F&P ecosmart

Machines stopped being made to last 20yrs when we stopped being prepared to actually pay the initial purchase price for them.

Mums Simpson Fluid Drive in 1968 was AUD$200 approximately (and I have read on here that it may have been based on a Speed Queen design?). The equivalent amount of money in 2008 is AUD$2000 according the the Reserve Bank of Australia inflation calculator.

The difference is that in 1968, ALL automatic machines were expensive in general and even more so in comparison to wages. But with the coming of cheaper electrics (motors, controllers, timers), better plastics, injection moulding and lighter outer cabinets (especially here in the 80's), machines became more affordable. The upshot is that they lost some of their 'hewn from steel' solidity. Many locally made machines in Oz are still pumping through the laundry 20 years after they were made regardless of the fact they are lightly built in comparison to their 1960's forebears.

The next issue is perceived value for money. All of us seem to want a bargain these days. We (generally) want as much as we can get for our money and really don't want to spend more than we have to to get those bells and whistles and to get the job done. So manufacturers responded again. We now have low end machines which are so cheap it is silly and top end machines from the same manufacturer that STILL don't cost as much as my mothers did in 1968. Then you have the wage equation.

In Australia today, we don't make ANY washing machines or dishwashers. Electrolux moved them offshore into Asia. Regardless, we have no local 'brand' (Simpson, Westinghouse, Electrolux, Hoover [who don't exist here anyway]) that retail a machine in the over $2000 bracket. That is the preserve of mainly Miele, Bosch/Siemens, ASKO et.al.

Wages and affordability also played their part. If something costs comparatively less of your income, many people are less concerned about how long it lasts. If I can buy a machine for AUD$500 that lasts more than 5yrs then am I not in front than if I buy a machine that costs AUD$2000 that lasts for 20yrs when you take inflation into account, wages growth and possibly having to pay interest on my credit card for the dearer machine?

And my last point is wages growth.

In 1968, my mother was an examiner with the Bank of New South Wales - now Westpac. She went as high as a female could go without moving to Sydney (the first female manager was promoted around 1968). Women still had to resign when they became pregnant though this was an improvement on the early 1960's when it was when you got married! Wages were not equivalent. Women earnt about 70% of the male salary for the same job....Anyway, mum was bringing home about $35 per week. This makes her machine worth 6weeks wages. Today, a supervisor in a bank would earn about $700 per week. That's $4200! or nearly 20 times the equivalent 1968 wage....

We are much better off, yet we won't part with the money to buy what we consider to be quality....

So manufacturers don't (in many cases) provide it.


Forum Topics & Rules Manuals & Literature	New users Click-here to sign-up

Post# 350316 5/20/2009 at 08:34 (5,447 days old) by filterflo58 (new york)
Checkrate/Likes What a piece of crap this machine is. Very light use for 2 years and its leaking. I guess tub seal? Funny it happened the morning after i had been soaking something overnight,,maybe it was just too much for the piece of crap..speed queen here I come. Or should I get it repaired? help!

Post# 350318 , Reply# 1 5/20/2009 at 08:43 (5,447 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey)
Checkrate/Likes just don't like these machines...stainless steel interior and yet the rest is mostly plastic...hell of a price to pay for a TOY washer! might be worth going for the SQ

Post# 350383 , Reply# 2 5/20/2009 at 15:23 (5,447 days old) by dadoes (TX,�U.S. of A.)
Checkrate/Likes What model? I have a GWL08 nine years old and an IWL12, no trouble thus far with either. I've not heard of a tub seal leaking, although it can certainly happen just as well as with any other machine. Possibly it's the pump. Do not run the machine with a leaking pump, it can kill the controller board. The pump is easily changed, no tools needed.

Post# 350394 , Reply# 3 5/20/2009 at 16:33 (5,447 days old) by norfolksouthern ()
Checkrate/Likes If it's something easy and cheap to replace, then it's worth fixing. But if there's a problem with the tub seal, maybe it's time to toss it out to the curb and get the Speed Queen. Perhaps someone who needs a free washing machine could fix it. NorfolkSouthern

Post# 350396 , Reply# 4 5/20/2009 at 16:55 (5,447 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)
Checkrate/Likes Our GWL11 washed for 6 for 3 years and now washes for 3... I think it's about 7 years old now, the only problem we've had is the power button failing. Mom loves it and the matching top load dryer!

Post# 350537 , Reply# 5 5/21/2009 at 07:44 (5,446 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)
Checkrate/Likes How about some sensible diagnosis... Is it leaking soapy water or clean water? (so you know if it is inlet hoses, inlet solenoids, etc = clean water; or pump, drain hose, diverter valve, main tub seal, pressure dome, splashing over top, = soapy water) You really need to have a close look at the machine to find out exactly where the leak is coming from. They are an exceptionally easy machine to work on, you can do almost everything with a phillips screwdriver. I believe the diverter valve on these later machines are a common source of trouble. Otherwise they are generally reliable. At the age of this machine, I would bet that it is NOT the main tub seal - F&P use very good seals and bearings, they hardly ever fail.I have fixed dozens of f&p machines, only ever had one which needed bearings and it had had a long, hard life. If you need instructions on how to get inside and where to look, then ask away, I can give more detail. Be aware my knowledge is of the earlier Smart Drive machines, the Ecosmart is a newer derivation of the Smart Drive but they are very similar. Chris.

Post# 350547 , Reply# 6 5/21/2009 at 08:18 (5,446 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)
Checkrate/Likes I agree with Gizmo. My sister and 3 of our friends have F&P smart drive machines. My sisters was 12yrs old almost to the day when it blew the control board and she decided it wasn't worth fixing. One of our friends machines is older and has never been touched. They have 2 teenage boys and I can promise you it has seen its' fair share of soccer kit and other lovely dirty clothes. I gather F&P machines are not cheap in the US, so it would have to be worth investigating what is wrong with it...

Post# 350590 , Reply# 7 5/21/2009 at 11:21 (5,446 days old) by dadoes (TX,�U.S. of A.)
Checkrate/Likes Sorry, I guess I didn't clarify. I have service manuals for GWL03, GWL08, GWL10, GWL11, GWL15, IWL12/15. I'm familiar with the majority of diagnostic and service procedures on these, and have helped several people through another message board. My IWL12 is currently disassembled for some preventative maintenance and a slight modification, so I can easily provide pictures on how to change the pump, diverter, etc. Parts are available at www.searspartsdirect.com...

Post# 350607 , Reply# 8 5/21/2009 at 12:15 (5,446 days old) by toploader1984 ()
Checkrate/Likes what ever happened to the old days when machines used to last 20 years?

Post# 350626 , Reply# 10 5/21/2009 at 13:56 (5,446 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)
Checkrate/Likes *Greed, Inflation, Corporate Profits.* Gosh, that sounds like Royal Bank of Scotland's corporate mission statement!!

Post# 350612 , Reply# 9 5/21/2009 at 12:35 (5,446 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)
Checkrate/Likes *what ever happened to the old days when machines used to las* Greed, Inflation, Corporate Profits.

Post# 350678 , Reply# 11 5/21/2009 at 17:16 (5,446 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)
Checkrate/Likes Machines stopped being made to last 20yrs when we stopped being prepared to actually pay the initial purchase price for them. Mums Simpson Fluid Drive in 1968 was AUD$200 approximately (and I have read on here that it may have been based on a Speed Queen design?). The equivalent amount of money in 2008 is AUD$2000 according the the Reserve Bank of Australia inflation calculator. The difference is that in 1968, ALL automatic machines were expensive in general and even more so in comparison to wages. But with the coming of cheaper electrics (motors, controllers, timers), better plastics, injection moulding and lighter outer cabinets (especially here in the 80's), machines became more affordable. The upshot is that they lost some of their 'hewn from steel' solidity. Many locally made machines in Oz are still pumping through the laundry 20 years after they were made regardless of the fact they are lightly built in comparison to their 1960's forebears. The next issue is perceived value for money. All of us seem to want a bargain these days. We (generally) want as much as we can get for our money and really don't want to spend more than we have to to get those bells and whistles and to get the job done. So manufacturers responded again. We now have low end machines which are so cheap it is silly and top end machines from the same manufacturer that STILL don't cost as much as my mothers did in 1968. Then you have the wage equation. In Australia today, we don't make ANY washing machines or dishwashers. Electrolux moved them offshore into Asia. Regardless, we have no local 'brand' (Simpson, Westinghouse, Electrolux, Hoover [who don't exist here anyway]) that retail a machine in the over $2000 bracket. That is the preserve of mainly Miele, Bosch/Siemens, ASKO et.al. Wages and affordability also played their part. If something costs comparatively less of your income, many people are less concerned about how long it lasts. If I can buy a machine for AUD$500 that lasts more than 5yrs then am I not in front than if I buy a machine that costs AUD$2000 that lasts for 20yrs when you take inflation into account, wages growth and possibly having to pay interest on my credit card for the dearer machine? And my last point is wages growth. In 1968, my mother was an examiner with the Bank of New South Wales - now Westpac. She went as high as a female could go without moving to Sydney (the first female manager was promoted around 1968). Women still had to resign when they became pregnant though this was an improvement on the early 1960's when it was when you got married! Wages were not equivalent. Women earnt about 70% of the male salary for the same job....Anyway, mum was bringing home about $35 per week. This makes her machine worth 6weeks wages. Today, a supervisor in a bank would earn about $700 per week. That's $4200! or nearly 20 times the equivalent 1968 wage.... We are much better off, yet we won't part with the money to buy what we consider to be quality.... So manufacturers don't (in many cases) provide it.