're the Maytag guy in Wayne County? :) Peter, I bought a different book (per the link) since it said 08's. But, I was thinking of buying the one you posted too so I could be twice as knowledgable! :) PAT CLICK HERE TO GO TO patpackrat's LINK on eBay

Post# 59038 , Reply# 52 3/4/2005 at 18:16 (6,991 days old) by doityrselfguy ()
Checkrate/Likes Pat, I've been watching this post and am keeping my fingers crossed for you! I'm working on a Maytag A208 model, which has a lot of similarities to yours. I suggest you save your machine. I've found that almost all parts are available, and with the right repair master, the procedures are simple and the parts are laid out very logically. Good luck! Pete

Post# 59197 , Reply# 53 3/6/2005 at 01:32 (6,990 days old) by patpackrat ()
Checkrate/Likes Thanks, Pete, for the encouraging words. I got the manual today, and the repair info seems understandable enough. But, maybe it's because it's from Maytag and says it's "for experienced service personnel" that it doesn't have much troubleshooting. My symptoms aren't listed, so I bought a Repair Master manual today as well as another Maytag one that's just for troubleshooting. Like I said, before I can even think about approaching anyone around here for help, I'm going to have to pretty much be able to show them in writing exactly what's wrong. I know; lots 'o luck! PAT

Post# 59387 , Reply# 54 3/7/2005 at 21:34 (6,988 days old) by Mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)
Checkrate/Likes *Is it fixed?* Hey Pat: Just wondering if you are done now? Hope all went well if so. Ok so let us know what your decision and outcome(s) may be! Steve

Post# 59490 , Reply# 55 3/8/2005 at 20:44 (6,987 days old) by alr2903 (TN)
Checkrate/Likes *Pat I have been following the story...* Could you find a machine that works and swap the cabinets. If you have room maybe you could even keep the old machine guts.. Till one of these guys that knows how to fix that son of a gun could work something out with you... At least you would be able to wash, and your things would match. I hope you already have it fixed. But if you have to keep buying stuff your soon going to be at the $ amt of a good used machine. As Tight as Your laundry area sounds maybe you could just change the top and front? Just a thought. alr2903.

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