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Thread Number: 15707
KitchenAid KDS 18 Ready For Install |
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Post# 263579 2/6/2008 at 14:10 (5,923 days old) by gansky1  (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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I brought my KDS-18 dishwasher down to the basement today for a test run before installing it in the kitchen in a few weeks. I had this dishwasher in the garage but not connected for a long time so I want to make sure everything is perfect before putting it into a brand-new kitchen. I've decided to use this machine instead of buying a new dishwasher for several reasons. The first is the frightening thread in the Deluxe forum on "Today's Dishwashers" that in summary means that unless you spend roughly a grand (or two) you won't get the performance (and speed) that some of the vintage machines deliver with ease. While it's true that we will use more water and energy with the KitchenAid, I will still only run it a few times a week so the cost vs. savings is rather a moot point. The other reason is because I have been using my KDS-56 and KDS-55 portables in the basement these long months of remodeling hell and have come to love the ability of these machines. Even with dishes that have sat for days, the Soak & Scrub cycle blasts everything away with obvious ease. If I had a built-in version of the 16 or 17 series, I might consider installing it, but there are advantages to the 18 series as well. The double wash arms (and constant rinse) allow for much more loading flexibility than the single-arm models, the cycles of the 18 series are very similar to those in the 16 & 17's without sacrificing the 180F sani-rinse and we still have a heated dry. I considered replacing the 800 watt drying element with an 1100 watt element from a 16 or 17, but am finding that 800 watts still gives adequate performance without the damaging heat in the back right corner of the lower rack. Of course, the drying heat can be shut off if desired with the energy saving option. With any drying element or option, there will still be small puddles in the bottoms of cups, etc. and rarely will plastics dry completely - especially in the top rack.
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Post# 263581 , Reply# 1 2/6/2008 at 14:15 (5,923 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA) |
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Excellent choice. Thats a great machine! | ||
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Post# 263583 , Reply# 2 2/6/2008 at 14:19 (5,923 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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A bit of the parts stash...
I found a bad drying fan motor and replaced the original water valve as it was a bit crusty from lime and hard water. I've run several cycles with Glass Magic to clean up some of the cloudy film on the porcelain. I'll pick up some of the citric acid dishwasher cleaner when I'm at the store next, but this works pretty well too and has a nice chlorine scent ;-) 
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Post# 263585 , Reply# 3 2/6/2008 at 14:20 (5,923 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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Post# 263588 , Reply# 4 2/6/2008 at 14:24 (5,923 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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Now for what to do about the front panels. I'm thinking of taking them down to a sheet-metal works and having stainless cut for the front. It would match the refrigerator and the aluminum trim of the 57 GE range very well but certainly not as interesting and conversational as an enormous boob (see pic) but can't seem to find a picture large enough to paste on the front. It would be fun though...
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| Post# 263598 , Reply# 5 2/6/2008 at 14:47 (5,923 days old) by hoover1060 () | ||
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That is absolutely beautiful! Looks nice Greg, that will be an awesome addition to your new kitchen! | ||
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Post# 263602 , Reply# 6 2/6/2008 at 15:16 (5,923 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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I really tried to talk my sister out of letting this exact model go. It was in her house when she bought it about 20 years ago. She insisted it wasn't getting her dishes clean and was leaving black particles on things. A major part of the problem was that she hardly ever used it. I know I could have managed a fairly easy fix with some advice from other AW members, but she's 400 miles away and she was just plain over the KA and wanted to replace it. So she got a Bosch and the KA went out on the curb. Needless to say, somebody who presumably knew what it was spotted it and it was gone in no time. Mandy, that machine will be a beautiful addition to your kitchen. And a very capable addition as well. Enjoy it! Ralph | ||
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Post# 263604 , Reply# 7 2/6/2008 at 15:32 (5,923 days old) by peteski50 (New York) |
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KDS18 | ||
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Post# 263608 , Reply# 8 2/6/2008 at 15:47 (5,923 days old) by volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH) |
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Efficiency vs. life vs. use.
I like that Kitchen Aid!! Use it well, for a good long time. I think that many of the contemporary "energy efficient" dishwashers (and washing machines) aren't really energy efficient at all! When considering how much energy and resources are used to manufacture a machine, transport it from factory to your house, install it, and dispose of the old one; how much energy would a new machine have to save during use over how long a period of time in order to save any energy upon comparison to keeping an existing machine? Sadly, so many new machines are so poorly engineered/built (shoddy materials don't help either) that their usable life is too short to realize any energy savings. As for convenience, there is something to be said for short, but effective, cycle times. Why bother to have an automatic appliance if it isn't reasonably speedy? Furthermore, regarding miserly use of water and a few other things, why have an automatic appliance if it doesn't do a good job at its intended function? I don't care how energy efficient a dishwasher is unless it thoroughly cleans my dishes and has flexible racking to hold my variety of dishes and things. If it ain't broke don't fix it. If it is broke, then fix it! Dave | ||
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Post# 263609 , Reply# 9 2/6/2008 at 16:05 (5,923 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Ohhh nice box of parts... | ||
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Post# 263612 , Reply# 10 2/6/2008 at 16:11 (5,923 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
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| Post# 263618 , Reply# 11 2/6/2008 at 16:36 (5,923 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
Hey
That's the same machine I'm going to pick up from Coldspot. I think I'm going to make that one into a portable. Gotta Love those older KitchenAids. They'll take the rust off a Trailer Hitch. I bought an Energy Saver IV brand new in 81. Outstanding Cleaning Performance. News Flash about the KD2-P...stevet called today and ordered the new drain valve et al should be here next week. I can't wait to have the Big Blue Wash Arm and a 4-way HydroSweep side by side. | ||
| Post# 263630 , Reply# 12 2/6/2008 at 17:58 (5,922 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Here's the baby I'm picking up | ||
| Post# 263631 , Reply# 13 2/6/2008 at 17:59 (5,922 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Interior | ||
| Post# 263633 , Reply# 14 2/6/2008 at 18:04 (5,922 days old) by 70series ( Connecticut.) | ||
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This was the exact model my grandmother got in 1976. It worked flawlessly. Have a good one, James | ||
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Post# 263639 , Reply# 15 2/6/2008 at 18:47 (5,922 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA) |
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| Post# 263644 , Reply# 16 2/6/2008 at 19:23 (5,922 days old) by hoover1060 () | ||
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My vote is for the boob. {{{SIGH}}} Spoken like a str8 boy... Luv ya Ben! | ||
| Post# 263684 , Reply# 19 2/6/2008 at 23:04 (5,922 days old) by tlee618 () | ||
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YAY Greg, I think you have made the best possible choice. Of course if you would rather trade that beauty for an almost new GE we should talk!!!LOL | ||
| Post# 263691 , Reply# 21 2/7/2008 at 00:06 (5,922 days old) by hometechdoc () | ||
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LaPearla or KDS-18 If you are not going to go for the LaPearla, then this is a good choicd. Actually one of my favorite dishwashers of all time. You will be thrilled with it. I think you should find the boob as the door panel. | ||
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Post# 263716 , Reply# 22 2/7/2008 at 07:19 (5,922 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Go for a nice but artsy butt-crack | ||
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Post# 263718 , Reply# 23 2/7/2008 at 07:21 (5,922 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Post# 263727 , Reply# 24 2/7/2008 at 08:44 (5,922 days old) by easyspindry (Winston-Salem, NC) |
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Great dishwasher -- as if you didn't already know The innards are just like my 20 year old ISE, and it's a great machine. You'll always be pleased. And it looks great, too. You done good. Jerry Gay | ||
| Post# 263759 , Reply# 27 2/7/2008 at 11:38 (5,922 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
HI Greg, It's MINT | ||
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Post# 263764 , Reply# 28 2/7/2008 at 11:58 (5,922 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Constant Rinse ... | ||
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Post# 264125 , Reply# 31 2/9/2008 at 19:57 (5,919 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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NOW its' ready!
I've made a few more adjustments in the restoration process. I tried the sani-cycle the other day and it never progressed beyond the heating stage in the final rinse. Upon investigation, I found that someone had replaced the thermostats incorrectly. From the factory, there are two thermostats (pictured below) that control the 180F sani-temperature (left side) and the 196F high-limit thermostat (right side). The sani-thermo was there, but apparently not functioning properly and the high-limit one had been replaced with a 165F. This caused the machine to heat the water to approx. 165 and then turn off the heater, effectively making the cycle stuck in this loop indefinitely. I replaced both thermostats, a new 180 for the sani temp and I only had a 185 for the over-limit replacement, but it works just fine and will hold it until I can get another from Grainger, Johnstone, etc. Fortunately, these thermostats are readily available, just be sure to get the correct temp ratings.
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Post# 264126 , Reply# 32 2/9/2008 at 19:59 (5,919 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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Post# 264127 , Reply# 33 2/9/2008 at 20:00 (5,919 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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| Post# 264151 , Reply# 35 2/9/2008 at 23:59 (5,919 days old) by spankomatic (Ukiah,CA) | ||
Greg, KDS-18 is my all time favorite. We had one for years in our house in the late 70's. I think we got in May of 1979. I would trade my 2 hour cycle Bosch for one in a second! One of the things I always liked about it was it's flexability in loading. Can't beat it. Sani cycle and best drying you can get all in about 1 hour. I also like the silverware basket and mini basket for small items. We had 8 people living in our house back then and the KDS-18 was used 2-3 times daily. Never had any repairs. Next wash in you have can I do the dishes? Jim | ||
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Post# 264153 , Reply# 36 2/10/2008 at 00:52 (5,919 days old) by peteski50 (New York) |
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KitchenAid! | ||
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Post# 264298 , Reply# 37 2/10/2008 at 16:42 (5,919 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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I did switch out the top rack for the longer wash arm that I scavenged from a 19 series a long time ago. I've been lucky finding racks for these still in good shape, even have a 17 series set NIB. The 180 t-stat is a replacement I bought several years ago for my other 18 I had in my old kitchen, but it seems to stay in place pretty well. I may use some electrical tape to secure the whole assembly together before installing it in the cabinet just to be sure though. Do you remember the commercials with people slamming the doors of their KitchenAid dishwashers "for the sound of quality" -- or something like that? Also, the commercials with the tag line "next time buy a KitchenAid"... | ||
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Post# 264309 , Reply# 38 2/10/2008 at 18:05 (5,918 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Black Beauty
I'll be picking up a black beauty of a KDS-18 in a few days. Thanks to this thread, I pounced on it and can see that it's just about the best DW that KA ever made. Heated forced air dry with separate air heater, water heating element deep in sump to heat the water and not the dishes, upper wash arm, sanitize feature... good enuff to boot the Bosch. | ||
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Post# 264345 , Reply# 39 2/10/2008 at 20:29 (5,918 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Long Cycle Times
Of today's dishwashers are mainly the result of machines having to do more with less in terms of water and energy use. Same as with washing machines. Many vintage dishwashers had multiple fills,purges, wash and even rinse cycles on the "Normal" cycle. Today one is hard pressed to get more than "wash - rinse" on most machines, or if they do multiple cycles, the amount of water used is not enough to really get a good powerful stream of water going. Suppose dishwasher makers could use more powerful motors and or pumps, but that costs money. Difference is sort of like comparing cleaning the drive with a water hose versus a pressure washer. L. | ||
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Post# 264362 , Reply# 40 2/10/2008 at 21:02 (5,918 days old) by peteski50 (New York) |
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KitchenAid!
I agree today's dishwashers are more of a hassel and not made half as well as a KitchenAid. This new water usage issue is such stupidity also. The fact that the new machines run so long is wasting energy. About 15 years ago they were making dishwashers to use less water and energy and were very sucessful. At that point most manufactures omited one water change and created better filtering systems. In most cases this was very sucessful and the machines did very well. But now it's been taken to a extreme. And the whole point is defeated. We don't have control over anything anymore. We are living in a dictatorship. And it's getting worse everyday. Peter | ||
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Post# 264374 , Reply# 41 2/10/2008 at 21:42 (5,918 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 264375 , Reply# 42 2/10/2008 at 21:50 (5,918 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Oh, I don't know. The Kitchenaid KD-2P has a pre-wash purge, then a full wash, then two rinses. All told, about 4 fills. My late 90's Frigidaire had mutliple fills/pre-rinses, wash, and then multiple rinses. My 2003 Bosch has multiple pre-wash rinses, wash, and then multiple rinses. It varies somewhat depending on soil level. But each fill uses significantly less water than either the KD-2P or the POS Frigidaire. So, while the more modern machine may use less water overall, it does have multiple fills - and perhaps more of them than many vintage machines. It's similar in that respect to modern front loaders vs. older top loaders. Less water per fill, but more fills (mainly rinses) than a traditional toploader. | ||
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