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Thread Number: 19210
KDC 60A Dishwasher |
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Post# 309894 10/17/2008 at 17:23 (5,668 days old) by jakeseacrest  (Massachusetts) |
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Ok...so in June I traded in my Tall Maytag Dishwasher for the Kitchen Aid portable knowing there was going to be a trade off. In the last few months, I've noted the following: 1. It's just not what I expected as far as loading. My plates only fit down the one row and they all have to tilt...they don't stand up. Maybe because they are cupped..who knows but it's a small annoyance. Bowls...my bowls are deep and only fit well where the plates should go...the pins are unforgiving on the right side of the rack so they can't go there. 2. Silverware and pots: My silverware comes out streaky most of the time. My Faberware pots also come out bluish looking. They usually need a scrubby pad to make them look new again. Actually, my Faberware stock pot and fry pan don't fit anywhere in the dishwasher so I've resorted to hand washing them also. Pans that cooked any starch has to be hand scrubbed...they come out looking the same! 3. Drying...incredible! 4. I have tried adding detergent to the open section to hit the 150 degree water in the first fill to see if it helps. Nope. I have used Finish and Wal Mart detergents so far. I'm going to try Cascade Complete this week. I bought this dishwasher beacuse of the long times on the Maytag and every other dishwasher available, but I realize now that it was just a whole lot better overall! I think I'm going to throw in the towel and get a new one as soon as I can afford it but I really wanted a vintage dishwasher. Any suggestions out there? | ||
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| Post# 309905 , Reply# 1 10/17/2008 at 18:35 (5,668 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
Michael
It would probably be best if you posted a pic of the interior of the machine. I am usuing my Regency Portable right now. If you only have the Single HydroSweep on the bottom , these machines are only truely designed to be "Dishwashers". The only thing I put in the bottom rack are plates. This has totally redesigned my evening meals. You can not have anything concave blocking the upper rack. These single arm machines as you know spray from the bottom up. There fore a mixing bowl or a skillet blocking the spray from getting to the top rack will hamper your results. These machines can only be "Bob Loaded" if the lower rack is only plates or flat objects. Here are 2 shots of this evening's load. 
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| Post# 309906 , Reply# 2 10/17/2008 at 18:38 (5,668 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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The Haze
In the first shot is the steam from catching her in the drain portion of the Prewash cycle. The second is the lower rack as you can see you can't block the wash arm from the bottom up. I hope this helps. I also wash my Pots and pans by hand when using this machine. Strictly a Dishwasher. My KDS 18 and the KDS 20 have two wash arms which I can randomly load the hell out of it.
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Post# 309908 , Reply# 3 10/17/2008 at 18:43 (5,668 days old) by jakeseacrest (Massachusetts) |
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| Post# 309909 , Reply# 4 10/17/2008 at 18:55 (5,668 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Does the upper rack tilt ?
Have you cleaned the sump strainers ? If you got the machine used, the Regency I just showed you had 2 bad issues. The line strainer on the fill line was plugged, so she was not getting sufficient water pressure, and the sump strainer was packed with food fiber. If you have the 2 spay arms, it should shine your dishes like the top of the Chrysler building. Even with your plates tilting forward, that machine should clean well. Check the fill line sediment strainer. Almost sounds like your not getting enough water in the machine.
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| Post# 309914 , Reply# 5 10/17/2008 at 19:20 (5,668 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Calling Dr. Stevet | ||
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Post# 309915 , Reply# 6 10/17/2008 at 19:39 (5,668 days old) by jakeseacrest (Massachusetts) |
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The cleaning is great, but with my dishes the loading sucks. I think if I had thinner ones(Corelle) it would probably be easier to load. I have Fiesta looking dishes and they are kinda beefy. I don't know what to do about the silver issue. I hate to have to use a scrubby on the pots, pans, and silverware for every load. Someone near me is selling a Maytag reverse rack but I'm not sure. I used one in 1992 for a few weeks at a friends house and I thought it was cool, but theirs had a water heat button. This machine doesn't have it. Decisions decisions?
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| Post# 309916 , Reply# 7 10/17/2008 at 19:47 (5,668 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Wait until you hear... | ||
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Post# 309917 , Reply# 8 10/17/2008 at 20:07 (5,668 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Well, I hate to be a jerk, but TOLD YA SO!!! These 1-level dishwashers are not for everyone due to dish style, whether they expect to be able to wash mixing bowls, pots, pans, and other deep stuff in the same load. Now you understand why I have hated these (not nearly as much as a spin tube), but they are limiting and can waste a bunch of space if you don't have all the "right" materials that make up a good load. Even Nate admits he will never be able to BobLoad his KDS15 and fully understands its limits. Maybe a vintage or older Whirlpool or Kenmore UltraWash would be more to your liking. Also, be on the lookout for older Maytag stuff on Craigslist too. My experience with these KAs goes all the way back to when the 16 series was brand new. Neighbor had a KDS16, brand new. I was so "excited" cuz it was a KA. I loaded it up, careful about not blocking the top rack, put a pan used to boil rice in there, heavy soil cycle. Left rice kernals and lots of starch residue on the pan. Our Kenmore Rotorack would always clean something like this and so did the Waste King we had at the time. These KAs are ONLY great as a DISH washer and if you have the right type of dishes.
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Post# 309925 , Reply# 9 10/17/2008 at 20:41 (5,668 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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There's a very nice Kenmore Portable UltraWah in New Bedford for $75. On Craigslist.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO appnut's LINK on Southcoast Craigslist | ||
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Post# 309926 , Reply# 10 10/17/2008 at 20:42 (5,668 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 309927 , Reply# 11 10/17/2008 at 20:45 (5,668 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 309929 , Reply# 12 10/17/2008 at 20:48 (5,668 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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http://worcester.craigslist.org/hsh/880046141.html | ||
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Post# 309930 , Reply# 13 10/17/2008 at 20:51 (5,668 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/hsh/882295877.html | ||
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Post# 309933 , Reply# 14 10/17/2008 at 21:03 (5,668 days old) by jakeseacrest (Massachusetts) |
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Post# 309978 , Reply# 17 10/18/2008 at 00:59 (5,668 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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Soak & Scrub, Water Heating, Flex-O-Dividers, 9 Position Upp | ||
| Post# 310117 , Reply# 21 10/18/2008 at 22:33 (5,667 days old) by a440 () | ||
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Right Andrew!!! You are only talking about water heating!!! LOL Brent | ||
| Post# 310126 , Reply# 23 10/19/2008 at 00:03 (5,667 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
Jeebus!
Familiarity breeds results, and yes, you do give up some things by going vintage. Frequently, bottom racks were meant for plates and flat things only. Plates needed to be of the proper size to clear racks and wash-arms. If you stuck a bowl in the bottom, nothing had better go on the top. That sort of thing. (Or on the spin-tube, the top-rack is bulging with dishes, and there's a fork and a saucer in the bottom rack. It happens.) That said, common threads for good results abound. Good detergent, measured properly and appropriate for your situation; boundless hot water, and good pressure so that the machine gets a full charge. Nothing but nothing performs well with insufficient water. If equipped, make sure the machine's Jet Dry dispenser has rinse agent in it. Many machines rely on rinse agent to remove fine particles that get stuck up in glasses and other places if the sheeting action isn't there to help rid them. Proper loading is a must (especially with impeller machines, eccentric machines like spin-tubes, or single wash-arm machines--put yourself in the water's place, like the old GE manual bajaespuma posted said--if you can't see how the water can reach it, how can it be cleaned?). Even so, with increasingly enzymatic detergents that depend on lower water temperatures and longer cycle times to break-down and "soak off" food soils, some vintage machines are just screwed. For instance, the detergent in the spin-tube only gets nine minutes to make friends with the dishes before it's on to the rinses. For some detergents, that's simply not enough time. And, frankly, some machines simply assumed that you "washed the dishes before you washed the dishes," and that food soils were minimal to begin with. In terms of starchy things being problematic and encountering streaky silverware, I have the same problems with my KitchenAid (KDS-15). I find that I can use a measuring cup (stainless steel) and measure Crisco, and the dishwasher will wash the cup, but a very fine, powdery patina of shortening remains, despite good, fresh detergent and copious amounts of hot water. (I control the water heater in our house, so I know damned well that it's not set at 120.) Using the Sani Cycle to incinerate all traces of anything helps immensely, but I try not to pull out the big guns more than I have to :-). I did not have this problem back before detergent reformulation started happening in earnest, so I suspect that the detergent components intended to attack grease are enzymatic and don't get enough play-time in vintage dishwashers that relied on chlorinated, phosphated detergents to whoop ass with short wash durations. I suspect this will be an increasing problem for vintage dishwasher owners as the new, energy/water-efficient and interminable cycle dishwashers take hold, and detergents are further reformulated to maximize their effectiveness at or around 120 degrees F. And, finally, yes, funky items may not fit. I can't fit gigantic pots in a D&M dishwasher because of the low-hanger middle wash arm, and I can't fit a frickin' 12" plate in the Dishmobile. Dish and pot/pan sizes have varied over the years. It is possible that a modern machine will be your best daily driver. I will say, though, that I bought a brand-new, very nice, high-end Frigidaire dishwasher that scored very well in Consumer Reports, and found the following issues:
It's the same reason that I don't do all of our laundry in the solid-tub Norge--I don't want to do a week's worth of laundry two T-shirts and two slacks at a time until it's all done--that's just how I roll ;-) | ||
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Post# 310190 , Reply# 25 10/19/2008 at 08:31 (5,667 days old) by jakeseacrest (Massachusetts) |
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I want to thank all of you for the advice. I think that the problem may lie in the shorter wash times vs my 2+ hour Maytag. Over the last few days I have been trying some new loading tricks and it seems to be working. As far as the pots I'll just scrubby them...it's a small price to pay for having my Kitchen Aid!
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| Post# 310321 , Reply# 26 10/19/2008 at 20:42 (5,666 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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Leslie
Way good points, and good to hear your $0.02 :-) I think the newest of the new machines are encouraging, and fare better than older designs adjusted to make-do with reduced water availability. And God yes, the 70s machines were far easier to load. The '75 GE we had (though abominable in the cleaning department) was totally flexible about its loading. And, certainly, KAs and their ilk with double wash arms totally resolved the loading issues. | ||
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Post# 310416 , Reply# 29 10/20/2008 at 10:25 (5,666 days old) by jakeseacrest (Massachusetts) |
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Post# 310517 , Reply# 31 10/20/2008 at 19:08 (5,665 days old) by jakeseacrest (Massachusetts) |
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| Post# 310522 , Reply# 34 10/20/2008 at 19:46 (5,665 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL) | ||
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Here are the pictures..a few to follow! Rack support assy with the plates that need to be rivetted or attached with like a 4-40 or smaller nut and bolt! 
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| Post# 310523 , Reply# 35 10/20/2008 at 19:46 (5,665 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL) | ||
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2 Adjustement assy right side view 
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| Post# 310524 , Reply# 36 10/20/2008 at 19:47 (5,665 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL) | ||
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3 flex o dividers up position 
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| Post# 310525 , Reply# 37 10/20/2008 at 19:48 (5,665 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL) | ||
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4 dividers down 
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| Post# 310526 , Reply# 38 10/20/2008 at 19:49 (5,665 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL) | ||
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5 divider supports from the back 
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| Post# 310527 , Reply# 39 10/20/2008 at 19:50 (5,665 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL) | ||
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6 front view of the dividers 
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| Post# 310528 , Reply# 40 10/20/2008 at 19:53 (5,665 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL) | ||
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quality issues! I had to use my webcam for the pics, my son wouldn't let me have the digital camera! I bought it and can't use it! So I apologize for the fuzzies.. It works better on live camming. | ||
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Post# 310598 , Reply# 41 10/21/2008 at 05:41 (5,665 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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I have a two year old Bosch and a KDS-17A
Lately I have been using the Kitchen Aid as my daily driver mostly because it's so darn fast (and fun I must add). As far as the loading challenges. Well my dinner plates are over 11" and I put them at an angle. Don't ask me how but the water still seems to get through them and up to the top. Sure I have to be a little more careful of with what I put on the bottom but I push it and am amazed at how well this machine cleans and how quickly it does it. The water seems to sneak around some of these smaller bowls and things and still gets the top dishes clean. The husband loads the Bosch when he does the dishes because he wouldn't deal with having to pay attention to what goes where. He doesn't do dishes that often (which by the way is another thread) so I guess it's not a big deal. I am really falling in love with this Kitchen Aid again. We had a number of dishwashers when I was younger because we moved around quite a bit. I have always loved the plates down the middle design and I really am enjoying using this machine again. The only feature I wish this machine had is the Soak and Scrub like my KDS-21 had. That machine would heat the water and spray the dishes a few times during the Soak and Scrub where this model only does it once. It's noisy as hell compared to the Bosch but that's a small price to pay in my opinion. | ||
| Post# 310603 , Reply# 42 10/21/2008 at 06:13 (5,665 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Hi Steve | ||
| Post# 310604 , Reply# 43 10/21/2008 at 06:14 (5,665 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Three Position | ||
| Post# 310756 , Reply# 45 10/21/2008 at 19:13 (5,664 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Steve
I can't wait to get my KDS-18 back in service. I think the Consant rinse makes a incredible difference on the machine. The KDS-20 does not impress me at all,I want my KDS-18 back in service ASAP. I'm going to look into that over the next week or so. I'll replace the Soap Dispensor, and check everything out. I love that machine.Fast, Clean and can Bob Load it with no cleaning issues. The KDS 20 will be ready for sale as soon as I get the 18 fixed, It's mint and It rinses well. It's just not for me
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