Thread Number: 16045
Frankenstein dishwasher Advice.
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Post# 268011   3/5/2008 at 14:49 (3,853 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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I have been thinking of a Frankenstein dishwasher for me to build.I am going to use a G.e. washer with a dial and put a larger motor in it add more wash outlets on it.I was wondering could the G.e. take that type of Amperage draw.I have two design plans.I thought the most easy way to go is just add another G.e. motor to and a tap into the main wash line.I would use one motor for the bottom arm and the other for the top wash.The new motors are cheap 25 Bucks on ebay they only draw 1.8 Amps.I picked up a 1/2 H.p. grinder Pump for 20 bucks at the Flea market its a Cap start and is a 50 Gallons a min output but draws 6 Amps. Would that over tax the controls on it.This pump can grind anthing but if I went this way I would haved to use a seprate drain pump because of the the drain diverter would not work I dont think because of the shear power of the pump.The G.e. is the best route because I can add alot more water with out it running out the door because of there set up.Does anybody have any comments or advice.Would 50 gallons a min going through the wash arms be to much I dont think so sence it would be split three ways.I was going to use the old metal wash arm for the bottom but it has that pop up tower on it.I thought about swapping it out with a whirlpool tower or just cap it off and make a direct feed for the top.I do like the tower design if its made right.

Post# 268024 , Reply# 1   3/5/2008 at 16:19 (3,853 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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You could use a relay to start and run the motors that is only controlled by the timer - that way, the current draw for the motor(s) wouldn't be going through the timer - just the relay. I've wanted to do this on the Frigidaire unimatic washers for some time, just haven't found the time to get it done.

I wonder if too much pressure would cause the arm to move too fast, cutting down the scrubbing power... That's the fun of trying though, if it doesn't work, try something else!

Post# 268026 , Reply# 2   3/5/2008 at 16:36 (3,853 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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Yea you have a great Point,I guess I could rig some type friction device or better yet if it goes to fast cut a hole in the arm facing the other direction to slow it down.My Granny had a old Frigidaire dishwasher it was a G.m. version that had a little wash arm attached to the main one also. I thought that was cool if you think about it that vastly increases the odds that every dish will get blasted.I saw a G.e. at sears could have been a Kenmore about 10 years ago.The bottom wash arm had 4 holes and that was is it the main wash arm had on each end a 5 in arm that was in the shape of a food processor blade at each end was a large hole.That relay is a great Idea and I have tons of them around here.I dont plan for any filter for it just a huge grinder the filters would be destroyed I think.The grinder on that pump looks like it could eat glass.

Post# 268064 , Reply# 3   3/5/2008 at 21:32 (3,852 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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That's very cool, I like the way you think volsboy. Definitely use a relay, they are cheap and easy to rig up, a 10amp relay should do the trick. I think the wash arm going at 300rpm would be great fun LOL! Please keep us posted.

By the way, whats this "1/2 H.p. grinder Pump"?? Can you post a picture?

Post# 268085 , Reply# 4   3/6/2008 at 00:48 (3,852 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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My Camera is dead but here is a Pic that looks just like it but differnt color.Grinder pumps are basicly just like a sump pump but with a grinder and chopper blade in it that grinds solid matter.They have Huge ones for Waste water plants and small ones for other things.The pain is this pump is ment to be under the water so I will haved to think of some fix for that but I think it would work good and no matter the food that would be dumped in the dishwasher bones or what not it would be shatterd and ground up..Zoller pumps used to have videos of them grinding barbie dolls and tin cans but I cant seem to find them..I think I will just add another G.e. motor to the dishwasher and use the output for the top arms and the other for the bottom.I have nothing set in stone yet but the G.e. would be the best way to go cause I could add more water during the fill and not worry about flooding.I want a dishwasher that when I get through with it will most likly blow the dishes off the rack.

Post# 268127 , Reply# 5   3/6/2008 at 09:27 (3,852 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Older series KA dishwashers recirculated about 50 gallons per minute through their wash arms, but it was due to the motor speed and pump construction, not the electrical consumption of a larger motor. The first GE wash arm machines tried using the KA's Big Blue Wash arm openings, but the KA motor in the pre-15 series machines turned an efficient cast iron pump, filtered the water and operated at 3400 or 3450 rpm while the cheaper GE motor turned at 1700 rpm, powered an inefficient plastic pump and did not filter the water. The KA washed and did not do a lot of redistributing of food. The GE was the opposite. You would perhaps need to modify the wash arm jets on your machine that are responsible for the arm's rotation to control the speed of rotation. It's also worth remembering that the finer the holes are in the wash arm, the less brute force you need behind the water. If you have a fine enough filter, you can use very small holes in the wash arms like Maytag did and get excellent cleaning. If you ever watched the Kenmore wash arm machines in the stores in the 60s and noticed how the water sort of gently washed up on the Lucite front of the tank and then had the opportunity to watch a KitchenAid or Maytag plastic demonstration tank machine you will know the difference I am talking about. Unfortunately, when a Maytag and a KitchenAid demo machine were next to each other, the precision needle spray of the Maytag usually came out second best in the customers' opinion than the "hurricane in a box" as Jason named KitchenAid's wash action.

Before you decide on using an older GE machine, take a look at the pump. It is not a pump with a close clearance between the impeller and the pump chamber that gives a lot of water pressure, but rather a turbine type pump with an impeller operating in a large chamber of water like older "dasher-type" automatic transmissions. It is so inefficient that it leaves a quart of dirty water in the sump after each drain because it has no power once the chamber is not full of water. Newer models used an auxillary drain pump to empty the drain chamber twice during the cycle. Your project sounds like it will provide you with fun, but it sounds like what you hope to accomplish with a larger motor can be and has been achieved with an efficient wash system.

Post# 268128 , Reply# 6   3/6/2008 at 09:41 (3,852 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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I don't know what to do now Robert.I found a old 1970 G.e. brochure that talks about there wash system in it.This is before they went to the sidewinder they haved used ever sence.The brochure says the motor is a 1/3H.p axel flow pump that pushes 58 gallons a min through the wash arms.So I guess I could still use this but still use the G.e motor on it also.I will haved to do some cutting and J&b Cold weld is a life saver.Oh by the way I LOVE your Washer collection and sence you know so much about them I had another idea floating around.I remeber reading somewhere about a clothes washer that had a grinder in the pump for the lint.I have a 3/4 H.p. 3400 motor and was wondering if you could take a guess about the flow per min on one of thoese or sence Washers turn at 1700 R.p.m.s or would it just blow it up.Now on the G.e motor pump I am in the process of cutting the G.e. strainer plate and adding a meat grinder plate and blade on it to make a real grinder on it also.Oh I find old Washers all the time my boyfriend wants to have me locked away I think but its not like I am doing drugs or anything.I am after a old frigidaire but there rare around here but I dont have the room you do but is there a dream machine you want my Appliance guy could find if anybody can.Here is that brochure that has me rattled................WES

Post# 268143 , Reply# 7   3/6/2008 at 12:24 (3,852 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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Thanks Tom for your input I need some advice on this that is for sure.I have never seen any of thoese dishwashers in glass set up but one time and I was 10 this was in 1985 it was a belt drive Maytag Jetclean.I even rember Florence Henderson on a display they had up there.I didnt want the Maytag cause it had NO disposer at all in it the guy said it didnt need it.I wanted the K/a washer but Mom&DAD said NO.I was checking out the Maytag Disposers they had there with the Video eating Nails I begged for them to get one but No luck.I Finally 23 years later got me That FC-10 Maytag disposer which is KILLER.I don't know why they dont use thoese see thru jobs no more probally cause they dont want us to see how bad they suck now compared to the old ones.Motor power has to have something to do with it Tom but you are right Pump design would account for 65% of the rest of that equation.The New K/a machines have the same wash arms as the older ones but they can't hold a candle to the Hobart ones.My Aunts K/a is terrible she has to use Pots and Pans everyday just to get them clean.What is your take on the New K/a dishwashers?I think there terrible W/p power clean wash was a pretty good system then they went this way they are today.I wish I had the $$ to buy any parts I can think of but I lost my leg above the knee 4 years ago so I am back at school and on a big time budget.Thats why if you or anybody had some advice please tell me that goes double if it saves me $$$$$...............WES

Post# 268151 , Reply# 8   3/6/2008 at 13:55 (3,852 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Hi Wes, what I would do is try to push 58 gallons through EACH wash arm, so go ahead and use BOTH pumps. Can you attach a hose to the intake of the underwater grinder pump? I don’t know how you would use it in a dishwasher otherwise.

I never heard of a washer with a lint “shredder” in the pump. Maybe it was a commercial machine that had this feature. I have no idea how to calculate the flow through a pump, you will probably need some kind of special calculator and feed in a bunch of variables like hose size, pump body capacity, etc, etc.

I remember my last boyfriend before Neal also wanted to have me locked away for collecting all these wonderful washers. So I figured out an easy solution to all of his worrying and consternation about my collecting, he got dumped ;). Your boyfriend needs to respect you and what you do just as you need to respect him for what ever his favorite things to do are.

Post# 268175 , Reply# 9   3/6/2008 at 16:24 (3,852 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Anyone think of trying a spa pump? Those are high pressure pumps for sure.
I'd say go one more step and use a 1HP pool pump but that might be overdoing it.

Yeah these things are running at 50gmp, but i bet their PSI pretty low.
Pool pumps run around 20-30PSI regularly.

Food for thought.

Post# 268218 , Reply# 10   3/6/2008 at 23:18 (3,851 days old) by mrcleanjeans ()        

Tim Allen would be proud!

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