Kenmore Washer Starting Issue

Doug -

It depends on your specific machine whether or not it has/had a start capacitor, but from my experience on that era of machine, the vast majority did not have them. Replacement motors from FSP (Whirlpool) have included start capacitors for more than 20 years, so there's no telling what your configuration is without looking at it. You should be able to see the capacitor mounted on the side of the motor, simply by removing the service panel.

Most of the machines in '73 were still standard capacity, and Whirlpool / Kenmore did not equip many of those with factory start capacitors except on 3-speed motors. From what I've seen, it seems like most of the '73 models had split-phase GE motors. The start capacitors were used on seemingly all the 2-speed large capacity machines, 1974-1986, GE and Emerson both.

Give the belt a tug when the machine is in neutral (make sure it has completely disengaged any spin config.) and see how easy the belt is to rotate. It should be fairly easy. If the pump is putting a drag on the system, you'll be able to tell.

Good strong motors though can usually pull through a siezed pump. The machine won't seem completely normal in other operations, but usually they function enough to agitate or spin. I've seen locked up pumps cause burned belts (from friction), stripped pump pulleys, and completely melted plastic pulleys (on cheap aftermarket pumps).

Even if both your motor and pump are bad, they're simple and cheap, relatively speaking, to replace.

One other thought - how long did the motor run before it cut off? It usually takes a while to trip the thermal fuse in the motor unless the bearings in it are really bad, or it's getting both low speed and high speed current simultaneously from the timer. That was a problem on some models back then, especially the Lady K. If that's what's wrong, the motor won't run long at all before it trips off, and sounds awful when it is running.

Good luck, let me know if I can help further!

Gordon


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Post# 336308 3/19/2009 at 19:26 (5,510 days old) by cycla-fabric (New Jersey (Northern))
Checkrate/Likes Hi Everyone, I have a problem with my 73 belt drive Kenmore washer. I went to use it tonight and when it tried to start agitating, it labored and didn't have the power get going, so I stopped it. I waited a minute and tried it again, and it did the same thing. So I emptied the tub of everything and drained the water out with a wet/dry vac and just tried to see if the machine would spin with an empty tub. Well it started to spin very very slowly and then trip the circuit. So my question is, does this machine have a start capacitor on the motor that has gone bad and needs to be replaced, or is it something else? My gut feeling is, if there is a start capacitor that it has gone bad. I know it's not the motor unless the capacitor is built inside the motor and if it is built inside the motor, then I guess I would have to replace that. But I am hoping it's not. Thanks in advance. Doug

Post# 336319 , Reply# 1 3/19/2009 at 20:37 (5,509 days old) by dadoes (TX,�U.S. of A.)
Checkrate/Likes Check the pump. If it has trouble running in neutral drain, when the tranny and spin clutch are not engaged, could be the pump is stuck, putting a drag on the belt/motor.

Post# 336346 , Reply# 2 3/19/2009 at 21:39 (5,509 days old) by ttuee2006 ()
Checkrate/Likes If the motor starts AT ALL, then the capacitor is good. When the capacitor goes, the motor will just sit there and hum, but not turn. Like DADoEs suggested, check the pump. If that's all ok, check to see if the motor is actually pulling out of it's start winding. If it isn't, it could be that the centrifugal switch is stuck. If all else fails, the bearings may be tight in the motor. You might try unplugging the machine and tugging on the belt to make it turn. See if it's hard to move. If it is, then you need to track down that's putting drag on the motor. If it's not, you've got motor problems.

Post# 336349 , Reply# 3 3/19/2009 at 21:52 (5,509 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes Doug - It depends on your specific machine whether or not it has/had a start capacitor, but from my experience on that era of machine, the vast majority did not have them. Replacement motors from FSP (Whirlpool) have included start capacitors for more than 20 years, so there's no telling what your configuration is without looking at it. You should be able to see the capacitor mounted on the side of the motor, simply by removing the service panel. Most of the machines in '73 were still standard capacity, and Whirlpool / Kenmore did not equip many of those with factory start capacitors except on 3-speed motors. From what I've seen, it seems like most of the '73 models had split-phase GE motors. The start capacitors were used on seemingly all the 2-speed large capacity machines, 1974-1986, GE and Emerson both. Give the belt a tug when the machine is in neutral (make sure it has completely disengaged any spin config.) and see how easy the belt is to rotate. It should be fairly easy. If the pump is putting a drag on the system, you'll be able to tell. Good strong motors though can usually pull through a siezed pump. The machine won't seem completely normal in other operations, but usually they function enough to agitate or spin. I've seen locked up pumps cause burned belts (from friction), stripped pump pulleys, and completely melted plastic pulleys (on cheap aftermarket pumps). Even if both your motor and pump are bad, they're simple and cheap, relatively speaking, to replace. One other thought - how long did the motor run before it cut off? It usually takes a while to trip the thermal fuse in the motor unless the bearings in it are really bad, or it's getting both low speed and high speed current simultaneously from the timer. That was a problem on some models back then, especially the Lady K. If that's what's wrong, the motor won't run long at all before it trips off, and sounds awful when it is running. Good luck, let me know if I can help further! Gordon

Post# 336411 , Reply# 4 3/20/2009 at 06:47 (5,509 days old) by cycla-fabric (New Jersey (Northern))
Checkrate/Likes Thanks for the replys, as of right now the spin tub turns freely by hand and the agitator is locked and will not move back and forth by hand. When I turn the machine on in spin portion of the cycle as I said before it starts very slowly and then trips the circuit. I will have to look and see if it has a capacitor on it, by the looks of the motor it looks original to the machine which is a 1973 Kenmore 800 model the same as Jason has.

Post# 336420 , Reply# 5 3/20/2009 at 08:36 (5,509 days old) by ttuee2006 ()
Checkrate/Likes *I think you missed it...* You missed what we were saying......if the motor starts AT ALL.....that means if it even labors.....the capacitor is good.....if it even has one! The agitator usually is locked since it goes through an array of gears, and the tub normally will spin by hand. You should be tugging on the belt on the bottom of the machine. Can you easily pull it around a few revolutions? When the machine is in neutral, all it should be driving is the pump, so it should be pretty easy. It still sounds to me like it's not coming out of "Start" on the motor, which if it's not a serviceable motor will probably require motor replacement.

Post# 336430 , Reply# 6 3/20/2009 at 10:00 (5,509 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes Doug - If the basket turns freely, the machine is probably in 'spin'. In neutral or agitate, the basket should not be able to be hand turned at all. At the same time, the agitator should be free to move and not locked. The only time they lock in a WP belt-drive is when agitate is engaged. Therefore it sounds as though you have agitate and spin engaged at the same time. My thought then is that you've got a problem with the control magnet / wigwag, or an internal failure in the transmission. This could explain the drag on the motor. If this were my situation, I would look at the wigwag and cam bars, then tug on the belt. Can you take a picture in there for us? Gordon

Post# 336444 , Reply# 7 3/20/2009 at 12:55 (5,509 days old) by cycla-fabric (New Jersey (Northern))
Checkrate/Likes I will take a look under the machine tonight when I get home from work today and post a picture and see whats going on. Doug

Post# 336487 , Reply# 8 3/20/2009 at 18:56 (5,509 days old) by cycla-fabric (New Jersey (Northern))
Checkrate/Likes Just to let you know I got under the machine tonight and got it up and running again. It seemed to me that one of the cam bars that the wig wag goes back and forth on moves, well I happened to move it back and pull on the belt and for some reason everything fell back into place again and the agaitator released and the basket brake locked the basket. I turned the machine on and it ran fine. So thank you to all that responded to my problem, you helped me out. Thanks again Doug

Post# 336490 , Reply# 9 3/20/2009 at 19:28 (5,509 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()
Checkrate/Likes Don't know how or why, but sometimes just rotating the clothing basket as the machine is trying to agitate accomplishes the same thing. At least it worked with my aunt's late 60's RCA whirlpool belt-drive wig-wag machine. WHY this issue arises is quite another story.