Thread Number: 16437
Kitchenaid Dishwasher Kdi16 (any-good)
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Post# 272923   3/30/2008 at 00:51 (5,869 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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My Appliance guy found me a Old White K/a Dishwasher.It is is Great shape the Tub had NO rust at all the racks have a little but not bad.The dishwasher has a Knob and two buttons it it does not have the wash arm under the top-rack but does have the overhead wash.Is this dishwasher worth saving?I dont know much about this model at all but it looks to be a 77 model year maybe older.Has anybody used one of this?I dont see how they would wash that great without that washarm under the glassrack I guess the bottom is for plates Only.I dont know what to do.I will post some Pics later I tried with me Fone Cam but the lighting was so bad it didnt take....




Post# 272931 , Reply# 1   3/30/2008 at 02:20 (5,869 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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Here is a Pic of it I found in the Archives from Todd (I hope you dont mind me using your Pic).This is the Exact Machine that he has waiting for me but I just got me a Kdi-21A and I prefer this one over the older cause I have never used one.I just Cant let it go to the trash heap.

Post# 272933 , Reply# 2   3/30/2008 at 02:44 (5,869 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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The pic above appears to be a KDC-17. "C" is the lower-end "Custom" model with basic features, but still a good machine. One of my aunts had a KDC-17a. The "a" revision added a no-heat dry option.

KA added a 2nd wash arm on the 18-series. All prior models, from the 10-series through the 17-series, were of the single-arm design. The sprayer at top of the tank was added to flush soil particles from the bottoms of glasses and cups, and help with plates and saucers in the upper rack.

The single arm does fine if one takes due care with loading the lower rack so as to not block the spray. Shallow baking dishes, casseroles, and even some small pots/pans CAN be placed at the sides or back of the lower rack without causing detrimental blockage.


Post# 272960 , Reply# 3   3/30/2008 at 12:52 (5,869 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        
You're fine with the 16...

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My sister now has the KDI-16 when she inherited my aunt's house. Despite only one wash arm, I have never had any dish come out unclean. It needed repair about 20 years ago but none since. The only problem is the drain solenoid buzzes, but we are holding onto to it as long as possible and I think you will like it too. By the way, this dishwasher is 40 years old!

Post# 272972 , Reply# 4   3/30/2008 at 14:15 (5,869 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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I don't know what I should do.I prefer the two arms and the K/a with the hardfood disposer a real one not some blender blade like the ones out today.I was Shocked that it was in such good shape the tub had NO rust I dont think the washer was used alot.I think I will hold on to it till one a my friends needs it or the one I have now goes out but its a Kdi-21.I just can't let it go to the Dump thats one of my faults I have a hard time throwing things away.

Post# 272976 , Reply# 5   3/30/2008 at 14:39 (5,869 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT)        
Back in 1972

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I had a KA front loading portable with the single wash arm. Everything came out spotless. You just had to learn not to block the wash action to the top rack.

Post# 272983 , Reply# 6   3/30/2008 at 16:19 (5,869 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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I just don't see how you could put any pots in there at all and the glasses get clean.I could understand if it had one of thoese Orbital wash systems like thoese Old G.e.and the Old Frigidare.My Aunt has a Smeg dishwasher and its got two wash arms on the bottom its very wide and each one of them has a smaller one on the left-side each arm.She has two of them and they both have that type of wash except the regular dishwasher has just one in the bottom.I do like the over head rinse which my Kdi22 dont have but it don't seem to need it though.Why Oh Why did Hobart sell K/a to W/p it just kills me thats why I just cant let that old washer go to the heap..

Post# 272997 , Reply# 7   3/30/2008 at 17:34 (5,869 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
KitchenAids!

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Wes,
To me their is nothing like those older KitchenAids. My mother had a kds19 for 25 years. I wish they made them now in a tall tub. Whenever a new company usually takes over another company it is not for the better. Whirlpool did make some bad decisions in changing the KitchenAids dishwasher design in later years. But to me as bad as that was nothing could ever be worse than what WCI did to Frigidaire. That will always top them all.
Peter


Post# 273006 , Reply# 8   3/30/2008 at 18:09 (5,869 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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Peter,
Well from what I have seen you are right that is for sure.I have been trying to find me a Jet-cone around here and I have only seen two in person.My Mamaw had a Custom Imperial dishwasher I thought it was SOO cool cause it had that satellite wash arm it was small attached to the main one.That dishwasher washed GREAT and lasted forever we still have her first Electric Frige (Frigidare also) they got in 49 that still works just fine.That dishwasher lasted for 20 years and they remodeld and threw it away.They got another Frigidare but it was a Wci one.That machine could not hold a candle to the other one it lasted for 7 years and burned out which considering washers today would be a good machine.I went to Good-will cause my Aunt was living in the house and picked up a old G.e. Pot-scrubber and it out washed that Wci job by a long shot.My Parents have never had any of them but K/a and Maytag and I just LOVE K/a dishwashers and it seems W/p is just eating every company and when that happens innovation goes out the window its all about cheaper and the bottom line.The W/p tall tub with the jets in the back we never needed that until they started to put smaller and smaller motors in it,now its just something to lure somebody and these old K/a washers could wash that in half the time as thoese will.I hope at some point W/p gets slapped with a Anti-trust investigation I guess I am just very bitter cause we go through washers every 3 years now....WES


Post# 273040 , Reply# 9   3/30/2008 at 22:58 (5,868 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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I understand your frustration.....but if Whirlpool ever disappears, the we're left with just GE (which is ok), but then that'll let Haier and all the other shitty brands in.
Not everyone will be able to buy a Bosch or Meile.


Post# 273393 , Reply# 10   4/1/2008 at 22:16 (5,866 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Shall we set the record straight again?

Wes,
For the record, Hobart did not sell the Kitchenaid Line to Whirlpool because they wanted out of the business.The owners of Hobart at that time was a conglomerate called Dart and Kraft. They were all of Kraft foods and Dart industries which had under their wing among others, Tupperware and all of the Kraft Foods brands.
There were additional companies in the group as well.

To make a long story short and I have posted this here before somewhere..

In 1980-81 Canadian Pacific tried to buy Hobart Corporation which was a privately held company whose primary owners were the Meeker Family in Ohio. This was considered a hostile takeover and the history of CP was one of buying up cash rich companies and draining the cash out of them and then dumping them so to speak.
In the politically charged atmosphere of the time, Dart and Kraft came to Hobart's "rescue" and bought it from the Meekers et.al. and thus saved an American company and kept it an American company.
D/K paid approx. $400 million for Hobart at the time.
Fast foward a bit and along comes Whirlpool which was being battered by the quality lines such as Maytag and wanting more market share desired a high end product name to add to their list of assetsand logically, their bottom line.

Since Kitchenaid was considered the best out there by most people, Whirlpool approached D/K and offered a cool $200 million bucks for it and D/K's bean counters, probably did you know what in their pants and accepted the offer.

D/K's position as to recoup all or most of their investment as quickly as possible by either selling off assets and or streamlining and upgrading companies to be more profitable. They had already put that into motion at Hobart and for the most part, I would have to say for the better.

They then spun off the food and manufacturing lines into Kraft foods and Premark International (standing for "Premier trademarks) which consisted of Hobart, Wolf, Tasselli, VulcanHart Tupperware, West Bend and Precor to name a few)
So they were looking at half their investment coming back to them in one sweet deal.

Basically, the rest is history for better or worse and for a time, Premark considered entering the commercial/professional market for dishwashers for the home but they were unable to hold on to the "SUPERBA" name as Whirlpool would not relinquish the rights to it.
At the time, they were still marketing commercial style residential ranges under the Wolf and Vulcan names so it wold have been a complimentary product line to have the dishwasher to go with them. Kind of like Kenmore Pro and Viking Pro machines.Of course WE all know these are nothing more than domestic machines.
With our European productioon facilities, we could have gotten right into the market with a full line of Dishwashers since the products Hobart manufactures over there were far more advanced than anything we had here by any manufacturer.

But as fate would have it, it did not come about and today Vulcan no longer markets a domestic commercial range and Wolf domestic is a separate brand from the Wolf commercial units totally.
Who made the better machine? Whirlpool or Kitchenaid? And now Maytag or Whirlpool? Any of us can venture to express our opinions here on this forum.

IMHO, I would say KA and Maytag beat the pants off anything anyone else had out there and probably would still do it today had original designs been improved upon. Imagine a Hobart based TALL TUB machine! Look at some of the machnes Maytag had before the buyup.. Some good products for sure.

So you could say in this case, money was the root of this particular evil, but I have to say this much, given the competition there is today in this throw away society, how long Hobart would have been able to compete and capture market share in an increasingly tough environment would be anyone's guess.
At the time, K/A sales represesnted like 75-80 % of the total unit volume for Hobart, but only 20-25 % of the $ sales vs. the commercial products they manufactured. How much would a consumer be willing to pay for a machine of that origianl quality as opposed to what is out there today?

Hey, how many guys have said that their old GE's and Hotpoint's worked great..some people would be satisfied with any kind of results from their dishwashers as long as they didn't have to do the dishes by hand.

I don't know what the jury will decide on how well the newer sidewinder pump systems do in the New Kenwhirlaids but they are getting good reviews so far. Only time will tell.
Meanwhile, keep an eye out for the curb warming K/A's. There are still loads out there to be reconditioned by us and you all know, most of them run well, consumers just want to upgrade to a newer look. They, once again, don't necessarily care what results they will get.

So to Wes who cannot seem to make up his mind..
Once and for all, listen to us all.. Keep that 21 as your daily driver. You won't be unhappy. The 15,16 and 17's were tanks but if you aren't careful with loading it, you will be disapponted. Since they did the dishes so fast, it was no big deal to wash all the dishware first and then another load of pots and pans. At least now you can spilt the loads in the 21 and not worry about cleaning results.



Post# 273422 , Reply# 11   4/1/2008 at 23:49 (5,866 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

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Thanks for the re-typing the story. I've been here a couple of years and do not remember stumbling onto this info.

Post# 273424 , Reply# 12   4/1/2008 at 23:54 (5,866 days old) by 70series ( Connecticut.)        
KDC-17

My aunt had that exact dishwasher in either Avacado Green or Harvest Gold. I am color blind, so I really don't know. I just know it was not white. She had it since 1974-5 until the moved from their home this past October. No problems, and did a fabulous job.

Have a good one,
James


Post# 273435 , Reply# 13   4/2/2008 at 03:24 (5,866 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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Im Sorry Steve if I said something that bugged you.I did not know the history of it all I just assummed that old saying in get bigger or die out.I can say that from my Experience with the New Whirlpool/K.a side-winder is not good .My Aunt has one and it has needed a New-motor twice in it.The motors are not as powerful know the W/p Durawash is 1/16th H.p. I think the Tall tubs are around 1/7th and the older Power-clean pumps 1/3H.p which are pretty good from what I have heard and the one we had cleaned great.You can tell big time by the plexy glass test the spray is not nowhere near as strong as the Power-clean version.I have a feeling thats why they have put thoese Jets in the back now.I am installing my Kdi-21 I was just wondering about these OLD ones cause I know some guys love them but not having that arm in the middle is a problem for me and I know some guys have them and I wanted there saying.The guy I get these from owns a VERY Old Maytag/K.a. shop that has been in town for 50years he calls me when something I might like comes in.When I asked him for a older model I told him from 1984 era but this one is 74 era I think.

Post# 273533 , Reply# 14   4/2/2008 at 21:23 (5,865 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Wes, Sorry to scasre you!

Wes, I apologize for sounding like I was yelling at you. I just wanted to make the point that if you want a super daily driver, you would be hard pressed to find a better machine than a 21 Series Kitchenaid.Would be better if made by Hobart, but no slouch if the machine is the Whirlpool variant. Both will clean like crazy. Truly amazing wash system and was the forerunner of most systems still in use today.
Like many have mentioned when talking about the original machines with single washarms,loading could often be a critical item but once you got used to it, the machines all cleaned well. Dang, our first family daily driver was a KDS15 and we had some teething pains with it and getting it loaded right. After nearly 20 years,I swapped it for a KDSS16 which had all the cycles and a stainless steel tank which was much quieter than the porcelain tank and I didn't add any insulation to it at all and the 15 was wrapped in about an inch of heavy felt padding and was still a noisy machine.
After that machine, I put in a KDC21D which was the later style with the loop element and plastic blower. Still have it and it still washes amazingly well.
My current daily driver is a KDS20 which I just put back in that configuration after running the same machine as a KDS18 for nearly 20 years! I like the water heating system in it better and even though the wash cycles are shorter, the thing still cleans like crazy.



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