Thread Number: 18129
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Post# 295027   8/6/2008 at 08:57 (5,735 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

Today I dropped in to the recycle centre to see if they had any treats for me. They had a Miele W830 which followed me home. Cost $20. Looks in pretty good condition, cord has been removed. I wonder what will be wrong with it? It is still in the car as I got home late this evening, will look at it tomorrow.

They also had an ORANGE Wilkins Servis twin tub, mid 70s vintage. Sorry no photo as I didn't have a camera with me. I couldn't see what condition it was in as it had a fridge dumped on top of it. No, I didn't get it too.

Chris




Post# 295030 , Reply# 1   8/6/2008 at 08:59 (5,735 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

dashboard

Post# 295115 , Reply# 2   8/6/2008 at 14:59 (5,735 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
Looks a bit like the W1918, which has a higher spin (1600 rpm) and more lights for the cycles (mainly 1-2 and 3-4 rinses). Can't make out the temperature selections on your dial - the 1918 goes up to 190F, my 1918A goes up to 170F.

Post# 295116 , Reply# 3   8/6/2008 at 15:03 (5,735 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Hi Chris,

I've picked up a few of those and it's usually the tub bearings that have gone. Otherwise they're a great performer, I'm not sure how you'll go on your solar system though as the temp control is all electronic. You'd have to fill it with hot enough water to bypass the heater.

If it happens to be the electronics, I have a full control panel and computer unit here that I've salvaged that you could have.

Cheers,

Nathan

Post# 295206 , Reply# 4   8/6/2008 at 23:39 (5,734 days old) by hometechdoc ()        
Awesome Machine

 Is this a 6Kilo machine? That is the only reason I could think for it being a 1200 max rpm. Anyway it is an amazing machine. In my opinion one of the best machines ever made.

Post# 295208 , Reply# 5   8/6/2008 at 23:53 (5,734 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Its a 5kg machine, just 10-15 years old.

The current generation 5.5kg entry level machine (W1511) only spins at 1100RPM max.

Post# 295258 , Reply# 6   8/7/2008 at 09:23 (5,734 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

I plugged it in tonight - just a quick play after work. On "spin" setting it lights up and the pump runs, no movement from the motor. After a few seconds the rinse light starts flashing which I think would be a distress signal (a fault code). I hope it is just motor brushes - there is a LOT of carbon dust around the motor. The bearings seem fine, the drum turns quietly and easily. I will pull the motor out tomorrow and have a look when I get time - I am supposed to be tiling the loungeroom floor but a Miele to play with is a tempting distraction.

Thanks Nathan for the offer of the electronics - you are a saint.

Running this on Solar will be a trial - on the Asko it wasn't too hard, it already had a hot fill solenoid so I just disconnected the heater, and rewired the heater thermostat to control the wash fill - it fills with hot only till the thermostat clicks, then cold and hot together. The thermostat also stopped the timer motor from advancing till the water temp was up to setting, I just bypassed that function so the timer motor is not interrupted by the thermostat. The wash is long enough any way. The main thing I have against the Asko is its small capacity (4.5 kg) and poor rinsing as it has only one intermediate and one final spin. I always dial up an extra rinse and spin at the end.

As the Miele is all electronic and has only a cold water connection, it could be quite difficult to achieve the same thing. I may be able to add a hot fill solenoid and divert one of the solenoids on the triple cold valve to be a hot fill instead. making it thermostatic might be impossible. Disconnecting the heater might trigger a shutdown and fault code too. We shall see. I do plan to install a bigger inverter before too long, it could run the heater if needed but in winter I may not have the power to run it any way, and in summer I will have solar hot water galore so I'd prefer to use it. So the Miele may not be a permanent resident here. (though if I can solve the riddle I would love to keep it.)

But what a machine! the swing open front for servicing is amazing. I think it has more steel in it than a Hyundai Getz. I have found a circuit diagram inside so I will study it soon.

Chris.

Post# 295412 , Reply# 7   8/7/2008 at 23:17 (5,733 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

well...

It is the motor brushes. I removed the brush assembly, one brush is worn right down. I was able to stretch it out a couple of mm, then refit the assembly and...it lives! The drum now turns. It is very quiet. The motor even has a sound-insulated cover to minimise motor noise.

I have spoken to a Miele technician over the phone who was surprisingly helpful. It is possible to fit a hot fill valve, they were fitted to some versions. There are terminals for it on the circuit board. Thermostat maybe a problem but he has given me some ideas for that.

The machine is beautifully easy to work on. To get at the motor brushes, I hinge the front panel open, under the drum I can see the back of the main motor. Three wire connectors come off, then the soundproof shroud, then the brush holder assembly. The motor remains in position. The brushes unclip from inside the shroud.
The only easier machine I have seen to do brushes is a UK Hotpoint, where the motor is on top of the drum and very easy to access.

Now I need to get a replacement cover for the mains cord connection (the terminal cover is missing) and do something with the top of the machine, it has had a dryer stacked on top and has some damage from that. (cracked laminex top.) Also the enamel of the front panel is chipped in a couple of places. (Yes, the cabinet is vitreous enamel, not paint.) Does anyone have suggestions for a good repair for chipped white enamel?

Thanks

Chris.

Post# 295420 , Reply# 8   8/8/2008 at 00:07 (5,733 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
One Great Thing About Miele Washers

 launderess's profile picture
Rarely is one model unique to a specific country (leaving aside the 120v models now sold in the US), but merely a class of model where some features are turned off or on, depending upon which country the thing is being sold.

Have seen tops for Miele washers on eBay here, but sadly none are on offer at the moment. Will keep my eyes peeled for one, and since one is having a bit of a dispute with our local Miele, will ask the repair person to keep his eyes open as well.

Best of luck to you and your new "toy".

L.

Post# 295421 , Reply# 9   8/8/2008 at 00:10 (5,733 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Oh yes,

If you can find out what European model matches your machine, check over on eBay sites in Europe, especially Germany and France. Lots of used Miele washers and parts often pop up, though the conversion rates and shipping might be a bit high.

Unlike here in the States, have found many independent dealers offering various Miele parts in say Germany. On this side of the pond, Miele keeps a lid on that side of things, one must deal with persons parting out their old machines or bite the bullet and pay Miele USA's prices.

L.

Post# 295424 , Reply# 10   8/8/2008 at 02:10 (5,733 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Great catch! Congratulations! Hopefully you will be able to adjust the machine to get it working on your solar system. For the chips you might want to look for an enamel repair kit, but the Miele has a somewhat off white color, it might be a problem to get an exact mathing color. One wonders how on earth those chips came off, it's not easy to chip a Miele.

BTW, the W830 is just the same as a European model, actually I don't think there is something like a European model, Miele sells the same machines everywhere except from the North American market I think.

When you're filling the machine with hot water you can afterwards turn the dial to a programme with a colder temperature, that is the easiest way to trick the thermostate.

Louis

Post# 295972 , Reply# 11   8/11/2008 at 08:10 (5,730 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        
Bearings

 Hi Nathan

You mentioned you have seen a couple of these machines scrapped with worn bearings.

This machine has very slight bearing noise. It is OK to use as is but once I get its brushes done and paint touced up, I would like to do its bearings. Have you ever done them? Can you remove the cast iron bearing carrier with the drum still in position? It looks to me that the whole drum assembly would have to be removed first, which would be a pain. If I can get that bearing carrier out, it would be much easier.

Does anyone know of online servicing info for these machines?

Thanks

Chris.

Post# 296094 , Reply# 12   8/11/2008 at 17:13 (5,729 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Hi Chris,

It should be fine to keep using until the noise picks up somewhat. A lot of the noise is from the brush motor rather than the bearings. My W423 (30yo) growls like anything if you turn it by hand, but during the spin it's only a little louder than a new one.

My understanding is that Miele use a forklift to replace the bearings, they remove the dispensor etc from the top and then lift the whole assembley out in once piece. I've tried a few times to disassemble insitu and have found that there just isnt enough clearence to get the tub out of the bearing carrier in place. When it's all disconnected it's not hard to lay the machine on its side and pull the drum/motor assembley out throut the top in one piece, you just need 2 sets of arms and lots of muscles to shift all of that cast iron.

Once you get the tub assembley out, it's a pretty simple setup.

I'm yet to put one back together again though :)

Post# 296106 , Reply# 13   8/11/2008 at 18:20 (5,729 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Yes, according to our Miele repair lad, replacing the bearings on their machines is a major undertaking Miele strongly recommends customers purchase a new machine, rather than opt for bearing replacement. Am sure the cost of hauling the machine away to where ever the work can be done, doing the work, then hauling the machine back and reinstalling is probably equal to the cost of a new unit.

As for online Miele service, no such luck my lad. Miele is not very forthcoming on that front. However try washerhelp.uk, a UK washing machine/appliance site that is a good resource for information.

L.

Post# 296197 , Reply# 14   8/12/2008 at 02:34 (5,729 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
It can be done

 foraloysius's profile picture
On one of the German washing machine clubs it has been done a few times. I'm not sure if the people who do this speak English. I'll ask around.

Post# 296201 , Reply# 15   8/12/2008 at 06:14 (5,729 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
Youtube!

 foraloysius's profile picture
Chris,

Here are two videos made by my fellow Dutch man Wiljan. Hopefully this will work for you.

Louis

CLICK HERE TO GO TO foraloysius's LINK
Post# 296202 , Reply# 16   8/12/2008 at 06:15 (5,729 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Post# 296204 , Reply# 17   8/12/2008 at 07:21 (5,729 days old) by mielabor ()        

Well, that looks all rather simple on the YouTube videos (the second video only works in high quality for me BTW) but I can tell you that the drum with its affixed cast iron weights and the motor is incredibly heavy and you have to lift the whole assembly out of the cabinet before you can remove those weights. I had a Miele with worn bearings myself and of course have tried to repair it, but it proved impossible for me. I would love to see how he removed that drum from the cabinet. It is not shown in the videos :-(

Post# 296235 , Reply# 18   8/12/2008 at 10:18 (5,729 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        
thank you thank you!!

 Thanks Nathan, Launderess, Louis, Mielabor.

That video was great, thanks Louis. I only saw part 1, part 2 comes up as no longer available but part 1 is enough.

I have a block and tackle which will easily lift the drum out, I can attach it to the garage roof frame. (I used it to fit the solar hot water tank inside the roof, that tank weighed over 100 kg and it was raised to 7 metres, so the washing machine drum should be easy for it.)

Mielabor - You can also remove the obstacles such as detergent dispenser, hoses and wires, then lie the machine down on its side and drag the drum assembly out sideways. I have done that on a Bendix a few years ago. Still a big job though. It's a good idea to place a small sheet of plywood inside the cabinet between the side wall and the drum, so that when you lie the machine down the drum is sitting on the plywood. This saves the cabinet being dented or scratched.

Chris.

Post# 296242 , Reply# 19   8/12/2008 at 11:25 (5,729 days old) by mielabor ()        

Yeah, some lifting equipment is definitely needed. I think that with that your changes for success are much better.

Part two of the video can be viewed when you click "watch in high quality".

Post# 296609 , Reply# 20   8/14/2008 at 07:54 (5,727 days old) by timon90 (Norway)        

timon90's profile picture
I've done MANY bearing changes on many different machines, and in those cases the drum need to be lifted out, I use to have 1 or 2 friends helping me with lifting the drum up and out. I know Miele is heavy as hell, but huge things to lift with is not needed if you, and some buddy's have 2 strong arms each;) Nothing is impossible!

Post# 296613 , Reply# 21   8/14/2008 at 08:05 (5,727 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Ohhh I want to get into a Miele

 jetcone's profile picture
I have a winch from pulling my BMW engine so hoisting up a tub and motor would be a snatch!!


My that repairman on washerhelp is Humpy! OOOOOOO where OOOO where is he from???

Post# 296614 , Reply# 22   8/14/2008 at 08:06 (5,727 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
See what I mean

 jetcone's profile picture
OYUUUUMMM

Post# 296675 , Reply# 23   8/14/2008 at 13:42 (5,727 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
According to Wiljan the easiest way to get the whole thing out is to put it on it's side and just pull it out. Use your legs to pull it out and put a sheet under the drum.

How is your German? Here's the link to the thread in German:

CLICK HERE TO GO TO foraloysius's LINK
Post# 296677 , Reply# 24   8/14/2008 at 13:43 (5,727 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
Jon!!

 foraloysius's profile picture
Wrong brand!

That's not a Miele but a Bosch! Perhaps it would be more interesting to get a Bosch, you'll have the repair guy over more often. LOL

Post# 296692 , Reply# 25   8/14/2008 at 14:52 (5,727 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Miele - Immer Besser

 chestermikeuk's profile picture
Nice one Chris, a sturdy reliable machine, was surprised to hear it needed bearings, even after all those years, a local independant dealer here uses a hoist to pull the tubs out, its the only way when the back frame has to come off...

looking forward to seeing how you can adapt it to the solar power, is the Asko still a keeper???

Cheers, Mike

Post# 296876 , Reply# 26   8/15/2008 at 10:05 (5,726 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

Not sure about adapting the Miele to solar, it is looking more difficult than I first thought. There is provision on the power circuit board to connect a hot fill solenoid. However each solenoid is switched by its own relay on the board and there was no relay fitted for that output, though there is a space on the board for it. I fitted a relay to the board and fired it up, but the relay doesn't energise. I will not play with it any more till the motor is working properly with new brushes. It is currently in the generator shed, the only spot I had any space and it is a tiny space. I am halfway through a big tiling job inside, so washing machines will have to wait. (sacrilege!!!)

I really need to investigate more before adapting it. I am not sure why that relay doesn't do anything - possibly it is designed to fill a little with cold water first (to fill the sump and float the drain ball) before ading hot water - the Asko does that though it doesn't have a drain ball. More likely though, the microprocessor probably isn't programmed to energise the relay, there is probably a slightly different processor in hot fill models. There is a chance that some fancy button pushing can reprogram it to take in hot water, I know that the machine does have some special "serviceman only" functions but I don't know what they are. There also may be some wire links that could be changed on the processor board, I haven't opened it up yet.

Next trick would be fooling the thermostat - it uses a temperature sensor connected to the microprocessor, not a mechanical thermostat. The Miele tech I spoke to suggested I could disconnect the temp sensor (NTC thermistor) and put a fixed resistance across it to fool the computer into thinking the water is up to temp. It is not enough just to fill with hot water, if the water cools down during the cycle I don't want the heater coming on. The tech suggested I add water of a known high temp, maybe 60 or 70 degrees, to the drum and measure the resistance of the temp sensor, and use that value of a fixed resistor. It sounds feasible but still not as smart as the current Asko setup, which gives a crude auto fill temp control using the original mechanical thermostat.

I think I will get the Miele working properly as designed, manually add hot water through the dispenser drawer and select a 30 degree wash to play with the machine. If I take a real liking to the machine I might get into adapting it, otherwise I might just sell it or give it away.

Bearings in the Miele aren't bad, the noise is very slight. I might leave well enough alone.

Either way the Asko is still a keeper, the question really is which machine will live in the house and be the daily driver.

Chris.

Post# 296943 , Reply# 27   8/15/2008 at 14:49 (5,726 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        
Hot and cold Fill

 Hi Chris,

I have a hot and cold fill Miele from the previous generation of machines (IE 3 years old) I'm lucky in that mine has a full LCD display and therefore service mode is menu driven.

Service mode gives an option to select whether the machine is cold fill only or hot and cold fill. When you have it set on hot and cold fill, it fills the sump with cold and then switches to hot until the target temperature is reached. Then it alternates hot and cold until the water level is right and the temp is as close to the selected temp as possible.

So to test whether adding the relay works, you will need to fill the sump with water first and see what happens.

Have you asked Miele spares whether there is a hot fill kit available for that machine? The computer should still be programmable. In Australia, the low end machines have been cold fill only, the higher end machines come with as standard or as an option with the hot and cold fill to take advantage of solar and off peak hot water.

Could you use a thermostatic mixing valve on the tap to control the water inlet temp? That way you could leave the cycle set to 30deg and fill it with whatever temp you desired. Your rinses might end up warm/hot if you forgot to dial it back, but wouldnt that help with the rinsing :)

I havent used an Asko, so I cant compare, but my 30 year old Miele and my almost new Miele do a fantastic job. So I can only assume that this one is somewhere in the middle and is up to the same high standards.


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