Thread Number: 21681
"upper rack safe"...does this warning always have to be followed?
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Post# 341352   4/10/2009 at 09:39 (5,492 days old) by passatdoc (Orange County, California)        

Now and then you will see articles, mainly plastics, labeled as "upper rack dishwasher safe". Certainly, if a dishwasher has an exposed heating element and in particular if heated dry is used (assuming it's still even an option), a plastic utensil will be exposed to greater heat on the lower rack and may warp or melt.

However, some newer dishwashers do not have exposed heating elements, and there is no "heated dry" option (vs. "energy saver dry") any longer. My eight year old Bosch has a concealed heating element and drying occurs because water condenses on the steel tub sides, pulling water off the dishes and plates....the heating element does not activate during the drying phase.

So, in this setting, would the temperature experienced by a plastic utensil really vary that much between top and lower racks? It seems that the temperature would be rather uniform throughout the tub.

I have had some plastics that warped...usually large, thin-walled plastic containers from Costco (nuts, candy, popcorn, etc.) that I was trying to recycle for other uses. However, the warping occurs regardless of rack level and most likely signifies that this light plastics were never intended for a 140 F final rinse!! (in fact they probably were never intended for dishwasher use, period!!).

However, if you only count items that were meant to be reusable, like the Glad food storage containers you get at the market (good for food storage or freezing), or lightweight plastics like the bins on a coffee grinder (upper holds the beans, lower holds the ground coffee), I have never had a warping issue in this dishwasher. The previous dishwasher was a MOL GE Potscrubber (good riddance to bad rubbish) and I always used "Energy Saver Dry" (i.e. exposed heating element off), though had I used the "Energy Hog Dry", I suppose I might have seen some warping.

I recently bought a Panasonic rice cooker and the glass lid--which has a plastic rim and center knob--was marked "top rack safe only". It's gone through a dozen or more washes so far, sometimes upper and sometimes lower rack, without any problems.

Your take?





Post# 341355 , Reply# 1   4/10/2009 at 09:44 (5,492 days old) by maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
If there is

room on the top rack, there it goes. If there is no room left on the top rack, it waits until the next load.




I nearly had a fire start when a hard plastic (Melamine?) utensil inadvertantly touched the heating element in my reverse rack Maytag a number of years ago, so since then, if something reads "top rack only," that's where it goes.


Why take chances? Either with fire, or potentially nasty out-gassing of plasticizers?



Lawrence/Maytagbear


Post# 341360 , Reply# 2   4/10/2009 at 09:59 (5,492 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

Perhaps lighweight items are expected to turn over due to intensity *SNICKERS* of bottom wash-arm.*


*NOT IN TODAY's "let me pee on it" machines.


Post# 341367 , Reply# 3   4/10/2009 at 11:06 (5,492 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
"Upper rack only" is a warning against exposure to the heating element. If there is no exposed element, lower rack is not a problem. If there is an exposed element, it's theoretically possible damage could occur even if non-heated dry is used, depending on the wash cycle -- residual heat radiating from the element after a sani rinse, for example.

Items that obviously can't take 140°F water temp (or whatever it may be) of course shouldn't go in the dishwasher at all.

My DishDrawer heats to 115°F on the Fast Cycle or 105°F for Fast Eco, so that's safe depending on the specific item. It does turn over small, lightweight items, even on the side shelves. I've had "disposable" plastic such as butter dishes or lids get slightly damaged or distorted when they were anchored with a clip or another item pressing against them with some degree of force, and they were softened by high water temps.


Post# 341381 , Reply# 4   4/10/2009 at 13:55 (5,492 days old) by askomiele (Belgium Ghent)        

Well plastic goes always in the underrack... why? Well it never completly dries and so it can drip on other things while sitting in the upperrack. Have a miele so the heating element is hide away and the 45° (+/- 95°F) SPAAR program is not that hot. Plastic on 55° (102°F) is also good. Never had anything shrunk of rechaped by my dishwasher.

Post# 341422 , Reply# 5   4/10/2009 at 18:29 (5,492 days old) by rolls_rapide (.)        

I do plastic on the intensive 60-70 deg C programmes. Otherwise, it sometimes stains orange. Plastic goes in either basket (hidden heater in Bosch). Lighterweight plastic items get blocked in, by me placing heavier items against them so they don't blow away.

Post# 341423 , Reply# 6   4/10/2009 at 18:36 (5,492 days old) by xraytech (Rural southwest Pennsylvania )        

xraytech's profile picture
I have had glad containes warp in the dishwasher(a MOL 3 yr old Kenmore) and I will not put my Tupperware(which I buy exclusively for it's quality) on the bottom rack so if it is too big for the top rack it gets hand washed, not taking any chances on ruining something and voiding my lifetime replacement gurantee

Post# 341460 , Reply# 7   4/10/2009 at 22:04 (5,492 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        
The main reason...

laundromat's profile picture
plastics and everything else recomended to be washed in the upper rack is the main heating element that,in most dishwashers,is there for two reasons.
1. To either maintain a 140 F wash or ,if it is available,maintain the sani temp.selected by the user,to maintain a 150F to 180F wash.
2.To heat up, after the final rinse drainage,to speed up drying.

When washing plastics,they can go anywhere as long as you select the "energy saver" or "cool dry"option.I've been doing that for years


Post# 341507 , Reply# 8   4/11/2009 at 00:15 (5,492 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

Plastics will no longer say Top Rack Only when China retools:-)

Post# 341533 , Reply# 9   4/11/2009 at 04:45 (5,491 days old) by favorit ()        

Like Rolls, I don't care for temp, as my machines have hidden heaters.

Have a 20 y.o. BRAUN food processor. Its plastic tools still survive the 70°C intensive programme.

Vintage detergents formulas with clorine bleach worked far better against discolouration.

Had some pot handles cracked by my old Miele G507 (exposed heater working 30 seconds every minute)

Find that Finish Turbodry/Calgonit Turbotrocken works great on plastics even with a 55°C final rinse

@ askomiele - This is the formula to go from °C to °F degrees :
[( XXX °C * 9/5) + 32]= YYY °F

40°C = 104°F
45°C = 113°F
50°C = 122°F
55°C = 131°F
60°C = 140°F


Post# 343091 , Reply# 10   4/17/2009 at 16:03 (5,485 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Ahhhh

mark_wpduet's profile picture
So that's why today's dishwasher are so quiet because the spray isn't as strong? I have a lower end Whirlpool, not BOL but semi mid range and I can't believe how quiet the thing is. I was so used to hearing the spray noise and I barely hear it; and nothings ever turned upside down like the older machines im used to.

I busted out laughing at the comment above

today's "let me pee on it" machines. ROTF


Post# 343103 , Reply# 11   4/17/2009 at 16:54 (5,485 days old) by favorit ()        
"let me pee" dishwasher AWARD

golden medal goes to some Euro Whirlpools, those ones that have a special,very silent "night cycle". Lower pressure, lower noise (much lower than a fridge)
BUT longer times : f o u r hours.

###### ###### ####### #######

In Euro E'luxes ( AEG,Zanussi ...) to have high pressure using only little water the pump changes speed several times in a minute, so pressure is hi-low-hi-low all the time. Even B.S.H. Bosch/Siemens uses a similar sys, but with different patterns

Do Frigidaires and US E'luxes have something alike ?




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