Thread Number: 17347
KitchenAid Superba Selectra 22 Dishwasher 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 284583   6/11/2008 at 22:08 (5,789 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

A couple of months ago, I picked up a KA Superba Selectra 22 dishwasher. The machine had hardly even been used. Here are some pictures I took....the digital display is hard to see under the camera's light, but I think you'll kind of get the idea! It's really a beautiful machine...Hobart design, powerful pump and disposal unit, and the porcelain is in mint condition.

Here is the right side of the control panel.....notice one of the buttons says "Preheating Water Off".




Post# 284584 , Reply# 1   6/11/2008 at 22:10 (5,789 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
The Exterior Shot.....

 Here is the outside of the machine.....

Post# 284586 , Reply# 2   6/11/2008 at 22:12 (5,789 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

This is my Bella getting in on the action....she loves the KitchenAid too...she knows good stuff!!

Post# 284588 , Reply# 3   6/11/2008 at 22:14 (5,789 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
Interior Shot #1

 Here's one of the inside....the porcelain is in mint condition.

Post# 284589 , Reply# 4   6/11/2008 at 22:16 (5,789 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
Interior Shot #2

 Here she is loaded....

Post# 284590 , Reply# 5   6/11/2008 at 22:20 (5,789 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
JennAir Range

 Here's a shot of my new JennAir commercial gas range. Picked her up at the scratch n dent shop for a whopping $405!!! Brand new, not a mark on it. How could anyone pass this up?? Really an excellent range.

Post# 284591 , Reply# 6   6/11/2008 at 22:22 (5,789 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
JennAir Range #2

 Here's another shot of the range....

Post# 284593 , Reply# 7   6/11/2008 at 22:26 (5,789 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
And lastly....

 ....here is my Bella just looking pretty in front of the KitchanAid......

Post# 284644 , Reply# 8   6/12/2008 at 07:35 (5,789 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
These 22's must be coming "in season" now, and what a great catch! These were terrific cleaning machines - it's good you have the Whirlpool influences, Hobart didn't have very good luck with the electronics in their version and ended up replacing a lot of dishwashers. We had some neighbors around that time that never could the theirs to run a complete cycle and ended up getting a whole new Superba model.

Post# 284649 , Reply# 9   6/12/2008 at 08:07 (5,789 days old) by cvillewasherbo ()        
great find

 I've never seen one of those, not ever!! Looks really great.
C in VA

Post# 284663 , Reply# 10   6/12/2008 at 09:31 (5,789 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

Apparently, not many were sold because they were so damned expensive (almost $1200 at the time - 1989) and had reliability issues with the older models. The Selectra didn't really offer anything over the Superba, except the ability to turn off the water pre-heating...for a lot more money! Unfortunately, it's hard to see the electronic display in my photos, but that is a cool part of the dishwasher - has a bar graph along the bottom that tells how much energy your cycle uses, and when the machine is heating, a different bar graph appears to tell you how hot the water is inside the machine from "WARM" to "HOT" to "SANI". I thought it was pretty neat!

Post# 284665 , Reply# 11   6/12/2008 at 09:50 (5,789 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Selectra 22

peteski50's profile picture
Hi Andrew,
The selectra is real nice. The KA was always my favorate dw. Nothing is built like them today. I never did like that pre-heat water at the start of the cycle. It should have been held in the main wash cycle. BTW Bella is a awsome dog.
Peter

Post# 284679 , Reply# 12   6/12/2008 at 10:44 (5,789 days old) by bobbyderegis (Boston)        

Gorgeous. I never saw that model.
Bobby in Boston

Post# 284712 , Reply# 13   6/12/2008 at 12:41 (5,789 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

Pete -

Actually, the Selectra does heat water during the main wash cycle as well as the first wash (and Soak and Scrub cycle). According to the cycle progress chart, while the machine is washing during the main wash, the heating element is energized, but it is not thermostatically controlled during this phase. Same thing happens during all wash phases if you select the "Water Pre-heating Off" option - it heats, but the water heating is just not delayed until it hits 140 degrees.

Overall, without water pre-heating turned on, the end of cycle rinse temp is at about 127 - 130 degrees, vs. 137 degrees with the pre-heat option set. That's with the water heater set at around 125.

Post# 284723 , Reply# 14   6/12/2008 at 13:03 (5,789 days old) by jaytag (Atlanta)        
superba selectra

 I have one of these, it is in a rental house, the heater fan went out but it still works, the digital display was the next to start acting funny. Led only displays parts of numbers. Still washes well.

Post# 284778 , Reply# 15   6/12/2008 at 16:18 (5,789 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Have any of you ever seen this Kitchen Aid Model?

 chachp's profile picture
I had this in Chicago and was told by ABT that it was made for only a short time. I thought it was a good machine and it worked well. The salesman told me to take out a service contract because the board alone was $450 to replace and that was 10 years ago.

Sorry the photo isn't better but it was taken with my sorry Axx original Sony digital camera. Great concept as it had a disk to store the photos but it took crappy pictures.

Post# 284779 , Reply# 16   6/12/2008 at 16:20 (5,789 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
..and the inside.

 chachp's profile picture
It was pretty quiet and washed well but you could see that the old Kitchen Aid style was really gone.

Post# 284801 , Reply# 17   6/12/2008 at 17:50 (5,789 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

That is the Superba 24 or 25 series. All Whirlpool, inside and out. No trace of the old Hobart design like the 22 was. The 23 was the transitional model...Hobart look with the Whirlpool pump. That was the last of the Hobart-inspired series of dishwashers.

Post# 284991 , Reply# 18   6/13/2008 at 15:05 (5,788 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

The 24 and 25 models, like the one in your picture, were good performers, pretty quiet, but with problematic control boards. Not to mention, expensive.

Post# 285008 , Reply# 19   6/13/2008 at 15:56 (5,788 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Luckily I sold the condo before I had any problems

 chachp's profile picture
But I was warned by my builder and ABT that I could have problems. I didn't care I thought it was cool and I wanted it. LOL!

Post# 285036 , Reply# 20   6/13/2008 at 17:33 (5,788 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
pick up your pants!

 Andrew, the machine looks great and it did have the coolest control panel of all the KA electronic units.
Now just pick up the lower panel on the left side..looks like it slipped out of the bracket.

I agree with you about the black looking nicer than the stainless panels in your kitchen but My Mother in Law loves the look of hers with the stainless panels.

And about that 24 series machine, My Aunt wanted one badly to replace her 21 machine and was thrilled with her machine when she got it until she tried to load it like the 21..Well we all now that would not happen with the whirlpool clone..she made me bring her 21 racks back to her house and see if they would fit the 24. I knew they wouldnt but had to prove it to her. She was very disappointed but still has the machine and it has been pretty trouble free so far after all these years!
But then again it also had the Power module pump and not the 1/5 hp pump they use now!

Post# 285056 , Reply# 21   6/13/2008 at 18:39 (5,787 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

Steve - my pants just won't stay up...I don't know why????

Post# 285246 , Reply# 22   6/14/2008 at 21:05 (5,786 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
hmmmm!

 Nice, Andrew!

Post# 285248 , Reply# 23   6/14/2008 at 21:57 (5,786 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Congratulations on your new treasure!
I had the 21 series and it had orange display lighting. I loved the 22's blue display. The 21 went to friends in Florida and the 22 went to my sister and brother-in-law for an anniversary present. Sis & hubby's realtor showed the house before he switched out the KA so it went with the house, but it was old enough for the electronics to start going and made the kitchen look smart so no loss. I am spoiled to my modified 18s, but am looking forward to trying out the Maytag tall tub I have lined up. It has the Insta-Wash and High Temp Wash pads. It needs a new board, but it's only around $100 our cost. Making it a portable will be interesting.


Post# 285270 , Reply# 24   6/15/2008 at 00:14 (5,786 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
KA vs. GE Tall Tub 9800

 A friend of mine had asked me how I like the KA Superba as opposed to the GE tall tub that is currently sitting in my garage. (The GE was suffering from a sticky drain valve, which caused a build up of crap in the filter when the valve flapper wouldn't pop open all the way, and sometimes, the machine just wouldn't drain. Today, I took it all apart and fixed it with a $4 replacement valve flapper, so it's working fine again and ready to go back to work.

I was very surprised to find, after 2 months with the KA now, that overall, the GE is a better dishwasher. (I know - blasphemy!) But it does clean better and believe it or not (I had a hard time with this one), it does it in less time. It also dries far better than the KA...might be the stainless interior. I have never used the heated dry cycle on the GE, but do often on the KA. And I have never used JetDri in the GE. The KA doesn't dry plastics well at all, the GE has no problem with them. The GE will clean things like a pot and dishes with stuck on oatmeal on its Normal cycle. The KA needs Soak and Scrub to do it. The GE's Normal cycle is 45 minutes long (no drying phase) and will extend to 60 minutes for extreme soil, but it seens to take a lot for the sensor to trigger that extra time. The KA takes over 80 minutes, including the water heating phase and drying phase (you can cancel the drying phase once the wash cycle is finished, but you can't eliminate it). The GE doesn't need the drying phase to dry the dishes. Just open the door, and they're done. The KA lacks a top wash arm, so it sometimes leaves yibbles and such on the top of tall glasses and pots loaded in the upper rack, especially when washing really big loads. I never have that problem with the GE unless you block that upper wash arm.

The thing I think that hinders the KA is the fact that it's main wash cycle is a very short 7 minutes and it only rinses once. Both the 21 and 23 Superbas had much longer main washes (about 20 minutes). The 22, for some reason, was shortened. This may just not be sufficient time for enzymes to work properly. Today, I washed a load of dishes that contained 4 knives that were coated with peanut butter. Normal cycle. It did ok, it didn't remove all of it as completely as the GE does. It was necessary to clean a couple of the knives when they came out. I have no doubt that Soak and Scrub would have done the job though.

The main benefits of the GE over the KA is the fact that it's a tall tub. Things like cutting boards, sautee pans, platters, and my wine glasses just don't fit easily in the KA. My wine glasses don't fit at all, regardless of how you adjust the racks. They all fit together fine in the GE.

Now that's not to say that the KA doesn't have it's charms. It certainly does! It makes beautiful sounds and it does wash fairly well. But it can be heard in the living room with the TV on, while the GE is barely audible standing in the kitchen.

I was very surprised with the results. I expected when I got the KA that it would outperform the GE, but that just wasn't the case. The GE has really turned out to be a terrific dishwasher.

Post# 285389 , Reply# 25   6/15/2008 at 19:40 (5,785 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Funny you should mention the GE drain flapper. KitchenAid no longer sells the flapper used in the drain valves of the non-reversing motor machines, so we buy the little GE rubber piece to keep the older KAs in operation.

The time wasted heating water to throw against cold dishes, the yibbles and the poor rinsing were some of the reasons I did not keep these beautiful machines. They looked so perfect when you opened the door. Then there was the problem with the vinyl coating failing on the side rails on the upper racks in the 21 series.

I think another factor in the cleaning difference between the KA and your GE is that in most construction in Florida, the water pipes are in the concrete slab. The hot water cools quickly when it sits in the pipes. The GE actively heats its long main wash. The KA heats its main wash, but there is no thermal hold in the normal cycle and, like you said, it is a shorter wash period. Neither wash in the 21 or 22 series is really hot unless you purge the hot water line before the main wash and have the water heater set above 140.

Post# 285396 , Reply# 26   6/15/2008 at 20:22 (5,785 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT)        
Racks

 gadgetgary's profile picture
'Then there was the problem with the vinyl coating failing on the side rails on the upper racks in the 21 series'


Yep, my exact problem.


Post# 285398 , Reply# 27   6/15/2008 at 20:26 (5,785 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
My 22 also.

Post# 285402 , Reply# 28   6/15/2008 at 20:58 (5,785 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

The left side of my upper rack looks the same way...just peeling apart at the rail.

Today, I went to the grocery store and bought a box of Finish, since it contains chlorine bleach and is more like the detergents that were available when this machine was designed and built. It's running right now, and the smell from the detergent is very potent. It's got some nasty pots and pans in there, and a bunch of glasses and glass measuring cups. I'm going to see how it does with Finish as opposed to the Cascade Complete and WalMart GV enzyme detergents.

I will say one thing I've noticed since I installed the KitchenAid....you go through detergent very quickly! A box with the GE lasts about twice as long because you use about half as much.

Tom, in my house here in Florida, I have my plumbing running overhead through the attic, and even still, the GE heats the water to about 144 degrees in the Normal wash cycle as opposed to the KA's max temp of 135 - 137 degrees that I have been able to measure (by the final rinse)...and that's on the Soak and Scrub cycle. And with the GE, I never purge the pipes before washing - just turn it on, it does the rest. I always purge with the KA since it takes a good minute to get real hot water at the kitchen sink. Throwing hot water at cold dishes is exactly the issue!!

They are truly classic machines, with timeless looks. Even at almost 20 years old, it looks so at home in my new kitchen....not out of place at all. Reliable as they come. But it just doesn't stack up to the GE in overall performance.

Post# 285403 , Reply# 29   6/15/2008 at 21:04 (5,785 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

The upper racks are pricey, but I believe they are still available at RepairClinic.com. Last I checked, they still had them. They came stripped down or complete (with or without the upper wash arm assembly and china guard). Not sure they still have, it's been a while since I looked.

SteveT might also be able to give insight on their availability for anyone who needs to replace their racks, since he's our resident Hobart guy!

Post# 285404 , Reply# 30   6/15/2008 at 21:04 (5,785 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT)        
Andrew

 gadgetgary's profile picture
Any pics of your GE?

Post# 285406 , Reply# 31   6/15/2008 at 21:50 (5,785 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
Gary.....here you go.

 GE 9800 exterior....

Post# 285407 , Reply# 32   6/15/2008 at 21:51 (5,785 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
GE 9800 Upper Rack

 Adjustable Upper Rack with wash arm

Post# 285408 , Reply# 33   6/15/2008 at 21:52 (5,785 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
Interior Shot

 Interior with lower wash arm....

Post# 285409 , Reply# 34   6/15/2008 at 21:53 (5,785 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
Door Shot

 Interior of Door....

Post# 285410 , Reply# 35   6/15/2008 at 21:54 (5,785 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
Control Panel

 Left side....

Post# 285411 , Reply# 36   6/15/2008 at 21:54 (5,785 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
Control Panel

 Right side.....

Post# 285412 , Reply# 37   6/15/2008 at 21:55 (5,785 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
Control Panel

 ....full view

Post# 285413 , Reply# 38   6/15/2008 at 21:55 (5,785 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
Inside shot......

 ...with lower rack.

Post# 285414 , Reply# 39   6/15/2008 at 21:57 (5,785 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

This GE is about 4 years old now. Bought at the Sears outlet store in June, 2004 to replace a 1997 model GE Quiet Power II with the crappy center wash tower.

Post# 285416 , Reply# 40   6/15/2008 at 22:03 (5,785 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

While the GE is not quite as solidly built as the KitchenAid, I have to say it's put together pretty well. The frame and the door are both solid and sturdy, and the racks are of excellent quality, and slide easily. I'm not crazy about the wheels on the lower rack - they don't stay attached well under heavy loads (cast iron pots, you know!!). And, most importantly, they don't rust and come apart. And it's very quiet.

Post# 285417 , Reply# 41   6/15/2008 at 22:12 (5,785 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT)        
Andrew

 gadgetgary's profile picture
TYVM~!

Post# 285419 , Reply# 42   6/15/2008 at 22:24 (5,785 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

You are most welcome!

Post# 285428 , Reply# 43   6/15/2008 at 23:04 (5,785 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
Looks like the GE that was in my house (per the 2004 build date), which I swapped to the buyers of my previous house when I moved the F&P along. They didn't want my KA Superba, which I had put back in place as a stop-gap until I could get the GE out.

Post# 285595 , Reply# 44   6/16/2008 at 19:19 (5,784 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
I love GE's new direct feed dishwashers. They work very well.

Though..

I'm extremely nervous from reports of shoddy electronics now, and the now very serious rumor that they're going to sell off the whole appliance division.

Post# 285596 , Reply# 45   6/16/2008 at 19:51 (5,784 days old) by maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
Cast iron in the dishwasher??????????

 Oh no, unless it's enameled cast iron (Le Crueset, and similar).


Please say it isn't so.



Lawrence/Maytagbear

Post# 285599 , Reply# 46   6/16/2008 at 20:48 (5,784 days old) by jeffg ()        

Personally I'd never do it, but my mom did as long as I can remember and it never caused a problem. Obviously I'm talking about well-seasoned cast iron.

Post# 285601 , Reply# 47   6/16/2008 at 21:00 (5,784 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
Oh no, unless it's enameled cast iron (Le Crueset, and s

 Yes, it's LeCrueset, but I've also put the grill pan in there too...never a problem. Just season it when it comes out. The grill pan still looks great! The dishwasher is only moderately effective cleaning the cast iron grill pan...it still needs a hand job when it comes out.

The nice thing about the GE, I think, is that when I've gone online looking for parts for it, they are not expensive. The electronic control for it shown on repairclinic.com is only $78. The motor, pump, drain pump, etc., are all very easy to work on, you just have to remove the dishwasher to do so. I had the whole machine apart within 20 minutes. No special tools required...just some small wrenches.



Post# 285607 , Reply# 48   6/16/2008 at 21:30 (5,784 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
It is what it is!

 Andrew, I still can't understand the single rinse on that 22. I had the regular KDS22 that I left in the NY house and it had 2 rinses in all the cycles. It wasn't a Selectra and we never had a problem with the drying results either. Because the 18 had the 3 rinses, I decided to take that with us to Florida.

Do you always turn off the heated water and how do the dishes and plastics dry if you use the Sani Cycle?

I still have your 21 waiting in the garage!

Anyway, we are comparing machines that have at least a decade of technology between their inceptions and I am sure back when the 22 was new it was a standout machine. Don't forget how nearly everything that followed the 21 series emulated the cleaning system it had. Must have been a suerlative design for that to happen. I often wonder what would have been if Hobart still had control of the Kitchenaid Division.

While there are lots of great machines out there now, I think if we accept the vintage machines for what they did when they were conceived and built then we can accept some of their shortcomings. I love the tall tubs for their versatility and definitely for their lack of noise,one of these days, I think that new Kitchenaid in my garage will become my daily driver.


Post# 285625 , Reply# 49   6/16/2008 at 23:47 (5,784 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

Steve - it is just the one rinse..3 minutes, I think, same as the Superba 22 Architect Series I had years ago. I always use heated dry on it, and it dries okay, just not plastics. It also leaves the tops of many of the items on the upper rack wet, especially cups, something the GE does not do. But honestly, I had the exact same complaint about the 22 Superba as I have about this one.

I will bet you that the 21 does a somewhat better job because it has a longer cycle than the Superba does, and a longer, heated main wash to boot. I was surprised myself, because I really expected the KA to outperform the GE, but to start with, there really wasn't anything the GE didn't do well...it just isn't as pretty as the KA!!

Now last night, I tried Finish in the KA. It did a somewhat noticeably better job than enzyme detergents do. I'm going to keep using it and see what happens. It was a pretty dirty load, pots, pans, baking stuff...all came out fine on Soak and Scrub with Finish....just one pot had some residue that wiped off. But really, there is no excuse for peanut butter not coming completely off....something the GE does even on its Speed Cycle. Since my dog loves peanut butter, it's what I use to give her her medication every day, so I have lots of utensils that are PB coated.

I still love the machine for its classic vintage yet modern style, and utter durability. As someone who cooks a lot, and entertains often, it's sometimes difficult to overlook its shortcomings when the GE is sitting in the garage, very capable of overcoming all of them.

I would be really curious to see how the new KA you have in the box in the garage stacks up the the 18 you have in the kitchen now. That would be an interesting test!!

Post# 285632 , Reply# 50   6/17/2008 at 01:35 (5,784 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
My KUDS220T4 has a single final rinse. Preceded by a pump recirculation/purge.

Post# 285659 , Reply# 51   6/17/2008 at 09:19 (5,784 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

The Selectra does two purges...one before the final rinse, and one after the first wash on the Normal cycle, or the second wash on Soak and Scrub.

Post# 285693 , Reply# 52   6/17/2008 at 12:46 (5,784 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
Yes, same.

Post# 285709 , Reply# 53   6/17/2008 at 14:27 (5,784 days old) by river_realtor ()        

I stick the porcelin enamal grill grates in the top rack of my ge natluis and it does just fine.. They come out quite clean

Post# 286376 , Reply# 54   6/21/2008 at 07:30 (5,780 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

I have started using Finish in the KitchenAid, instead of the enzyme based detergents like Cascade or WalMart's GV, like I used to use in the GE Tall Tub. So far, it seems to be working noticeably better. The shorter wash times just don't seem to give the detergents enough time to do its thing. And with the KitchenAid (Superbas, anyway), it is not a "gradual" heating of water to 140 degrees. The machine stops, heats, then dispenses detergent and washes. So the detergent really doesn't have sufficient time to work as it does in the GE with its longer, heated wash periods. I tried it on pots and pans, and there was a noticeable cleaning difference.

Post# 286417 , Reply# 55   6/21/2008 at 11:28 (5,780 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Andrew, Greg pretty much only uses (or used to use) either Soak'n'Scrub or Sani-Cycle on his KDS18.

Post# 286422 , Reply# 56   6/21/2008 at 12:27 (5,780 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

I find that I use that one the most, too. But with Finish, I tried just a load of dirty dishes and glasses and some plastics on Light, and it did just fine. Maybe that will do the trick?

Post# 286538 , Reply# 57   6/22/2008 at 14:20 (5,779 days old) by lasvegasrox ()        
We have a kitchenaid !!!!

 My parents just bought this house and it has 2 supurba selectras kuda23sb even the instructions are still with them.pretty cool looking tho kinda has chalky buildup on one but the other looks like it has never ben used

Post# 286539 , Reply# 58   6/22/2008 at 14:21 (5,779 days old) by lasvegasrox ()        
...

 ...

Post# 286540 , Reply# 59   6/22/2008 at 14:22 (5,779 days old) by lasvegasrox ()        
the manual

 .

CLICK HERE TO GO TO lasvegasrox's LINK
Post# 286653 , Reply# 60   6/22/2008 at 21:30 (5,778 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Let's commit some purge - ery!

 Andrew and Dadoes,
How about pulling the flow washers out and controlling the fill with the actual supply valve handle so you always get a full or nearly full tank of water? I know you are worried about your floor, Andrew, but the extra water in the purge will bring more hot water up to the machine and will give you an extra rinse before the final rinse and the same effect between the wash cycles too. You can get a decent amount in that way without having the water blast out like we did at my house! Besides, who else would operate it besides you and cause any damage?

Post# 286670 , Reply# 61   6/22/2008 at 21:46 (5,778 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

So far, it seems to be doing better with Finish instead of enzyme detergents. I'm going to do a few more loads in it and see how well it does over the next couple of weeks. But that's a good idea Steve to give it the second rinse, and it won't change to water temps any since it's temp controlled.


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