Thread Number: 23380
Plastic washer paddles in drums.. WHY?
[Down to Last]

automaticwasher.org's exclusive eBay Watch:
scroll >>> for more items --- [As an eBay Partner, eBay may compensate automaticwasher.org if you make a purchase using any link to eBay on this page]
Post# 364439   7/16/2009 at 07:14 (5,368 days old) by robliverpool (england Liverpool)        

robliverpool's profile picture
Does anyone know why nearly all machines now have plastic paddles in the drum as i personally find them a pain, i seem to go thru new paddles in my hotpoint every year or so...

Is it because the companies know they are going to break, hence the need to spend on new ones or can they not make the shape they desire when they press the drums etc...

any info would be great as its been doing my head in again today i have had to buy another paddle at £14 a go





Post# 364440 , Reply# 1   7/16/2009 at 07:15 (5,368 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        

ronhic's profile picture
Neither of our Zanussi based machines have ever had a problem...

Post# 364471 , Reply# 2   7/16/2009 at 08:19 (5,368 days old) by favorit ()        
it's cheaper to insert plastic paddles...

rather than working on stainless steel.

Only all the Miele and some Bosch/siemens and some Indesit/Ariston have SS paddles

once i read a review on ciao.it about a TOL Lavamat that missed a paddle and tore all the load into small stripes :-((


Post# 364485 , Reply# 3   7/16/2009 at 08:48 (5,368 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
it's cheaper to insert plastic paddles...

not only cheaper, but it also makes possible to use different designs to enhance the wash quality.


I've never heard about an Electrolux machine with a broken paddle.

And even if it happen and you have a missing paddle, the drum won't damage the clothes because there will be only a few more series or holes. Nothing too serious.


Don't know about the other manufacturers.


Post# 364489 , Reply# 4   7/16/2009 at 08:54 (5,368 days old) by favorit ()        
ex-Wascator E'luxes

so Thomas, why the ex-Wascator E'luxes don't have plastic baffles ?? ;-))

Post# 364496 , Reply# 5   7/16/2009 at 09:15 (5,368 days old) by mr_sparkle ()        
Never had one!

I have never, ever had a paddel break and I wash some pretty hard stuff, like tons of jeans, my trainers, various shoes etc

Ive never heard of any of my friends with then broken either?



Post# 364526 , Reply# 6   7/16/2009 at 10:28 (5,368 days old) by electron800 ()        
Never had a problem with them here either

My mum's boss had an early WMA Hotpoint where the paddles kept breaking off but I've heard that was a design fault on those particular machines.

I wash shoes and all sorts in many machines with plastic paddles and have never had a single problem.

Matt


Post# 364574 , Reply# 7   7/16/2009 at 13:24 (5,368 days old) by robliverpool (england Liverpool)        
hi matt

robliverpool's profile picture
yup sounds like my machine, mine is an early WMA 30, never had anything go on the machine even tho its doing in excess of 4 loads a day, just the paddles. I have had it a few years now and i am thinking of an upgrade. been looking around for miele commercial washer that can be converted to 240v...

its getting harder to get the paddles for my machine as my machine they changed the drum desin for the paddles and the normal ones dont fit proper, the normal ones just have six little sliders that lock into place, mine has them plus two little prongs that also have to lock in, nightmare...


thanks guys for the advice


Post# 364631 , Reply# 8   7/16/2009 at 18:07 (5,368 days old) by arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)        

I have had a Hootag (Hoover front loader badged as Maytag) for five years and never had a problem with plastic paddles.

What would you have to do to go through so many plastic paddles?

Really I cant see why plastic paddles should be a problem, after all top loaders have plastic agitators and they seem to be fine.


Post# 364837 , Reply# 9   7/17/2009 at 11:55 (5,367 days old) by robliverpool (england Liverpool)        
arrroooohh

robliverpool's profile picture
As mentioned by matt there must of been a problem with the design, i know loads of other people who have no problems with plastic paddles it just seems to be me lol might even be coz i do a lot of 90 degree wash loads at least one a day the rest being 60 or 50 so maybe that is weakining the platic i dunno, next one is gonna all in one

Post# 364849 , Reply# 10   7/17/2009 at 13:06 (5,367 days old) by rolls_rapide (.)        
Hotpoint UK...

Did have some kind of design flaw in their paddles - I've seen other people ask advice on www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk... about dislodged and broken paddles. Probably something to do with the 'much cheapness' that Indesit introduced.

Never seen a problem in UK Hoovers that my mother and granny owned, or the Zanussis that I, my grandfather, or a friend have owned.


Post# 364868 , Reply# 11   7/17/2009 at 13:38 (5,367 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
Favorit

I have no idea.

Maybe because of the drum capacity (consequentially the need of a too long paddle that could not resist)

Or maybe because of some chemicals used on commercial laundries that can damage plastics.

or even "why spend money in a new mould if the already have this one that works ok?"

or... the most plausible: "The engineers just did it because they wanted to."


The little time I spent in Sweden freezing (i mean, working on wascator projects) was to help them with tips about the Clarus, Selecta and Exacta controls and a card reader that after many hours making something very beautiful, the engineers decided it was too fancy and used a square box. (as you can see, I hate engineers)


Post# 364896 , Reply# 12   7/17/2009 at 15:43 (5,367 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
The only machines i hear of havin knackered paddles are indesit and servis machines. Need i say more.

I've NEVER heard of zanussi paddles coming off, or bosch ones from the WFFseries like i had. WMA/WF hotpoints are renowed for it as has already been discussed. Ties in with indesits obv...

Darren


Post# 364907 , Reply# 13   7/17/2009 at 16:05 (5,367 days old) by favorit ()        
Thomas

Why doesn't E'lux sell the 5.5 - 7 - 10 kg Wascators as TOL household machines ??
If they sold them with historically "sturdy" badges (I'm thinkin' of AEG in EU and Frigidaire in US) they could compete with Mieles.

Ok, I know the 10kg machines maybe costs as five or six Duets ... but a MOL 6.5 kg miele little giant costs 2500 € ... and miele isn't as big as e'lux ....

The only (semi) commercial machine having plastic paddles is ... a Whirlpool ! It's the MAXY 100, a 10kg washer. It is said to have a stronger build than the Duet/Dreamspace and to be able to withstand 100kg of laundry per week... but 100/10 = 10 loads per week, less than 2 loads per day on a commercial machine ?!? Now I understand why it has plastic baffles, by the way it costs about 1000/1100 € only



Post# 364954 , Reply# 14   7/17/2009 at 18:33 (5,367 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
IIRC,

launderess's profile picture
An American company or person purchased the rights for selling "Wascomat" appliances ages ago. Apparently the man saw how well built the units were and that the design was far better than the standard top loading washing machines then in use in laundromats, including being able to withstand the abuse such machines must take.

All Wascomat washing machines sold in the United States require 220v power. Though some if not all can have steam heat lines attached, the motors are what require 220v. Also do not think Wascomat is interested in "diluting" their brand by going into the domestic laundry appliance market. It would require major costs to set up and service such a market, and not sure how many Americans would pay the several thousands even the cheapest Wascomat unit costs.

Being as all this may, there are homes with Wascomat units, especially the soft mount models. One can find them easy enough on eBay and commercial laundry machine resellers. Long as one has the proper plumbing and power (not to mention a strong and solid floor), not much else is required.

L.


Post# 365106 , Reply# 15   7/18/2009 at 07:32 (5,366 days old) by favorit ()        
Electrolux, thinkin' of .... the whole world ;-)

Launderess, i'm not thinking of US market only :-)

This W455H is the E'lux version of Little Giants (so a euro sized washer). And it is a real tank

The point is : E'lux covers all world markets. Miele does it too, despite it is a smaller co than elux.
My guess is that Miele hosuehold machines are so strong cause they share many components with the commercial ones. They are rather expensive, yet their market is ever growing.
So why doesn't elux use wascator resources to produce TOL models ?
If they keep on producing cheaper and cheaper household aappliances they 'll get worse than whirlpool ...


CLICK HERE TO GO TO favorit's LINK


Post# 365197 , Reply# 16   7/18/2009 at 16:40 (5,366 days old) by hotpoint9534 (UK)        
Electrolux TOL models

The alternative would be to use the 1980s Zanussi solid tub again for TOL models, I'm sure it could be adapted for a larger 6kg drum. The design even looks sleek and modern to this day!
The bearings are much easier to change too, no splitting of the tub, just a cast iron cross piece to remove from the back.


Post# 365204 , Reply# 17   7/18/2009 at 17:29 (5,366 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Miele's Domestic Washing Machine

launderess's profile picture
Quality is a reflection of what the brand stands for, and indeed what most TOL German laundry appliances stand. While nothing an the Amercian market compares for household use, that is simply because on this side of the pond the market concentrated mainly if not wholly on top loading washing machines. That is where R&D went and for the part where appliance makers put all their efforts. Why? Because consumers demanded (well at back then), value for money.

Wascomat had a long tradition in Sweden for quality washing machines for domestic use as well, but you aren't going to see near or commercial grade units from Electrolux in the US or elsewhere for along time if ever? Why? Cost.

Even Miele has begun "dumbing" down (if that is the right word), domestic washing machines sold not only in North America, but elsewhere as well. Look at the price difference between even an entry level commercial washing machine from Miele or Wascomat, and a TOL domestic unit. Consumers just aren't willing to spend upwards of 2,000 USD or more, for "just a washing" machine. We see more of this as laundry appliances as with most other major appliances become more a throw away consumer good than a durable item designed to last ten or more years.

L.


Post# 365207 , Reply# 18   7/18/2009 at 17:39 (5,366 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        
Am I dreaming again or....

ronhic's profile picture
....isn't the base model Wascomat from the link above just a rebadged ASKO?

...and if so, well that pretty much answers the question of 'commercial quality for domestic use'

On another note. When we bought an ASEA Cylinda 12000 in 1989 it was an expensive machine (AUD$1300)...no issue there, but the sales man described ASEA and Miele as follows from a quality and reliablity point of view...

ASEA is basically a 'beefed up' domestic machine...
Miele is essentially a slightly lightened commercial machine.

Given we had 19yrs from the ASEA, I have no reason to question his 'logic'. I hope people who bought Miele in 1989 have had the same run.



Post# 365210 , Reply# 19   7/18/2009 at 18:09 (5,366 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Commercial laundry applications wouldn't put up with much of what has been on offer in the US front loader market for a moment. Bearings that give in routinely, parts in units that cannot be repaired, or require entire sections to be replaced, and so forth.

One can find Wascomat and indeed many commercial front loaders that are decades old, still running. Yes, they may have been repaired and or even torn down and rebuilt, but that is what they were designed for. It is even possible to do major repairs on older Miele units, such as changing motors, bearings et al, just at least on this side of the pond MieleUSA won't recommend it via their service techs. OTHO in places such as Germany and elsewhere where there is a good DIY market, one can purchase Miele parts off the shelf so to speak, and do the job oneself. Providing one has a way to hoist the innards out of a Miele, swapping the bearings, replacing the motor and such is not that hard.

L.


Post# 365222 , Reply# 20   7/18/2009 at 20:02 (5,366 days old) by hotpointwf220 ()        

Rob my WF220 went through 6 new set of paddles since we owned it and they all kept sliding off and shreading my clothes.

My ultima (which is awaiting repairman to refit the pcb again has same paddles which are still fine but for how long lol i dunno.




Post# 365286 , Reply# 21   7/19/2009 at 00:59 (5,366 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
Favorit

take the panels off the wascator and the wavetouch....

you might have a good surprise...

some parts ARE the same. other parts are even better on the household version, like the spiders. That's because commercially the products are precisely dosed to reduce costs and at home, most people use much more products than the necesary because the manufaturers always include directions that make you sepend much more and obviously buy more.


more than that simmilarity is impossible (even if they want) because someone did the stupidity to sell the rights to wascomat.
That's also why there will be a Wavetouch washer-dryer combo that dries by exaust instead of condensation in Brazil and it won't be available in the US.


Post# 365348 , Reply# 22   7/19/2009 at 09:52 (5,365 days old) by favorit ()        
another rebadged ASKOs

Chris, here is another rebadged ASKO....
It's from Grandimpianti, an italian laundry machinery producer


CLICK HERE TO GO TO favorit's LINK


Post# 365352 , Reply# 23   7/19/2009 at 09:58 (5,365 days old) by favorit ()        
Zanussi cylinder from the eighties

Tom you're true : those drums were far better than those on current fake AEGs (that look like tin cans).

Does anyone know where current AEGs are made ? They share may components with Zanussies but don't guess they are made in Italy


Post# 365355 , Reply# 24   7/19/2009 at 10:13 (5,365 days old) by favorit ()        
Thanks Thomas

You're true, selling wascator rights hasn't been the best move

For what i know the wavetouch aren't sold on euro markets

BUT e'lux is about to sell a euro version of the AFFINITY (here is badged REX-Electrolux RWFB11410W )
What about it ?


CLICK HERE TO GO TO favorit's LINK


Post# 365360 , Reply# 25   7/19/2009 at 11:11 (5,365 days old) by mielabor ()        

Asko has plastic ribs. One of them can be removed to reveal an opening in the inner drum that can be used for removing objects that have accidentally landed in the outer drum.

Never had any problems with plastic ribs nor that I have heard of someone else having problems with these.


Post# 365369 , Reply# 26   7/19/2009 at 12:07 (5,365 days old) by bertrum ()        
Plastic washer paddles in drums.. WHY?

Cost simple.

Post# 365591 , Reply# 27   7/20/2009 at 03:31 (5,365 days old) by favorit ()        
ASKO door mounted directly on the outer tub

Just like in commercial machines (either soft mount or hard mount).
The flat glass does't trap socks or any other smsll item
It's a pity ASKO is the last household one to have it

In past time I remember vintage drop-down AEG Lavamats, the Constructa K4 (.. ok, this was an hard mount household appliance, it needed to be bolted to the floor or to a cast iron pedestal, this wasn't very pratical, but was one of the funniest FL i've ever watched while washing)


Post# 365624 , Reply# 28   7/20/2009 at 09:14 (5,364 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
NOT always!!!!

Bertrum said: "Plastic washer paddles in drums.. WHY?
Cost simple."


Not always!!!!

Most of the times is more expensive making a plastic paddle (mould + the injector + the plastic + the screws that keeps them in place + the worker to install them in the drums) than a simple 6 or 8 ton mould that can make the drum AND the paddles on the same hit.



Post# 365704 , Reply# 29   7/20/2009 at 16:30 (5,364 days old) by hoovermad (England)        

AEG machines are now made in Poland. There was big hoo har and industrial action couple years ago when AEG announced they were shutting the German factories.
Left AEG right up s##t creek for quite a while until new Polish factories cam online


Post# 365732 , Reply# 30   7/20/2009 at 18:11 (5,364 days old) by favorit ()        
thanks Hoovermad, so i guess

even the Time Manager series are made there, aren't they ?


Forum Index:       Other Forums:                      



Comes to the Rescue!

The Discuss-o-Mat has stopped, buzzer is sounding!!!
If you would like to reply to this thread please log-in...

Discuss-O-MAT Log-In



New Members
Click Here To Sign Up.



                     


automaticwasher.org home
Discuss-o-Mat Forums
Vintage Brochures, Service and Owners Manuals
Fun Vintage Washer Ephemera
See It Wash!
Video Downloads
Audio Downloads
Picture of the Day
Patent of the Day
Photos of our Collections
The Old Aberdeen Farm
Vintage Service Manuals
Vintage washer/dryer/dishwasher to sell?
Technical/service questions?
Looking for Parts?
Website related questions?
Digital Millennium Copyright Act Policy
Our Privacy Policy