Thread Number: 21205
Curiosity about other countries 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 334785   3/10/2009 at 21:10 (5,523 days old) by brasilianguy ()        

Hi friends, i'm very curious to know some things about other countries culture and habits.
i'll begin with 2 curiosities, and them i'll write more as soon as i'll remember them...

1º curiosity- I'd like to know how much cost an avarege energy bill, of a family house that normaly uses dishwasher and dryer there in USA, couse, here in Brazil, if u use dishwasher and electric dryer for everything, the bill will be unpayble. Well, i need to say that here, we use electric shower, and don't have central water heating system, the shower instantly heats it's oun water (for u to compare, our shower have the same potence of an american dryer, about 6000W, and is considered the major part of the energy bill)
im my house, with 4 people, we spend about 250KW for month.

2º curiosity - here in brazil, all the loundry soaps use enzimes to clean clothes, so, that's why all of our washers have soak cicle (mine for exemple have many choices of time for soak, since 15 min to 2hs), and as we don't have hot water, they have only cold water inlets and washes with cold water. just the most expensive washers have internal auto heater and you can imagine that a top load washer in a high water level takes till 3hs to heat the wash water to only 45ºC (113ºF) and spends lots of energy.
well, i wanna know.... how the american soaps works????

thanks to help me to know more about the first world, as i didn't have the luck to born in one!!! hehe...




Post# 334791 , Reply# 1   3/10/2009 at 21:41 (5,523 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

Energy bills in this country vary WIDELY by region and climate. Electricity costs vary widely, as does the availablility of natural gas and fuel-oil, which in some areas are MUCH less expensive than using electricity. Incoming water temperatures also vary widely... so the cost of hot water fromm the taps varies widely too. In hot Florida) a 20 gallon (80L +/-) hot water heater (very small) is sufficent. In my area one so small would not provide ANY hot water).

So even if all of these things within this country WERE homogeneous(uniform)--they are not--, one can not compare the cost of energy in one country to another unless (relative) salaries and taxes can also be compared. Translation: $75,000 of income may sound like a great deal of money outside the U.S.A but within it, it is nice but not "rich". In Brazil this may allow for a palace with servants.

Even between my home in NYC and my partner's 115 miles (185 km) away in the next state there are HUGE differences in energy costs, housing costs and food/clothing costs, taxes and employment/job opportunities.

250 kwh /month here is minimal and I think it can be reached within even a small aparmtment with air-conditioning, where a the lanlord/building owner provides heat and hot water (read: he uses oil or gas) as part of the rent, and one cooks with natural gas.


I used to pay $350 per month combined for electricty and fuel ooil per month all year round,so that is $4,200 per year for energy. Don't forget my climate is both hot in the summer and cold in the winter. Mechanical climate-control is a necssity in the winter and a near-necessity in the summer.

Thomas if everyone had a dryer and a dishwasher in your country the cost of elecricity per unit would GO DOWN. Let's look at it this way- the applied overhead costs of running the electrical grid/network woudl be divided over a much larger consumption base, and they would be smaller on a per-unit basis.

Stated antother way: Cellular(mobile) telephones were expensive at first because the subsrciber base was small and the fixed ovrhead costs had to be divided amoung a "few" users. Todays there are so many subsrcribers that the huge "switch"(computer), antennae and network costs are split over a huge subsrriber base.




Post# 334793 , Reply# 2   3/10/2009 at 21:44 (5,523 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

oopsie you are not Thomas. Sorry

Post# 334801 , Reply# 3   3/10/2009 at 23:07 (5,523 days old) by brasilianguy ()        

hahaha, i'm really not Thomas, i'm much nicer than him, hehehe... (he's a net friend of me here, but is a little boring sometimes!!) Thominhas, i love u!! hehe...

well, back to the post.... huuumm....it's really very diferent, couse here, even being a big country the costs don't vary this much and all use the same, eletricity to heat the shower water..... just the newer apartments have hot water lines for gas heater (i never seen an oil heater)
air conditioner here is very uncommun in homes too, we use many fans. air conditioner is more used in offices

but, some things still bothers me, like, the central heater of the Macaulay Culkin's family house in the movie Home Alone!!! (is that by coal?). I know it's a bit old, but that's the house of my dreams!!!
is that heater still usual? and how that works??!!

Post# 334803 , Reply# 4   3/10/2009 at 23:11 (5,523 days old) by brasilianguy ()        

Ah, i forget, my name is Vinicius, but u all can call me Vinny!!!

Post# 334820 , Reply# 5   3/11/2009 at 00:51 (5,523 days old) by passatdoc (Orange County, California)        
California

 We have a small to medium sized house. No airconditioning, not really needed near the ocean. Gas: water heater, clothes dryer, furnace, range (oven plus cooktop). Electricity: lights and fans and outlets, but no large electric appliances other than the washer (the dryer pulls some electricity to spin its drum but heating is gas).

Electric bill: $35-40 per month

Gas bill: $30-45 per month in heating season (December-March).
$15 per month outside of heating season.

Electricity in California is expensive, about 14 cents per KWH. In other parts of the country, electricity can be as low as 6-8 cents per KWH. Natural gas costs here are relatively low. As a result, people here tend to favor gas water heaters and dryers. There is less impetus for gas ovens, because they have to vent their heat and take in fresh air to supply oxygen to the burners. So the lower cost of the fuel is offset by venting some of the heat back into the kitchen (whereas an electric oven is sealed and doesn't vent off heat).

In some parts of the USA, electricity costs half of what it costs in California, and in those areas, you will see more large electric appliances: water heaters, dryers, ranges. I believe electric dryers are 75% of US sales and gas dryers only 25%.....but in California that ratio is most likely reversed.

Some US homes do not have gas lines. Conversely, sometimes a house will have gas lines in the water heater and dryer areas and no 240V outlets (I have 240V where my dryer sits, but not 240V for a water heater or behind my range, only gas pipes and 120V at both locations.

Post# 334829 , Reply# 6   3/11/2009 at 01:46 (5,523 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        

Australia is not dissimilar to the US. Different parts of the country have different economic, social and climate conditions. The further south one goes the more variable the climate gets. Though, mostly we don't have the types of seasonal extremes that can be experienced in parts of the US, Canada and northern Europe. Hence we don't need to fortify our homes to the extent that is necessary somewhere else.

When I live in the tropics my energy bills are usually quite cheap. There I live in a 20 square three bedroom home, on my own. Everything is electric, I have solar hot water and get by with ceiling fans - I hate airconditioning. Our mean day time temperature in winter is 77 degrees Fahrenheit. At night it may drop down to the mid fifties. In summer it rarely goes above the high eighties. The billing cycle is three monthly and I get by on approx. AUD 280.00 (approx. USD 176.00). Employment opportunities are limited and mainly based around tourism and hospitality, which pay notoriously low wages. Rents and houses are cheaper than in our state capitals, but gasoline, victuals and consumer goods are more costly, as they have to be shipped from our major industrial centers in the south. In Cairns we do have a farmers' market on weekends and there are farms in the area that sell fresh produce to the public. It isn't unusual for them to have an unmanned stall with an honesty box.

When I am in Sydney I live in a 50 square home that I share with quite a few other people. There we use gas and electricity. The mean average day time temperature in Sydney is approx. 78 degrees in summer and 60 degress in winter. The farther away from the ocean one gets, the colder it is at night. During winter parts of Sydney can get frost during the earliest hours of the morning. We use gas for cooking,hot water and heating of the main floor and we heat the three top floor bedrooms with electric oil-filled and convection heaters. The basement has a large wood burning fireplace. Again, the billing cycle is three monthly for both gas and electric. Our average gas bill is about AUD280.00 (USD176.00) and electricity AUD460.00 (USD290.00). In winter we keep the electric heaters running all night and our bill exceeds the $800 mark (US$500.00) for those three months. On top of that, I may spend $300 (US$190.00) on firewood. We spend between three and four thousand dollars on energy per year (i.e. about US$2000). I will be installing solar panels very soon. Right now I can recoup half the installation cost via a government rebate and have already filled out the paperwork to change to an electricity supplier that will buy any excess power that I produce.

Sydney is Australia's largest city and the cost of living reflects this. There are more job and earning opportunities than in many other parts of the country. Though, different parts of town offer different bargains. For groceries, consumer goods and tradesmens' services it pays to shop around. In my suburb everything is marked up by as much as 30% in comparison to the next couple of suburbs down the line. If I want something built or fixed on the house, many tradies will slap on a surcharge. Hence, I am better off doing my shopping two or three suburbs away and making sure that I get three or four quotes before anyone does anything around the house.

Anyway, I've gotta rush now. Hope this gives you a small snapshot for comparison.

Cheers

rapunzel

Post# 334842 , Reply# 7   3/11/2009 at 05:09 (5,523 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        
Very interesting question!

 ...as every question regarding energy and habits around it!

In Italy (is this a developed country? lol) ;) energy prices are among, if not, the highest for a nation part of the OCSE.
Retail electricity prices are on the averange of 0,23€ per KW/h that translates to 0,30$ or 0,21£ per KW/h.
The averange bill for a 4 people household can be as low as some 90€ per billing cycle (usually 2 months) for a use of 2500 KW/year and a 3,3KW power contract to some 250/300 € for high consumption (some 5000KW/year) and 6,6KW power contract; low consumption families benefit of reduced rates.
Heating is most of the times gas (methane but also GPL in big canisters that last the whole season are quite common, expecially in areas not served by the gasducts) or diesel. Coal is virtually not used while some rural areas enjoy the use of wood and wood pellets.
The heating bill for my flat (noth Italy, outside averange temperature of -5°C and 130sqm of heated surdace at a costant 21°C from october to may) is of 2400€ per year.
This doesn't include the expense for water heating that are of around 40€ per month (appliances all use cold water).
Another situation can be the south (110sqm flat, outside temperature of 5°C, inside at 19°C as at my parents) combined heating and hot water is of around 1200€ per year, both using methane.
Electric heating, save for small portable heaters and radiators is not used as it would be prohibitive to run it.
Finally clothes dryer are an expensive to run luxury as a single load can cost even 1€ to dry.

Totalling the energy costs it can be:

Noth Italy, continental climate, 4 people, averange insulated house, averange energy consumption of 3500KWh/year

2000€ for heating (methane)
800€ for appliances electricity
400€ for hot water (methane) to 800 (electric)

South Italy, mediterrean climate, 4 people, medium insulation house, same averange consumption of 3500KWh/year

700€ for heating (methane)
800€ for appliances electricity
150€ to 500€ for heating water (note that in the south electric water heaters are more common)

Finally the averange EER of the air conditioners installed in Italy is 3 KWt/KWe and depending on the usage they can double the electric bill like nothing.

2° As far as I know virtually no machine since the 80s has a soak cycle and all except a few liquid detergents have enzymes (one example is Henkel's BioPresto Sensitive that is supposed to be a mild detergent to sensitive skins, the powder version has the same enzymes as Dixan, the Italian version of Henkel Persil).
But most washing machines heat water starting from cold and have a "profile" wash, even my ill fated cheap Whilpool, and with a running time of one hour and a half in averange the enzymes have all the time to do their job.

Post# 334869 , Reply# 8   3/11/2009 at 09:16 (5,523 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Vinny

Te pego la fora... ;p

____________________________________

Toogleswitch

"...if everyone had a dryer and a dishwasher in your country the cost of elecricity per unit would GO DOWN..."


This would be a wonderful dream, but surely isn't the true brazilian story.

If everyone had a dryer and a dishwasher, the BR president, Mr. Lula (ridiculous, stupid, alcoholist, dumb, lier, etc, etc, etc) would say we're having another power crisis and increase the price of electricity using the excuse they need more money to build more dams.

Or maybe he would create a new politic project, like the school aid, family aid, or Zero-hungry.

Now would be the plug aid, or dryer aid, maybe dry aid.


Actually, the President of Brazil needs a Band aid... ON HIS MOUTH!

Post# 334882 , Reply# 9   3/11/2009 at 10:44 (5,523 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
Here in the Sunflower state

 iheartmaytag's profile picture
We sit on some of the largest natural gas fields in the world, so we pipe it in from Oklahoma (go figure) well at least they get to increase the rates for transmission. My gas bill this winter has been very reasonable as we had a mild winter this year. I averaged about $65-$90 from Nov. to Feb. The winter of 07-08 I saw a few $300 bills. There is a minimum of $39 just to have the service turned on in your home. During the summer months, my actual usage is just for the Hot water tank and very small about $6.

Electricity is a monopoly ran by some evil, evil, greedy people called Westar Energy. We have one Nuclear plant that when put online 10 years late and $3billion over budget raised our electricity rates to some of the highest in the nation. The rest of the state's electricity is generated by Natural gas, Coal or Wind. They too are surcharged so our beloved Westar can recoop the cost of the Wolfcreek Nuclear Plant. With the current increase that was granted them by the Kansas Corp. Comm. 14% we are paying 22 cents per KW. With an electric stove, dishwasher, washer, dryer, celing fans, security lighting and cooling an 1874 sq.ft home my monthly bill runs about $125-$250 summer, and $55-$75 winter. Electric also has a convenience fee for having this wonderful survice to you home. It cost $15 per month to help them maintain their transmission lines.




Post# 334884 , Reply# 10   3/11/2009 at 11:10 (5,523 days old) by askomiele (Belgium Ghent)        

Here Belgium, should be a free liberale electricity market sinds 2007, well it's not. We pay not that much per kilowatt (7.1188 eurocent/kwh during day and 3.3229 eurocent/kwh during nights and weekend) but min €140 of the bill are taxes + €448 for distrubition + €3 for renting the meter and €72 to pay for distrubution along the highvoltage lines. We use, dishwasher, electric waterheater and electric dryer included, in total 10200 kWh a year. In total we will pay €1200 a year.
Oh an there is no gaslines around here so we heat the house with a pelletstove.

50% of our electric is produced nuclear.

Post# 334886 , Reply# 11   3/11/2009 at 11:39 (5,523 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
Interesting fact

 In Paraguay, as 98.9% of the energy is produced by the Itaipu dam (50% Brazil and 50% Paraguay) and Paraguay has a huge profit selling big part of this energy to Brazil (Brazil gets 87% and paraguay only 13%), Electricity is very cheap.
An ordinary family house, with electric shower heads, air conditioners running 24 hours a day, washing machine and all other appliances pays the equivalent to 5 dollars per month.

Here in my office (lights, computers and 2x 30.000Btu A/C) the bill is never higher than 2.5 dollars per month.


BUT...

Phone:
1.1 dollars per minute (local call)
7.65 dollars per mnute (if you call to a mobile)
14.95 dollars per minute if you call from Paraguay to Brazil


Internet:
900 dollars/month 256kbps dsl
(that's why I have a Brazilian link illegally sent to paraguay by radio)

Cable TV:
350 dollars/month (only 30 basic channels)
1560 dollars/month (all 98 channels)

awful, isn't it?


Well, now the good things...


Supermarket:
30 dollars one can buy everything needed for a month, including some fancy products and maybe one or two bottles of wine.

Hairdresser:
50 cents for a fancy haircut

Cars:
That's the most unexplainable:
Mercedes SUV, brand new at the mercedes dealer 10 thousand dollars

Toyota corolla sedan $6.000
Chevrolet Spark (made in USA): $1200
Chevrolet HHR (Also made in the US, by the way it will be my next car) $3000 (and a stupid tv commercial saying $2999,99)

Laptop computer TOL, Sony, Toshiba or HP: $200 (windows Vista Ultimate included)

Post# 334887 , Reply# 12   3/11/2009 at 11:43 (5,523 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
Argentina

 John got amazed when we went to a liquor store in Argentina.

Vodka Absolut: 13 dollars
Limoncello: $2
Bottle of wine (fancy, delicious and very expensive brand) $4
Moet et Chandon $8


So... Argentina is the best country to get drunk. LOL

Post# 334983 , Reply# 13   3/11/2009 at 21:12 (5,522 days old) by brasilianguy ()        

as much as i read the posts over this site, as much as i hate brazil and love USA.
i had already listened that in usa the energy price variate around the country. but, the great thing is that there u can choice if u'll have a gas or an electric dryer for exemple.
here in brazil we don't have gas dryers, that would be the only way we could dry clothes automaticly. the only gas dryers we have are the old ones, from the 70s and 80s, that came from USA and the Duet, imported from usa, but for an umpayble price of $2500 (5000 reais, my family lives with 2000 reais for month!!!). the olds are too expansive too, couse they're rare!!
the electric dryer we have, national, are too bad, they're vented, but takes 2 hours to dry a load ans spend too much energy.... We have the Affinity electric dryer in our market too, a little cheaper than the Duet, but still too expansive, and is electric!!!

well, i'd like to say too, taht i think that we hadn't a great introduction of that great appliances here, like it happened in usa! i saw a comercial of the youngtown dishwasher where the lady says "why do dishes the old way if u can do it the modern way?"
9 in 10 brazilian housewives hate dishwasher couse they think that u need to pre wash the dishes b4 put in the machine! but they really never used one, they just listened about, but about the first ones that was bad! my mother, b4 i bought our dishwasher said "the time i'll take to put the dishes in the machine, i wash them!!!" but after i bought, she really like the dishwasher (well, in trueth she doesn't know to put the dishes there, i put them everyday, but she sees that i take no more then 10 min to put a full pile of dishes that she would take an our to wash!)

Post# 334985 , Reply# 14   3/11/2009 at 21:17 (5,522 days old) by brasilianguy ()        

man, did i understand wrong, or the energy in europe is paid once a year??
i'd like that here in brazil we had lower costs using the energy late night.. i'd run the dishwasher at the cheaper time!!!!

Post# 335017 , Reply# 15   3/11/2009 at 23:46 (5,522 days old) by arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)        

Rapunzel, may I be nosey and ask what suburb you live in?

I live in Ashfield - close enough to the city to enjoy the inner suburban lifestyle, but doesn't have the "trendy" reputation that makes everything so expensive.

Post# 335039 , Reply# 16   3/12/2009 at 04:26 (5,522 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        
Today it was announced that NSW electricity prices are going

 This means an average increase of $50 per billing cycle. Whilst many households will be able to absorb this, many others won't, especially now that our unemployment rate has risen to 5.2% with a projected 7% and above. The idiot from our pricing authority, who was being interviewed and asked why such a large incease, basically said that it wasn't negotiable people will just have to pay it. Nice attitude I say - but that's what one gets in a country that is run by lawyers and bean counters. For anyone is reading this, yes, I am having a bitch of course.

It isn't just about the cost of electricity, it's also that gas, water, sewerage, petrol, groceries are all going in one direction and the increases are well above our rate of inflation. We are constantly told to pay more for all kinds of reasons, some genuine, many of them spurious. Yet, there is no relative increase in additional value being delivered for the extra money that we pay. If I want a pay increase I have to demonstrate what additional value I will bring to my job to justify that increase.

The way things are going, we will become a much more divided nation socially and economically. This is not simply about getting people to be more efficient or exploiting our dependency. It is very much about social equity and opportunities. If our governments, pricing authorities and large business interests keep pushing the envelope as they have of late, they should declare their intentions clearly and unequivocally. What they should really say is that everyone who earns above $150,000 will be entitled to a modern 21st century life style, which includes running water, flush toilets and such like; and everyone else can go and s**t in a ditch.

Rant over! (for now)

That's okay arrrooohhh,

I live in West Pennant Hills. The last time I checked, my suburb had about 1% unemployment and approx. the same rate of people on benefits. Most folk around here own their own businesses or are in upper management. Though, I reckon we will see a lot more for sale signs very soon.

I suspect that we also have a good number of dodgy brothers around the place. A friend of mine, who worked for the ACCC years ago, used to come to this suburb to serve writs on defaulters et al. He used to always joke about the well-dressed wives in their designer labels answering the door, spewing profanities, whilst their husbands were running out the back door in their jocks, jumping fences to avoid being served.

I lived in the inner city years ago. East Sydney to be exact - between Oxford and Williams streets. This was during the eighties and nineties, when it was loads of fun. I moved to Cairns in the late nineties, but now have to spend most of my time back in Sydney again, because of my current business and study commitments.

I actually hate the inner city now. It costs a bundle to get there and there is nothing of interest for me anymore. Sydney is actually really boring now. Occasionally I go to a performance at the opera house, but I don't frequent my old haunts like Oxford Street or Newtown anymore. Maybe it's because I've changed, but the place has gotten grotty and the people are a lot less friendly. Not to mention that the gay clientele seems to have been driven out of many night clubs, bar the most established ones; even though Oxford Street used to be our Castro District.

Anyway, too much information. You only asked to know where I lived and I've given you a bio, but that's me, sweet, warm and friendly.

Cheers

rapunzel

Post# 335041 , Reply# 17   3/12/2009 at 04:56 (5,522 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        
did i understand wrong, or the energy in europe is paid once

 Oh no! Electric bills have 2 months billing cylces
Gas and water are usually 3 months
Telephone is usually 1 or 2 moths

Post# 335045 , Reply# 18   3/12/2009 at 05:42 (5,522 days old) by mrx ()        
Republic of Ireland

 Heating systems:

The most common type of heating in Ireland is hydronic (water circulated through radiators). This is typically heated with:

1) Natural Gas
2) Oil - pressure jet boiler (furnace) burning gasoil, or gasoil/kerosine blend.
3) Solid fuel, turf (peat), coal and wood.
4) Biomass / woodchip boilers are increasingly popular for environmental reasons. These are also automated, making them a viable alternative to gas or oil.
5) Electricity - rare and expensive to run.
6) Ground to water or air to water heat pumps, rare as they're very cost-ineffective in a temperate climate.

Some homes have two or more boilers on the same system, so they can use various combinations of solid fuel (stoves/back boilers etc), gas, oil, solid fuel, wood chip depending on the time of year and cost. The boilers can usually co-exist happily on the same system.

Domestic hot water is usually provided using an insulated copper cylinder referred to as 'the immersion'. This is heated by circulating water from the heating system through a heat-exchanger coil at the bottom of the tank. The tank also has an electric element 'an immersion heater' (hence the name) in the tank. This usually enters from the top of the tank and has a long and a short element. You can set the system to heat only the short element during the day by switching it to a 'sink' setting or, if you want to have showers / baths it can heat the full tank by activating the long element when it's switched to 'bath' mode.

Some homes are also installing solar heating, in this case there's a second heat exchange coil which is heated by a solar panel on the roof.

The water can be heated with any combination of central heating, direct electric heating and/or solar.

The other heating system used here is electric storage heating, although it's not very popular as it tends to be less flexible and more expensive.

This works by using night rate (half price) electricity to heat special storage bricks inside units that look like a typical convector heater. During the day, these units open shutters, or use fans to dissipate the stored heat into the room. The more recent systems have quite complex programming systems which monitor the outside temperature to predict how much heat they will need to store over night.

They work quite well in a well-insulated home, but in an older house they can be very unsatisfactory as they can't provide an instant response.

Some systems over come this by having an ability to provide an instant boost using normal rate power, but this is quite expensive to run.

There's also the old-fashioned approach of open fires. Most homes still have at least one fire place. Often, these contain a very realistic looking gas fire, or an electric flame-effect fire.

Older homes (pre-1930s), often have several. Many homes would have had fire places in every room, including all the bedrooms, but these were typically removed by the 1950/60s as central heating systems became the norm. They are sometimes retained purely for decorative / historic value.

Electric heating using full rate power is generally only used to boost heat in a particular room. It's not very cost effective.

---------

Energy prices (major suppliers):

ESB:
Day: 17.5c [22.35 US cents] / kWh Night: 8.67c [11.81 US cents] / kWh
Bord Gas Energy:
Day: 17.1c [21.85 US cents] / kWh Night: 8.46c [10.91 US cents]/ kWh
Airtricity: (Wind energy supplier)
Day : 15.25c [19.48 US cents] / kWh Night: 7.54c [9.63 US cents] / kWh

Typical electricity bill for my 2-bedroom apartment, using washer, dryer, dishwasher, electric water heating, electric cooking & all the usual electric appliances is : 130 euro / two months.

Gas:
Bord Gas Energy:
6.21c [7.93 US cents]/ kWh (conversion factor = x * 11.5059, where x = volume of gas in cubic meters)

Typical gas bill for my reasonably large 2 bedroom apartment is 150 euro / two months in winter months and about 40 euro per two months in summer months.

------------------------

Communications:

Hard to calculate landline per-min tarrifs as most providers do 'bundles' of calls and broadband.

My current provider has:

7mbit/s broadband
unlimited calls to Irish and UK landlines
and major reductions to mobile phones.
Comes in at just shy of 60 euro per month typically.

I'm thinking of changing to cable though and dumping the landline. It seems quite a bit cheaper if you take TV, broadband and phone all from the cable company.

I also use VoIP, which works out very cheap.

TV:

Public service annual charge (License fee that covers public service broadcasting: €160 / year (US$205)

Digital Cable:
190+ channels (max pack, no premium channels i.e. movies/sports) - €33.50 / month (US$ 42.82)
(cable box includes ability to record,rewind,pause etc)

Digital Satellite:
500+ channels (all basic, no premium movies/sports) €30.50/month (US$ 39)
Sat box includes ability to record,rewind,pause, etc.

Mobile phone:

There are 5 GSM/3G networks and the market's highly competitive, but I wanted an iPhone so I'm being charged a bit over the odds to put it mildly on the 'iPhone sucker' package.


Eh, that's about it!


Currency conversion based on : 1 EUR = 1.27815 USD 1 USD = 0.782383 EUR

Post# 335048 , Reply# 19   3/12/2009 at 06:28 (5,522 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

~The other heating system used here is electric storage heating, although it's not very popular as it tends to be less flexible and more expensive. This works by using night rate (half price) electricity to heat special storage bricks inside.


May I request a link to such a system? TYVM.

Post# 335049 , Reply# 20   3/12/2009 at 06:34 (5,522 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

Here is an interesting concept to "go green" and save money while doing it.

Take a vehicle engine to spin a generator. Harness what is normally waste heat to heat your home and water.


IIRC only 17% of gasoline's energy is turned into motion, the rest is wasted as heat.

With a traditional power plant about 1/3 of the energy of the fule is turned in to usable electriciy. (Therefore 2/3 is wasted as heat and losses). [This is why resistance-coil electical heat is about 3x the price of direct fossil fuel heat, UNLESS one has a nuclear or hydro-electric source, which cost less).

The electricity can be used to run your home, turned into even MORE heat or sold back to the utility.


Some car mechanics, at least, may still have jobs when cars go electric........... Who is going to tune-up your heating system? LOL

CLICK HERE TO GO TO toggleswitch2's LINK
Post# 335050 , Reply# 21   3/12/2009 at 06:37 (5,522 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

~IIRC only 17% of gasoline's energy is turned into motion, the rest is wasted as heat.

In a vehicle, I mean.

Post# 335052 , Reply# 22   3/12/2009 at 06:43 (5,522 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

The idea of using small engines to run a generator and act as a heat source for homes has been thought of before-but the pollution from all those engine exhausts-and the unit will need to run all of the time-would be more than all of the power plants combined.At least with power stations the pollution is easily managed-with small engines it is not.and the fuel costs to the user would be unbearable!!not to mention the pollution of all that engine oil that has to be changed.Would create more of an enviorenmental nightmare.and of course the fire and explosion hazards of all the fuel storage for the private gen sets.

Post# 335067 , Reply# 23   3/12/2009 at 08:38 (5,522 days old) by mrx ()        
Storage heating links - as requested

 Toggleswitch, here's some info from wiki on the storage heating system.

There's a storage heater installed, they just look like an over-sized radiator / convector heater.

Heater below:

CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrx's LINK
Post# 335068 , Reply# 24   3/12/2009 at 08:39 (5,522 days old) by mrx ()        
Control system

 This is the most common storage heater control system found in Ireland.

It is installed on the electrical distribution panel and the heaters are activated using contactors (Relays).

CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrx's LINK
Post# 335069 , Reply# 25   3/12/2009 at 08:55 (5,522 days old) by mrx ()        
Combined Heat and Power

 The gas company here, Bord Gas, has always promoted CHP (Combined Heat and Power) systems for large offices, supermarkets etc.

They consist of a of a gas turbine and the waste heat is used to provide hot water which heats the buidling and provides hot water for normal use.

The power companies provide discounts for large users who agree to minimise their use at peak times, so it has a considerable saving.

Also, you can sell power back into the grid if you've excess.

There are now small systems appearing e.g. from New Zeland company, Whispergen. These can be used with smartmetered homes to provide micro CHP.

Some houses here are also adding wind turbines.

Video below:

CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrx's LINK
Post# 335070 , Reply# 26   3/12/2009 at 10:07 (5,522 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
Toggles

 iheartmaytag's profile picture
A few years ago, Mother Earth News ran an article on running a cabin with a car engine. It worked exactally like you described. The excess heat from the cooling system and exhaust were used to heat water and warm the cabin. The electricity was generated by the running engine. It also used excess electricity to charge storage batteries that would lessen the run time for the engine. This system actually used a salvaged Ford Pinto engine BTW.
Typically the engine was shut down at night.

Drawbacks were the maintenance required, also dependability as you had no backup if the engine refused to start, or experienced a breakdown.

Post# 335179 , Reply# 27   3/12/2009 at 18:54 (5,522 days old) by xraytech (Rural southwest Pennsylvania )        

xraytech's profile picture
Well, here in the South West region of the Keystone State we are sitting on a very large natural gas reserve, the marcellus shale, there is a lot of new drilling activity here so hopefully natural gas rates go down. We are in a very rural area next to the West Virginia Panhandle border and we still do not have public water or sewage, we have a well and septic tank, we do not have gas service either. Our home is all electric, stove, dryer, waterheater, furnace, centreal air, plus the pump for the well runs off of 240v. In the coldest of winter we pay maybe $220 per month for electric and our home is by no means huge butr a slightly larger than usual ranch with finished basement. People with slightly smaller homes with gas pay $250-$300 during winter and maybe around $50 during summer plus an average electric bill of $75. In Pennsylvania we have a cap on electricty costs which is expiring in late 2010 and cost is expected to increase 60% but increase is being phased in from 2008-2011.

Post# 335273 , Reply# 28   3/13/2009 at 05:34 (5,521 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
This is fascinating

 jetcone's profile picture
hearing about all the different costs. It seems to me where people pay less for energy the pay higher costs for food and other things, $900/month for internet WHOA!

So overall it looks like the cost of living might average out.

Here in NE most people heat with Oil but Gas has been catching on. Oil per unit of purchase offers more BTUs than Gas and NE has the most Steam Heat systems left in the US. My system is one pipe steam, the boiler has about 10 gallons of water and about 4 gallons of that has to be converted to steam to heat the radiators.
Right now to fill the oil tank it costs $400.00 and my annual bill for oil runs $2500-$3000 /year. So for 6 months of heating it runs $500/month.
Electric is $2100/year or about $170/month.
Gas which I use for Hot water and cooking is $80/month.
Now this is for a two family house, I supply and pay my tenants utilities so the cost is divided by two households by coming out of the rent. But my house is a 6 bedroom Victorian and even if you lived here in the whole house as one family the oil bill would be on the low side for New England. In the last 17 years I have put many improvements into the house to save energy so for the area of the country this is an efficient house to run.
In summer I have window AC's all over the house as you can't install central AC in a Victorian. The electric bill gets a $400 jump in the summer as the summers here are getting hotter. When I first lived here the ceiling fans took care of everything and I prefer them to AC anytime I can. I even use them when running the AC and find that they really reduce the load and cost of running the AC.
For internet I have a triple play package, unlimited local and long distance phone, 200 channels of cable, 20 channels of High def TV and FIos optical internet for about $140/month.

Rapunzel, there were some really cool bars on Oxford street in the 80's! Patches, The Ox, what was the name of that open street bar that had all the saddles at the bar instead of stools?? It was fun there!

Post# 335280 , Reply# 29   3/13/2009 at 07:29 (5,521 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

~In summer I have window AC's all over the house as you can't install central AC in a Victorian.


ah window-rattlers! Now less than $100 each. Thank-you China!


But there may be quiter alternatives. The heat-pump units make these ideal for a bedroom, or say the one room you live in most. (According to ads,heat-pumps are now useful from Maine to Flordia! For our international friend that is top [north, cold] to bottom [south, hot]of country). This way less of the home needs to be heated as hot, saving energy (Read: money).


In a Victorian, it may be possible to install cooling from the basement blowing up to the main level, via floor vents. Of course, the trick is getting one big ceiling or high-wall return as high up as possible.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO toggleswitch2's LINK
Post# 335281 , Reply# 30   3/13/2009 at 07:34 (5,521 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

Here is another type of central climate-contol for "architectural" homes where traditional (large) ducts and vents/grilles/registers dont' work well....


www.unicosystem.com/...

not to be confused with

www.skiviez.com/Catalog/Mens-Unde...

CLICK HERE TO GO TO toggleswitch2's LINK
Post# 335288 , Reply# 31   3/13/2009 at 09:03 (5,521 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        
Oh such fond recollections!

 Hi Jetcone,

That was another life time, but one of great memories. The bar you are referring to used to be called the Saddle Tram(p), which was attached to the Exchange Hotel. It had the tiniest dance floor that was about three or four feet off the ground, if memory serves me well. It made for very intimate dancing with strangers and, yes, there were those notorious saddle bar stools. The Exchange Hotel had hundreds of stuffed toys hanging from the ceiling and at the back was a set of stairs, which led to another basement bar that was only dimly lit with those purple lights that made everything white fluoresce. The only thing one could make out about others was the white of their eyes, teeth and the lint on their clothes. Much fun could be had there.

The most notable thing I remember about Patchs was the light-up dance floor and the video screen. It didn't win prizes for best decor, but it was good fun. Patchs used to get raided for drugs a lot and was eventually shut down in the mid-eighties. I think the original owners later re-opened it, after a thorough refurbishment, and called it DCM (Don't Cry Mama), which was also a great club.

Of course you may recall the Mignight Shift, Albury Hotel and, best of all, the Taxi Club. Those are still around, even though many others have disappeared. The Taxi Club was the place when there was no other place left to party. In them days most clubs shut their doors at three or four in the morning, but the Taxi club was always open till whenever and a notorious gathering place for trashed trannies and other sorry, but fun detritus.

Anyway, that was nice of you to bring this up. Perhaps we were only inches away from each other when you were visiting Oxford Street. Stranger things happen all the time.

I think all of these establishments used regular forced air cooling to climate control their premises (gotta stay relevant to the post).

So, when was the last time you came to visit this place?

Cheers

rapunzel


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