Thread Number: 22531
major problems with my g.e. mobile maid 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 352881   5/28/2009 at 23:35 (5,438 days old) by soberleaf ()        

i decided to tear into the g.e. mobile maid tonite also, ran into a major snag. got the motor and pump off the machine in one peice and got the outer pump housing off as well. then i ran into problems.

i never liked g.e. and always found them to be a pain to work on. this mobile maid is no exception. the design of the wash impeller is that it fits over the motor shaft a good distance and after 47 years or so (we are guessing it to from 1962) it is not budging! one bit!

i have soaked it in pb blaster, and tried to gently pry it up. i don't want to use too much force or it will surely break.

but the problems go deeper than this stubborn impeller.




Post# 352882 , Reply# 1   5/28/2009 at 23:37 (5,438 days old) by soberleaf ()        
i decided to take the bottom

 cover of the motor off to see if there was indeed indication of a pump seal leak into the motor. i was not disapointed one bit! it definately had leaked into the motor!

look at this bearing!!!

Post# 352883 , Reply# 2   5/28/2009 at 23:38 (5,438 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another beautiful pic

 of this rusty mess!

Post# 352884 , Reply# 3   5/28/2009 at 23:40 (5,438 days old) by soberleaf ()        
and i noticed the

 little cooling fins on the rotor of the motor (has a nice ring to it doesn't it) are all bent and scratched. wonder what that is all about?

Post# 352886 , Reply# 4   5/28/2009 at 23:41 (5,438 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another lovely view

 of this lovely motor of this lovely g.e.!

Post# 352887 , Reply# 5   5/28/2009 at 23:46 (5,438 days old) by soberleaf ()        
so i'm gonna let this

 little pump set in pb blaster for about a week and then try to get the impeller off using a wheel puller i am going to make from scratch using a bolt, nuts and metal arms home made.

i definately need to back off from it for awhile as i am quite pissed at the whole g.e. design. i have taken dozens of hobarts apart and lots of other brands too, never have i had this much trouble!

Post# 352890 , Reply# 6   5/28/2009 at 23:52 (5,438 days old) by soberleaf ()        
but i have an idea anyway!

 there is a rule in the house that any dishwasher that is given a home here must eventually run! no exception. so if i can't find parts and i can't get this motor/pump up and running i have an alternative plan. i am going to mount either a d&m pump and motor to this opening or possibly a hobart pump and motor.

or i have several later model g.e. pumps and motors from their horizontal pump designs of later years. i'll figure a way to mount it in that machine.

i look at it this way, right now i have a tub and a hole in the bottom. i will attach something to it that will run! it will be awhile as it's not top priority but it will happen!

Post# 352900 , Reply# 7   5/29/2009 at 00:15 (5,438 days old) by soberleaf ()        
decided to work some more on it here

 here is the bottom of the tub with a rubber gasket in place. dishwasher is flipped upside down.

Post# 352901 , Reply# 8   5/29/2009 at 00:16 (5,438 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here it is with gasket removed

 and set to the side

the size of this gasket is the key!

Post# 352905 , Reply# 9   5/29/2009 at 00:18 (5,438 days old) by soberleaf ()        
now here is a d&m pump and motor

 that i recnetly put a new seal in. it is about to go back onto my sears roto rack.

but the key here is again the diam of this pump housing

Post# 352910 , Reply# 10   5/29/2009 at 00:24 (5,438 days old) by soberleaf ()        
as we can see here

 it is a perfect fit. this pump housing fill fit that size opening in that g.e. tub!

the tricky part will be how to mount it tightly against that gasket! on the d&m machine it mounts with 8 bolts into the pump housing from a flat tub surface.

but this little g.e. has a curved tub all the way down to that opening. but there has got to be a way to drill into that tub and install 8 bolts that would hold this pump housing against that rubber gasket.

Post# 352917 , Reply# 11   5/29/2009 at 00:44 (5,438 days old) by soberleaf ()        
so if worst comes to worst

 and i can't find parts and i can't get this pump and motor operable again this will be my next move! d&m pumps and motors are still available and relatively inexpensive. and there will be a way to bolt it, just not sure yet how to approach it.

but i'm not drilling any holes in that tub until i am sure there is no other way.

but if i do i will probably have the first G.E.D,M machine around! but the way i feel about it tonite i'm calling it the G.D.E.M.!

e.m. means experimental machine, the first two letters are self explanatory and i try not to use that often!




Post# 352922 , Reply# 12   5/29/2009 at 01:51 (5,438 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another idea

 i might be able to silicone that d&m pump housing to the bottom of this g.e. tub. using the same adhesive that they use to basically glue kitchen sinks to the underside of granite counter tops. i watched a friend's sink and counter go in last summer and that's all that holds it in place. if it can hold a sink full of dishes surely it would hold this small motor and pump to that housing.

or their is always liquid steel or epoxy cement like jb weld!

Post# 352968 , Reply# 13   5/29/2009 at 07:53 (5,437 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Balance is the key!

 Peter, I was looking at that motor rotor and can see the "nicks" you are talking about but did not see any indication that it was hitting anything on the housing.
When these motors are built and the cooling fins are added to the tops and bottom of the laminations, the builder then has to make sure the rotor is balanced so it doesn't vibrate when it is running. The rotor is then adjusted for balance by either adding small brass shims or metal is removed from the fin and or castings to balance the rotor. This can be done by drilling small indentations into the casting or also by removing some metal from the fins themselves. Maybe this is what you have here, or of course, the builder was sloppy and banged the rotor around a bit before completion. Also, you dont know if the previous owner took the motor apart and nicked it.

I say go back to the pond fountain and leave this one for now! Find a donor machine and swap out what you need from that one to get this MM going again.

Also, as far as the seal goes.. have you tried a commercial seal suppler? These things are generally off the shelf spec seals so that the engineers don't have to desgin something new when something already exists.
Keep us posted.
Steve

Post# 352987 , Reply# 14   5/29/2009 at 09:51 (5,437 days old) by soberleaf ()        
i agree i am going to

 let it set "as is" for awhile. i have enough to do with my other dishwashers. thank God all my others are either hobarts or frigidaire by G.M. or D&M and i can get parts for all of these.

the pond pump will prob be worked on a bit today is weather is nice here in cinti. yesterday was all rain so i decided to tear into those 2 dishwashers.

i have had a man e mail me telling me he may have parts for that g.e. i am going to call him later. and robert gave me a lead on where i might find an impeller for the d&m modern maid impeller machine i worked on yesterday.

but i did figure out how to clamp a d&m pump housing and motor to that g.e. tub base without having to drill holes in the tub. there is a lip on that tub opening that i can drill into with small holes from my dremel. that lip is about 3/8 inch wide and sets about 1/4 inch below the actual tub. so technically i could bolt that d&m pump housing to this lip without drilling a single hole in the tub itself. those bolts (probably 6) and good silicone would def seal that housing in.

but yes, i agree i will wait a good while before doing such a thing. i would rather get this motor running again and was wondering if i could buy a water seal from a supplier of seals. thanks for the tip there, i figured they were probably a stock item somewhere. i will look into this as soon as i get that damn impeller off. it is still soaking in pb blaster now. and i have read here on the site that motors can be rewound and new bearings installed so there is hope for this little pump yet!

thanks

Post# 353003 , Reply# 15   5/29/2009 at 10:57 (5,437 days old) by dishwashercrazy (West Peoria, IL)        
Nice effort Pete

 dishwashercrazy's profile picture
I know how frustrating Tub Seals can be on the G.E. dishwashers.

Thanks for showing all of the photos of your progress. It looks like a real headache to me.

I looked in my G.E. Parts Catalog Book for your Power Shower Model SM301D2. The original Parts page was dated April 1967. So I think your estimate of 1962 is a bit early.

Mike

Post# 353008 , Reply# 16   5/29/2009 at 11:02 (5,437 days old) by soberleaf ()        
thanks mike

 wow, 1967! the summer of love! it was the most life changing year for me as well! mom died that summer. maybe she brought this dishwsher to me! and the parts i just found for it today (seperate post).

thanks again

Post# 353018 , Reply# 17   5/29/2009 at 11:50 (5,437 days old) by jeff_adelphi (Adelphi, Maryland, USA)        
Stuck pump impeller

 jeff_adelphi's profile picture
The problem is that the steel motor shaft is rusted and locks the impeller on. This is why K.A. always used stainless steel shafts. I have serviced many of these in the past, and found the only way to get the impeller off is to break it. I always replaced both wash and drain impellers and the seal assembly. I may be able to find these impellers and the seal in some boxes of old stock I have, but it will take some time to find them. I will let you know if I have any luck. Jeff

Post# 353020 , Reply# 18   5/29/2009 at 11:59 (5,437 days old) by soberleaf ()        
thanks

 i appreciate it. i def could use a wash impeller. i have found the lower impeller and seal and even a motor but no top impeller. any parts you have i am interested in, you can e mail me dirctly at soberleaf@yahoo.com.

thanks

Post# 353752 , Reply# 19   5/31/2009 at 21:28 (5,435 days old) by soberleaf ()        
okay

i got it off, see new post for details!

Post# 353843 , Reply# 20   6/1/2009 at 11:12 (5,434 days old) by everythingold (Grand Rapids, Michigan)        

everythingold's profile picture
good job Pete, I haven't located an impeller, but you have many eyes looking for you! matt

Post# 354846 , Reply# 21   6/5/2009 at 12:47 (5,430 days old) by soberleaf ()        
IT LIVES!!!

 well after a trip to see larry at modern parts house in parma ohio i came back with a new motor, seal, lower impeller, spray arm, and pump housing for my g.e. mobile maid top loader. i installed it this morning and it works great!

noisy, badly designed in my book, set up for leakage problems i feel with all those screws and o rings and possible leak points, probably doesn't even wash that well but hey, it's a classic and it works great!

gonna run it for a few weeks then allow it to take it's place in my kitchen along with 4 other portables i have there.

who knows i may come to love it enough i may use it as a semi regular. just afraid that plastic coated tub will start to wear out with continued use.

thanks to robert for turning me on to larry in parma! and to matt "everythingold" for hooking me up with it! you are a matchmaker! i always wanted one!

Post# 354848 , Reply# 22   6/5/2009 at 12:49 (5,430 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        
Way to go!!

turquoisedude's profile picture
That is so nice to hear that a classic machine like this is functional once again!! Hope you have lots of fun with it!!

Post# 354854 , Reply# 23   6/5/2009 at 13:26 (5,430 days old) by dishwashercrazy (West Peoria, IL)        

dishwashercrazy's profile picture
Great to hear that your trip to Parma was a success and you have the dishwasher going again. You're right, another vintage machine saved and placed back in operation.

Post# 354878 , Reply# 24   6/5/2009 at 15:27 (5,430 days old) by soberleaf ()        
gonna run it thru it's cycles and

post some pics and cycle info on it here later this week.

just did a load, cleans great!

Post# 355360 , Reply# 25   6/7/2009 at 18:18 (5,428 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
;-)

 roto204's profile picture
just did a load, cleans great!

I'm keen to hear about this. This was almost the exact model my grandmother had (which gave way to a 1983 D&M Kenmore "with Power Miser"), and I love the boat-propeller wash impeller design. Funky--fun--but I wonder how much water it moves?

Plexiglas time! :-D (though it's tough to work around the PowerShower input)

Post# 355367 , Reply# 26   6/7/2009 at 18:49 (5,428 days old) by appnut (TX)        
though it's tough to work around the PowerShower input

 appnut's profile picture
Nate, We'll just let yo use that function to take a shoser in front of me he he he hehe. BobLoads!!!!

Post# 355406 , Reply# 27   6/7/2009 at 20:56 (5,428 days old) by soberleaf ()        
well it runs great!

 has 3 cycles, normal, china and pots/pans. pots cycle has these steps.

4 min rinse (or wash) with a 15 sec water purge during drain
2 min rinse with same purge during drain
9 min wash
2 min rinse
2 mine rinse
dry (didn't time it)

normal cycle omits the first 4 min rinse but all else the same

china is same as normal but with a shorter heated dry.

all in all it is not nearly as well built as any of my other machines. motor seems to grunt a bit to start and that's a new motor. and it is noisy as hell! but i love it!!!!!!

i was told by a friend on this site that it was not a super good cleaner but everything i washed came out fine. and the tub is plastic coated but so far no problems.

motor seems to run halfway cool, i have felt hotter motors but i am not going to strain this little dishwasher by putting my usual timer motor off/on switch on it to lengthen washes. i will keep it exactly as is and use it sparingly.

but again it's so little, so quaint, so 60's i just love it! and that big spray arm with those huge jets! i'm a sucker for huge jets (no, not really).

anyway it runs and doesn't leak a drop! oh yea, it seems to overfill a bit as it has no water float or measuring device.
but that's prob my fault as when i cleaned solonoid valve i took out flow restricter. i just turn faucet down a bit when i hook it up to sink.

Post# 355408 , Reply# 28   6/7/2009 at 21:00 (5,428 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here's some pics

 of thre new parts i put on it

first a new motor

Post# 355409 , Reply# 29   6/7/2009 at 21:01 (5,428 days old) by soberleaf ()        
and a new seal

 and drain impeller

Post# 355417 , Reply# 30   6/7/2009 at 21:06 (5,428 days old) by soberleaf ()        
i was able

 to reuse the old wash impeller. i did replace the o ring that seals it into the drain impeller/seal. the old o ring was very brittle and hard and i suspect it was responsible for the leakage.

i did save the old seal just in case i need it, doesn't look that bad at all. i saved the old motor too as it seemed to run fine after i cleaned it up. never know when i might find another mobile maid!


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