Thread Number: 15594
Kenmore Oasis / Maytag Bravos / Whirlpool Cabrio
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Post# 262035   1/28/2008 at 14:06 (5,904 days old) by brant_ix (Westford, MA)        

brant_ix's profile picture
Hello All...

Does anyone have any of these washers? Either with the wash plate or the (preferably) with the Center Agitator?

I looked on Consumer Reports and the new models are highly rated by them, but it appears to be a love-hate relationship from the conumers side.

I am interested in getting one, but not 100% convinced yet.
Can anyone on hear share their experience of having one? What they love about it? What they hate about it? And if you have one of these models with the agitator, would you be able to put up a video on youtube or send over the file?

OR if you know of any Laundromat in Massachusetts where I can do a load of laundry and experience this for myself!?!

This would be GREATLY appreciated and help me to get thru a bout of anxiety in choosing another poor washer...

Thanks!
~Brant





Post# 262037 , Reply# 1   1/28/2008 at 14:33 (5,904 days old) by lulundave ()        

Hi Brant,

I have the Cabrio agi. I have had it for 9 months. So far it has been an ok washer.

What I like about it...it holds a very big load easily. I can do 11 towels easily. I can do 7 pair of mens jeans in 1 load. I like that it senses the right amount of water to use. I also like that you can set your own level of water too.It cleans well.I get a pretty good hot wash. It is hot enough to cause the display to be steamy and my white are white.This machine uses standard detergent.

What I don't like...I can't bypass the lid lock (even with the help of forum friends) I get a beeping and a LOC code on my display.I like to see the washer in action! I also don't like how it leaked once during a heavy wash of jeans.I suspect it was an unbalanced load but I am not entirely sure as I went down to the laundry room once the cycle was complete. There was quite a bit of water and it was sudsy. I have done MANY loads since then and there has been no problem.I also wonder about it's longevity.

I can comment on the Cabrio HE with impeller also as I had it for 6 months then was allowed to trade it in for the Cabrio agi.

My Cabrio HE didn't clean well. Twisted clothes into a tight mess. Set in wrinkles permanently. Sometimes didn't even wet the clothes totally! Didn't have nearly enough turn over - thanks to the see through lid!! In all it was a VERY poor experience for me.

Having said all that. If I could do it all over again I would have saved myself the headache and just bought a standard Inglis super capacity washer and dryer. Here in Canada the set sells for around $700.00. My Cabrio agi washer and dryer sold for $1600.00. I could have had a decent front loader for that price or I could have $1000.00 bucks in my pocket.

Hope this helps you in your decision.


Post# 262038 , Reply# 2   1/28/2008 at 14:33 (5,904 days old) by mrx ()        

From what I've seen of them online, I can't understand how they couldn't be very hard on clothes.

In a front loader, the clothes tumble and are not forced to move against a surface.

In a traditional top loader, the clothes are sloshed about in a lot of water.

These machines seem to push them around on the wash plate / agitator. To me this looks like a recipe for damaged / worn fabric.


Of those three wash actions, I'd go for the front loader to avoid unnecessary friction!


Post# 262039 , Reply# 3   1/28/2008 at 14:40 (5,904 days old) by funguy10 ()        

I have the Kenmore Oasis with agitator and Solid Lid. We got it last May when our Kenmore DD Top-Loader died after only 4 years. The machine cleans real well and is nice and quiet. It does make sounds different from a normal Top-Loader since it does not have a transmission. It has the Total Care Flex agitator which despite reviews I've seen that say it twists clothes actually does a better job of cleaning them than the Triple-Action Agitator in the Kenmore DD. The only thing I don't like about the machine is that the lid is locked during the entire cycle, including filling. I've heard though, that it is easy to disable the lid lock with a magnet. Once I can find out how to make my camcorder download to my computer, I will video a full cycle.

Post# 262040 , Reply# 4   1/28/2008 at 14:47 (5,904 days old) by hilovane (Columbus OH)        

There's a video of the washplate-type action on YouTube. Frankly, it reminds me of a breadmaker kneading dough!

Post# 262061 , Reply# 5   1/28/2008 at 17:00 (5,904 days old) by brant_ix (Westford, MA)        
I've looked on You Tube...

brant_ix's profile picture
...and have been watching some clips of the Oasis HE with the wash plate, and there definetly appears to be some differentiation on teh amount of water. One of them had a number of towels and they were fully submerged. Another had a full load of clothes that had poor turn over.

There is also a posting of the Whirlpool Cabrio with Agitator, but whoever recorded it, did it with the lights off and the lid closed so I can't see a damn thing!!

OH before I forget, do these washers also have Neutral Drain?

Thanks for your input thus far gang! I would LOVE to see the Agitator in Action on those! I noticed a clip on YouTube as well on how to get the magnet trick to work. I think I found it by putting in OASIS Washer or Kenmore OASIS. Good Luck!

Any other comments or experiences will be Valuably Read!!


Post# 262065 , Reply# 6   1/28/2008 at 17:12 (5,904 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Unless you have an issue which doesn't permit it, I'd opt for a front-loading washer. They clean very well, are energy and water efficient and don't cause excess wrinkling. It's a tried-and-true format, whereas the top-loading impellers haven't much of a track record, yet.

And every time I watch an impeller machine slogging away on a large load of clothes, it makes me cringe. I can understand why people say they tangle and wrinkle clothes.

Just a thought...


Post# 262068 , Reply# 7   1/28/2008 at 17:25 (5,904 days old) by easyspindry (Winston-Salem, NC)        
Fisher & Paykel

I have the F&P set which is the one that got all these machines started -- the Cabrio, etc. It has the agitator. I've had it about 3 years -- the washer and the top load dryer -- and they have given no problems whatsoever.

I did learn how to fool the lid lock and enjoy watching the action. The amount of action is determined by the machine. A heavy load of jeans and/or towels will produce a "heavy" wash. And, MAN, when that happens you better stand back because that agitator will raise hell as it strokes nearly 360 degrees and does it with a bunch of force.

A lighter load will produce a "softer" stroke. Sometimes it's a fairly short stroke and sometimes it's a complete 360, depending on what type of fabric the machine senses.

The machine also senses the amount of water it needs for a particular load, but it is easily set manually if you prefer.

The drain is neutral.

The spin is 1000 rpm.

The noise is average.

There is no transmission because they use a DC motor, and it is the motor itself that reverses and makes the agitator stroke.

My only complaint so far is the amount of lint that gets on my dark socks. I think the next time I change machines, I will probably go back to a front load -- excellent cleaning, quiet operation, water and detergent efficient, and NO LINT. Also, depending on the machine, fast spin for less time in the dryer.

I don't have a video cam, so can't send you any moving pictures.

Oh, and each and every time that I have used the machine, the amount of water that it decides to use agrees with what my choice would have been. But, if you want to change the water level, it's easy to do so.

I haven't figured out yet whether or not you can manually change the degree or strengthof the agitator stroke.

Hope this helps -- probably confuses you more. Give front load a lot of thought.

Any questions, my e-mail is jg456@aol.com and I also check out these forums regularly. Let me know what you decide.

By the way, the top load dryer is the best dryer I've ever had. And by it being top load, i tmakes no difference which side of the washer the dryer is on.

Jerry Gay


Post# 262071 , Reply# 8   1/28/2008 at 17:32 (5,904 days old) by brant_ix (Westford, MA)        
I've thought about a front loader...

brant_ix's profile picture
... and if I DID, I'd go with the Maytag Epic 9700.
It ranked very good on Consumer Reports and is the only Front Loader to have a near 5*Star rating by Users both there and at Sears. Since it's the old KitchenAid, it has a good history!

I had a Front Loader at my condo and was really disappointed with it... It never cleaned laundry that well and always felt like a chore. I can't explain it, but I have SO MUCH FUN when I'm doing my laundry with a Top Loader!


Post# 262072 , Reply# 9   1/28/2008 at 17:41 (5,904 days old) by funguy10 ()        
OH before I forget, do these washers also have Neutral Drain

Yes they do. When I stand at the Oasis as it drains, all I hear is a quiet hum and a urination sound as the water drains out. It does go "thunk" every few seconds which, I think, is the agitator pulsing to check if the water is all drained out before it starts the spray-rinsing.

Post# 262084 , Reply# 10   1/28/2008 at 18:52 (5,904 days old) by appnut (TX)        
I haven't figured out yet whether or not you can manuall

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Jerry, adjusting soil level will also impact agitation patterns, even after the original pattern has been set. I've done that With Glenn's and it is a bit noticeable when ya change the level.

Post# 262121 , Reply# 11   1/28/2008 at 22:42 (5,904 days old) by jonv112 ()        
there definetly appears to be some differentiation on teh am

Heh, that was my bad. It was on Sheets/Towels, so it skips the load sensing phase and goes straight to filling the tub with water until the resistance on the washplate decreases to a point. It automatically fills with more water after the lid has been opened, even though more towels may not have been added. The trick on the lock failed a couple of times so thats why it filled with more water. There shouldn't have been as much water as there was in that cycle.

I've had the machine for almost 2 years with almost no problems. The clothes I wear and wash are pretty expensive to some people, but they come out clean, and the wrinkles are dealt with in the dryer, or most of the time cease to exist. My polos have velvet taping on the neck and seams, and when my dad did the laundry a while ago some of the velvet would come out in each wash. But, after I took over my laundry all of my clothes look just as good as they were new, and the velvet lining on my newer polos is perfect.

It just goes to show how many of the complaints that these machines get can easily come from user error. You can't just dump in the whole basket of clothes, add detergent and walk away expecting a perfect load in the end. You would never just pile up dishes in the dishwasher expecting all of them to be clean; you have to arrange the dishes so that the water from the jets contacts them all, and the dishes are tilted so that they dry out properly. In this washer, I make sure that all of the buttons on my shirts are buttoned, collars popped on polos, zippers are zipped up, and I make sure that everything is loaded properly for efficient turnover and spinning, which is why I have no problems with the way it cleans or how my clothes turn out.


Post# 262124 , Reply# 12   1/28/2008 at 23:58 (5,904 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        
Neutral Drain

dadoes's profile picture
Urination sound?? Eewwwhttp://www.

There probably isn't any "thunking" until the pressure sensor determines that the water is pretty much all out. And it's not the agitator exactly that "thunks," it's the drive motor (of course, the agitator is bolted directly to the drive shaft) which pulses clockwise and counterclockwise to determine via inertia if the basket has settled back onto the drive coupler (and to help it do so).


Post# 262153 , Reply# 13   1/29/2008 at 09:07 (5,903 days old) by brant_ix (Westford, MA)        
So much to take into consideration...

brant_ix's profile picture
They just don't make them like they used to anymore...
And at the same time, I want to at least make an attempt to be Green/Eco-friendly too...


Post# 262198 , Reply# 14   1/29/2008 at 16:07 (5,903 days old) by retro-man (- boston,ma)        

Well then Brant the front loaders are the way to go. I have had mine for 8 years now with no problems. I do between 10-20 loads a week, sometimes every other week. Have the Maytag Neptunes and love them.
Jon


Post# 262218 , Reply# 15   1/29/2008 at 19:42 (5,903 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Nashua!

launderess's profile picture
Just saw an interesing clip on TV last night about the annual air show held there. Lots of WWII planes and military stuff.

L.


Post# 262311 , Reply# 16   1/30/2008 at 14:15 (5,902 days old) by laundramatt (Youngstown, Ohio)        
The amount of action is determined by the machine.

Exactly how does the F+P do this?? How does it sense load size? By the amount of resistance to the agitation? Or does it have some sort of scale attached to the basket that weighs the load?

Is there a way to make it think it's washing a full load of sheets when there is actually nothing in there???


Post# 262319 , Reply# 17   1/30/2008 at 15:49 (5,902 days old) by bobbyd32l ()        

The machine briefly agitates and measures resistance, then determines water level. I own a Cabrio HE, and have a few video's floating around google

Post# 262320 , Reply# 18   1/30/2008 at 16:08 (5,902 days old) by retro-man (- boston,ma)        
Launderess

Yes we have an aviation college here. The name is Daniel Webster College. Many a pilot and faa employees have passed through those doors. We have the most incredible planes that take off and land here. From all vintages and sizes. They do have a yearly plane "museum" that comes in, plus tours and planes taking off and landing all weekend. Very good air shows. I graduated from there and had my license years ago but didn't keep it up. Oh well decided to go in a different direction.
Jon


Post# 262333 , Reply# 19   1/30/2008 at 17:29 (5,902 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
Exactly how does the F+P do this?? How does it sense load size? By the amount of resistance to the agitation? Or does it have some sort of scale attached to the basket that weighs the load?

Is there a way to make it think it's washing a full load of sheets when there is actually nothing in there???
Water level sensing and fabric/agitation sensing are two separate processes and features. The "base" EcoSmart (GWL) agitator model has water level sensing, but not fabric sensing (although agitation does vary a little within a cycle according to the water level). The Intuitive (IWL) models add fabric sensing.

My older GWL08 doesn't have fabric sensing per se, but the agitation does vary a little *during* the wash cycle in response to how the load moves.

Water level sensing is a two-step process. First, the load is weighed by way of the machine sensing when the basket has floated. A dome under the inner basket traps air when the machine fills, which causes it to float upward about 3/8" to disengage from the drive coupler. The machine senses this by rotating the basket at 25 RPM during fill, and pulsing the motor every few seconds to check rotational resistance and inertia. A heavier/larger saturated load counteracts the flotation effect resulting in a higher fill. Once the basket has floated, fill continues to the next discrete water level (there are five for agitator-type machines). At that point, a series of agitation strokes checks resistance of the load against the agitator fins with whatever algorithms the engineers have programmed. If the computations don't satisfy the controller, it fills to the next level and tests again.

Fabric sensing on the IWL models occurs after water level sensing is complete and is via a different pattern of agitation strokes, again checking resistance of the load against the agitator fins and computing an agitation speed based on the programmed algorithms. IWL models don't have a selection of typical cycles -- Heavy, Regular, Delicate, etc. Instead, there's one basic cycle, a choice of soil level, and several modifiers (Handwash, Creasables, Woolens), along with the usual other options for temperature, water level and so forth. For a "normal" load, the user presses Power, selects a soil level, other modifiers if desired, and Start. Soil level coupled with fabric sensing determines the agitation speed and wash time. Higher agitation speeds result in longer agitation times for the same soil level. A load of jeans at normal soil with Firm agitation runs for a longer wash time than a load of casuals at normal soil with Medium agitation.

Loading methods can have an effect. Wrapping large or heavy items such as sheets, blankets, or jeans around the agitator tends to increase resistance and may result in a higher water level and/or stronger agitation. On the other hand a lightweight but large item such as an acrylic thermal blanket or mattress cover that doesn't have much saturation weight may result in a low water level and/or light agitation.

Water level can be set manually to any of the five levels, so no tricks are necessary. However, with auto-sensing, holding the basket down during water level sensing so it fills higher before floating, and/or grabbing the agitator during the test strokes would simulate a load being present when one isn't.


Post# 262792 , Reply# 20   2/1/2008 at 13:50 (5,900 days old) by laundramatt (Youngstown, Ohio)        

Thanks very much DADoES.

You are the last word on these washers.

By the way, I noticed on one of the YouTube videos that there were different agitation speeds on an F+P made in Australia.


Post# 263962 , Reply# 21   2/8/2008 at 15:28 (5,893 days old) by brant_ix (Westford, MA)        
Update: SO I Decided on the Kenmore Elite Oasis 28042

brant_ix's profile picture
I had spend the last couple weeks online, going back n forth
to Sears, Consumer Reports, Consumer Affairs, you name it.
I finally settled on the Kenmore Elite 28042 Oasis with the
Agitator. They delievered yesterday and took away my
Defective Maytag Centennial Pair (MTW5900Two & MED5800Two)

I have to say WOW!! What an incredible difference! The
Washer is SO Quiet! No more thunking on my kitchen ceiling!
No more banging from the spin! In fact, when it was
spinning, you couldn't even tell from downstairs. I went to
check on it and it was humming away! I even went a little
manic, and I ordered the HE Glass top lid so that I can watch the washer in action! <=)

I just hope all the kinks have been worked out, Circuit Board
shorting out, draining pump leaking.... I bought a single
outlet surge protector and have a drain pain to be proactive just in case!
Keep your fingers crossed! X X

And thanks to all for your thoughts. It was appreciated.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO brant_ix's LINK


Post# 264012 , Reply# 22   2/8/2008 at 22:48 (5,893 days old) by jonv112 ()        

So you got the agitator model with the glass lid? Would you be able to post some videos of it? I don't think any have been posted yet.

Post# 264058 , Reply# 23   2/9/2008 at 09:57 (5,892 days old) by funguy10 ()        

Jonv112, you took the words out of my mouth. I have the same washer but it has a solid lid.

:(


Post# 264367 , Reply# 24   2/10/2008 at 21:11 (5,891 days old) by brant_ix (Westford, MA)        
I'll keep you guys posted!

brant_ix's profile picture
The Lid is supposed to arrive on Wednesday, I'll probably tackle it next weekend when I replace the Plastic Overflow Tub. The Sears Delivery guys broke the one I had there that came with the house. <=/

I'll keep you posted, I am anxious to see it washing myself! And will be happy to post when I can!


Post# 265477 , Reply# 25   2/18/2008 at 09:32 (5,883 days old) by brant_ix (Westford, MA)        
Installed The Lid! LOVE IT!!

brant_ix's profile picture
Hey Guys!

I got the Clear Glass Lid and installed it on my 28042 Oasis this weekend! I Was TOTALLY Mesmerized!! I Watched a WHOLE Whites Cycle! I was very impressed with the whole thing! I still have to set up home computer and find my camera so I can make a video of it, but as soon as I do, I will let you all know! I have to do a project for class with Photoshop so Hopefully I can do it this weekend!


Post# 265530 , Reply# 26   2/18/2008 at 17:25 (5,883 days old) by fa_f3_20 ()        

Since the Oasis and the F&P top loaders have been mentioned in this thread and the various questions answered, I thought I'd do the same for the Harmony, as a point of comparison. Compiling the various questions that have popped up in the thread:

Does it get the clothes twisted? Hasn't been much of a problem for us. The only trick is to not pile everything on top of the center of the wash plate.

Does it get all the clothes wet? Yes. I've observed many loads, and it's almost uncanny how it nearly always gets the water level exactly to the top of the wet clothes.

How is the turnover? Kind of slow compared to a conventional top loader. But it seems to get everything clean. One odd thing is that the turnover is "backwards" from most agi machines; the clothes get pulled down into the water at the tub edge, and they pop back up at the center.

Neutral drain? Yes, sort of. The tub rotates at 25 RPM during drain. I'm not at all sure what the purpose of that is. It also rotates at this speed during fill, which the service manual explains as making sure that the water is mixed so that the temp sensor (underneath the basket) senses the water temp properly.

Noise? Extremely quiet, almost inaudible, during agitation. Unless the load is heavy, the only thing you hear is water sloshing. No motor noise at all. The drain pump is rather loud, so it is noisy during drain and spin. At max spin speed you can hear the motor (it kind of sounds like a jet engine), but mostly you just hear that darn pump.

Lint filter? None, alas.

Spin speed? The max is 1040 RPM.

Fabric sensing? No. There are four levels of "wash action": vigorous, normal, delicate, and handwash. Selecting a fabric selects a corresponding wash action, but you can always change it. The wash action setting effects both the rotating speed and the length of the stroke during agitation. It also effects the spin speed. Vigorous and normal both get the full speed spin of 1040 RPM. IIRC, delicate spins at 700 RPM, and handwash spins at 500.

Water level control? The Harmony doesn't have the floating-basket mechanism of the Oasis. It initially senses the load by rotating the wash plate a few times through the dry clothes at the very start of the cycle. When the fill is near complete, it will take a few more strokes. Then it will agitate for a minute or so. If it decides that there is still too much resistance, it puts more water in. It may go through this several times (max I've seen was 3). If you lift the lid during the early part of the wash cycle, it will test the load again before it resumes, to see if you added anything. If so, it will add more water. There seem to be an infinite number of possible water levels, although I recall the service manual saying that there are around 15. The load isn't sensed again for rinse; the rinse always fills to the same level as what the wash ended up at. There are a few special cycles, such as the blankets cycle, that always fill to the max level.

Spray rinse? Sort of. It's kind of strange. After the wash drain, it ramps up and spins for several minutes. Then it stops. As soon as the basket has stopped, the drain pump comes back on and the motor spins the basket at 25 RPM while some water is dispensed -- not very much, only a few seconds' worth. Then it ramps back up and spins for a minute or two more. I think they did it this way because the tub is very softly sprung and it moves a lot if the load is a bit off balance. I suppose it's possible that with a wobbly load, if it tried to spray rinse at speed, some of the water might miss the tub. However, as it is, most of the water misses the clothes. It doesn't look very effective.

A couple of other interesting bits:

The tub brake is a hysteresis circuit. There's a big power resistor in the panel that dissipates the energy if you lift the lid during spin. It stops amazingly fast. However, normally, it doesn't use the brake. At the end of the spin, it simply lets eddy currents in the permanant-magnet motor stop the basket. This takes about 30 seconds and it makes a most interesting noise as it does it. The brake does get tested briefly during ramp-up of each spin. You can see when it does it because it creates a torque reaction that rotates the outer tub a bit.

There's a thing they call a "clutch", but it isn't a clutch in the conventional sense. What it does is engage and disengage the basket from the motor. (The wash plate is hard-coupled to the motor.) The mechanism is driven by a small motor. When it is changing position, if the room is quiet and you listen carefully, you can hear it. There's a click and a small whirring sound. After each change of position, it tests to make sure the clutch is in the position it is supposed to be in by jerking the wash plate back and forth a bit.

It has the best dispensers I've ever seen. There is a pull-out drawer with compartments for pre-soak, wash, and fabric softener. They all get throughly flushed with water under full line pressure, and there's never any buildup. The bleach dispenser is an odd thing that empties via a siphon. You put your bleach in. Near the end of the wash cycle, it adds water to the bleach dispenser until it starts to siphon out. Then, the water stops, and the siphon empties the dispenser. It flushes it again with water in between the end of the spin and the start of the rinse fill. This bit is weird when you first see it because it isn't spinning, you can hear water running, but you can't see where. Then, after it has filled the bleach dispenser, the rinse fill starts while the dispenser siphons out.



Post# 268129 , Reply# 27   3/6/2008 at 10:07 (5,866 days old) by brant_ix (Westford, MA)        
Trying again

brant_ix's profile picture
Hey Guys...

I tried to take a video of my Oasis last night, but apparently my camera wasn't capable of streaming video...

So I am hoping to try again this weekend with my web-cam and laptop. Will keep you posted.

~Brant


Post# 268162 , Reply# 28   3/6/2008 at 15:04 (5,866 days old) by funguy10 ()        

Full cycle I hope? I broke my mini-camcorder and misplaced my lidlock magnet.

Post# 268167 , Reply# 29   3/6/2008 at 15:49 (5,866 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
Full cycle I hope?

unimatic1140's profile picture
***clears throat***

Post# 268176 , Reply# 30   3/6/2008 at 16:44 (5,866 days old) by funguy10 ()        

Oops. I read and posted in this thread before the one about the Maytag Neptune TL. My bad.

Post# 269100 , Reply# 31   3/11/2008 at 19:03 (5,861 days old) by brant_ix (Westford, MA)        
Bad News Guys...

brant_ix's profile picture
Sorry to get your hopes up...

I tried doing a test run video with my web cam and it looked like an animated GIF.. quality was terrible. I even went to YouTube to try and do a quick vid but it wasn't any better. I then tried with my Digital Camera, but it's an older model and it doesn't support video.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I will have any video of my washer to upload anytime soon.

Sorry to disappoint... <=(
~Brant


Post# 269258 , Reply# 32   3/12/2008 at 14:32 (5,860 days old) by funguy10 ()        

Doh! Time to fix my camera and find my magnet!


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