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New Washer Energy Savings
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Post# 301352   9/4/2008 at 08:20 (5,684 days old) by westyslantfront ()        

I would like to know, if after paying about an average of
$1,200.00 on a modern front loader as opposed to $450.00 for a
top loading Whirlpool/Kenmore/Maytag, if over a period of time,
the front loader will result in a large energy/water savings that will exceed the extra cost in purchase.


Ross





Post# 301354 , Reply# 1   9/4/2008 at 08:35 (5,684 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

Probably not at the current prices. But those prices will eventually fall as the novelty wears off, and the market becomes more saturated with front-loaders.

I'm actually appalled at the high price of DRYERS (the ones that match the front-loaders)these days.

Since when does a dryer's cost approach or equal that of a washer?


Post# 301364 , Reply# 2   9/4/2008 at 09:25 (5,684 days old) by golittlesport (California)        

golittlesport's profile picture
Probably not if a person pays $1200. But if they purchase a $600 Frigidaire front loader, I think in the long run they will be way ahead.

Post# 301365 , Reply# 3   9/4/2008 at 09:29 (5,684 days old) by runematic (southcentral pa)        

runematic's profile picture
If both washers need no repairs, I'd think it evens out. If there is a problem w/ a FL, look out. Repairs are much more costly on a FL vs TL, especially if the main bearings or computers go out on the FL. It also depends on the cost of energy in your neck of the woods.

Post# 301376 , Reply# 4   9/4/2008 at 10:31 (5,684 days old) by tuthill ()        
Rich

You said exactly what I was about to say. The Frigidaire FLs are plenty cheap and are very solid machines. It wouldn't take long for the water and energy savings to add up, especially for a large family. Modern top-loaders suck anyways. I think it's great that they're going to stop producing them.

Post# 302269 , Reply# 5   9/8/2008 at 17:34 (5,679 days old) by bleacho ()        
frigidaire IS the best buy..

its great value, great washer.. im on my second frig front loader. and i swear by it.. its amazing... put your money there- the best value in front loaders..

Post# 302276 , Reply# 6   9/8/2008 at 18:02 (5,679 days old) by jeffg ()        

> Modern top-loaders suck anyways.

For some reason you insist on repeating this silly claim. You obviously don't have much (or maybe any?) experience with current Speed Queen top loaders.


Post# 302335 , Reply# 7   9/8/2008 at 21:52 (5,679 days old) by tuthill ()        
"silly claim"

This silly claim is my humble opinion, thank you very much.


MODERN TOP LOADERS SUCK - NO EXCEPTIONS


Post# 302341 , Reply# 8   9/8/2008 at 22:33 (5,679 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

The Speed Queens are great when they're new and will provide many years of faithful service.

They arent infalliable however. Huge numbers of them over here in the 8-12 year mark are out for scrap or up for sale with the lower seal having failed and taken out the bearing.

The cost of replacement is around $240AUD and requires complete dissasembley of the machine to get to the bearing. What starts as a slow leak usually damages the motor connector on the wiring harness and quite often the motor. (Both by overheating and arcing)

I love the slow longer stroke, but over here they're about $500 more than a Whirlpool and only last about as long. Not to mention the horrible painted top that over time peels off and leaves bare rusty metal. The new painted top Whirlpools could also have the same problem, but the Speed Queens always have unless treated properly.

Compared to what is available today, they're great, but they wont last for 20 years without maintenance.


Post# 302352 , Reply# 9   9/8/2008 at 22:58 (5,679 days old) by jeffg ()        

Painted top? On which models? Our Speed Queen AWS76 has a porcelain top.

Post# 302356 , Reply# 10   9/8/2008 at 23:01 (5,679 days old) by volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)        
Water savings...

volvoguy87's profile picture
An inexpensive front loader might make sense, BUT which will last longer? A GOOD top loader might outlast a front loader by a factor of 2. A good older Maytag might outlast a new front loader by a factor of 8 or more. How many washer replacements are factored into water savings?

It's not all about water usage, it's also about durability. I think both the EPA bean counters and consumers (there, I said it) forgot about durability. Manufacturers largely forgot, but the consumers never reminded them.

Never underestimate the average consumer... (sadly)
Dave


Post# 302381 , Reply# 11   9/8/2008 at 23:33 (5,679 days old) by golittlesport (California)        

golittlesport's profile picture
The first Frigidaire-built front loader I bought is almost nine years old and running great with not a single repair to date. For a modern washer I think that is a great record.

I had a direct drive top load Kenmore years ago that lasted 5 years, followed by a GE top loader that lasted 7. So far the front load Frigidaire is a much better value, does a much better job and uses less water and electricity. And it has a window!

I know some hold hope that the current generation of Speed Queen top loaders are going to last 10+ years....we'll just have to wait and see.

No machines are built like they were 50 years ago. A good older, rebuilt Maytag top loader would certainly be dependable, but outside of this club, where does one find them?



Post# 302393 , Reply# 12   9/9/2008 at 01:28 (5,679 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

They've been available here domestically since the late 80's with a Kleenmaid badge where the Speed Queen Badge would normally be.

Kudos to Speed Queen if they've changed them in the last few years, but all of the domestic models that have been available here have had painted tops.

The US Speed Queen website talks about the commercial grade, 3 coat cabinet finish and galvanising, plus tuff guard on the top, but there is no mention of porcelain anywhere other than the outer wash tub.

Is it in your user guide that describes the top as Porcelain coated?


CLICK HERE TO GO TO brisnat81's LINK


Post# 302397 , Reply# 13   9/9/2008 at 02:21 (5,679 days old) by jeffg ()        

Nathan, the washer has SQ's commercial grade finish on top. By porcelain I mean it's not just basic enameled steel (like our Cabrio dryer, which is only a few months old and is already starting to scratch on top).

The washer's finish is exactly like the Lady Kenmore sets my parents had in the 1960s/70s/80s. So far not a scratch on it.


Post# 302400 , Reply# 14   9/9/2008 at 03:04 (5,679 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

As I said Jeff, Kudos to Speed Queen if they've changed it, but I've seen 30 plus White control panelled Kleenmaids and even more older black control panelled ones that have the paint peeling off around the lid, to reveal galvanised metal.

Maybe there are batches that have a defect in the finish. I've seen them brand new and haved worked in family OPL with Kleenmaid stuff. The finish is increadibley durable and very hard to damage, but for whatever reason on some machines it eventually starts to lift.

These are my observations. Have you had your machine more than 5 years yet to compare? I've been using the OPL stuff since before I was a teenager in the early 90's in family motel Laundries.

The Speed Queens are incredibley well made and over here you pay a big premium for that, but they still have their faults like any machine.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO brisnat81's LINK


Post# 302407 , Reply# 15   9/9/2008 at 04:58 (5,679 days old) by jeffg ()        

Nathan, unless I missed it, Kleenmaid doesn't list the same "commercial grade cabinet finish" feature for their washers that Speed Queen lists on its website. So as to whether SQ 'changed' anything, we may be comparing apples and oranges.

As far as I know, SQ has always used a commercial grade finish on their domestic U.S. models. Even on washers 50+ years old (e.g. Gansky1's 1954 set) I've seen no examples of problems with peeling paint.

Maybe Kleenmaid opted for an inferior finish to offset some of the cost of importing these washers?


CLICK HERE TO GO TO jeffg's LINK


Post# 302417 , Reply# 16   9/9/2008 at 05:47 (5,679 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Hi Jeff,

Happy to leave it there, but they cost around $2300AUD so I dont think they do anything to save costs. The TOL SQ is around $1800AUD but you technically have to be a commercial entity to purchase them. A TOL Whirlpool is $899.

If you look at the lid on Gregs machines it must be painted because it's a different colour to the surround with is porcelain and is the same colour as the cabinets. They do look amazing for over 50 years old though.

Lets just agree to disagree and I wish you well with your set and may they give you many years of hassle free service.

Cheers, Nathan


Post# 303349 , Reply# 17   9/12/2008 at 21:41 (5,675 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

I just want to back Nathan up on peeling tops. I have repaired both Kleenmaid and Speed Queen badged machines, the black panel ones which would be about 15 to 20 years old by now. It is the same fault Nathan mentioned - lower bearing and seal gone. I used to get the parts from a commercial Speed Queen dealer and they were quite reasonably priced, I have lost track of where that dealer has moved to, or they have closed down, and at Kleenmaid's price for spare parts they are not really worth fixing. The recycle centre I often visit has three there now - two black and one white panel.

Almost all of them have ugly peeling top paint, specifically it is where the lid hinges attach to the top panel, the lid seems to scrape at the top panel and wear through the paint. The corrosion gets between the paint and the steel, so the paint remains intact (it is quite strong and a good thick layer) but separates from the steel, eventually flaking off in big pieces, leaving rusted steel showing underneath.

Chris.


Post# 303675 , Reply# 18   9/14/2008 at 22:45 (5,673 days old) by charger (Seattle )        

I got my My Frigidaire FL in May of 1997 no problems yet but this year I did need to change a $14.00 bearing in the dryer that came with it, I did the repair myself dont know what it would have run to hire someone to do it.

On the ships I work on water use is a very big deal and the low end Frigidaire Front loaders are the standard. I have seen these machines need strut replacement after being incorrectly transported and pump replacement after doing repeated loads of solvent soaked shop rags both of these repairs were easy.

I dont know anything about the more upscale Frigidaire FL machines but they are being evaluated along with some other FL types




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