Thread Number: 22574
1967 G.E. MOBILE MAID PUMP IMPELLER IS OUT! PICS!
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Post# 353688   5/31/2009 at 20:09 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        

i got the shaft! off that is! i rigged up a pump impeller puller from wood and bolts and it did the trick. wanted to share pics in case anyone else has a similiar problem with a stuck impeller. here goes!

first off this is the motor off the mobile maid with the wash impeller very much stuck on the shaft.





Post# 353690 , Reply# 1   5/31/2009 at 20:13 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
first of all i had to

cut the white plastic pump guard strainer off with my dremel so i could see what the impeller looks like. i may be able to find a new strainer when i go to modern parts house in parma this week. if not oh well!

i then put impeller between 2 boards to support it. that's when i got the idea to build a pump impeller puller.


Post# 353699 , Reply# 2   5/31/2009 at 20:29 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
the impeller is shaped like a funnel

it has a small round base and fans out near the top, like an ice cream cone actually. i decided to mount it on a board with a hole in it to support and hold it without putting pressure on the impeller blades.

i was sure they would break under the pressure of pushing that shaft off.

so a trip down home depot's lumber and hardware aisle and 12 bucks later i was in business!

here is the board with the hole cut in it.


Post# 353700 , Reply# 3   5/31/2009 at 20:30 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
to get that impeller in that hole

i cut the board in half

Post# 353701 , Reply# 4   5/31/2009 at 20:32 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
the idea was

to assemble it around impeller shaft and then clamp it together using more boards, 1 by 3 lumber firing strips.

Post# 353702 , Reply# 5   5/31/2009 at 20:33 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
so

here it is

Post# 353703 , Reply# 6   5/31/2009 at 20:34 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here it is again

a nice tight fit! we like that!

Post# 353706 , Reply# 7   5/31/2009 at 20:36 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
next i started building the

impeller puller out of 5/16 threaded rod that i bought and cut into 12 inch sections. i used fender washers and nuts to anchor it down into it's little "impeller puller tower"

this was starting to be fun!


Post# 353707 , Reply# 8   5/31/2009 at 20:37 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another

view

Post# 353708 , Reply# 9   5/31/2009 at 20:38 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
the tower

rises!

Post# 353710 , Reply# 10   5/31/2009 at 20:44 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
next i put

2 firing strips on the top of the threaded rod to act as the "push" behind the impeller removal. i secured them with nuts and fender washers and drilled a 5/16 hole thru the center directly above the center of the motor shaft on the impeller.

you follow me here?

i soaked it all again in pb blaster

the idea is when i turn a nut on the center rod it will tighten up on the rod against the firing strips screwing the rod downward. the rod touches a bolt i screwed into the motor shaft. i did not use origional bolt that holds impeller on but bought a longer one.

as i continued to turn the nut the rod was screwed down and it literally pushed the shaft off the impeller which was tightly lodged in it's wooden cradle. yet the impeller blades were toughing nothing!

crude set up but it worked perfactly!


Post# 353712 , Reply# 11   5/31/2009 at 20:46 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another view

after impeller was lifted off shaft about 1/2 inch. i could feel it moving and it made a creaking sound with every turn of the nut! the wood was groaning a bit too! very interesting experience i must say!

Post# 353713 , Reply# 12   5/31/2009 at 20:47 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
and

another view. it's comin off!

Post# 353714 , Reply# 13   5/31/2009 at 20:50 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
almost

done here! i am excited. there are no more top impellers around i was told by larry in parma at modern parts house. if i break this impeller i'm screwed! if i don't break it the impeller is screwed! off the shaft, literally!

i wasn't the one that got screwed!


Post# 353716 , Reply# 14   5/31/2009 at 20:52 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
yeaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it's off. i took everything in to the sink and washed it all in good soapy water. the pump housing looks great, the impeller is fine, i will however replace the o ring along it's bottom that seals it against the lower drain impeller. the seals look good actually!

Post# 353717 , Reply# 15   5/31/2009 at 20:54 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here is the lower

drain pump housing. seal is pressed into it.

the drain impeller is in the background and is the other half of the seal. both look good actually, i wonder if that was where the leak was coming from?


Post# 353719 , Reply# 16   5/31/2009 at 20:54 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another

view

Post# 353721 , Reply# 17   5/31/2009 at 20:56 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here is the drain impeller

a bit beat up looking but actually it's just discolored. it's metal.

it will shine right up with a wire brush on the drill


Post# 353722 , Reply# 18   5/31/2009 at 20:57 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
the other side

showing water seal.

obviously i won't be taking a drill to this side!


Post# 353723 , Reply# 19   5/31/2009 at 20:58 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here is the wash pump housing

that spray arms mounts to.

it's in great shape.


Post# 353724 , Reply# 20   5/31/2009 at 20:59 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another view

very good condition for being 42 years old!

Post# 353726 , Reply# 21   5/31/2009 at 21:02 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
and here is that marvelous

spray arm that i remember from when i was a kid! i love those super big water jets! those are some major holes there! it's amazing it can pump enough water to supply those large holes and the tower shower!

actually i had a service tech friend i met on this site tell me they were not particularily great dishwashers and didn't really move that much water!


Post# 353727 , Reply# 22   5/31/2009 at 21:04 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
love that spray arm though

this used to intrigue me to no end when i was a kid!

God only knows why?!


Post# 353730 , Reply# 23   5/31/2009 at 21:04 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
and

another

Post# 353731 , Reply# 24   5/31/2009 at 21:05 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
look at those jets!

can't get enough!

Post# 353732 , Reply# 25   5/31/2009 at 21:07 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
back to the impeller

it's in great shape

Post# 353733 , Reply# 26   5/31/2009 at 21:08 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
well

pretty good shape, maybe not great but usable!

Post# 353734 , Reply# 27   5/31/2009 at 21:08 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another

view

Post# 353735 , Reply# 28   5/31/2009 at 21:09 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another view

again

Post# 353736 , Reply# 29   5/31/2009 at 21:09 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another

pic

Post# 353738 , Reply# 30   5/31/2009 at 21:10 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
one more

to bore you!

Post# 353740 , Reply# 31   5/31/2009 at 21:12 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
on to the motor

all in all not in as bad a shape as i thought. top bearing seems great, very smooth silent rotation.

shaft is rusted, that's why impeller was stuck, gonna use my wire brush and drill on it and clean it up good.


Post# 353742 , Reply# 32   5/31/2009 at 21:14 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
the bottom bearing

that looked like nightmare before

Post# 353743 , Reply# 33   5/31/2009 at 21:17 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
actually cleaned up pretty good

it's a sleeve bearing i was told by my service tech friend john. maybe that's better cause there was less to rust out from the leak.

going to clean it up with very fine steel wool and pack it full of grease. probably use wheel bearing grease.



Post# 353744 , Reply# 34   5/31/2009 at 21:19 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
the bottom of the motor shaft

is kinda roughed up but i can smooth it down using steel wool, wire brush on drill and sand paper.

i think if i pack bearing good it will actually run pretty smoothly. but i could be wrong here.


Post# 353746 , Reply# 35   5/31/2009 at 21:19 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another view

of this shaft

Post# 353747 , Reply# 36   5/31/2009 at 21:22 (5,436 days old) by tristarcxl ()        
Lower Bearing....

NEVER EVER USE GREASE IN A SLEEVE BEARING!!!!!!!

Got your attention?

Good! Go to your nearest hardware store and get some 3-in-1 MOTOR OIL. It comes in a blue bottle, and is SAE20 that is detergent free.

If you install grease, thin oil, or engine motor oil, kiss that motor goodbye forever! Anything other than detergent-free oil will destroy that bearing in very short order. Something like Zoom spout oil wont' work here either since you're dealing with heat and torque from the motor.

Use the right stuff and that bearing will last just about forever.....use the wrong stuff and it'll last about 5-10 minutes!


Post# 353750 , Reply# 37   5/31/2009 at 21:26 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
so

the impeller puller/pusher whatever worked and i thought i would share it with you all in case you need to get an impeller off a stuck motor shaft! especially if need to do it without breaking a defunct impeller that would be next to impossible to find.

but if anyone knows of one please let me know, i would buy it.

i am going to modern parts house in parma ohio this week to get parts for this machine and an impeller for my modern maid impeller drive dishwasher.

larry told me he has a new motor, seal and lower impeller. so i can use this top impeller with those new parts and my mobile maid will run like new again!

but before i put those new parts on i am going to reassemble this pump using this seal, impellers, and motor and see if i can get it to work without leaking! i have a hunch i can!

hope you enjoy!

thanks for letting me share!


Post# 353751 , Reply# 38   5/31/2009 at 21:27 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
p.s.

i just love this little dishwasher! it's so classic 60's!
1967 i was told!


Post# 353758 , Reply# 39   5/31/2009 at 21:43 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
gee

i have 3 in one oil that i have been using on all my dishwasher motors and a zoom spout that my friend matt gave me (he's everythingold) but i'll be honest i have packed bearings before with wheel bearing grease and never had a problem that i know of. i have also used 10/30 car oil to be honest but not lately.

so at least in the past year since i started collecting dishwashers in earnest i have always used 3 in one oil but for those motors i haven't, all i can say is hope they run awhile.

but i do appreciate the info as i have been asking the guys at home depot for ages what type oil to use on motors and never got a clear answer. your answer makes sense about the detergent free oil.

i am getting a new motor anyway but would like to try this one. i just wonder if 3 in one will be enough to pack that sleeve bearing since it is a bit worn and the shaft is a bit roughed up.

what is the problem with wheel bearing grease? is it due to additives in it? please inform me! also is there another heavier grease or oil besides 3 and one i can use in this case to add cushion to that worn bearing? thanks


Post# 353768 , Reply# 40   5/31/2009 at 22:12 (5,436 days old) by soberleaf ()        
just put the motor together again

filled lower bearing with 3 in one motor oil (as suggested above) and slapped it together. have not even worked on shaft with steel wool or sandpaper or wire brush and it turns very smoothly! i am amazed! gonna hook it up here and run it a second or two to see what it sounds like. will take it back apart to clean up shaft more when i get to store tomorrow to get the steel wool and sand paper.

i think this motor has some life in it yet


Post# 353783 , Reply# 41   12/31/2069 at 18:00 (19,832 days old) by tristarcxl ()        
Sleeve Bearings...

The type of lubrication in a sleeve bearing matters because of HOW it works.

The sleeve is made of a porous metal (usually Bronze or a bronze alloy). The way it works is that oil is soaked into the pores and creates a microscopic film of oil on the surface of the metal. As the bearing warms up, more oil flows out of the pores in the metal and thickens the layer of oil. During operation, the shaft doesn't actually touch the metallic bearing due to the layer of oil. If kept lubricated properly, the bearing will literally last forever. Most larger motors (think thousands of horsepower) use exclusively sleeve bearings due to the longevity. They actually bathe the entire bearing house in a pool of oil! Some bearings have been around for over a century and are still in operation. Most hydroelectric dams in the northeast have GE gensets which are still running in their original condition with bronze bearings. Those have been turning daily for over 100 years..... I have a Hoover 105 vacuum in my collection from 1919 that's got bronze bearings and still runs like the day it was new! It's been cleaning houses for 90 years!

The problem with grease is that it clogs the pores of the bronze. As soon as the grease gets hot, it becomes a nasty sludgy mess that glazes the bronze. When/if that happens, the bearing is ruined permanently. After the glaze forms, the bearing is no longer lubricated. The shaft will rub on the metal and well.....that's the end of it!

Engine oil is even worse. It contains detergents that are designed to remove impurities and "clean" corrosion or deposits from inside an engine. In the engine, that's what you want it to do! However, when the detergents are in a bronze bearing, they react with the bronze filings that are inherent in the design of the bearing. They in turn actually eat the bronze and turn it into a swiss-cheese like substance. If you've ever used engine oil in a sleeve bearing, pull the shaft out and look what's on it. It'll have a dark black tar-like substance on it. That's the nasty gunk that's come out of the bearing. If you ever use car engine oil in a bronze bearing, you CAN save it if it hasn't been operated for a long time. Soak it in turpentine and get all the traces out of it, then wash it out with Acetone. Soak the whole thing (we're talking FLOOD) with detergent-free oil and let it sit over night. The oil will soak in the bearing and you'll be good to go!

A bearing that's had grease packed in it though is history, never to be saved. If it hasn't been run, you can save it by using the solvent method above, but if the shaft has turned for any time at all, that bearing's days are numbered....


Post# 353821 , Reply# 42   6/1/2009 at 08:17 (5,435 days old) by soberleaf ()        
thanks

so the best thing for a sleeve bearing is to simnply give it a good dose of 3 in one motor oil?

that's what i did i this one.


Post# 353836 , Reply# 43   6/1/2009 at 09:37 (5,435 days old) by tristarcxl ()        

Bingo.

Post# 353838 , Reply# 44   6/1/2009 at 10:03 (5,435 days old) by dnastrau (Lords Valley, PA)        
Lesson on sleeve bearings - thanks!

Thanks for the lesson on sleeve bearings tristarcxl - I appreciate it! I have, in the past, used both grease and car motor oil on sleeve bearings on a couple of motors that were on their last legs. I won't be doing that again!

Andrew S.


Post# 353847 , Reply# 45   6/1/2009 at 11:35 (5,435 days old) by soberleaf ()        
packed that little motor

with 3 in one motor oil (blue can) last nite and started it up, purrs like a kitten! guess water leakage did not hurt it after all. still picking up a new motor tomorrow when i go to parma to see larry.

really appreciate the definative answer on what to oil with, it will be 3 in one motor oil all the way! the best lube around!



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