Thread Number: 22077
kic aka lvz
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Post# 346258   5/3/2009 at 13:22 (5,464 days old) by kic ()        

Hi,
I'm not a new member, just an clumsy cluts that cant remember his own passwords! after several unsuccessful attempts am now able to share some photos etc.
have learned my lesson and will never forget my Aw.org log details again!
Below is the only "Hotpoint" sold on the South African market? these were more commonly known as Defy Automaid Deluxe. could not believe my eyes when this popped up on local gumtree. Have seen a thread with the same machine badged as a Frigidaire? any more info would be greatly appreciated.
thanx.





Post# 346717 , Reply# 1   5/5/2009 at 10:27 (5,462 days old) by dnastrau (Lords Valley, PA)        
Very cool

Cool washer Kic!

Andrew S.


Post# 346746 , Reply# 2   5/5/2009 at 12:47 (5,462 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
OMG

Thats so weird

They were badged as Frigidaires in the UK - Its akin to what my mothers first washer was but with a different dial/fascia but the fascinating thing is that machine above has the Hotpoint UK drum but not any other Hotpoint features/characteristics,

Could of of been made in the UK or Italy?

If it was made in the UK was my mothers first machine a Hotpoint in disguise?

This opens up a right can of worms for me lol.

Rob


Post# 346748 , Reply# 3   5/5/2009 at 12:48 (5,462 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
Frigidaire

Post# 346751 , Reply# 4   5/5/2009 at 12:52 (5,462 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
UK HOtpoint Drum

Post# 346756 , Reply# 5   5/5/2009 at 13:30 (5,462 days old) by kic ()        
u.k drum

this machine eventually evolved into the one below!! the previous model to that is known also as Sangiorgio tema on the European market. here in S.A they known as Defy Automaid and have been S.A top seller for decades.

Post# 346764 , Reply# 6   5/5/2009 at 14:54 (5,462 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
This is the machine I posted minus its skirt, our 9560

Post# 346765 , Reply# 7   5/5/2009 at 14:55 (5,462 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
Its rather similar to the Zanussi/Hotpoint Liberator and the Colston/Aristons

Post# 346766 , Reply# 8   5/5/2009 at 14:57 (5,462 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
Ariston

Our 950XD


Post# 346793 , Reply# 9   5/5/2009 at 16:35 (5,462 days old) by kic ()        
well in that case...

have a look at these...

Post# 346794 , Reply# 10   5/5/2009 at 16:38 (5,462 days old) by kic ()        
above is the combo model

and below a close up of the control panel and a 80's model. (same machine. new face:)

Post# 346795 , Reply# 11   5/5/2009 at 16:39 (5,462 days old) by kic ()        
defy automaid

close up

Post# 346796 , Reply# 12   5/5/2009 at 16:46 (5,462 days old) by kic ()        
2003 model

this was the last one to get a "face lift".

Post# 346978 , Reply# 13   5/6/2009 at 12:26 (5,461 days old) by superelectronic (London, UK)        
Alias....

Those Defy models have been sold in the UK under the Blomberg and Proline names. The drum, door handle, buttons and programmes on the Kombomaid are identical to the Proline W850 I have in my kitchen. I'm not surprised they're good sellers elsewhere - you've got to give them credit for being durable. I can't get rid of my machine for trying (drives me mad - it's too basic for me - anything other than cottons washing requires manual intervention...but maybe I'm fussy).

Shouldn't think the Frigidare machine had anything to do with British Hotpoint machines of the 80s & 90s - drum looks similar, I grant you, but with no raised lip out to the door seal area. True Hotpoints (so not the Zanussi hybrid, classic as it may be) in the 18- and 95- series never had removable drain filters either.

It's nice to find out a bit more about the origins of my machine via its relatives, even if I'm not a fan. Thanks for posting the pics, Kic!

Alex


Post# 347049 , Reply# 14   5/6/2009 at 14:19 (5,461 days old) by favorit ()        
Defy .... Blomberg ... Brandt !!

It's really a mystery machine :-))

Detergent drawer is the same of 1980ish Zannies (badged also as Privileg, Tricity-Bendix ...)
The Frigidaire similar machine Rob has posted up is another clue towards Zannoland ....

BUT ... that dial ... those buttons are the same of SANGIORGIO late 1970s machines.
Sangiorgio is an Italian brand that was bought by Elco-Brandt in the 90s. The other DEFY looks like an Ocean (Brandt Italy) machine. Blomberg : another "Brandt" clue

Definately I'd say Brandt ..... the odd thing is that SanGiorgio had this look MUCH before they had to do with Brandt. Maybe SaintGeorge knows it ;-)


Post# 347074 , Reply# 15   5/6/2009 at 16:17 (5,461 days old) by kic ()        
thank you

I have enjoyed reading through all the messages and appreciate everyone's info.
Favorite, do you know more about this machine and where it comes from? please post pic's of those that you mentioned in your message.

Am searching for a pic of a Philips front loader.Was around 6 years old when my mom bought it. Mid 80's. I remember it being a very basic model with the timer knob on the right that pulled to startpush to stop and a rocker switch for cold or heated wash. It had orange writing on a brown fascia. please anybody with pics or info... put me out of my misery. LOL.
thanks again!
Louis.



Post# 347090 , Reply# 16   5/6/2009 at 17:12 (5,461 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
Its a weird one Alex I know. Just seems they are a hash of machines and possibly copied ideas/designs.

Im still completely in the dark about my mothers Frigidaire for the facts I have about it.

Bought in 1982
Was £199 from Comet
FWIR it had a chrome door and a brown fascia.
600rpm

I really ought to ask my folks more and see if any pictures I have confirm what it is.

Had a tinker with the Liberator this weekend and got the bearings fixed - massive thanks to Mathew there.
Not sure what videos Paul has on our camera but if there are any decent ones im sure they will be uploaded....





Post# 347108 , Reply# 17   5/6/2009 at 18:45 (5,461 days old) by kic ()        
Brown facia?

The "Frigidaire" and "Hotpoint" posted above were on our market from 1973-1980 and had a brown fascia that was meant to look like wood. did you know that they also had a little hidden metal plate that you could pull out from the side of the soap dispenser. it had a wash guide according to the machines various cycles printed on it!

Post# 347288 , Reply# 18   5/7/2009 at 15:46 (5,460 days old) by favorit ()        
wooden like fascia and SANGIORGIO

yes KIC, that's true ! Here there was the Sangiorgio badged model in those years.

The dark fascia Kombomaid with the stainless steel door here was GHIBLI SANGIORGIO, but had a square door, round door was on BOL models only. Once I went to Malta and saw some badged as GALA

SANGIORGIO (now SPEL) was a factory close to La Spezia harbour (Liguria, Genoa region). They stopped production on last december and now about 150 people are without job....

Sangiorgio washers have always been quite reliable and strong (expecially the THESI series, those with the square door like old real Hoovers )

They invented the GEYSER, an alternative to zanussi jetsystem.
A recirculating pump sprayed a powerful jet under the drum instead than over.

Anyway Sangiorgio was bought by Ocean (Elco-Brandt) in 2004 Since then the machines made in La Spezia were badged Sangiorgiorosso www.sangiorgiorosso.com... (no more working)
and the original Sangiorgio badge went on Elco-Brandt machines, that are reliable if Blomberg made ... rather crappy if Ocean or Fagor made

Pics... I'm sorry, my scanner has gone on srike again :-((
Maybe Diomede (Vivalalavatrice) has some pics


Post# 347295 , Reply# 19   5/7/2009 at 16:50 (5,460 days old) by kic ()        
square door

There was a black face 6 kg model sold here. It also had a black square door with the standard chrome handle. The black face models had a push-button on the chrome handle. Have also seen a few with a cream square door and would guess them to be earlier models. Vaguely remember something to do with geyser, but could be wrong. There was a Grey face model known as Defy Heritage.

Thank you for the detailed info Favorit! maybe you can help me find that Philips front loader that I mentioned earlier? so far no luck... Do you know any Philips machines from the 80's fitting my description? don't want to be a nuisance, but I'm starting to give up hope of ever finding it :(


Post# 347309 , Reply# 20   5/7/2009 at 18:28 (5,460 days old) by favorit ()        
Philips before whirlpool age

guess it was somewhat similar to this one

Post# 347310 , Reply# 21   5/7/2009 at 18:37 (5,460 days old) by favorit ()        
Philips PM system

3 knobs : timer, thermostat, spin selector
Those were the first washers with several spin settings, due to a permanent magnet (DC) motor . Other washers of the age had 1 (or 2) wash speeds and 1 (or 2) spin speeds

For sure Louis (Foraloysius) knows much more than me about Philips, expecially about those wonderful 1000 rpm toplader of the 70s with a glass lid


Post# 347319 , Reply# 22   5/7/2009 at 18:56 (5,460 days old) by favorit ()        
toplader Philips Whirlpool

late 80s. Moulds still were true philips/bauknecht ones, whirlcontamination arrived a bit later
Those toploaders were made in France (Amiens)


Post# 347324 , Reply# 23   5/7/2009 at 19:16 (5,460 days old) by kic ()        
close

can see the resemblance, but it only had one dial on the left and a rocker switch middle soap drawer left. the dial protruded of the fascia and looked more like a small door knob- pull to startpush to stop. anyhow thanks for help!



Post# 347634 , Reply# 24   5/9/2009 at 05:06 (5,459 days old) by superelectronic (London, UK)        
Mid 1980s Philips

Kic, I don't think you're going mad at all! Casting my mind back to a trip to a local second hand shop in 1995 or so, I can recall seeing a Philips 086 that matches the description you give above. For the first half of the 80s Philips front loaders had the soap dispenser on the left hand side and programmer on the right and on the 086 it was indeed the size of a small doorknob. I don't recall the switch with much clarity and my guess would be that it gave you the half speed spin for synthetics rather than a cold wash, but different territories may have had different needs. Brown and orange were definitely the colours used at the time, though.

Has anyone got an 80s Philips (or perhaps the Electra rebadge in the UK) in their collection? They were definitely popular at the time until Whirlpool came along, after which I suspect they were viewed with suspicion and in GB households seemed to go Hotpoint or Zanussi crazy as I recall. I'd really love to see a video of that spin drain used on Philips machines but YouTube seems to draw a blank, surprisingly! Have to say I was very impressed the one occasion I used a Philips 084 - quick, thorough and well programmed for the average wash (code 4 - 50 degrees, cool down, 4 generous rinses and straight into full spin. No messing about like with the Hotpoint we had at the time to add conditioner and set to long spin).

Another oddity mentioned above is Fagor, simply because the brand is mentioned in the Haynes washing machine manual making it sound popular yet I recall no-one having one. Were they ever sold in the UK 20-odd years ago?

Any answers greatly appreciated!

Alex



Post# 347659 , Reply# 25   5/9/2009 at 09:19 (5,458 days old) by superelectronic (London, UK)        
A small correction...

...sorry, Kic, just realised you didn't say anywhere you thought you were "going mad" - must read more carefully before setting off on a post! You get the idea though...

Al


Post# 347663 , Reply# 26   5/9/2009 at 10:03 (5,458 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Those Philips washers were quite expensive in these days. The Philips toploader I have cost about the same as a more or less BOL Miele machine!

Anyway, those PM motors made it possible to control the rpm's on the spin. The spinspeed of the TOL models could be set everywhere between 120rpm and 850rpm. The PM motors are rather noisy during the wash, but relatively silent during the spin.

Philips actually made several toploader models. The smaller one with the glass lid didn't spin very fast, I think it was under 400rpm because they didn't have suspension. There was also wider (square) models with higher spin speeds (up to 1000rpm indeed) but I don't remember that model being sold with a glass lid.



Post# 347675 , Reply# 27   5/9/2009 at 11:16 (5,458 days old) by kic ()        
Don't worry

I didn't even notice it... probably because I am.

Post# 347718 , Reply# 28   5/9/2009 at 17:37 (5,458 days old) by saturn74 ()        
maybe...is this?

this is a Philips frpm 80's
it's a basic machine, we had one for 10 yrs badged IGNIS, it had one knob and two buttons: cold wash and rinse hold.


Post# 347736 , Reply# 29   5/9/2009 at 19:48 (5,458 days old) by favorit ()        
Square toplader and glass lid

Louis, you're right.

My mind mixed up old images of real Dutch Philips and Italian Ignis :)

Actually those square toplader with a glass lid were made here in IT in the (ex) Borghi plants (Varese, close to the swiss border ) .
They were badged either PHILIPS, IGNIS or FIDES and never had more than 600 rpm spins


Post# 347739 , Reply# 30   5/9/2009 at 20:06 (5,458 days old) by favorit ()        
"Another oddity mentioned above is Fagor, simply becaus

Obvious. Fagor is a Spanish brand, you can find it only in Spain and France, for sure not @ Comet or @ Currys :-)

link to stories & miracles of FagorBrandtGroup


CLICK HERE TO GO TO favorit's LINK


Post# 347770 , Reply# 31   5/10/2009 at 01:11 (5,458 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
"Fagor is a Spanish brand, you can find it only in Spai

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Actually you where more than likely to find it at Comet & Independants because a lot of own brand machines from the 70`s to 90`s where made by Fagor etc...hence in the Haynes manuals ...

Those Phillips washers from the 80`s where one of the best around, especially with the Permag motors & Polypropelyne Drums all with a 10 yr guarantee, they where actually one of the main selling brands after Hotpoint, Hoover, Servis, Zanussi then Phillips.....the independants loved them, Electricity board shops had them badged as their own as well, the dryers where also a great success...AND yes that spin drain is to be seen to be believed......will get a vid done this week to show....talk about a whirlpool vortex!!!

Heres my Electra badged Phillips, Model AWF682, 10lb load, 800rpm variable spin, also have the matching dryer but needs a deep clean have lived in a 60 a day ciggy house!!!


Post# 347772 , Reply# 32   5/10/2009 at 01:37 (5,458 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Hotpoint Defy

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Welcome to the club kic (Louis)and what an interesting machine you bring here...I saw the Defy version at a friends house in Melville a few yrs ago, cream fascia, definately wasnt anything to do with the Hotpoint brand over here,

Interesting about the Frigidaire model, which was made by General Motors both here and in France, so who made what for who has been a bit of a mystery...the blue fascia looks similar to the early Fischer & Paykel branding from NZ, I wonder as the early toploaders where based on the Hotpoint UK machine, perhaps there was a franchise / licencing agreement??

What machine do you have & use??

Rob, was your mums machine definately a Frigidaire?? could it have been a New Pol, Caravell or Soverign?? which Comet sold a lot of as own brand....Cheers, Mike


Post# 347778 , Reply# 33   5/10/2009 at 04:36 (5,458 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Nice machine Mike!! Looking forward to a video!

Fagor is sold in the Netherlands too:


CLICK HERE TO GO TO foraloysius's LINK


Post# 347780 , Reply# 34   5/10/2009 at 04:51 (5,458 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
Philips

As far as I know my Grandad still has the Philips D163 dryer they had when I was a kid.
I always remember it in their previous house only a few cabinets away from the Philco in the kitchen.

One day I will ask for it if he dosnt still use it.





Post# 347781 , Reply# 35   5/10/2009 at 05:02 (5,458 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
Actually those square toplader with a glass lid were made he

Is it this!?

Multiprogram serie was not with spin speed selector (the particula featured was the BIO timed withh the dedicated knob) which was a features of following models of a line just called PMSystem. The control panel was inox/brown but really never seen with glass lid. The BOL model wash the Italian famous K12, but I heard of a K14 or a K15 just like the K12 but with some features more like the spin speed selector.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO vivalalavatrice's LINK


Post# 347815 , Reply# 36   5/10/2009 at 13:49 (5,457 days old) by kic ()        
saturn74

Your pic is the almost spot on!~Only needs a rocker switch (left right) the drum I will describe best I can: looking into drum the back had a big circle almost like a tea cup saucer and around it shapes similar to a big leaf... I think 4 or 6 all the way around the "circle". I hope at least one person gets this!?!

Post# 347818 , Reply# 37   5/10/2009 at 14:08 (5,457 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
Oh how i love those philips machines.

I was lucky enough to use them on several occasions. My dads business partner & his wife inherited a matching set as the one in my picutre which sadly ment they matching zanussis FL811 & I forget the model of the dryer went into storage before being sold :-(

I always remember the philips model woyuldn't allow you to turn the drum anti-clockwise. It locked because of the type of motor it used.

Darren


Post# 347827 , Reply# 38   5/10/2009 at 16:08 (5,457 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)        
Absolutely darren.

I too love Philips machines.

The right hand drive, three dial machine posted earlier in the thread is the 1980's Philips model of my dreams.

As a nipper, i always appreciated just how smart they looked. a clean, relatively simple good looking design.

Dont see many about though unfortunately.

Having seen Mikes 'electrilips' workig in full fury I can attest that it is a wonderful machine.
The spin makes for fantastic viewing, as it spins full of water gradually increasing in speed as it drains.
At start of spin, the water swirls all around the drum and over the door, with the permamag motor whine increasing in pitch as speed gathers.
I want one!


Loving the blue facia of the Hotpoint. Not very au fait with this type of machine.
Was Frigidaire the basic design that was cloned, or was the Frigidaire another copy of the same machine?

Cheers
Paul


Post# 347834 , Reply# 39   5/10/2009 at 17:21 (5,457 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
Ahh yes the delectable spin-drain! The Schulthess commercial machines do this, Which is at my local launderette myself and lavamat_jon went to the 2nd time we met!!

Heres a pic

Darren


Post# 347861 , Reply# 40   5/10/2009 at 19:04 (5,457 days old) by favorit ()        
Sangiorgio THESI

Here is an image Diomede posted some time ago. Looks very close to the 80s Defy (coin trap, dials, buttons, dispenser)

@ Diomede -IGNIS square TL- yes, actually I was thinking of that very machine!

@ Mike - sorry, I meant one can't find the Fagor badge in UK, not Fagor-made machines. Oddly I saw here in IT a discarded Privileg dishwasher. Ok it's a Zanussi, but the Privileg/Quelle badge is German stuff only



Post# 347874 , Reply# 41   5/10/2009 at 19:39 (5,457 days old) by favorit ()        
Bauknecht aged like PM system Philips

@ Louis and Mike. This is an early 80s BK. It has nothing to do with Philips washers, yet Philips dishwashers of the age were Bauknecht made (Neunkirchen plant). In the 90s washers still were made in different plants.

When did they started to be the same thing with 2 different badges ?

T.I.A.

(thanks to Matchboxpaul 4 the image)



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