Thread Number: 15341
HE toploader suggestions? |
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Post# 258488   1/7/2008 at 21:11 (5,925 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)   |   | |
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My best friend's good old Helical Maytag has sadly finally given up! It was a hard farm worker that raised many kids and even kept washing until the last (my best friend) was a senior in high school! It seems that the bearings are going, the suds diverter valve leaks tremendously, and the machine has some overflowing problems! Naturally, they came to me asking what they should buy on a somewhat tight budget. They have some rather extreme requirements however. Their house is a little over 125 years old and the sewage system consists of an underground water closet that cannot take very much water at a time. When they washed with their Maytag, they used the Suds Saver function for EVERY load, they used a tub of water to wash for a whole day starting with the whites and finishing with the muddy jeans! Because of their water closet system, they cannot dump large amounts of water down the drain at a time, even with the suds saver function, they'd have to wait 20 minutes between loads so that the water closet could cath up! They have 4 requirements: 1) low water usage 2) top load (her mom has some serious knee problems and she doesnt want the washer to be up high) 3) price 4) capacity Naturally, these are very common requirements, but the water usage needs to be kept to a very strict minimum. Of the current HE toploaders, which has the highest quality while using the LEAST amount of water possible? I personally fear that even if the washer they get uses 1/2 or 1/3 the amount of water that their Mayatg did, it still might overload their water system simply due to the increase in capacity. I read somewhere that their have been some chnages in the way the GE Harmony washes such as slower agitation... Is this true? I'm also thinking the Whirlpool Cabrio is a possibility simply because I can get a pretty good deal one, but doesn't this machine have cycles in which it fills up completely? I know a lot of these machines offer options to avoid a regular deep rinse such as simply spray rinsing or saturating the clothes then spinning and repeating. However, they are die hard liquid Downy users and will not use dryer sheets! Thanks for any help!!! |
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Post# 258494 , Reply# 1   1/7/2008 at 21:19 (5,925 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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Wow! Sounds like water usage and accessibility are the two main concerns. I say get a front-loader with an "excellent" water usage rating in Consumer Reports and put it on a pedestal for loading without much stooping. None of the HE top-loaders use as little water as some of the newest front-loaders. |
Post# 258496 , Reply# 2   1/7/2008 at 21:23 (5,925 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)   |   | |
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I had recently seen a T/L GE (perhaps a hydro-wave) with an "Energy Star" label. So I immediately thought- SPRAY RINSES ONLY. YUP!!!! There is a SOFTENER cycle with a full rinse option, and another option with TWO deep rinses. BUT TO GET THE ENERGY-STAR LABEL, NO DEEP RINSE ON THE REGULAR CYCLE! Why won't the woman consider a front-loader on a pedestal? There is a frigidaire front-loader that is around $650. Only two rinses (At least on the one with a radio-dial-look jog-dial and a low water level. It may work, if she can get past the top loading requirement. |
Post# 258500 , Reply# 3   1/7/2008 at 21:37 (5,925 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)   |   | |
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She's been asking me for years what to buy and I keep suggesting frontload washers but she wont have it! She's hell bent on getting a toploader and a high efficiency toploader at that now that she has seen commercials for them! Besides that, I'm pretty sure she fears the FL machine will leak at the door seal per her daughter's experience with laundromat machines sadly... I'll do my best, but in the meantime if I can't convince her, I'm guessing the Cabrio is the likely choice unless I can find a deal on an Aquasmart...
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Post# 258527 , Reply# 4   1/7/2008 at 23:15 (5,925 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Jamie, you know I have some physical challenges. Write me at the email address in my profile if ya'd like. I'd like to understand your friend's mom's knee problem. Despite everything, I still enjoy my front loader. My Frigidaire came on a pedestal, Steve 1/18 found this one with the pedestal on it alredy. I have to admit, I like it much betterr than if it were on the floor. I now wish my Maytag Dependable Care dryer was raised some. I find it more challenging to get stuff out of the dryer now than the washer. But, there are times for me even dealing with the waher on it's pedestal is a bit much, particularly if I'm really tired. I simply sit on a stool that puts me about level with the waher opening and load & unload it tht way. Bob
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Post# 258528 , Reply# 5   1/7/2008 at 23:17 (5,925 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 258625 , Reply# 7   1/8/2008 at 12:16 (5,924 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)   |   | |
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I would recomend the new Amana set (NFV7200TW)and (NED7200TW)The washer is huge in capacity but uses very little water and energy.The Home Depot has them for $599/washer and $549 /electric dryer.The washer is huge(3.8 cu ft) and the dryer is too (7.0 cu ft)They have the risers/drawers available to raise the unit up 15 inches.and free delivery/haul away.If you want to see them you can go to H.D's website(homedepot.com) or Amana's website(amana.com)go to washer dryer and they have pictures of them as well as dementions.
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Post# 258678 , Reply# 9   1/8/2008 at 17:53 (5,924 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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I agree that a FL machine is the best option if water use is an issue. However, I'd wager that even the most expensive new FL machine on the market will likely require more service and maintenance than their Maytag ever did and still won't likely last as long. That's just the nature of new "durable" goods these days. Your friends need to understand this going into their purchase, as the water closet issue is one they can control for free, unlike a component of a complex FL machine failing.
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Post# 258682 , Reply# 10   1/8/2008 at 18:09 (5,924 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)   |   | |
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Post# 258756 , Reply# 11   1/9/2008 at 03:26 (5,923 days old) by twinniefan (Sydney Australia)   |   | |
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Hi Jamie, Would your friends consider a twin-tub?,as it would help onsiderably with water saving as her mom could just spin the wash water back into the washtub and even if she didn't she would only be spinning a small amount of water out each load anyway,which would not overload the plumbing and when finished they could just drain the washtub gradually. i.e. empty some out wait awhile and empty out some more until finished. Hope this helps you. Steve. |
Post# 258768 , Reply# 12   1/9/2008 at 06:18 (5,923 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)   |   | |
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So, what is the problem with HE top loaders? |
Post# 258769 , Reply# 13   1/9/2008 at 06:30 (5,923 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)   |   | |
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Post# 258809 , Reply# 14   1/9/2008 at 11:24 (5,923 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Post# 258852 , Reply# 15   1/9/2008 at 14:50 (5,923 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)   |   | |
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I highly doubt they'd go for a twin tub machine, they simply just dont have time! For the past couple weeks they've been going to the laundromat since the Maytag is dead and they end up using 8 or 9 triple load Milnors(35lb capacity per washer) And that's going once a week! Both of my best friend's parents work dawn to dusk on the farm and my friend simply doesnt have time either! They need to be able to throw a load in and come back in an hour to transfer. Besides, I have yet to see a twin tub in the US that rivals capacity of any automatic washer here...
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Post# 258865 , Reply# 16   1/9/2008 at 16:05 (5,923 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Post# 258919 , Reply# 19   1/9/2008 at 20:15 (5,923 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Can be just as effective as "deep" rinses, if carried out properly. While the operation is manual, using my Hoover TT "spin rinse" am here to tell you after a series of rinses items are truly well rinsed. I know this because on the odd time I put items back into the wash tub with fresh cold water for a deep rinse, the water is clear, even after several minutes of items being thrashed though the water by the Hoover's impeller. The commercial twin tub, made and sold by a divison of Alliance laundry does nothing by spray rinses, and gives good results as well. Now then, now then, now then.. what helps with this sort of rinsing is to use the proper amounts of good detergent designed to rinse clean. Too much of a sudsy product like Tide, is bound to cause problems. Fabric softeners by the way, aren't such a huge deal as one might think, given the huge numbers of dryer sheets consumed in North America, it seems people got tired of waiting for the rinse cycle long ago. As for water saving with a twin tub, that really only comes into play if one reuses wash water, something likely to illict an "ewwwwwwww" from many of today's appliance users. L. |
Post# 258930 , Reply# 20   1/9/2008 at 21:10 (5,923 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)   |   | |
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~Can be just as effective as "deep" rinses, if carried out properly ..........and "IF" is the biggest word in he English language! I personally would love to see some spray rinses in front-loaders, but from what I have heard the construction of same differs from T/L-ers and spray rinses may atually stir up foam that is outside the cylinder. |
Post# 258933 , Reply# 21   1/9/2008 at 21:30 (5,923 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)   |   | |
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...it all comes down to semantics. You should have used 'when' instead of 'if'. Cheers |
Post# 258944 , Reply# 22   1/9/2008 at 22:26 (5,923 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)   |   | |
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Q: If spray rinses are jsut as good as deep rinses why wasn't this method used decades ago? A: There are limitations as to HOW and WHEN spray rinses are just as effective. Overall maybe not as effective, or desirable. I'm thinking that it is jsut not possible to saturate every squre inch of clothing with a spray rinse. In a spinning tub segments are folded and doubled over themselves. |
Post# 258945 , Reply# 23   1/9/2008 at 22:39 (5,923 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Well spray rinses wouldn't work that well with soap as the primary detergent for one thing. Unless soap was well mixed with wash water before laundry added, globs of the stuff would stick to fabric and get caught up in folds. For spray rinses to be a true replacement for deep rinses, several factors must be taken into account: First tub must slow down enough for water to actually penetrate laundry, rather than merely get bounced off wash that is being whizzed too fast. The above means the washer is going to need a pretty powerful motor to handle spinning several heavy wet rinse/spin cycles without over heating. Water must be directed towards laundry at proper angles and in proper form. The aforementioned Unimac twin tubs use a diffuser from a center post (not unlike the old Easy Twin Tubs, no?), to spray laundry with a mist of water, which penetrates laundry faster and better, allowing for saturation. Not withstanding all of the above, some items/loads are best handled with a traditional rinse cycle. If find while most wash loads of mixed items or single items like lightweight bed sheets are fine for spray rinse in the Hoover, heavy items like a duvet cover are best rinsed in the tub. Of course the hold housewife trick was to rearranged large heavy items after several spray rinses, then do several more. Would certianly use normal rinses where chlorine bleach was used as well. With today's technology, adding some sort of water sensor to washing machines,to watch for a clean rinse would eliminate the guess work out of spray rinses. Machine could simply be programmed to rinse until a desired turbidity/clarity level of water was achieved. L. |
Post# 258957 , Reply# 24   1/10/2008 at 00:41 (5,923 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 259019 , Reply# 27   1/10/2008 at 10:41 (5,922 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Post# 259021 , Reply# 28   1/10/2008 at 10:58 (5,922 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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If I counted that right, the Oasis on YouTube does four shower rinses and then a final deep rinse with softener when 2nd Rinse is selected. Otherwise, I guess, I'll do two deep rinses. Jon's Playlist: Towels CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK |
Post# 259022 , Reply# 29   1/10/2008 at 11:16 (5,922 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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Also, if you look at the AquaSmart manual, it'll tell you how much water it uses on High Efficiency mode: Load Size ... High Efficiency Mode 15.5 lb (7 kg) ... 22 G (82 L) 11 lb (5 kg) ... 18 G (69 L) 7 lb (3 kg) ... 16 G (60 L) 2 lb (1 kg) ... 14 G (54 L) The original version from New Zealand, interstingly, has a larger capacity: Load Size .. High Efficiency .. Conventional 8 kg.... 84 L ..... 165 L 5 kg.... 69 L ..... 147 L 3 kg.... 60 L ..... 123 L 1 kg.... 54 L ..... 88 L The older version of the U.S. AquaSmart manual stated that the washer would automatically add softener, if the Softener Rinse option (deep final rinse) was selected. There was no bleach dispenser, rather a Bleach option that would alert the user to manually bleach add to the wash cycle by pausing and beeping. The new manual has is reversed (almost). Now, the FS dispenser is for bleach, there is a Bleach option to automatically add bleach to the wash - but there is nothing to add softener. Dryer sheets is what F&P recommend to use. |
Post# 259039 , Reply# 30   1/10/2008 at 15:08 (5,922 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Calypsos do a lot of rinsing and softener can always be used, not quite comparable as an example of shower rinsing compared to the new HE machines. My F&P GWL08 and IWL12 can do shower rinses of course, and have options to adjust how much water is used. IWL12 has six rinse options (Spray/Deep, Single Deep, Double Deep, Shower, Shower Save Water AAA, Shower Eco AAAA). I've tried shower rinse a few times, works well. Softener can't be used. The saturation sprays are much longer than what I see on the Oasis videos and the pump may run simultaneously for a flush-rinse. Hmm, I wonder if a wash plate would retrofit to an IWL12? |
Post# 259118 , Reply# 31   1/10/2008 at 20:14 (5,922 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT)   |   | |
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Post# 259120 , Reply# 32   1/10/2008 at 20:15 (5,922 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT)   |   | |
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Post# 259815 , Reply# 35   1/14/2008 at 14:48 (5,918 days old) by funguy10 ()   |   | |
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Esecially not for those who are not Do-It-Yourselfers. |
Post# 259948 , Reply# 36   1/15/2008 at 02:28 (5,917 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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All rinsing is a function of dilution. Doesn't matter if one sprays, wipes down, immerses or whatever in clean water, long as the process is done correctly to dilute detergents,soils and muck out of laundry, each method has it's virtues. What would help matters greatly is if all Amercian laundry products were clean rinsing. Products like Tide are for the most part designed for top loading washing and full tub "deep rinsing" in mind. Add to this many consumers use way too much laundry detergent, then to top things off bung lots of other "boosters" in as well, means rinsing is going to be difficult without one or perhaps more deep rinses. Spray rinses would work, but not many top loaders besides F&P are designed to give good results on that front. L. |