|
Thread Number: 21155
Super... |
[Down to Last] |  |
Post# 334260 3/8/2009 at 08:12 (5,524 days old) by unimatic1140  (Minneapolis) |
||
A big thanks goes out to David (Partscounterman) who called me when two Duets came into their shop and saved them for me. As some of you many remember I had talked about starting work sometime on the creation of a Super Duet. Both machines were made in the 2003/2004 time frame and now have bad rear tub seals and bearings. Luckily I was able to get my hands on a good tub and rear outer tub from one of the my local washer haunts around here. So the first step is to replace the tub and bearing. Here are the machines... 
| ||
|
|
Post# 334261 , Reply# 1 3/8/2009 at 08:16 (5,524 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 334272 , Reply# 2 3/8/2009 at 10:07 (5,524 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
||
Wow Robert, this should be fun!
So what are your plans for the "Super Duet"? Since it's already computer controlled, are you going to create new custom programs for it (like a cycle specifically for towels)? Or are you planning to really change it.... i.e... wash water recirculation, spray rinses, higher water levels, etc? Would you like to share your plans? I look forward to the progress updates and lots of photos! :-D Kevin | ||
|
Post# 334285 , Reply# 3 3/8/2009 at 12:20 (5,524 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions) |
||
 | ||
| Post# 334288 , Reply# 4 3/8/2009 at 12:46 (5,524 days old) by jmirawm (Barling Arkansas) | ||
|
WooHoo ! I cannot wait to see what your imagination unfurls in the Deluxe Forum !! | ||
| Post# 334297 , Reply# 5 3/8/2009 at 13:33 (5,524 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
No Heater | ||
|
Post# 334304 , Reply# 6 3/8/2009 at 15:17 (5,524 days old) by re563 (Fort Worth, Texas) |
||
THE 2ED MACHINE IS THE EXACT | ||
| Post# 334307 , Reply# 7 3/8/2009 at 15:56 (5,524 days old) by autowasherfreak () | ||
|
Robert: What is the cool looking machine behind the first Duet? It looks neat. | ||
| Post# 334309 , Reply# 8 3/8/2009 at 16:07 (5,524 days old) by bertrum () | ||
|
Duet? What does duet mean? never heard this term, is it an abreviation for something you say across the pond?, I assume it is a term used for a frontloading washing machine. | ||
| Post# 334310 , Reply# 9 3/8/2009 at 16:17 (5,524 days old) by animasinsulinpu () | ||
|
WP Duet Hi, Robert. Im using that same machine right now. My friend Kim is moving and Im washing her couch cushions. FUN!!!!.....Bill in Az..... | ||
|
Post# 334322 , Reply# 10 3/8/2009 at 16:56 (5,524 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
||
|
Bertrum.....
Duet refers to a Whirlpool Duet HT front load washer here in the US. For some reason Whirlpool choose to call their first (large capacity, front load for the US market) the "Duet HT". i have no idea why... simply marketing perhaps? Who knows. This link is for the current version.... CLICK HERE TO GO TO revvinkevin's LINK | ||
|
Post# 334336 , Reply# 11 3/8/2009 at 17:20 (5,524 days old) by appnut (TX) |
||
What is the cool looking machine behind the first Duet? It l | ||
|
Post# 334338 , Reply# 12 3/8/2009 at 17:23 (5,524 days old) by appnut (TX) |
||
|
Duet HT".
Our resident WP exper3t Magic Clean will be able to resurrect what the Duet had meaning for. It may have been something like clean clothes and energy effencity. The "HT" models signaled there was an onboard supplemental heater, those without "HT" didn't have a heater. The Kenmore cousins were intially the HE3 and HE3T, again there were three "e" words meaning something about efficiency and such.
| ||
|
Post# 334342 , Reply# 13 3/8/2009 at 17:33 (5,524 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
||
Ohh Robert Crosses to the Dark Side..!!!
Well take it nice & gentle with you dont worry!!! looking forward to seeing this project workin out!!!! methinks you`l have an in-line heater in these beauties before you can say quickwash!!! I vote for; in-line heater & sump re-circulating jets Vario spin, time & temp selection programming Magic minute shampoo wash Spin drain with pulsing spin spray feature Spin to "Sudz Save" sump Recovery Tank Ohhh, endless possibilities!!!Enjoy, Mike AND, at least this wont happen!!!...Lol 
| ||
|
Post# 334346 , Reply# 14 3/8/2009 at 18:04 (5,524 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
||
HE3t | ||
|
Post# 334368 , Reply# 15 3/8/2009 at 20:14 (5,524 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
So what are your plans for the "Super Duet"? The possibilities are limitless. Definitely want a high pressure recirculation spray, maybe out of multiple ports, multiple drain pumps to help take care of suds locks, high speed spins between the rinses, and of course 4 seven second spray rinses, I mean it is a Whirlpool after all!! Oh and of course I'll have to stencil a wavy while line horizontally across the center off the glass window and in a cool vintage font write "suds level"! Too bad neither one of these puppies has the built in heater. Not a problem with a machine that is going to be "moisturized", I'll put one in of some sort. AND, at least this wont happen!!!...Lol Uh huh, I'll deal with you in a few minutes missy when I get these pictures downloaded. | ||
|
Post# 334371 , Reply# 16 3/8/2009 at 20:20 (5,524 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
Ouch!! That hurts
So I have two machines with bad bearings as the tubs knock and rumble as you turn them. The Kenmore sounded worse than the Whirlpool when I moved the tub, so I figured I would try the Whirlpool last night first with a medium sized wash load of towels. Oppsie, during the final spin the knocking got really loud and the bearing gave way and let the top drop down into the outer tub and it shreaded out the front of the plastic outer tub!
| ||
|
Post# 334373 , Reply# 17 3/8/2009 at 20:23 (5,524 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 334374 , Reply# 18 3/8/2009 at 20:28 (5,524 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
Parts everywhere
Its quite the project to replace the bearing as the entire machine has to come apart. It took me about 6 hours from start to finish. What a difference working on modern washing machine as opposed to a vintage machine, all the screws turn without any cursing lol. But plastic tabs used to hold wires in place break very easily, something that would never have been done 50 years ago.
| ||
|
Post# 334377 , Reply# 19 3/8/2009 at 20:34 (5,524 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
Here is the machine going back together with a used but clean new back tub and drum (in about hour 4). The seal is a lip seal, Frigidaire used a lip seal on the early Unimatics but found that water had leaking into the mechanism too often and change to a carbon face seal which holds back water much better. I suspect all washer manufacturers now use lips seals as they are probably cheaper, so this doesn't surprise me. 
| ||
|
Post# 334379 , Reply# 21 3/8/2009 at 20:40 (5,524 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
FEH!
Oh and as for Miss Chestermike:!!! Better tangled than moldy mister. Hidden out of view behind each of the boots in both machines I found this! Ewwwww, mold, it took a good 20 minutes of hot water and scrubbing with 3M green pads to remove it. This isn't just a Whirlpool problem, I've heard that this is a problem in all American front loaders. I hope the Euro machines with 220volt heaters fair better. 
| ||
|
Post# 334380 , Reply# 22 3/8/2009 at 20:43 (5,524 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 334381 , Reply# 23 3/8/2009 at 20:43 (5,524 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
||
 | ||
| Post# 334383 , Reply# 24 3/8/2009 at 20:52 (5,524 days old) by eddy1210 (Burnaby BC Canada) | ||
I knew it | ||
| Post# 334385 , Reply# 25 3/8/2009 at 20:55 (5,524 days old) by toggleswitch2 () | ||
|
oh gawd a "diaper washer"...EWWWWWW. FASCINATING! | ||
|
Post# 334401 , Reply# 26 3/8/2009 at 21:26 (5,524 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
Time for School
I didn't really expect to find all that stuff although none of that really is such a big deal. Most people I talk to really like their Duet machines. I even recommended a TOL set to my Dad and his wife and she really likes it. So I will give it a Whirl myself for a few weeks as is and see what I think. The first step in making a monster machine like this is some education on my part. I need to learn how the heck I'm going to control the motor. I thought the motor was a DC motor when in fact now that I get a look at it its a 3-Phase asynchronous induction type of motor. The interesting thing is that to run the motor there are only 2 wires coming out of the computer and they lead into the motor controller. I was thinking I would use the machines motor controller as it would be too difficult to build one, but I need to understand what the computer is sending to the motor controller via those two wires. I believe it varies both the voltage and frequency to adjust motor speed and direction. As you can see from the diagram below the computer (dotted line on far right edge) only sends a IN/OUT signal, a Vcc signal and a ground. This is where I'm going to need help from any of you electronic experts out there. This will be more challenging for me than when I built the Super Unimatic. When I get some time I will take some measurements of the IN/OUT line and the Vcc line during different phases of the motor operating and let everyone know what I find. 
| ||
|
Post# 334405 , Reply# 27 3/8/2009 at 21:49 (5,524 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA) |
||
Looks like a blast Robert! I personally don't deal with VFD's at work, but I hear the guys talk about them all the time. I once asked for a demo as I wanted to see what one was like. All I have to say is - COOL! I don't know specifics on brand or functions but the tech did say there are some that will interface through a serial connection to a PC for PC control - which I suspect is what you are after. The best part is you'll get the DC braking, etc, which the factory MCU may or may not have. Plus, you get the benefit of thermal protection which I suspect may not be factory. The playing field completely changes with 3 phase. All's fun in an afternoon's trip to the library! Ben CLICK HERE TO GO TO swestoyz's LINK 
| ||
| Post# 334425 , Reply# 28 3/9/2009 at 00:37 (5,524 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
So | ||
| Post# 334427 , Reply# 29 3/9/2009 at 01:00 (5,524 days old) by tuthill () | ||
|
Awesome Robert, looking forward to seeing the progress on this one! | ||
| Post# 334498 , Reply# 32 3/9/2009 at 12:55 (5,523 days old) by toggleswitch2 () | ||
|
Spank me? I DARE YOU ! oh Terry you hush now! *LOL* Even through we all know it is bound to happen eventually, let's play along and agree with Robert as he says "NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!" (ducks and runs.) | ||
|
Post# 334500 , Reply# 33 3/9/2009 at 13:16 (5,523 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
||
|
Mould
Hi Robert, no moldy bits here, just the build up of black stuff sometimes in the dispenser, but thats related to fabric softener!!! So this machine, has just two suspension strutts?? and two concrete blocks top & bottom for stability?? Am looking forward to seeing just what water level & usage these machines can operate operate at efficiently!! Hi Terry, what have you had wrong with yours etc?? Cheers, Mike | ||
|
Post# 334523 , Reply# 35 3/9/2009 at 14:33 (5,523 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
||
Not too surprising on the sludge. Filthy clothes, detergent ignorance and cold water will bring about this result in any machine, top or front loading. How many have ever raised the top of a GE Filter-Flo and found a similar coating of goo? A Whirlpool/Kenmore belt or direct-drive can get just as gross. Families with small children and/or babies generate mountains of some of the most disgusting laundry - turning their washing machines into sewage processing units. The tendency for people to not prep or pre-treat their laundry, stains and special items in any way also contribute a fair share of trouble to the plumbing of appliances. Just wait until they take the phosphates out of dishwasher detergents, we'll see sludge like this in those machines too. Hopefully, you'll be able to design a set of programs to combat these forces! | ||
|
Post# 334538 , Reply# 36 3/9/2009 at 15:32 (5,523 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI) |
||
Before ya know it, there will be a "Clean Dishwasher&qu | ||
|
Post# 334541 , Reply# 37 3/9/2009 at 15:41 (5,523 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
||
|
Clean Dishwasher Cycle | ||
| Post# 334589 , Reply# 38 3/9/2009 at 20:49 (5,523 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA) | ||
Thank you Gansky for beating me to it. This has long been my annoyance with the Neptune owners. Granted, the machines had their issues BUT alot of those mold, mildew and smell issues were because of user AND saleperson indifference and/or stupidity. They bought a high end, high performance washer and treated it like the old $199.00 beater they just got rid of. Trying to educate that (set in her ways) little old lady about how to use it and what kind of soap to use is like knocking down the great wall with your skull but hurts worse. Worse when the salesperson (who knows diddle about the product) tells them to use the wrong detergent, etc! The newer Whirlpool units actually HAVE a clean cycle and instructions on how to use it, recommending bleach only. It helps! See below picture. "The seal is a lip seal". It looks exactly like the lip seal on the MAH style Neptunes. The end result looks just like a failed Neptune tub bearing/seal too. Robert, in one of your pictures I can see just a piece of a Maytag wringer but with a clear tub! Could you post a pic or two of it as I've never seen a clear tub before? PLEASE??? RCD 
| ||
| Post# 334591 , Reply# 39 3/9/2009 at 20:56 (5,523 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA) | ||
|
| ||
| Post# 334627 , Reply# 42 3/10/2009 at 00:24 (5,523 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
I agree with ttuee2006
I have never used bleach in a washing machine in my life...for any reason at all.... I do the following and have NEVER had a problem... - grab 2 old face washers - wipe out the boot with one; - wring it out and leave to dry; and - place the other folded in 2 or 3 over top of door which I just push to... This leaves a gap about 2-3" all the way around the door Problem solved | ||
|
Post# 334659 , Reply# 43 3/10/2009 at 08:32 (5,522 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
||
Robert
I can help. In this configuration there is information flowing back and forth from the motor to the Control board, it's not just voltages going one way. That 'T" symbol is an electronic tachometer which tells the MCB what speed the motor is turning at. So when the MCB calls for 2000 RPM spin it keeps varying the field coils electrically until the tach matches 2000 RPM's. The Vcc will be the minimum operating voltage ( which can be anywhere from a volt to 8 volts DC) that the MCB needs to operate just like the power supply in your computer. It will also act as a reference voltage so the MCB can measure other voltages and compare. The dotted box on the right is most likely the input board/cycle board where the user selects 2000 RPM spin etc. That board will also house the rectifier that will protect and convert 120V AC into millivolt DC to run the MCB. The settings from the Cycle board are turned into control voltages which tell the processor on the MCB what is expected of it. Say at 5 volts dc you run the motor back and forth for wash at 6 volts you put it into spin etc. So the MCB is constantly monitoring the Cycle Board and the Motor and the little onboard computer on the MCB is telling the motor what to do. You should also know these Duets have a flaw in the door switch monitor circuit. Those pink wires flowing from the door to the board at the upper back. Due to vibretion the wires tend to loosen the metal contacts on the board and the board being cheaply made stops working unless you jiggle the wires to get contact reestablished on the ciruit board. I have repaired this problem on vintage Receiver circuit boards but I have been told that these newer boards are made with such thin cheap copper traces that they can't be repaired and can only be replaced. So hold onto both boards from the machines and if one appears bad send it to me and I can try to resolder the traces on it. GOOD ON YOU EDDY , We always knew he was a closet front loader type! There is hope for everybody else! jet | ||
|
Post# 334701 , Reply# 44 3/10/2009 at 11:02 (5,522 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
||
|
Neptune 7500
I've had a Neptune 7500 (solid door) for about eight years now, and have NEVER had a problem with mold or odor with it. I never leave the door open to "air out", either. And I've never run chlorine bleach in it, either. However I run at least one hot (130F boosted) wash a week in it. I also use STPP in most loads (except when I use liquid detergent). The 7500 has different control logic that sends it into an accelerated tumble pattern during the last rinse. This helps to dislodge any debris that collected at the top of the tub and maybe also around the boot. Whatever it is, it works. The washer was serviced at the three year mark. Along with the motor, motor controller, and main board, the "spider" that the belt rides on was replaced (it had cracked). At the time the serviceman said the seals and bearings were in fine shape. I think he did replace the seal just as SOP whenever a tub is pulled. And of course the tub/boot were squeaky clean. | ||
| Post# 334703 , Reply# 45 3/10/2009 at 11:06 (5,522 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA) | ||
|
| ||
| Post# 334750 , Reply# 47 3/10/2009 at 16:17 (5,522 days old) by funguy10 () | ||
|
Can't wait to see how it turns out! So you are using the Kenmore because it was the more "broken" of the two? What will you do with the Whirlpool? | ||
|
Post# 334800 , Reply# 48 3/10/2009 at 22:57 (5,522 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
Thanks Jon, great information. You're right about the VCC line supplying power to the Motor Controller Board. I took some multimeter readings tonight and my findings are slightly different as follows: The VCC line: It seems that 120 volts AC is applied to this line, the frequency changes somewhat but no where near as much as the on the IN/OUT line. The frequency is stable at 60hz when the motor is not running. The IN/OUT line: This also appears to be running AC current, but here are my readings: During wash tumble: 0.68 volts/165 hz During pause between reversing the tub direction: 0.44 volts/60hz Medium Spin speed: 1.5 volts/195 hz High Spin speed: 1.9 volts/283 hz Go figure, lol. I'm liking Ben's idea of using a external VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) to drive the motor, this will be easier to control via either a PC or Microcontroller chip. I'm also thinking its time to learn how to program a microcontroller chip as opposed to using a pc to run the machine. | ||
|
Post# 334863 , Reply# 49 3/11/2009 at 08:46 (5,521 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
||
|
Yes I have been
reading up on microchip controllers for a few years now, I have a programming board. The book I was using is called "PIC Microcontrollers Project Book" by John Iovine. You progam the chips using BASIC which I already know. He has a shopping list with a small breadboard, BASIC compiler you load onto your computer and through the compiler and breadboard you program the chips. You may find you have another more advacned computer language you know that will let you try another chip architecture? Let me know. The problem I find is there are so many types of microchips on the market and there are several different languages I counldn't decide which would be best for a washer. I wanted to run the motor AND take out the timer and create a wash program and store that on the microcontroller. It looks like your in/out line is the signal line for triggering each function. These chips & boards are getting more robust I am surprised that the board can take a 120V directly so there must be a converter on the board itself these days. MY NEPTUNE steps down the voltage for the controller on the machine control board in the backsplash. Then the micro-controller handles the 120V 10 amp current to the motor via the MCB and relays like you put into the SuperUnimatic machine. Your DUET sounds more compact than the 10 year old Neptune. | ||
|
Post# 334903 , Reply# 50 3/11/2009 at 13:11 (5,521 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
Jon, yes I just picked up the book you were using the other day and I also ordered the book that Lee is using "PIC in practice by D W Smith". Have you seen Lee and Diomede's microcontroller washer timer projects in this thread linked below? I was quite impressed with both of them and now I want to learn this as well. These books are well written and it seems easy enough to learn. The computer programming and interfacing part will be easy for me, I'll just have to learn breadboarding which can't be all that difficult.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO unimatic1140's LINK | ||
|
Post# 334909 , Reply# 51 3/11/2009 at 13:32 (5,521 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
||
|
I just replaced the water valve in my Duet ($43 damn it!) and so while I was poking around in the machine, I checked the door boot (inside) and all the plumbing underneath. Other than a rusty nail/tack that made it's way to the pump protector and a small string of lint in the one of the holes, there was nothing but clean, clear water in mine. I even pushed a bottle brush up into the tub-to-pump hose and found no slime, sludge or other nasties. I removed the pump and it was also very clean, the outlet drain hose was fine as well. I always leave the door ajar when done using the machine and am careful about sorting, loading and using only HE detergents in mine. It's the rare load that gets washed in cold water - generally use hot or warm and I do run the machine with bleach now and then with whites. I've never used any washer cleaning product or made a specific cycle and chemical potion to "clean" the washer. | ||
|
Post# 334992 , Reply# 53 3/11/2009 at 21:46 (5,521 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
||
|
Robert
Lees' board is what I was trying to achieve they are such cool projects! I didn't know about them thank you! I will order that book too! We could digitize all the vintage cycles of each machine so that when the physical timers finally fail for the last time we could still run all these machines as original. And we could build any kind of new machine with all the knowledge we have aquired working on all these machines over the years. That experience has to be way ahead of any new engineer entering the field today! Mahalo,Jon | ||
|
Post# 335034 , Reply# 54 3/12/2009 at 03:13 (5,520 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
||
|
Suggestion box
All the electronic fiddling is fine... but... How about rigging up a "Halo of LED's" to light up the interior? And once that is done, how about inserting a color video camera (ala endoscope) connected to a small LED flat panel display on the console, with an internet connection, so that one can view the wash process remotely? | ||
| Forum Index: |
| Other Forums: |
|
|
|
|
|
Comes to the Rescue!
