Restoration: The 1974 Frigidaire Imperial


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Thread Number: 22692
Restoration: The 1974 Frigidaire Imperial

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Post# 355319 6/7/2009 at 17:08 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes To be filed in the category of "projects I thought would be simple." Come with me on a journey of deteriorating product quality! Pete, some of this may be useful for your Dishmobile, but I notice some differences in the mechanism. So, to begin, there are some spots in the Plastisol that need addressing, due to rust issues.

Post# 355321 , Reply# 1 6/7/2009 at 17:09 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *The top* The door doesn't latch properly, and when I look more closely, we can see why. First, the bubble of rust has caused the door to have a tough time latching. We'll need to take a utility knife and remove the Plastisol that does not adhere tightly to the metal. It's easy to see what you have to remediate--if it's loose, it must come off!

Post# 355322 , Reply# 2 6/7/2009 at 17:11 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *More rust abatement* Ick. The damage clearly extends beyond the door gasket, so we'll have to go further. No sense in going to all this effort to only half-butt the job :-)

Post# 355323 , Reply# 3 6/7/2009 at 17:12 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *The door gasket* The door gasket is a full square--top, sides, and bottom--and is held in with thin metal strips to compress it to the tank. Happily the strips and screws are one of the places (besides the wash impeller) where GM invested in stainless steel. Removal involves removing the screws...

Post# 355324 , Reply# 4 6/7/2009 at 17:12 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *More door gasket* ...then flexing the metal strips with your fingers back-and-forth to loosen them gently from the gasket material.

Post# 355325 , Reply# 5 6/7/2009 at 17:13 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Still more door gasket...* After that, you can (very gently) pull the gasket material away from the tank.

Post# 355326 , Reply# 6 6/7/2009 at 17:15 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *After that...* ...we take a second look at the rust spot on top. And all I can say is, "oy!" The bubble of rust isn't the only issue. It's the distortion in the attachment point for the latch arm that's causing more trouble. Don't adjust your glasses or think that it's a Dal� filter in Photoshop--it's for real.

Post# 355327 , Reply# 7 6/7/2009 at 17:16 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *So...* It must come apart, too. Sigh. :-) Some of this experience must explain the rust spots behind the C pillars on my 1988 Oldsmobile.

Post# 355328 , Reply# 8 6/7/2009 at 17:17 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Next...* Let's look at a tiny bubble on the bottom-right of the door. I wonder what lies beneath?

Post# 355330 , Reply# 9 6/7/2009 at 17:18 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Oh!* Nice. I'm impressed at how extensive this is. I'll likely have to repair it on both sides of the door...and the missing metal means we'll need to call-in some JB Weld to help "make" new material where none now exists :-)

Post# 355332 , Reply# 10 6/7/2009 at 17:20 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Onward...* Now for the sump. Getting at this means removing the wash-arm assembly. To do so, first we remove the bellows (held on with two Philips screws), and lift it off. This exposes the nut and three shims (plus a Teflonesque bearing) that supports the wash-arm on the diffuser/arm-support assembly. Notice the rust around the sump. Doesn't look that bad, does it? Wait. ;-)

Post# 355337 , Reply# 11 6/7/2009 at 17:35 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Pump assembly* We remove the nut, shims, and bearing, and lift out the arm.

Post# 355338 , Reply# 12 6/7/2009 at 17:36 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *The bellows up close* Two little Philips screws hold the bellows onto the wash-arm. Wow!

Post# 355339 , Reply# 13 6/7/2009 at 17:37 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Next, the support* Now, we remove the wash-arm support/diffuser assembly. Three screws (slotted) hold it in, and with it comes the primary strainer assembly:

Post# 355341 , Reply# 14 6/7/2009 at 17:39 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Then...* We remove the wash impeller and plastic hub beneath it. The impeller is stainless steel, as is the left-hand-thread bolt that holds it in (thank God).

Post# 355342 , Reply# 15 6/7/2009 at 17:40 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Then...* ...we can remove the drain strainer and drain plate and expose the drain impeller:

Post# 355343 , Reply# 16 6/7/2009 at 17:41 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Drain plate* ...two screws off on one side hold this down.

Post# 355344 , Reply# 17 6/7/2009 at 17:41 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *...and then...* ...we get to see the drain impeller, which lifts off:

Post# 355345 , Reply# 18 6/7/2009 at 17:42 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *...finally exposing...* ...the carbon-porcelain seal. This is about as much as we can do top-side. Now it's time to go underneath the machine.

Post# 355346 , Reply# 19 6/7/2009 at 17:44 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *From down under...* It looks like water's gotten down here. And, in GM's infinite wisdom from car assembly lines, look what holds the whole mechanism to the tub--speed nuts!

Post# 355349 , Reply# 20 6/7/2009 at 17:51 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Let's see...* Removing all the speed-nuts and such won't allow the mechanism to budge. After much hammer-striking, it's still not going anywhere. The rust in the sump has so compressed the seal in the bottom that it's wrapped up-and-over the plastic of the mechanism mount. Who made this, Kenmore? ;-) I cut away the seal and ring of rust, to discover that the rust is a smidge worse than I'd thought. The white speck in the middle of the rusted area is daylight:

Post# 355351 , Reply# 21 6/7/2009 at 17:54 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *So now...* I've transitioned into Phase II of the restoration process, which is to: - drink beer - contemplate how much I love porcelainized appliances - contemplate how the hell I'm going to get this thing loose ...which is pretty much where it's at. I'm loathe to stick PB Blaster in there, because I've had Bakelite items split in the past wherever it's contacted the plastic, and that would suck hugely. But I don't want to bludgeon it to death with a hammer (okay, actually I do, at this point), and risk breaking it. I'd appreciate any suggestions you might have--maybe heat the mechanism mount? This Plastisol thing is for the birds :-) Thanks for all your help in advance, and I'll look forward to keeping you posted when the restoration enters Phase III--the "actually do something now" phase :-) Pete, does this help you with your parts breakdown at all? Nate

Post# 355355 , Reply# 22 6/7/2009 at 18:09 (5,433 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)
Checkrate/Likes *Platisol is for the birds,* It destroyed my 1970 BMW 2002. One small nick and boom the water gets in underneath and spreads behind the plastisol. The plastisol HOLDS the water to the exposed steel and actually encourages rust because it never lets it dry out either!

Post# 355359 , Reply# 23 6/7/2009 at 18:14 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Truly...* ...a miracle substance! :-

Post# 355371 , Reply# 24 6/7/2009 at 19:15 (5,433 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)
Checkrate/Likes *Arrgh!* I heartily concur about Plastisol. I've had a couple of '70s-era G.E. dishwashers with that damn Perma-Tuf interior. Nothing but trouble. One little breach in the coating, or one little place where water worked its way into the edge between Plastisol and the metal underneath, and it was all downhill from there. Appliance parts stores used to sell "repair kits" for those liners; the kits were basically a two-part epoxy tinted green or blue, depending on the colour of your dishwasher's liner. They never quite matched the colour, and never provided a smooth-looking repair. You ended up with this scrofulous-looking spot, and the rust started up again very soon after the so-called "fix."

Post# 355380 , Reply# 25 6/7/2009 at 19:50 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Yeah* We're going to keep it real in Phase III (the post-beer phase) when I show you my way for resealing and color-matching :-)

Post# 355393 , Reply# 26 6/7/2009 at 20:19 (5,433 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Oh, I almost forgot--* Pete, here are the locating pins and holes for the drain strainer:

Post# 355398 , Reply# 27 6/7/2009 at 20:35 (5,433 days old) by soberleaf ()
Checkrate/Likes *great pics and info!* love the pics and info on your restoration. sorry to see you are having such tub issues. wonder why some deteriorate and others don't? my machine is from the 60's and the tub is fine. but my impeller hub is stuck like hell! surely there is something you can put on that pastisol to repair it. someone here will know! as far as the pump goes, yes it helps me tremendously! i don't have the bellows on mine but the pump is the same. after you take off the stainless impeller blade how did you get the hub off, that's what is stuck on mine! and once that hub is off and the drain impeller strainer off and the drain impeller exposed, mine will be metal, your's looks plastic. which means mine will be frozen to the motor shaft. i will prob have to cut it off with a dremel. you are lucky in that aspect. the new drain impeller seal kit i bought while in parma at modern parts is also metal! bummer! i was hponing for a plastic drain impeller as a replacement. metal to metal is not good on a dishwasher shaft! i did find a impeller hub on the web at a parts place and will order it tomorrow in case i have to cut the hub off mine to get it out of there. they are 16 bucks fyi. your pics help me quite abit, again my main question, why did your hub remove so easily and mine is stuck tight, other than my machine is from around 1966 and i believe you said your's was 1974? that would explain your wash implerer being plastic, they got smart! as far as the pump sump being stuck to your tub, that baffles me. mine lifted right out! it's only held in by a rubber gasket? thanks for the tip on the pb blaster too, i have been using it like water lately! i will be more conservative! good luck with it, keep me posted! i am very interested in how you repair that tub and how you get the pump out.

Post# 355403 , Reply# 28 6/7/2009 at 20:44 (5,433 days old) by soberleaf ()
Checkrate/Likes *another question please!* i forgot, the impeller "hub" sets on top of the drain impeller but what keeps water from seeping between it and the drain impeller and running down the motor shaft inside the seal!?? my frigidaire repair manual is not very precise but it does mention an o ring between the drain impeller and hub. somehow there has to be a waterproof seal between these two parts. i know the top screw that holds the stainless impeller blade on has a small gasket to keep water from seeping down onto the shaft at the top. it's kinda like a flat o ring of sorts. but you didn't mention any type of seal between the thub and drain impeller so i thought i'd ask. thanks

Post# 355411 , Reply# 29 6/7/2009 at 21:01 (5,433 days old) by animasinsulinpu ()
Checkrate/Likes *I have..* I have that same dishwasher!!! Love it. And it heats the water very fast.Top rack is a little strange though. Isn't there a soft-food disposer in it?.....Bill in Az....

Post# 355419 , Reply# 30 6/7/2009 at 21:07 (5,433 days old) by soberleaf ()
Checkrate/Likes *not in the 2* dishmobiles i have. no soft food disposer at all! it isn't mentioned in my repair manual either but maybe they added it to later models.

Post# 355550 , Reply# 31 6/8/2009 at 09:51 (5,432 days old) by soberleaf ()
Checkrate/Likes *i found some interesting info* in my parts manuals i dug up for frigidaire. this pertains to model numbers. i have a dwcdtr and a dwcdmr. frigidaire said the dw refered to dishwasher (obviously) and the cd would be custom deluxe. i would be imperial, ci would be custom imperial etc. m is for mobile u is for undercounter t is for top loader sd is for standard door kit fk is for framing kit and the last letter refers to the year it was made. they list l n p r and t. they said p was 1969 and t was 1972 so dwcdtr would mean custom deluxe, top loader r series. if p is 1969 and t is 1972 i am guessing r is 1970 or 1971. dwcdmr would mean custom deluxe mobile (front loader i would guess) of the same period, circa 1971. don't know if this helps anyone but i thought it was intersting trivia out of the frigidaire service tech manual.

Post# 355706 , Reply# 32 6/9/2009 at 00:13 (5,432 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Hey Pete* Everything--the drain impeller, shims, hub--rides free on the motor shaft. The only things affixed are the wash impeller at the top and the seal at the bottom. The wash impeller basically tightens down and sandwiches it all together. That hub underneath the wash impeller should just slide out--mine did, even with rust on the motor shaft :-

Post# 355707 , Reply# 33 6/9/2009 at 00:13 (5,432 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *And...* ...my wash impeller is metal like yours, I just didn't show it :-)

Post# 355748 , Reply# 34 6/9/2009 at 09:08 (5,431 days old) by soberleaf ()
Checkrate/Likes *i'm working on a* puller today to get that hub off. mine is def stuck. did find a replacement if i happen to break this one. my new seal kit comes with all the shims and even the o ring to seal between drain impeller and hub. now, thanks to your info and pics and some info i found in my repair manuals for frigidaire i know what to do! should be an easy fix het did find a new pump plate (lower pump housing) on e bay last nite for 30 bucks. did not buy it yet but might if no one else wants it. also found seal kits for d&m machines for about 6 bucks! including shipping. i have 3 d&m machines so i bought 3 of em! e bay is great for parts! good luck oh yea, just bought a frigidaire 1-18 washer off craigs list for 30 bucks! pick it up tonite!

Post# 355750 , Reply# 35 6/9/2009 at 09:13 (5,431 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)
Checkrate/Likes *GM's infinite wisdom from car assembly lines* Oh gawd, the bain of my existence - speed nuts! Run for the hills! ;-) Seriously though, Nate, I doubt there is enough booze on the face of the earth to justify working on this dishwasher - hehe Ben

Post# 355835 , Reply# 36 6/9/2009 at 16:15 (5,431 days old) by soberleaf ()
Checkrate/Likes *got the hub off okay* and everything else. cleaned up motor, it runs good! about to start putting it all back together. i have a bit of rust around the perimeter of my sump also, want to coat it with some type of paint before putting pump plate back in. any suggestions? thanks

Post# 355870 , Reply# 37 6/9/2009 at 20:47 (5,431 days old) by everythingold (Grand Rapids, Michigan)
Checkrate/Likes *amazing work and cooperation.* Kudos. don't listen to nay-sayers. matt

Post# 355896 , Reply# 38 6/9/2009 at 22:01 (5,431 days old) by soberleaf ()
Checkrate/Likes *when it comes to my dishwashers* i always find a way to "tame" them! with a little help from my friends as Ringo used to sing!

Post# 356383 , Reply# 39 6/11/2009 at 22:20 (5,429 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Fierce* I think this dishwasher will be worth the effort :-) Pete, congrats on getting that apart, and I can't wait to hear about the 1-18! I'm wondering about POR-15 for this, but I doubt it can withstand the heat and detergent. I'm opting for JB Weld, a lot of sanding, RTV silicone, and prayer :-) Ben--it's totally worth it! You should hear this thing run. It must generate tremendous pressure--the din is like pressure-washing a barn covered in galvanized sheet metal. Greg said it scored better than the Hotpoint (as does a garden hose) and below a KitchenAid (as does everything) in the Consumer Reports ratings, so... ;-)

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