Thread Number: 17724
Diagnosis: Noisy Unimatic
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Post# 289349   7/8/2008 at 07:56 (5,742 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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Hey Guys,

About a month ago I took some video of the common sounds the Unimatic makes while washing. I will be changing computers soon so I wanted to put together a video to hopefully troubleshoot the issue before tossing the raw footage.

Everything I've checked seems tight and good to go:

Pulsator Nut
Tub Nut
Mechanism Support nut
Snubber plate and snubber
Cross Member
Top lid is secured well

Take a listen to the video (upped the sound quality and lowered the video) and let me know if you have any suggestions. I haven't been using it as often lately as I suspect I'll be tearing into her soon (or if time from the house allows!). Thanks again for your help!

Ben


CLICK HERE TO GO TO swestoyz's LINK





Post# 289368 , Reply# 1   7/8/2008 at 11:37 (5,742 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        

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How 'bout the screw inside the agitator ?

All I hear is the same buzzing bees in the frigidaire bonnet which is just the vibration and humming coming out of the "salt shaker" perforated pulsator.

Mine makes the exact same sounds, so whatever you got, I got ;'D

You've made that baby look brand new; methinks there's nothing wrong with her, but I am only a novice.

Thank you, Ben for a wonderful video.


Post# 289370 , Reply# 2   7/8/2008 at 11:44 (5,742 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
the usual suspects

mickeyd's profile picture
loose screw and cute perforations.

Post# 289374 , Reply# 3   7/8/2008 at 12:00 (5,742 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

swestoyz's profile picture
Hey Mike -

I do know that the pulsator column hold down screw is tight.

Also checked the out-of-balance lever - it seems fine too.

The noise appears to be coming from the lower section of the machine and as it vibrates up through the cavity it increases in volume.

Ben


Post# 289383 , Reply# 4   7/8/2008 at 12:39 (5,742 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
Hi Ben

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I'm sure the guy with the PhD in Unimatics will know when he stops by.

Post# 289392 , Reply# 5   7/8/2008 at 13:22 (5,742 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

While I am not experienced with unimatics, did you check to make sure the machine was perfectly level and all feet are solidly contacting the floor. It kind of sounds to me like a reverberation in the machine.

Post# 289402 , Reply# 6   7/8/2008 at 14:41 (5,741 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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Allen - that is a good point you make. I spent about an hour getting this machine leveled - and happy. Both of those things didn't come easy :D

Ben


Post# 289406 , Reply# 7   7/8/2008 at 15:07 (5,741 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Does that sound only happen after the start winding has kicked out? Can you pinpoint where underneath the sound is coming from?

Post# 289419 , Reply# 8   7/8/2008 at 15:58 (5,741 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

Ben, I think you might have a hose knock,knock,knockin'.

In the beginning you rock the empty tub back and forth and it knocks. If I do that with my WO-65-2 it is silent.
As far as your test goes, I'm thinking the load on the first spin was situated so that it put the tub out of balance just a tad more than the final spin does. So it doesn't knock on the final spin.
So you hear the knocking if you manually rock the tub back and forth or if the tub spins a bit out of balance.

I used to get a bit of knock with another Unimatic I have since I did not replace the S shaped section of discharge hose with factory hose-----I used a piece of that clear hard hose, and it tended to want to tap against the cabinet at the pass-through point if the tub became even the slightest bit out of balance.

O.k.---my two shekels.


Post# 289425 , Reply# 9   7/8/2008 at 16:21 (5,741 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        
Confounded thing!

gansky1's profile picture
Good video, Ben.

We spent a while with this machine here in Omaha a couple of months ago and checked all the things that he mentioned - there are no hoses or wires knocking, all parts seem tight and secure. Ben cleaned and polished the snubber plate and even made sure the snubber spring is firmly in place and clean. We tightened the nut and seal assy. onto the mechanism and made sure everything was secure under the tub. I was thinking that the off-balance lever might be rattling from the reverberations in the outer tub/cabinet, but it sounds like that is OK too.



Post# 289465 , Reply# 10   7/8/2008 at 20:50 (5,741 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        
Torque -

swestoyz's profile picture
To answer Robert's question - yes, it will only rattle during spin once the start winding has disengaged - and the run winding is in full force. I think that the amount of torque the motor is creating during the initial start-up is cushioning *something*, then once it is able to maintain speed and no longer requires the large amounts of torque, the rattle comes alive. it is hard to pinpoint the exact location - but it almost sounds like to pieces of metal outside the mechanism are hitting each other - like a torn piece of steel or something not being completely bolted or secured down properly.

Steve - I found the hose below at an Advanced Auto parts store - but I'm pretty confident that the PN seen below would work at most auto parts stores. If you cut the little bit of extra off the hose it fits like a glove. I originally attributed the issue to that very hose but was a bit disappointed that it didn't cure it. The hose on the far left is what it came with, the 2nd was a failed attempt, and the last hose was perfect.

If the machine is spinning and you gently move the mechanism around while floating on the snubber there is a sweet spot that makes the rattle stop. I have a suspicion that there is an issue somewhere in the mechanism support.

I didn't have time tonight, but I'll take the top off tomorrow for further investigation.

Thanks for the input!


Post# 289522 , Reply# 11   7/9/2008 at 06:53 (5,741 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

Ben, thanks for the tip on the hose!
I sure hope your mechanism support is o.k.! (That sounded weird----oh well, you know what I mean!)


Post# 289530 , Reply# 12   7/9/2008 at 08:13 (5,741 days old) by fltcoils (South Bend, Indiana)        
Start switch

Anyone ever take apart a relay for the start winding current? I'd imagine there's something in that assembly which can get loose or wear, and thus rattle.

My clue is the absence of noise while the start is engaged. when engaged the relay armature is bound tight with magnetic force, but when disengaged it is loose and can rattle. sound plausable?

No noise with relay engaged, noise with relay disengaged. sounds like the relay has worn it's armature and that's rattlin'. I can't imagine the motor is sloppier in the bearings with start current vs run, but that might also be it. Occam's razor suggests the start relay as a first go.


Post# 289536 , Reply# 13   7/9/2008 at 08:30 (5,741 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Ben what is the condition of the rubber surrounding the nipple under the snubber plate? This nipple and rubber ring goes into the cup that is welded to the crossbrace. I've seen these make banging sounds if the rubber has hardened. The fix for this is to take some grease and grease the outside of the rubber ring and inside of the cup, this might solve the problem, but be very careful not to get any grease on the top of the snubber plate or bottom of the pump plate.

Post# 289635 , Reply# 14   7/9/2008 at 21:22 (5,740 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        
1/2 Update

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Gang,

The rubber around the snubber (that sounds funny) was in good shape upon last inspection.

Tonight I started to dig into the machine. Thought I had a tub nut wrench - apparently I do not. But - after some more testing and listening - the sounds are definately coming from the mechanism support. After inspecting the issue by placing my hands under the tub and feeling around the support - here is what I've come up with.

1) the main bearing for the spin cage is shot.

2) the mechanism support is very pliable - I can press it fairly easily with my fingers and doesn't seem too stiff. I have #2 pointing on the fold area, and by touch that area seemed almost too soft. I didn't feel any holes or tears though in the support. Also it felt as though the support was secured well to the rim of the outer cabinet.

3) nut and seal assembly. I could feel slop in this while shaking the tub - not sure if it has to do with the nut and seal not being tight again, but could feel the mechanism slightly move around. By hand the nut did not feel loose. Not sure if that is attributed to the pliability of the support or not. How tight should all of this feel? It is almost as if the spin shaft cage is not 100 percent secure - which takes me back to number 1.

While starting this journey I also have discovered that the oil bellows had a slight tear at the bottom. Yay - something else to track down!

Any further suggestions or input would be helpful. I won't be able to dive into it until next week.

Ben


Post# 289650 , Reply# 15   7/9/2008 at 22:46 (5,740 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
Hi Ben--what an "edjeecation"--thank you

mickeyd's profile picture
The back of mine is open to view from the living room and I've spent many the minutes watching all the goings-on. The wind-up for the spin is so energetic, and then wah-wah-wah-bong--she's loose. I also love watching the spin solenoid click/slip down after pulsation, and in a split second the spin starts.

Right underneath the spin switch is a small metal plate. It looks exactly like a miniature version of the chrome soap dishes or shelves from the 50's. Would you tell me, Ben, what the little shelf is for?

There I am on the floor behind the machine, out of sight, with my head stuck in side the 1x2 foot permanent opening.;'D So cool they engineered it that way. Wonder why.


Post# 289659 , Reply# 16   7/10/2008 at 00:11 (5,740 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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Have you pulled the tub again? There is a tang that aligns the mechanism in the support opening, is that positioned correctly?

Post# 289705 , Reply# 17   7/10/2008 at 09:43 (5,740 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

swestoyz's profile picture
Hey Greg -

No I haven't been able to pull the tub yet. I will try to find a wrench to take the tub nut off - a trip to Sears for a 20 dollar wrench that I will cut in half will be my fate.

I was reading about the tang last night in the reopperating manual - that will be something to look for next week. Thanksf for the tip!

We'll all get this figured out soon.

Ben


Post# 289759 , Reply# 18   7/10/2008 at 15:19 (5,739 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
I will try to find a wrench to take the tub nut off - a trip

unimatic1140's profile picture
Well actually you can just go to work and pick one up, with no cutting necessary

CLICK HERE TO GO TO unimatic1140's LINK


Post# 289760 , Reply# 19   7/10/2008 at 15:29 (5,739 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Actually on second thought this one is better and a bit cheaper...

CLICK HERE TO GO TO unimatic1140's LINK


Post# 289769 , Reply# 20   7/10/2008 at 15:52 (5,739 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

swestoyz's profile picture
Oh Robert - you crack me up!

Before I put through the order - what size is the mechanism support nut size?

Ben


Post# 289773 , Reply# 21   7/10/2008 at 16:08 (5,739 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
1 1/2"

Post# 289775 , Reply# 22   7/10/2008 at 16:13 (5,739 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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so the tub nut and mechanism support nut are the same size?

Post# 289801 , Reply# 23   7/10/2008 at 19:18 (5,739 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
so the tub nut and mechanism support nut are the same size?

unimatic1140's profile picture
No, tub nut 1.5", mech seal/support nut 3.0"

Post# 289813 , Reply# 24   7/10/2008 at 20:39 (5,739 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        
Ben-----

for the spin bearing you can use an SKF 6006 2RSJEM. You have to pull the race-way covers off and flush all that blue factory grease out and you will have a perfect replacement!
Hopefully you have a spanner-nut removal tool! OY!
Speaking of hope------- I hope the tub & nut assy. is o.k.


Post# 289823 , Reply# 25   7/10/2008 at 21:23 (5,739 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
Ummm...

roto204's profile picture
When Roger had the same issue with his Unimatic, it was because the nut was not tight enough. He tightened the bejesus out of it (hit the wrench with a hammer a few times) and made sure the zinc washer underneath was very securely bent-up, and that did the trick...

That may not be the case with yours, but I was remembering that...


Post# 289835 , Reply# 26   7/10/2008 at 22:17 (5,739 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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Thanks for the sizes Robert - that was exactly what I was looking for.

If I remember reading correctly there were two sizes used on the mechanical seal/nut assembly - a switch around 1957 or so - associated with the seal change? There was that wrench that had the two sides to it...

Steve - thanks for the bearing number. Came up in Grainger with two hits (two different sizes), may need to inquire more with the gang in tech.

Nate - I was wondering about Roger's Unimatic. Was his bearing shot as well because I do remember the story of you guys putting it back together.

Thanks again everyone - I'll hopefully have some time to work on it next week.

Ben


Post# 289910 , Reply# 27   7/11/2008 at 08:27 (5,739 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
I don't think that bearing is a problem. You'd know it, when the spin bearing fails in a Unimatic it makes a very loud roaring sound when the machine is up to full speed. First thing to do is pull the tub and check the Nut and Seal assembly.

Post# 289992 , Reply# 28   7/11/2008 at 15:49 (5,738 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
Roger's unit

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Hi Ben,

Roger's was noisy because the nut came loose from the seal over time because the nut wasn't tight enough when we reassembled it. When it really let loose, it started leaking oil out of the top of the mechanism.

When he redid it and hammered it tight, and was extremely careful to solidly bend-up the leg of the zinc washer, everything was perfect and it spun flawlessly ever after...

We also had thought that it was a snubber issue. It did have a bad bearing when we first got it, but that didn't affect the spin balance or make any intermittent noise at all--instead, it sounded like you were standing in front of the air intake on a jet engine when you had the lid open :-). Replacing the bearing made it spin silently, but the noise/rattle/imbalance issue continued as long as the nut was loose.

Hope that helps :-)

Nate


Post# 289994 , Reply# 29   7/11/2008 at 15:59 (5,738 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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We did the same thing on Ben's machine in December, Nate. Bent up the zinc lockwasher and everything. It was pretty loose and we thought we'd solved the problem but as it spun absolutely perfectly but now here is the rattle again. So strange...


Post# 290038 , Reply# 30   7/11/2008 at 20:26 (5,738 days old) by rogera608s (Tucson,AZ)        

Ben,
I have been too busy lately to pay much attention to the forum but am doing some catching up tonight.
One thing that made noise on my washer when it spun was the capacitor. It had been replaced and the replacement was much smaller than the original so they had filled the cavitiy-are you ready-paper towel wads and some corks. I redid that so the capacitor was stable in the holder and eliminated quite a rattle. Mine did sound like a train- like Nate said- when it spun because of a bad spin bearing but a new one fixed that too.
Roger


Post# 290172 , Reply# 31   7/12/2008 at 11:47 (5,738 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
*Folds arms*

roto204's profile picture
Well, hmmph. Maybe the spirit of my evil '61 Kenmore is on the loose again... ;-)

Post# 290173 , Reply# 32   7/12/2008 at 11:52 (5,738 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
*giggle*

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I love that capacitor story, Roger. Might as well have been "The capacitor didn't fit, so they'd filled the cavity with metal filings and diesel fuel."

Sheesh.

:-)


Post# 290174 , Reply# 33   7/12/2008 at 11:57 (5,738 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
Of course...

roto204's profile picture
...you could always use one of these to eliminate the spin noise, Ben--shaving several hundred RPMs off the spin speed seems to quiet things down ;-)



Post# 291325 , Reply# 34   7/18/2008 at 00:01 (5,732 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

swestoyz's profile picture
Quick Update: few days ago took the capacitor cover off, and did notice a small piece of cardboard shoved in there to eliminate a previous rattle issue. I shook the tub and had the same issue. Waiting for the tub wrench - will keep you all posted.

Nate: SMACK!


Post# 291493 , Reply# 35   7/18/2008 at 17:13 (5,731 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
LOL

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*ow!* ;-)



Post# 291498 , Reply# 36   7/18/2008 at 17:37 (5,731 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Nate, have you been working out? And shaving? Woo Woo!



Post# 291536 , Reply# 37   7/18/2008 at 22:47 (5,731 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
Well...

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...I didn't know if the long hair would go over well, but thanks! ;-)


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