Thread Number: 18137
Help me to become more Eco Friendly
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Post# 295087   8/6/2008 at 13:32 (5,712 days old) by hotpoint_42 ()        

Hey people:
my washing machine is always switched on every day, i love washing at the highest temp possible as i feel it cleans much better. as you are all aware the electricty and gas in the uk has gone up again, so my bill is normally quite heavy. i have come down from washing at 95 too 75 for whites but all my colours are still washed at 60, expt for my delicate clothes which are washed on outerware 40. my machine is normally cramed to the top with washing. i want my clothes to be clean and safe. lots of underware tends to be mixed in with other washing ( i have quite a large family ) so to kill germs and bacteria just have to wash above 60. Help and i want to cut my wash times down aswell but i dont no how too, it sounds stuped but i cant help it. ? .





Post# 295097 , Reply# 1   8/6/2008 at 14:04 (5,712 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Thy "importing" the Brazilian know how...
until a few years ago, our washers had only cold water option.
Housekeepers would never think about using hot water until the first models with internal heater appeared.

I think you can do the same.

Even with internal heaters in 3 washers and a tankless heater installed two days ago, I still prefer using cold water for most of my laundry.
Sometimes I use hot water for the heavily soiled items.

Try it and you´ll see your clothes will be clean, spending much less energy.

Of course, to compensate the cold water, you should use the longest cycle available in your washer.


Post# 295099 , Reply# 2   8/6/2008 at 14:05 (5,712 days old) by cbosch ()        
Don't

There are many ways with which we can become eco friendly but I personally feel that we don't have to become dirty to be eco. As long as your machine is full I personally see no harm in washing at 95 or 60 on a regular basis. I do at least 4 60+ washes a week and don't loose any sleep over it. as for washing times you should be able to do an easy care 60 which should take 1hourish which would od for your clothes only leaving towels requiring cottons length times.

I like your tumble drier I have the same one and find it wonderful.


Post# 295102 , Reply# 3   8/6/2008 at 14:17 (5,712 days old) by hotpoint_42 ()        

My dryer is gteat. i have connected it strate to the waste so i never have to empty it, its fab, drys pretty quick aswell. the thing about easy care and minium iron programs is that my machine the does a final spin of 1200, were as the cottons does a 1600rpm. to select a seperate spin it takes around 10 mins, i dont wanner be faffing around changing programs lol. but thanks for ya help. can i mix underware with noraml clothes. there are 8 people live in my house hold, so u can guess the amount of washing there is. i want to keep wash times to a minium aswell.

Post# 295107 , Reply# 4   8/6/2008 at 14:30 (5,712 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

dyson2drums's profile picture
Hi
Yes, why not, you can mix underware with normal washing. I wash white underwear with whites and coloured with coloured.It's a habit! LOL
i've got 6 people in my household so i know about how much laundry to be done, plus i have two extra peoples to do as for the past 3 months my grans having extension done so there washing is done at mine too.


Post# 295113 , Reply# 5   8/6/2008 at 14:56 (5,712 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        
Saving Energy :)

samsungfl's profile picture
Personally I never really see the need to go above 60*c anymore, esspecially since weve had the Miele because it dosnt let the temperature drop during the cycle at all.

Alot of bacteria can be killed at 60c and the longer holding time of the water in the wash cycle helps this too. I tend to wash kitchen linen and towels seperatly on a Cottons 60c cycle, however every few washes I put them on a 75*c Cottons wash.

For coloured washing, and time saving I'd say use the Cottons 40c programme with the short option, this proves to give good results whilst not fading coloured washing too much as the temperature is low :)

If your worried about bacteria e.t.c maybe you should wash all underwear together and use the Hygiene programme

By the way, we have the same washer LOL!

Richard


Post# 295114 , Reply# 6   8/6/2008 at 14:57 (5,712 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Are you pushing the short button?

I pack my Miele full and run it on short all the time. A 60deg wash runs to about 1:12 and I never have any issues with things coming clean.

I cant remember the last time I've run a cycle without Short selected.

It sounds like you're over worried about germs unless you have someone who is incontinent in some way. The chemical action of the detergent and the time in the dryer should kill off most bugs. I get sparkling clean whites at 50-60deg and all colours are done at 40. Unless your dryer runs really cool, you're clothes would be spending at least 30 minutes at 50degs or so during the drying.


Post# 295123 , Reply# 7   8/6/2008 at 15:21 (5,712 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
To correct the wrongful information given in this thread.

Bacteria is simply NOT killed NOR reduced in anyway at temperatures below 75*c.
We all make a fuss of cooking chicken well which means it reaches a temperature of more than 75degs but it seems some folk see no harm in washing toilet cleaning cloths at temps below 75 degrees.
Something I dont get???

Bacteria thrive in temperatures between 8*c and 63*c. This is what is known as the "Danger Zone" although the multiplication process of bacteria is at its strongest around 30/40 degrees.

Bacteria need 4 things to survive and multiply,

Food
Moisture
Heat
Time

This is why when you wash towels below 75*c they smell musty when used and they are damp.

The food comes from our bodies,
moisture as we dry ourselves,
time as we leave them hanging in the bathroom or crumpled in the basket
and the temperature will mostly be right for them to breed at room temp.

Of course the detergents mostly incorporate some kind of bacteria reducing action (my thought is that it reduces amounts of the food they need which slows down the breeding process) but heat generally is the only way we can reduce - (we cannot fully remove bacteria activity though) without resorting to other harsher chemicals and extreme heat/autoclaving.

Tumble drying will not remove bacteria either as it only heats to around 50/60 dges or so thus not providing an environment out of the "danger zone".

I would continue to wash at temperatures you feel comfortable in doing so - what you need to remember though we cannot be 100% sterile so just concentrate on the areas it matters such as cleaning cloths, bedding and towels.

These textiles are great at spreading illness causing bacteria as people dont realise just how vile it can be sharing these.
We wouldnt swap used underwear but some of us seem to not mind sharing bed linen or grabbing the nearest cloth when we spill something - its usually the cloth we have just used to wipe raw chicken juice up with ewww!


Rob





Post# 295144 , Reply# 8   8/6/2008 at 16:35 (5,712 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
Cbosch

"There are many ways with which we can become eco friendly but I personally feel that we don't have to become dirty to be eco."

Do you mean I'm dirty?

I forgot to say...
I don't use high temperatures but I DO USE a strong desinfectant.
It' the same desinfectant used in hospitals. It kills 99.99% of germs, bacterias and other unwanted "visitors".

the instructions in the bottle says only 5 minutes is enough, but I aways use a bigger dose and the clothes soak in the solution for aprox. 1:10 minutes, which is the wash time.


Post# 295146 , Reply# 9   8/6/2008 at 16:54 (5,712 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
When I use cooler temps

iheartmaytag's profile picture
I bleach the hell our of everything.

OH-wait, I bleach the hell out of everything anyway. Let some nasty bacteria survive that.

Chlorine is your friend.


Post# 295158 , Reply# 10   8/6/2008 at 18:13 (5,712 days old) by kirk280980 ()        

Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I run at least two or three boil washes per week, for all the terry towels, microfibre cloths and mop heads I get through for work (the slight increase in the electricity bill still works out cheaper than sending the laundry out and putting it through my expenses). All you can do is try to use the energy more wisely, by always loading the machine to its full capacity and following good laundry practices so as to eliminate the need for rewashing.

Besides, there's a lot more to being green than merely reducing temperatures in the laundry. I know quite a few people who think they're "saving the planet" by washing everything at 30 degrees when, in reality, it's nothing more than a token gesture to make them feel a little less guilty about wasting energy elsewhere. They'd be far better off ditching the frivolous 4x4, turning out lights when they leave a room, and adjusting the time clock on their central heating/hot water so it isn't ticking over all day while they're out at work...


Post# 295172 , Reply# 11   8/6/2008 at 19:47 (5,712 days old) by lavamat_jon (UK)        

Hi there,

I have the same machine as you... have to say I haven't used 95*C for ages now. My rule of thumb is normally 60 degrees for whites and 30 or 40 for anything thats coloured, then 60 for sheets. I always use minimum iron unless it's a particular bulky load which I will then use cottons, and more often than not the short option and have to say laundry always comes out clean and fresh - on the other washer with default short cycle times I don't press anything and it will do a min iron 40 in 51 mins. IMO I don't really see the need for higher wash temperatures, just seems a waste of energy and time when a 60 degree wash will do just as good a job, as long as a decent biological detegrent is used. Have to say I've washed my underwear at a low temperature along with coloureds for years and haven't died or become ill as a consequence yet - nor do I get musty smelling laundry :-).

I'm not too fussed anymore about killing germs and bacteria - after all, the load becomes "contaminated" again as soon as you open the washing machine door so as long as the clothes are clean then that's good enough for me :-). I never use 75 or 95*C washes, yet don't consider myself as a dirty or unhygienic person - the world is too hung up nowadays about being antibacterial when there are far more important things going on in the world :-).

I'd say the best way to cut energy use would be to use the dryer less and use more green alternatives such as the washing line, or investing in a decent clothes airer, changing the timers on the hot water boiler, using the car less, not leaving TV's on standby etc... changing washer temperatures alone certainly won't make that big a dent in the electric bill.

Jon


Post# 295173 , Reply# 12   8/6/2008 at 19:50 (5,712 days old) by lavamat_jon (UK)        

Forgot to say that, energy usage aside, washing at excessive temperatures can cause coloureds to fade, shrinking to fabrics and increased wear on fabrics. Made the mistake once of washing whites at 95*C and ended up with T shirts and socks being too small!

Jon


Post# 295235 , Reply# 13   8/7/2008 at 06:27 (5,712 days old) by mrx ()        
Energy saving advice---

If you're doing your laundry correctly, bacteria shouldn't be a major concern. The type of bacteria that's likely to be found on your clothes do not survive normal washing, even at 40C. So, unless you or someone in your household has some kind of unusual skin infections you really do not need to worry too much about it. Just run a standard cotton wash with the correct dose of detergent for your water quality and the type of stains on the clothes. You clothes will be as hygenically cleaned as is necessary for normal use.

If you are cleaning items which are actually contaminated with bacteria, e.g. clothes that might have been in contact with raw meat, you can do a pre-wash with clear Detol disinfectant. However, DO NOT use the orange/brown 'traditional' variety of detol as it will stink your washing machine out for weeks and your clothes will smell like a hospital!

Kitchen clothes should really be soaked in a sink/bucket containing disinfectant before they're ever put into a washing machine.

Likewise, you can prewash towels with clear Detol should you wish to do so. Same goes for pet beds etc

To keep your machine healthy :

If you are running full-length cotton cycles at 40C or more and using good quality detergent, in general you won't have much of a problem, particularly in soft water areas.

Run a full length cotton cycle with a good standard detergent like Ariel or Persil (not-colour version) once in a while at 90C. Maybe once a month.
You can throw your kitchen clothes or other items that need to be sanitized into that cycle too to avoid wasting energy.

If you're in a hardwater area, use a water softener like calgon in each wash. There are also good alternatives from Tesco etc and even Lidl's water softener's pretty effective. These are not-phosphate based btw.

If you're in a hardwater area and your machine has become very gunked-up, you can get a washing machine descaler. It's available online. However, I've found Finish or Sun dishwasher cleaner equally effective.

Pour the cleaner straight into the drum and run a 90C cottons wash and turn on any enhancement options like "Aqua Plus" (Bosch) "Water Plus and Wash plus" (Miele) .. Superwash (hotpoint) etc..

The single biggest problem for washing machine gunking-up other than limescale tends to be fabric softener.

If you are using a lot of softener, you do need to run a hot wash now and then to clear it out. A good detergent should also be capable of washing away any softener gunk that's left in the drum, even at low temps.

Other tips:
Use the correct dose of detergent - over dosing leads to gunk build-up.
Use a good quality detergent and softener.
Avoid 2-in-one detergent/softener combinations as they leave residues.
Do not exclusively use the QuickWash option, this leaves a lot of residues behind! Many people do almost all of their washing on this option and then wonder why their machine gets disgusting inside!

In summary to save energy:
Reduce the temp from 60 to 40 in your colour washes
Try doing your whites at 40C but on a long white cotton cycle and put in a scoop of Vanish crystal white, (combination of oxygen bleacn + enzymes). Results are often better than a 90C wash!!
Use quickwash options where appropriate e.g. if you're just washing a very small load of lightly soiled items.
Do a monthly boil wash to keep you machine healthy!




Post# 295252 , Reply# 14   8/7/2008 at 08:47 (5,712 days old) by electron800 ()        
I recently experimented with washing everything at 40

But I have gone back to washing colours at 40 and whites at 60. On the whole the clothes were still clean at 40, but I have noticed when ironing under arms of shirts and tshirts washed at 40 there is a smell of sweat. I would wash everything at 60 but I don't want faded colours. Energy saving is all good but things still need to be clean =]

Post# 295259 , Reply# 15   8/7/2008 at 09:33 (5,712 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

Seems the other side fo the ponds washes whites cooler than we do and darks warmer than we do.

Post# 295268 , Reply# 16   8/7/2008 at 10:28 (5,711 days old) by mrx ()        

If your clothes still have odours after a 40C wash you're not using a good detergent or you're not using enough of it.


Post# 295290 , Reply# 17   8/7/2008 at 12:13 (5,711 days old) by hotpoint_42 ()        

hey thanks for all your posts.
i never really use the short option as i like a good long wash on the other hand i wanner keep wash times down lol. i use persil bio i think, its quite expensive. i will take some of your ideas into consideration. i have changed from 60 to 50 for my colours and for whites, tea towles, bath towels ect 75 - if it is quite a full load if not then ill move down to 60. ill see how that goes if not who cares lol. but thatnks for all your help. p.s i collect washers aswell. my hotpoint 9545 washer seems to lose power during washing ( going round ) it starts of slow trying to go fast but it runs slow when the timer clicks, it then speeds up why is this. its a yellow hotpoint with a spin slider. about 20+ old


Post# 295319 , Reply# 18   8/7/2008 at 14:59 (5,711 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

dyson2drums's profile picture
hello hotpoint_42

I wash colours on 50 or 40. 50 does a great job aswell as 40. However on the hotpoint wma 58 i had to use 50 or 60 as it didn't clean as well as dyson.

By the way i've sent you an email.
thanks for the pic of your washer and dryer.


Post# 295330 , Reply# 19   8/7/2008 at 15:46 (5,711 days old) by maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
Sudsman is a Certified Hospital Laundry Manager,

and he has said more than once that a key to bacteria control is not to OVERload a washer. He tested at a range of temperatures, and a range of load sizes.


I wash white bath towels and white underwear together at tank temperature, which for me is 150F. Boiling is 212F.


Almost everything else gets washed at "Warm," which for me and my machine is about 115F.


Lawrence/Maytagbear


Post# 295335 , Reply# 20   8/7/2008 at 16:38 (5,711 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
Well. I've been doing my bit, My colours and darks i alternate between 30 and 40, dependant on soil level. I've used the cool wash on my Crappoint as its slightly longer.

I still do towels and bedding on 60, Not changing that one! Whites get 40 i've done them on 30 with okay results, but i still feel 40 is necessary.

I'm also tryin not to use the dryer, so hanging everything on hangers and clothes airers! Though i do stick towels in for a quick blast in the dryer as i can't stand stiff towels!

I think once our baby comes along in december 40degrees+ maybe needed more often!

Hotpoint42: I would love to see a pic of your hotpoint if you have one!!!!!!!!

Darren


Post# 295346 , Reply# 21   8/7/2008 at 18:15 (5,711 days old) by electron800 ()        
I still have odours regardless of how much detergent

I use a lot less now but I have used up to 120ml (I have extremely soft water) and still found the under arms had odours when ironed. This is the same with persil and Ariel

Post# 295348 , Reply# 22   8/7/2008 at 18:16 (5,711 days old) by platinum6 ()        

Well I have to admit, I never seem to get round to using 30 on my Miele even though I should do. When I do use that temperature, it's only for delicates and woolens lol.

But I will start using lower temperature washes soon and with a bit of luck, the load will come out as clean as it would at a higher tempature.

I by default do boil-washes at 95 obviously, towels at 60, normal and dark loads at 40 and some delicate and wool loads at 30.

My washing habits could change as I hope to be more eco-friendly. After all, my Miele is rated AAA so that can only be a good thing lol.



Post# 295352 , Reply# 23   8/7/2008 at 18:26 (5,711 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

~I still have odours regardless of how much detergent....

At the risk of starting WWIII.

I was entrusted with washing clothing that had been flooded and was mildewed. A top-loader was necessary that used PLENTY OF WATER.

If your clothing still smells badly, may I sugggest a cool pre-wash in the front-loader, follwed by a soaking and agitation in the bathtub with plenty of detergent. Wring. Spin thoroughly in the washer. Re-wash the regular way. ADD TWO OR THREE EXTRA RINSES. SPIN THOROUGHLY.

Make sure your machine settings are such that there is spinning/extracting beween all washes and rinses.

Also if you line dry, you may want to put the items through the tumble dryer (once already dry, but not on the line for more than 24 hours) for 10 minutes heated and 10 minutes unheated to kill-off any remaing germs that may be causing odors.

Rinsing WELL and drying quickly help to prevent odors.
Alos, Your deodorant may be goo-ing up on the shirt and trapping odors. Add liquid detergent directly to that area

Good-luck.


Post# 295430 , Reply# 24   8/8/2008 at 03:33 (5,711 days old) by mrx ()        

With deodorants the main problem is that they're basically designed to be water-insoluble as they're designed to remain intact in sweaty warm areas. They can completely wreck clothes and become impossible remove. You end up with a gooey mixture of chemicals and trapped sweat. Perhaps consider using a different brand of deo?

There are "3 Ts" of washing controlled by your washing machine:

1) Time
2) Turbulence
3) Temperature

Time:
If you're having problems with odour removal, use a longer cycle. This will give the detergent's enzymes in particular a longer time to work.

Turbulence:
Select a cycle with decent agitation and don't stuff the machine so full that the clothes can't move about. The trick isn't necessarily vast quantities of water, it's moving a detergent solution through the clothes constantly. Most front loaders can do this very effectively, although there are exceptions...

Temperature:
Make sure that you've selected an appropriate temp. e.g. 40C.


Chemical action:
Then you've got the factors of the wash controlled by your detergent:

You said that you're using Persil (Unilever) powder. I've found that their recent forumlations of the powder detergents are pretty poor performers when it comes to odour removal. Other posters have said this too.

Perhaps try another detergent, e.g. Ariel ?

Or, alternatively try Persil Small and Mighty. It's pretty effective stuff.

Also, make sure that you're using the correct dose of any detergent for your water quality. If you're in a very hardwater area, you might consider getting some Calgon tablets and using them in each wash.

You can also get unusual problems with some t-shirts. I had one that really didn't smell very nice no matter what I did to it. Handwashing, machine washing, using any detergent known to man. It turned out to be some kind of a coating that had been used on the fabric itself. I ended up throwing it out.

Using a liquid detergent (not concentrated) on the 'pit' area might also help a lot. Often liquid detergents are better at breaking down fatty compounds and may actually have more impact than a powder on certain type of soiling.

Final tip:

Throw a scoop of Vanish wash booster into the dipensor drawer with your detergent at the start of the wash. This contains a cocktail of enzymes, but is safe to ue with colours. It has a very impressive impact on some of the toughest problems. In general it will remove ANYTHING.





Post# 295431 , Reply# 25   8/8/2008 at 03:39 (5,711 days old) by mrx ()        
Washing kitchen cloths/toilet cloths ... as mentioned above

A washing machine is for washing clothes, not floor cloths. It's generally a very bad idea to introduce any of these filthy items to your washing machine. If you must wash something like that, run a 95C programme or, run one immediately afterwards, or use a disinfectant solution in the washing machine like Dettol clear.

Just remember that your washing machine handles items which are in direct contact with your skin and with sensitive areas of your body!!

Would you get into a bath after having washed the dog in it without giving it a good clean out first?

I think not..
So, basically think of your washing machine the same way regardless of whether it's a front loader or a top loader.. Treat it like it's your bathtub!


Post# 295442 , Reply# 26   8/8/2008 at 05:58 (5,711 days old) by jeffg ()        

Actually washing machines *are* for washing floor cloths. One just needs to use a real washing machine.

Look, the bottom line is, front loaders are disgusting. They've always been disgusting. Even before all this absurd eco-hysteria kicked in, and people started feeling guilty about using more than a cup and a half of water to do their laundry.

Really dirty/bacteria-filled/etc clothing (or floor rags, or whatever else) has never been a problem for most top loaders. Why? Because these machines simply use enough WATER and AGITATION to get the job done. Hot enough water + some bleach + lots of agitation, and even bacteria such as streptococcus (which, incidentally, survived nearly two years on the surface of our *moon*) is killed in short order.

Tumbling is great for drying. It stinks (sometimes literally) for washing.


Post# 295448 , Reply# 27   8/8/2008 at 06:40 (5,711 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        
The pack-rat friend had dozens of huge leaf & lawn bags fiul

To get rid of the foul mildew and odors I empolyed all three of my washers!


Top loading modern GE-
Pre wash and rinse with pine-oil and detergent. Deodorant/disnfectant and spritual cleaner!

Top-loading vintage GE Filter-flo.
HEAVY cycle/programme. (Wash-Rinse-Rinse)
detergent, phosphates in wash, cheap water softener in the first rinse.

Front-loader.
Three to five rinses and a super-fast spin.

Of course the dryer's lint filter was over-taxed (and filling FAST) as all the mechanical action was harsh on fibers. The dyrer was set to "inferno" temp and all items were purposely over-dried.

In the end the itmes were nearly good-as-new.


Both styles of washers have their advantages and diadvantages. One must simply adjust and be smart to take advantage fo the benefits offered by each!


Post# 295452 , Reply# 28   8/8/2008 at 07:00 (5,711 days old) by mrx ()        

Whether the machine is top or front loading, uses an agitator, a drum, a pulsator, a pair of electromechanical robot hands etc really makes no difference in terms of bacteria killing. If anything, a front loader is potentially more hygienic as it has the possibility of a "boil wash" cycle to sanitise the drum completely. However, you can achieve similar results in any machine by adding chemicals to the water.

There are a few things to remember.

The majority of bacteria and viruses will actually be taken care of by a warm wash with a good detergent in either front or top loading machines. It's just really if you have a specific concern, such as a family member with some kind of contageous skin disorder, or someone in your household who is immune suppressed e.g. has had a transplant and is on anti-rejection medication, is currently undergoing certain types of chemotherapy for cancer or has AIDS and would be highly vulnerable to bacteria/viruses.

In those cases, in any type of washing machine you should use a proper laundry sanitizer in the correct concentration.

It might also be a consideration to isolate their laundry.

Floor cloths, dirty rags etc should only be washed in a disinfectant solution or, if your machine allows, boiled. They are not normal clothes, and shouldn't be washed with them.

The reality of modern fabrics means that it is not possible to boil everything nor is it advisable to use the concentrations of chlorine bleach that would be necessary to kill off the bugs.

There are perfectly good laundry sanitising products available for such situation.

If you're in the UK/Ireland you can use Dettol clear disinfectant in your front loader without any problems. Just follow the dosage instructions on the back of the bottle. It will wipe out EVERYTHING and leave the laundry perfectly hygenically clean.

The concern for washing machine health and laundry hygeine is where people do very short washes with very low temps with very little detergent. This applies to both types of washing machine.

I know I came across someone in Boston who had black mould growing in their toploader. She ran all her washes on cold/cool and used 1/4 the recommended dose and used an eco-detergent. The machine was full of undisolved detergent 'gunk' and was horrible.

To fix the problem, we ran long hot wash without clothes and on heavy agitation full to the top with a strong detergent. It readily broke down the residues and most of the gunk in the machine. We followed that off with a wash with bleach.

"stinky washing machine syndrome" is generally avoidable in either type of washing machine with the simplest of steps and really has nothing whatsoever to do with the choice of wash action used by the machine i.e. H-axis drum or V-axis agitator.

In Europe, Chlorine bleach is simply not used at all for laundry. This is because detergent manufacturers moved towards longer acting peroxide bleaching methods as it was possible to create 'universal' powders that were safe to use with coloured clothes at lower temps and then took on a more aggressive bleaching action when heated up.

When automatic washing machines became the norm in the 60s and 70s, there was a huge leap forward in enzyme technology. The result was that the new 'automatic' detergents i.e. for h-axis washing machines didn't need bleach to produce very good cleaning results. The machines all have cycles which are designed to wash the clothes at temps that are optimised for enzyme activity.

Whiteness is achieved with milder oxygen-based bleaching formulas and optical brighteners.

If you want to absolutely sanitise, you add something like Dettol or similar sanitisors to the wash and they will destroy every bacterium and virus known to man!

Alternatively, you wash at a high temp.

Regardless of what washing method you use, you really just have to be aware of what you're doing if you're laundering potentially contaminated materials.

Also, your tumble dryer or even line drying will go a long way towards killing bacteria too by heating them and drying them out.


Post# 295467 , Reply# 29   8/8/2008 at 08:27 (5,711 days old) by jeffg ()        

You can't boil wash anything with the amount of water most of today's front loaders use. The same is true for effective bleaching (whether chlorine or peroxide).

And most FLs have at least some mold present in them, often enough to smell.

Just disgusting.


Post# 295476 , Reply# 30   8/8/2008 at 09:14 (5,711 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

I use front loaders since 1980 and I´ve never had any problem with mold.

The "guilty" for the mold isn´t the machine, but the stupid user that keep the door closed when it´s not in use and never do a sanitization cycle.


Post# 295477 , Reply# 31   8/8/2008 at 09:24 (5,711 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Jeff

Do you have a front loader?
Have you ever used a modern front loader as you main washer for at least a month or two?

I think you should try it. And I´m sure your opinion about them will change a lot.

HE front loaders clean, sanitize, rinse and spin much better than standard top loaders.
This is not "my opinion", but the result of years and years of tests I did in a laundry lab.
If you can´t get good results in a front loader, then you must review your laundry methods because there´s something wrong.


Post# 295478 , Reply# 32   8/8/2008 at 10:12 (5,710 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

dyson2drums's profile picture
Hello hotpoint_42

Just to let you know I have sent you an email on your hotmail address.

dyson2drums


Post# 295534 , Reply# 33   8/8/2008 at 17:33 (5,710 days old) by jeffg ()        

Thomas, your age isn't listed in your profile, but it's possible I've been using FL washing machines since before you were even born. If you found HE FL's clean and sanitize better than top loaders then something was terribly wrong with your testing methods. I'm curious to know which top loaders you used for your tests.

Post# 295539 , Reply# 34   8/8/2008 at 18:23 (5,710 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Jeff, I'm much younger than you, but I used and tested more washers than a norml person can use.
For each model launched by Electrolux, I tested other 10 models from the same category available in each country.

More than that... let's think globally... why 100% of the commercial laundriers prefer tumble action instead of agitation?

Both systems have their pros and cons but, technicaly, tumble is better.

Of course both systems are different and th user MUST adjust the laundry habits to the system.



Post# 295544 , Reply# 35   8/8/2008 at 18:49 (5,710 days old) by jeffg ()        

FL washers use far less water/detergent and are cheaper to operate. That's why most commercial laundries use them. Not because they clean as well as TL's.

And you didn't answer my question. What TL's did you test?


Post# 295547 , Reply# 36   8/8/2008 at 19:04 (5,710 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Jeff

Your question s anwered.
I can't remember the numver of washers, but I'm sure there are more than 500 different models from many countries and continents.

at least 10 models from each country

Ex. When I created insight. I studied hoovers and mieles, siemens, hotpoints, etc...

When I created the Top8 turbo clean series, I studied brastemp and consul(whirlpool) 5 models each.


It's an internal policy at Electrolux. WE MUST TEST THE COMPETITOR'S MODELS.
not to copy, but to make better


Thiking of you!


Post# 295554 , Reply# 37   8/8/2008 at 19:57 (5,710 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
And Jeff...

Thank God there are people like you, that preffers top loaders.

Create a top loader is much easier than a front loader.


Post# 295555 , Reply# 38   8/8/2008 at 20:02 (5,710 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        
Thomas some Americans cant accept usEuropoeans being so clea

aquarius1984's profile picture
Whirlpool AMERICAN Toploader Rated G for wash results on a scale of A - C, A being highest G lowest due to NO internal water heater which supports a longer contact time with detergent at the right temperature, a really diluted down detergent solution (due to 5/6 times more water used) and less agitation due to said water and cushioning of fabrics in the More than needed water consumption.

Zanussi Jetsystem rated A for wash - lower water consumption and better agitation.

I tend to just walk on by when such folk have attitude problems.

FL's DO clean far superior than TL's but sadly some folk dont understand why.

Best leave em to it :)




Post# 295557 , Reply# 39   8/8/2008 at 20:28 (5,710 days old) by decodriveboy (FL, US)        

I have to jump in here and support Jeff's opinion. The people who disagree with him so far are not living in the States, where our front loading washers are built vastly different than yours. They literally do use about only a cup of water per fill, and that is indeed disgusting as well as foolish. You guys are defending a type of front loader that does not exist here in the U.S.

Post# 295558 , Reply# 40   8/8/2008 at 20:30 (5,710 days old) by jeffg ()        

> Whirlpool AMERICAN Toploader

Honest now, Robert: have you ever even set hands on a Speed Queen TL or classic Lady Kenmore?

Same question goes to Thomas.

Whirlpool has not always had a virtual monopoly on washing machines.

As for country bashing, that's pointless. America is slowly being converted into another European country: full of depressing homes, families living hand to mouth from paycheck to paycheck and walking around in stained underwear. Our middle class has all but disppeared thanks to "globalization".


Post# 295569 , Reply# 41   8/8/2008 at 22:01 (5,710 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Jeff
Here in Brazil, the famous Lady Kenmore design was used until early 90's, when Brastemp (Whirlpool's brand in Brazil) decide to launch the revolutionary Brastemp Mondial.

I know what you mean and I know american washers.

Right at this moment, I'm right in front my Affinity washer, waiting for it to finish the spin cycle (2 more minutes)

I know there are huge differences between american end european front loaders.

most people believes they use "1 cup" of water just because they can't see the water.
At same time, european front loaders can't be opened because the water level is above the door.

You MUST consider the american washers are bigger than europeans. our drums are deeper and our doors are higher.

That is the reason we can't see the water.
but the water is there and there is more water than in an european compact FL.

so... at this point, they are the same!
fill a HE FL without the clothes inside. You'll see the water level.

also, try to wash a normal load put a lot of coloured items and only 1 red item.
you'll see the rollover. (in a front loader, the rollover is horizontal)
all the parts of the clothes passes by the water.


it's the same as a shower... you can take a bath (top loader) or you can take a shower (HE front loader.)

Your body will be clean in both systems, but in a shower you'll spend less water.



Post# 295570 , Reply# 42   8/8/2008 at 22:04 (5,710 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
Ptrick

take a look at your MSN.

Post# 295573 , Reply# 43   8/8/2008 at 22:07 (5,710 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
Jeff

try to use a HE FL an let it drain the wash and first spin before the first rinse in a bucket or other kind of container.

You'll see how much water it uses. and you'll see they don't use so less water you think.


Post# 295582 , Reply# 44   8/8/2008 at 22:26 (5,710 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
Jeff...

What is this about?
I thought we were discussing "eco friendly", not xenophobia.
The same goes to you Robert.

No matter if we are north american, south american, european or asian.

Our planet is only one and we MUST fight togeter against our environment destruction...

Of course I disagree completelly with this stupid non HE top loaders being banned in a few years.

I think USA should do the same as Europe. First create a massive marketing and let the people free to choose the system they prefer.

Here in Brazil is like that. The manufacturers MUST offer HE products, but they can also offer non he models.

But the HE front loaders are becoming popular here in brazil because their prices are starting to be reduced.

If you use it according to the instructions manual and "relearn" how to do your laundry, the results will be AMAZING!

More than excellent results, when people see the water and electricity bills reducing, they start to love it and the famous "mouth-to-mouth" marketing begins.

There's nothing more efficient than a satisfied consumer...
They comment with the neighbours, the hairdresser, the friends. some of them buy the recommended HE washer, get the same result and comment to other people, and the endless chain reaction begins.


At Electrolux the designers and engineers respect the local legislation and the consumer preferences.
Of course americans would love an european front loader, but unfortunatelly the government does not allow this kind of washer.
So the washers are designed to be as efficient as possible and give the best results they can.
By the end of the party, the result is the same a an european FL.

If you still believe they use too less water, you can just reduce your load.


Post# 295601 , Reply# 45   8/9/2008 at 01:21 (5,710 days old) by decodriveboy (FL, US)        

Thomas I think you have good intentions here but the fact remains that an adequate amount of water is needed to wash and rinse clothes, and there is indeed a big difference in the water levels of US and Euro machines -- the Euro machines use the right amount and here they do not.

There's no enviromental or energy savings when I have to wash and rewash and rewash a shirt because there is not enough water to flush out the odor. If it wasn't for me tricking out the pressure switch on my Frigidaire FL, I would have gotten rid of it long ago and gotten an old top loader. A washer which doesn't use enough water is absolutely useless to me.

People must be allowed to have choices. If manufacturers wish to set the nonexistent water levels as the default choice, fine, but we should be able to override that setting at any time according to our personal needs. I don't need fifty cycles and useless gimmicks -- I want water.


Post# 295611 , Reply# 46   8/9/2008 at 04:20 (5,710 days old) by electron800 ()        
Modern european front loaders also have water levels which a

But the washing results are perfect in any machine I've used. I think the major problem with the US machines is that since people are so used to top loaders, the manufacturers have made front loaders using european water levels but much shorter wash times. My Whirlpool for example, uses 49l (roughly 13 US gallons) to wash a 5.5 (12lb) load and takes 2hrs 30mins to complete a cycle. The most energy efficient machine (an AEG) uses 47litres (about 12.5 US gallons) to wash 7kg (about 15lb). Another major issue is probably that some US front loaders don't have heaters, reducing wash quality. It dosent really have anything to do with drum capacity because the machine uses more water to compensate. After all, nowadays we too have 9kg (20lb) washers on the market and I havent heard any complaints about their wash results. On the other hand I don't think a top loader would produce poorer wash results than a euro front loader. It's just a different method of washing and requires different techniques to get good results.

Post# 295615 , Reply# 47   8/9/2008 at 04:56 (5,710 days old) by jeffg ()        
takes 2hrs 30mins to complete a cycle

Matthew, thanks for that post. I was starting to think I was the crazy one in this discussion.

Even at its maximum wash time and water level, a cycle takes ~30 minutes in our SQ top loader.


Post# 295625 , Reply# 48   8/9/2008 at 06:16 (5,710 days old) by mrx ()        

Jeff..

Quote:
As for country bashing, that's pointless. America is slowly being converted into another European country: full of depressing homes, families living hand to mouth from paycheck to paycheck and walking around in stained underwear. Our middle class has all but disppeared thanks to "globalization".

That is a totally unfair, unjustified, rather nasty anti-European rant based on no facts and is not representative of European houses, living standards or lifestyles at all.

I really think you should chill out a bit, and also perhaps take a visit to Europe sometime. I can assure you we do not walk around in stained underwear, generally don't live hand-to-mouth, nor do we have depressing homes.

This was a discussion about how to be more eco-friendly, not some strange US vs European ranting session.

There were umpteen different types of washers in Europe in the 1950s and 60s, including large top loading agitators. The front loader became the de facto standard in Europe starting in the 1960s. It wasn't a case of anyone compelling consumers to move to that mode of washing, people preferred it for a whole variety of reasons and it wasn't necessarily for environmental reasons either. Nor were early front loaders all that efficient. They often filled up to half way up the door and used lots of hot water. People preferred them for a whole variety of reasons and that's why the became the standard here, not because someone declared that they ought to be. The market decided.

In most of Europe top loading machines were considered to be 'old fashioned' and were associated with labour-intensive semi-automatics from the 1930s to 1950s. Front loading machines very quickly became symbolic of fully automatic and truly 'set and forget'.

There was also a major design aesthetic shift in Europe after WWII when Bauhaus inspired modernist designs became highly fashionable in kitchens. This was the beginning of the modularised kitchen with fully built in or semi-integrated appliances throughout.

Front loaders allowed for tight integration of a washer (and dryer) under a kitchen counter, or in a stack.

European houses tend not to have basements, so the washer usually either lives in the kitchen (integrated), this is particularly the case in apartments and smaller homes. Or, it will live in a utility room off the kitchen, typically built under a countertop. The other alternative location is usually the garage, and typically the machines get stacked.

For apartment dwellers, the standard European style front loader also meant the end of the trudge up and down to shared laundry facilities in apartment complexes and all the associated problems with maintenence, security, cleanliness etc that goes with those kinds of facilities.

What has driven the efficiency levels on appliances here is the fact that they're all energy rated from A to G (a = good g = bad). These details are stuck on the front of every appliance on display at a store. Consumers tend to want to go for AAA machines, A (energy) A (wash) A (spin) where possible. Manufacturers respond to this by making their machines as efficient as possible.

I've used both front and top loaders on both sides of the Atlantic and I've found both types of machines very effective.

I reckon that FL machines do tend to have better programme options and, because of the fact that they have more control over water temp, the possibility of longer wash times and the detergent concentration in the wash solution is higher, they do tend to be able to tackle very bad staining without resorting to applying pre-treatment. To be honest, most normal washing machine users don't want to be scrunching liquid detergent or spraying on pre-treatment to laundry. You just want to be able to chuck it into the machine, forget about it and come back to clean clothes.

There'll always be some manufacturer in either market that will produce some pile of **** washing machine that does a terrible job.

E.g. I used a BOL whirlpool TL in the US that covered my shirts in lint. Made a complete mess. Then, I used a Speed Queen machine and had no such problems.

Likewise, in Europe I've used a BOL Whirlpool front loader that basically had bumps in the drum instead of paddles. This made the laundry bounce up and down rather than tumble and it did a terrible job. Poor washing performance and lousy rinsing. Then, using a Miele or even my Hotpoint Aqualtis and the results are exceptionally good every time. Even, on the quick wash (30 mins)

I really think it depends on the model and the manufacturer. I'm sure there are good and bad US FLs too.


Post# 295645 , Reply# 49   8/9/2008 at 10:59 (5,709 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
"the Euro machines use the right amount and here they d

Honestly?

This is a political question.

Design an european washer is fabulous. We don´t need to follow rules. they must be excellent and they must be efficient. if possible AAA. If it´s good, the consumers will buy it. if it´s not the consumers won´t buy it. simple as 123.

We´re free to use our creativity at our own pace.

I remember my colleagues in panic when the american government announced those ridiculous HE standards. Politicians DON´T do laundry. Probably Mr. Bush doesn´t know the difference between a wringer washer and a HE washer.


The designers and engineers had a short time to develop a new technology and make it works. The only solution for this huge problem was very simple: Change the laundry habits!
HE front loaders are excellent! Designers and engineers did their best to make it clean using "2 teaspoons of water", but the user must relearn how to use a washer and forget everything they are used to do with a non-HE top loader.

After the consumers learn how to dose the detergent, how to sort the load and how to choose the cycles, they start to love the HE washers because they clean better, rinse better and spin faster.

A green bird came to my window a few years ago and told me for those who can´t get used to the new technologies, at least Electrolux (frigidaire) washers do have a trick to increase the water levels but I'm not allowed to talk about it.



Post# 295731 , Reply# 50   8/9/2008 at 22:14 (5,709 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
"Bacteria is simply NOT killed NOR reduced in anyway at

launderess's profile picture
That simply is not a wholly true, nor accurate statement.

Various bacteria, viruses, "germs", and so forth are affected at different temperatures. E. Coli, the most common germ found on laundry can be killed at temperatures of 160F held for 10 to 20 minutes. However there are so many factors affecting laundry practice that even if the laundry is done according to this method it still would have sizable colonies of E coli and other germs living.

Like washing one's hands or even hard surfaces, the purpose is more to sanitise than disenfect. The former is the process of reducing germ levels to a point where they are not likely to cause disease, the latter is totally eliminating (or near to as possible), all germs, bacteria, moulds etc.

Good laundry practices involve five parameters: water quality, mechanical action,temperature, chemicals, and heat.

Mechanical action, combined with proper chemical levels and heat (which activates chemicals), by and large will produce laundry that is sanitary for most purposes. Germs and such simply are removed from laundry and transferred to the wash and rinse water, where they are flushed away down the drain. True the germs are still living, but that doesn't matter for our purposes.

The above is why various posters, have stated so often that in tests done in their commercial laundries, temps of 120F to 125F were perfectly fine for clean and sanitary laundry. Telling is the fact that when machines are over loaded, remaining bacteria levels increased. One can assume from this that because of over loading the required mechanical,chemcial and other actions could not reach proper levels. What is more grime,filth and germs were not able to be rinsed away from laundry.

As things go, thermal disenfection is not the most accurate way, as there are too many variables and too many germs to account for. There are many chemicals that can and will disenfect in cool or cold temperatures, including chlorine bleach. Problem with chlorine bleach is one either must reduce germ levels prior to adding, or titre the level of product to soil levels, amoung other things. This is why commercial laundries use chlorine bleach as a different cycle.

In "olden days" the only time laundry was sent to the boiling pots before being soaked, and or otherwise cleaned first, is if it came from a known infected source. Indeed have several vintage laundry manuals from the 1920's or so through the 1950's, in several languages, that clearly tell housewives, laundresses and such that boiling of laundry went out when washing machines came in.

Boiling and or hot water washing is hard on textiles. It was back in the days, and is still true today. Persons compensated in the old days for all that boiling, beating and such by buying mainly pure linen and or other heavy and sturdy things which could withstand harsh laundry treatment. Even then housewives and such bemoaned the wearing out of their laundry from commercial laundries and or overly aggressive laundry workers.

One should also keep in mind, the mania for boiling and or doing laundry in very hot or at least hot water grew out of a period of time when the best defence against disease was not getting sick. While slowing people began to associate filth with germs and disease, there wasn't much anyone could do about infections until modern antibiotics came on the scene after WWII. Until then the best one could hope for was that one's own body's immune system would fight off the infection.

Housewives, mothers, nurses, and the lot got their marching orders, and the war on filth began. Everything was scrubbed, hosed down, boiled, bleached (with chlorine bleach), and so forth in the effort to protect one's charges from disease.

Aside from such infectious diseases such as smallpox, there is little to fear from not having boiled one's laundry to death.



Post# 295757 , Reply# 51   8/10/2008 at 04:58 (5,709 days old) by jeffg ()        

Large surface areas inside a FL (specifically, the upper two-thirds of its outer tub, most of its door seal etc) are never subject to immersion in water, and therefore are never sanitized. It's why so many FL's have mold problems, and yet another reason why TL's are superior.

Post# 295762 , Reply# 52   8/10/2008 at 05:16 (5,709 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
You do realise that BOTH tubs go round and round, thus at some point all surfaces, except the outer part of the outer drum, come into contact with water.

Top loading washing machines are not by any means some sort of paragon to cleanliness. Ask any repair person who has pulled machines apart to show you what is lurking beneath agitators and between tubs. Take a look also at the high water line and or above the high water mark beneath the rim of the inner tub as well.


Post# 295765 , Reply# 53   8/10/2008 at 05:37 (5,709 days old) by jeffg ()        

Well, after 40+ years I'm still waiting to run into a TL with a mold problem. I can however point you to countless posts from FL owners, asking why their clothes smell so bad.

Post# 295769 , Reply# 54   8/10/2008 at 07:02 (5,709 days old) by electron800 ()        
I can't understand why a top loader would be less likely

I'd imagine the innards are pretty similar, just turned on their side. Providing you regularly use a bleach containing powder and do regular hot washes and leave the door open between cycles there should not be a problem with smells or mould. I can't see why this is not the case with top loaders too. Ofcourse if any of these things are not carried out, mould is more likely to grow, and there are a lot of people who do not do this often enough and therefore their machine develop mould problems.


Post# 295775 , Reply# 55   8/10/2008 at 07:35 (5,709 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
Mattew

The answer is very simple...

ventilation, my dear, ventilation!

Inside a top loader you can see a gap between the drum and the lid.
This small gap is enough to ventilate and dry the drum between wash days.
Front loaders are hermetic.

I own front loaders since the 80's. I growed with a front and a top loader at home.
My mom always kept the door open and we NEVER had probems with mould or smells.


Post# 295776 , Reply# 56   8/10/2008 at 07:35 (5,709 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

Methinks that even with the top/lid down a top-loader gets air and the tub dries. Most do not have a boot/gasket/seal around the lid.

Top-loaders may perhaps have fewer mold issues in that chlorine bleach tends to be used in them (at least in my area/country). I guarantee to you that someone who uses waxy fabric-softener has mold issues.

A good occasional boil wash with dishwasher detergent would proabably eliminate front-loader mold issues.


Post# 295777 , Reply# 57   8/10/2008 at 07:36 (5,709 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

oh Thomas we think alike! LOL

Post# 295781 , Reply# 58   8/10/2008 at 08:02 (5,709 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

yes, we posted at same time...

Post# 295803 , Reply# 59   8/10/2008 at 11:44 (5,708 days old) by mrx ()        

It's pretty simple, follow the instructions that come with your machine!

If you're not using it regularly, just leave the door open. It's as simple as that.

We've had front loaders for my entire life and I've never had ANY issue with mould or smells in any of them. In fact, if you take a whiff inside the drum of most washing machines they unsurprisingly smell like laundry detergent and quite pleasant.

Front Loaders MUST either be used every other day, or left open. It's as simple as that.

Also, it's best not to dose the machine up with huge amounts of gunk like waxy fabric softener. Particularly, if you're not doing many warm washes or are using very gentle detergents.







Post# 295838 , Reply# 60   8/10/2008 at 14:43 (5,708 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
Toploader

foraloysius's profile picture
The Maytag Atlantis models had issues with mold, but these machines have a seal on the lid. If the lid is closed there is no ventilation. Most of the mold was found on the bottomside of the top panel and was hard to remove if the machine wasn't opened for cleaning IIRC.

Post# 295857 , Reply# 61   8/10/2008 at 18:01 (5,708 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
hello

here is my tip regroup into a single wash pile all of your hot water wash load and wash those toghter but the rest of your clothes wash them using cold water this might help you reduce your bill and for rinse water use a cold water rinse and when its nice and sunny hang your clothe to dry outside and use the dryer when its raining or late at night?

Hope this helps you


Post# 295932 , Reply# 62   8/10/2008 at 22:54 (5,708 days old) by phillygrl ()        

I've only owned front loaders. I've never had a problem with mold in a machine. I have always let the door stay open, run my whites with hot water, and my clothes and washing machine are always clean and fresh. My first washer was a White Westinghouse Spacemates stack. I had 27 good years from it, and passed it on to a member of this board. Hope he's enjoying it as much as I did. Now I own Thomas' Affinity stack. It is a wonderful machine. And I can see the water level. It uses less than the Westy, and produces superior results.

You do not need a top loader to remove mildew and odor. Years ago a load of towels was accidentally left in the washer over a vacation. Talk about stink! Borax, soap and hot water got the odor out of the towels. A chlorine wash without laundry cleaned out the machine. I love my front loader and would never buy a top loader.


Post# 295965 , Reply# 63   8/11/2008 at 07:07 (5,708 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
Thomas' Affinity?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Woooooooooow

Affinity is not my project!!!
I just helped to create 2 of it´s programs...

All the other parts were designed by other team.


Post# 295966 , Reply# 64   8/11/2008 at 07:08 (5,708 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
Lisa

Please take a look at your messenger.

Post# 296351 , Reply# 65   8/13/2008 at 01:51 (5,706 days old) by electron1100 (England)        
Smelly Washing Machines

electron1100's profile picture
Wow what a thread!

Over here in the UK since the introduction of the new green religion, washing machine manufacturers have had to deal with making machines more efficient, which is not a bad thing in itself.

Also consummers are generally using lower temperatures to wash cloths in and of course the machines are using pathetically small amounts of water to do this.

Whilst I am on this the adverts for "turn to 30" from Aerial are a joke as they forget to mention the evil chemicals in the powder that will also destroy the enviroment

Constant washing in low temperatures (30-50 degrees) does not get rid of grease and fat........this just builds up in the machine and eventually you end up with black goo and a rotten smell in the machines.

A service wash (90 degree) will help get rid of this, but an even easier option and very cheap too is to use a table spoon of washing soda with each wash, this is a very strong degreasant that is as old as the hills your gran would have used it .

It is safe for all types of fabrics and is cheap as chips, it also softens water, it is one the best kept secrets in the washing world that i know of

I have old front loaders that wash in realistic amounts of water and wash in a fraction of the time my modern Bosch front loader does with excellent results. The Bosch manages the same providing it is used with "aqua plus" and "wash plus" but of course it takes over 2 hours to complete a 40 degree cottons wash, where as the old front loaders take 55 minutes to do the same.

This green religion is a worrying and dangerous trend even though our goverment are spending billions trying indoctrinate this nation fortunately people in this country are waking up to the fact that it is a political scam

Right thats my advice on washing and my opinion on all this green crap

Gary



Post# 296492 , Reply# 66   8/13/2008 at 15:33 (5,705 days old) by retro-man (- boston,ma)        

Maytag Neptune front loader. Have forgotten laundry in there for 3 days opened the door smelled just like it had finished the cycle. I never leave the door open. Never a mold or smell issue in 9 years now. Maybe the luck of the draw and I got a good one.

Post# 299187 , Reply# 67   8/25/2008 at 18:45 (5,693 days old) by platinum6 ()        

Interesting thread here, it's funny how different machines operate and how they use varying amounts of water and energy lol.

Maybe 1 day all machines will have an Eco-Meter to show you how energy efficent they're being, the only machine that has it so far is the Hotpoint Aqualtis. The other brands should hopefully follow suit lol.



Post# 299870 , Reply# 68   8/28/2008 at 15:37 (5,690 days old) by rolls_rapide (.)        
And now my tuppence-worth...

I was in Tesco the other day and bumped into a friend. He bought a Hoover front-loader last December and it was fine until recently. He was complaining about brown gunge on his white articles and a musty smell. He said he had tried a boil wash or two, but never had much success at removing the residue.

He told me that he used liquid detergent AND washed all items at 30 degrees C.

I told him to use a powder with a bleaching action (he chose DAZ) and do a couple of maintenance washes at 95 deg C., and to wash his clothes at 40-60 deg C.

I'll be sure to ask him the result, the next time I see him.


Post# 299913 , Reply# 69   8/28/2008 at 19:12 (5,690 days old) by irishwashguy (Salem,Oregon.............A Capital City)        
My two cents

irishwashguy's profile picture
I have a Miele and see no harm in using the higher temps. I have a load going at this moment that would be equal to 75 (170). There is just no way to get them clean any other way. Maybe use the shorter program, although, I do not have my machine even hooked up to the water heater, that does save as far as that goes. My machine has a heater, it only heats what it needs, and leaves the rest for other things. I have never believed in using chemicals like bleach. That is really bad for your clothes, for you if you ingest it, and for you machine, especially the rubber gasket. I had to replace that once, and trust me, that is not cheap. I would say go with your gut. I use shorter program times with things that are not as dirty, and longer when it requires. Most of my clothes, I usually try to keep it at: for dark colors 105 f (30) and for whites, 140 or (60). Don't forget that the soap is there as well to help in your crusade against germs. Washing a full load is the first thing. My Miele is quite intelligent. Sometimes I will pic a program time, and it will shorten it and in some cases with the rinse, make it longer. Don't sweat it! :)


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