Thread Number: 18631
KA Soak Timer 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 302046   9/7/2008 at 19:18 (5,703 days old) by bigalsf (Salt Lake City)        

Hi. Can someone advise me where I can get a Soak Timer for a KDI-17? I have been looking on line, but no one seems to have it. Would anyone have one for sale?




Post# 302054 , Reply# 1   9/7/2008 at 20:58 (5,703 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Check before you leap..

 Did you take the panel off yet? IIRC, the 17-I series didnt have a soak timer as much as it had an infinite switch that would cycle thru the soak. Check and see if there is a part number on it and we can see what we can do.

Post# 302383 , Reply# 2   9/8/2008 at 23:37 (5,702 days old) by bigalsf (Salt Lake City)        

Actually what I am trying to do is lengthen the main wash section on my KDP-20 machine. The 20 series main wash is only 7 min long (or so). That is not enough time for enzyme detergent tablets to really work effectively. I tried using a GE cycle extender, but it didn't work properly. The soak timer from the KDI 17 (not 17A) should work, as it will open a set of contacts for about 12 minutes or so & then close the contacts again (that's how it worked for the Soak cycle). The part number I'm referring to is B-105813, Auxiliary Timer.

My plan is to splice the leads for the soak timer into the main detergent cup switch. I will then attach the main timer motor leads to the soak timer switch contacts. When the soak timer is activated (via the detergent cup switch) it will interrupt the main timer motor, thus extending the cycle. When the soak timer reaches the end of it's cycle, it will re-activate the main timer motor & the machine will continue as usual. My only problem is that I cannot seem to find this timer part. I checked the Mid-West Timer web site & they may have what I want, but I'm not sure (& it could be pricey).

Your thoughts? Here are some pictures of the machine (it's loaded at the moment)

Post# 302384 , Reply# 3   9/8/2008 at 23:39 (5,702 days old) by bigalsf (Salt Lake City)        
Let's try the picture again

 Not sure what happened to my pic.

Post# 302386 , Reply# 4   9/8/2008 at 23:41 (5,702 days old) by bigalsf (Salt Lake City)        
Another Picture

 Control Panel (I need to work on my close up shots!)

Post# 302387 , Reply# 5   9/8/2008 at 23:44 (5,702 days old) by bigalsf (Salt Lake City)        
One more

 Tub Shot. I took the china guard off because our dishes are really tall. Yes, the top rack is from a KD23 series (the original was too rusted & did not adjust)

Post# 302388 , Reply# 6   9/8/2008 at 23:49 (5,702 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
KitchenAid!

 peteski50's profile picture
Alan,
This is a real nice KitchenAid kdp20 is probably the model.
This was very simular to the suburba except it doesn't have the sani cycle. But still does water heating at the startup. This is a real keeper.
Best Wishes,
Peter

Post# 302601 , Reply# 7   9/9/2008 at 20:57 (5,701 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
I don't think your circuit will work!

 Good idea on making it work and if you could get the timer you may want to try it, but you need to understand how the detergent cups work! They are activated by using bimetal heaters which then bend and release the individual doors. Those bimetals are heated by passing the PUMP MOTOR CURRENT thru the bimetal heaters. The amp draw of the pump will heat and bend the bimetal and the door springs open. The timer provides only a specific amount of time for this and then switches the motor back to a direct connection thru the timer.
It is not done by swtiching the bimetal on and off. It needs current draw thru it to work. So I don't see how it would then energize the 105813 timer for the amount of time you are looking for.
If you want to utilize the enzyme action of the detergent, why not just use the soak and scrub cycle which heats to approx. 140 degrees and then soaks the dishes and heats the water? Add detergent to the uncovered portion of the dispenser for that 1st segment and make it a detergent prewash. It will wash the dishes long enough to effectively clean them.
I usually use my KDS20 on low energy which is 2 5 minute washes followed by 2 5 minute rinses using Cascade Total Power and I haven't seen a dirty dish come out of the machine yet!
If your machine main washes for 7 minutes, then the second wash should be just as long which is now 4 minutes longer than my machine, you should have great results too.
Just to clarify my first response, btw, the 17 A series Imperial DID, in fact, use a simple 115v infinite switch as a soak timer. definitely a cheaper but effective way to accomplish the same thing.
The only way you would probably get a 105813 timer would be to find an old 17 at the curb and take it home to mess around with.

Post# 302617 , Reply# 8   9/9/2008 at 22:08 (5,701 days old) by bigalsf (Salt Lake City)        
Thanks for your help & the information!

 My thought was that the when the bi-metal was activated it would start the timer. Since the bi-metal stays active for 90 seconds the soak timer would have enough time to interrupt the main timer motor. Of course the bi-metal would remain active for the length of the soak timer cycle. I didn't think of the lack of current, however. That's probably why the GE cycle extender did not work. I will have to come up with another circuit; I have an idea i'm toying around with! :)

Can you tell me how the infinite switch worked? Also, would you know which company manufactured the soak timer? Mid West Timer indicated they may have one, but they need the MWT model number (not the Hobart number).

I should have been clearer on the wash time. The KDP & KDS had identical cycles (except for Sani). The wash times on mine are the same as yours, but I was including the 1:30 fill time. I want to lengthen the wash time because I only like to use the Low Energy cycle to save water; it's my way of keeping this hobby as green as possible. If the wash cycle were longer I wouldn't have to worry about how dirty the dishes are. One enzyme tablet will take care of everything!

Post# 302902 , Reply# 9   9/10/2008 at 21:54 (5,700 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
I have been thinking of this project!

 I was driving home tonite and the timer project came into my head.. I believe it was a Mallory timer, but often times, they actually had the Hobart part number on it and not one of their stock numbers.
How about getting a time delay relay which will interrupt the timer motor for you and hook it up to the WASH pilot light on the panel? Of course that will take some additional circuitry or one that will only cycle once. And if you should add another item and open the door, the light goes out and then relights so it may delay the wash even more. So you may have to think that one thru.
But again, is the problem with the short wash times of 5 minutes each, too short for your enzyme "packet" to dissolve?
If it is, why not just use a good, old fashioned, powdered detergent? And like I said earlier, I have no problem with the cleaning in my Superba using Cascade Extra Action with the grease cutting power of Dawn! or even Cascade complete. Due to extreme temp losses on my below slab hot water line,I will select low energy too but then switch to Sani cycle for the added heat at the end.This insures totally dried dishware as well.

The infinite switch works just like one used on an electric range, depending on where you set the dial, it varies the time on and off of the device it controls. The one used in the dishwasher was preset, that is, no means of varying the amount of on time.
Another option for you would be to install a small toggle switch somewhere like on the bottom of the lower front panel which would interrupt the timer motor so you could make the wash as long as you like it! Of course, that necesssitates your own intervention as well.

Again, I can't imagine how poorly your machine is washing that you would want to extend the cycles. I am sure you can poll anyone on here with a similar machine and they will all concur that it is a very satisfactory washing machine out of the box! And if extra cleaning is needed, they use the soak and scrub or heavy wash cycle with the heavy and sani cycles being identical except for the final rinse temp.


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