Thread Number: 23840
ROLLERMATIC TEAR DOWN! BALL SUPPORT OFF! SUCCESS! PICS! 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 371055   8/10/2009 at 21:53 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        

continuing on here i am in the process of completely tearing down that beautiful 1965 custom imperial rollermatic that i got from my friend walt in middleport, new york (buffalo area) and dropped off my truck on the way home!

i had gotten the top agitator nut off but could not get the second nut loose from the agitator shaft. this nut holds the bottom cone and must be removed to get to the bellows and hub nut.

i was trying to loosen the ball support from the agitator shaft with no luck. i took advice given to me on this site from an earlier post and tonite i just got it! here are the pics and how i did it! i am excited!

the stuck nut!




Post# 371057 , Reply# 1   8/10/2009 at 21:55 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
i bought a new heavy duty pair

 of vice grips at work tonite and a standard hose clamp

Post# 371058 , Reply# 2   8/10/2009 at 21:57 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
it was suggested to me

 on a previous post that i attach a hose clamp to the rubber ball support to make it more "grippable" (is that a word?) with a channel lock pliers or pipe wrench.

Post# 371059 , Reply# 3   8/10/2009 at 21:59 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here is a pic

 of the ball support with it's hose clamp tightened around it and the vice grips firmly gripping the agitator shaft

Post# 371060 , Reply# 4   8/10/2009 at 22:03 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
some of the rollermatics i have aquired lately are rapid dry

 and some aren't. the one's that are rapid dry have a different spin wheel set up than those that are not rapidry.

here is a pic of the rapidry spin wheel that i am involved with in this tear down.

it has two wheels in one, the small diam wheel on top of the larger wheel. what this equates to is there is much less room to grab the agitator shaft than on a non rapidry machine. you don't have as much room to work with.

Post# 371062 , Reply# 5   8/10/2009 at 22:07 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here's a pic of the

custom deluxe model that i got from matt (everythingold) in grand rapids that i use all the time! it is non rapidry and it has only one spin wheel so note the additional space between the agitator arm and the spin wheel. it's about 2 inches of room compared to about 3/4 inch on the rapidry models.

left side of pic

Post# 371065 , Reply# 6   8/10/2009 at 22:14 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another pic

 of it

much better pic actually, you can see how much room you have to work. i was concerned that i would not be able to get my vice grips on that agitate shaft on my rapidry model but when you rotate the agitate arm wheel to the bottom of it's stroke there is about 3/4 inch to work in, as mentioned above.

this pic shows that ball support well, same one on all my 1965 models. my later models have the metal acorn looking support like my 1-18 has and it was easily gripped and loosened. these rubber ball supports are much harder to grab.

my rollermatic repair manual i downloaded off this site (thanks robert for this great site) listed a special pair of ball support pliers but i am sure they are hard to find these days!

so a hose clamp it is!

Post# 371067 , Reply# 7   8/10/2009 at 22:19 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
so again

 i held the ball support with a pair of channel locks firmly gripping that hose clamp and using my attached vice grips turned that shaft clockwise (machine is upside down) and lo and behold, that ball support loosened right up!

i was so excited, this is the next step in getting that shaft out!

unfortunately i could not take a pic of using both vice grips and channel locks at same time, not enough hands! but you all get the drift i'm sure, it's not rocket science for you smart guys!

Post# 371069 , Reply# 8   8/10/2009 at 22:24 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
and the ball support is off!

 yeaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!

this is so much fun, when i do something new successfully to further rebuild a machine, whether a dishwasher or a rollermatic! it's what makes this hobby so enjoyable, especially after a long day of work!

note the agitator shaft is hollow with threads in it that the small nipple on the ball support screws into.

i wasn't sure how it attached until a friend on this site informed me on an earlier post.

i knew i could get it if i could grip that support tightly without damaging it's rubber hull.

Post# 371070 , Reply# 9   8/10/2009 at 22:30 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here's a pic

 of the agitate arm, the motor shaft and the double spin wheel in the background.

i love these machines, they are so simple in nature, no oil, no internal transmission, just rollers and wheels!

i remember as a kid when i first saw one on display at an appliance store i used to visit! you turned a crank and it would either spin the shaft or pulsate the shaft depending on direction of crank turning. it was frigidaire's advertising model for their new rollermatic transmissions!

wouldn't you know 44 years later i would still be intrigued by that memory and now have 5 rollermatics in the living room, with a 6th and 7th to pick up when i can.

what dreams may come!

Post# 371071 , Reply# 10   8/10/2009 at 22:31 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here's the ball support

 with the hose clamp removed

Post# 371072 , Reply# 11   8/10/2009 at 22:33 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here's a good pic

 of the little nipple that screws into the agitaor shaft.

i was expecting to find a lock washer like on my 1-18 but no washer! pretty rusty, no wonder it was so hard to loosen!

Post# 371073 , Reply# 12   8/10/2009 at 22:34 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another

 pic

Post# 371074 , Reply# 13   8/10/2009 at 22:36 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
can't get enough

 i'm excited, i got this part loose!

doesn't take much these days to excite me! sad indeed but oh well!

Post# 371076 , Reply# 14   8/10/2009 at 22:39 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
the spin wheel

 i hear that when i remove those phillips screws on that spin wheel i will find brake and clutch parts inside like i did on my 1-18. not sure what to expect but that will come later!

give me another challenge here and more learning! i want to learn all i can about these beautiful rollermatics!

Post# 371080 , Reply# 15   8/10/2009 at 22:52 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here's a long shot

 of this machine, upside down in my living room. hope i'm not damaging the mechanism support by having the machine upside down, i know it is mainly rubber.

now that the agitate arm and ball support are removed from the agitate shaft i am going to flip machine right side up and pull shaft up thru the spin shaft like i read how to do on an earlier post here.

i will pull it up as far as i can and then remove the clamps that hold the outer and inner bellows in place. then continue pulling up until shaft and bottom cone is completely out of machine. then i can anchor that shaft and finally get that stubborn nut off!

think i will put snubber and bottom brace back on first to support the motor and tranmission frame to take the stress off that mechanism support.

i still have a lot of work to do to get that inner tub out.

i am posting these pics to not only entertain here but to possibly help someone else who, like me knows little about these machines and is learning as i go!

when i first got my one from matt i was intimidated to the max! thought i could never do this! now i am learning to keep plugging ahead and not let this machine intimidate me! it's basically a simple design with a few hard to get off parts!

the tub nut will probably be my next big challenge!

will post pics when i continue on, i find it's best for me to do a step, take a break for a week or two, then resume! i don't get frustrated that way!

thanks for viewing, hope you enjoyed!

pete

Post# 371083 , Reply# 16   8/10/2009 at 23:02 (5,370 days old) by norfolksouthern ()        

Good work. The only trouble is, there are so few Rollermatics out there that I doubt this info would be of much use to me. But, I do appreciate that it can be worth something to someone who has one.

I could use some more tips on rebuilding a 1-18, including some sort of illustration of where to put the vice grips. Do you clamp the actual agitator shaft that connects direct to the agitator, and then unscrew the nut that holds down the grey plastic part at the top? If so, do you have a photo that can illustrate this? This information would be very helpful, because it would reduce the risk of any damage to the mechanism I'm trying to fix.

By the way: I'm sorry if I seem like such a pest. But I was diagnosed with Autism and am a little slow at this mechanical stuff. If anybody has questions, I have medical documentation to prove it. Take care, and thanks in advance for the help!

NorfolkSouthern

Post# 371096 , Reply# 17   8/10/2009 at 23:31 (5,370 days old) by soberleaf ()        
don't worry about it

 we all have our medical issues, at least when you get my age! i don't think you are a pest, never have! and i am going to continue on with my 1-18 rebuild here soon, just took a break when these rollermatics came my way.

i think there are more out there than we believe! i mean i found 7 total in less than 3 months! and i am stopping at this level! no more rollermatics, no more dishwashers!

i think.

i put my vice grips on the bottom most part of the agitate shaft, right down next to the coupling that screws into the agitate shaft. i wqnted it as low as i could cause i knew the vice grips would mar the metal shaft a bit and that shaft has to slide thru a bearing in the spin shaft. so i didn't want to dmage a part of the agitate shaft that would be sliding thru that bearing.

after i put my vice grips tightly on that agitate shaft i turned the tub until the vice grips lodged agaist a part of the motor frame. machine is in normal upright position as i do this.

then with that agitate shaft firmly gripped and unable to turn at all i put my socket wrench on that top agitator nut and turned counter clockwise and it loosened right up.

i did not want to try to loosen that nut by simply holding wash tub as i knew i could destroy that keyway that holds agitator shaft from turning in the spin shaft. i knew if i could keep that agitator shaft from turning by gripping it at the bottom using vice grips lodged against the frame of machine i could put as much pressure on that socket wrench as i needed to get that nut off without having to worry about that keyway ripping out.

i have ripped the keyway out on this rollermatic i am posting here, i think you are the one who did a post on keyways and where to get them. it should be an easy fix when i get to that point.
does this help at all? don't have a pic of where i put those vice grips, just grip at the bottom lowest point of agitator shaft where it first comes out of coupler.

Post# 371103 , Reply# 18   8/10/2009 at 23:44 (5,370 days old) by norfolksouthern ()        

I'm thinking, that acorn thing at the bottom of the shaft must be the coupler. And you probably put your vice grip just over that. As for the keyway, I think I might have already screwed that part. Me and Goatfarmer tried to remove the agitator, attempting that feat by holding the tub and trying the wrench. A futile effort, to say the least. Neither of us knew what we were doing! Now the agitator won't move, but at least it will still spin. Perhaps one day, I'll be able to find that part along with any other seal that might be FUBARed.

Rollermatics: Yes, I would like to have one. I don't know how you got such a huge stash, Pete. But they may not be as rare as I thought. And I observe this because you haven't accumulated more than the single 1-18 you have now, yet you managed to get so many of the Rollermatics. I am sure you would have at least one more 1-18 in your shop by now, otherwise. I look forward to seeing that new rebuild thread. Now, all you need is a good video setup!

NorfolkSouthern

Post# 371148 , Reply# 19   8/11/2009 at 06:36 (5,369 days old) by soberleaf ()        
that acorn looking thing

 is the coupler that connects the agitate shaft to the agitate arm.

i wouldn't worry too much about that keyway being destroyed, someone on the site here did a post on keyways and how easy they are to replace, being standard sizes and easily obtained
somewhere, either lowes or true value or somewhere similiar.

i'm gonna search for that post soon, it will be easy to find.

if you want to get that nut off you will most prob have to hold that shaft at the bottom, vice grips should do the trick, it was suggested to me here on this site to use them that way and it worked perfectly.

i never have come across another 1-18 (yet) but you're right i would like one more, for parts if nothing else. the rollermatics i love, got my first one from matt, my friend walt in buffalo supplied me with 3 more, bought that one in tenn. that was on e bay, picked it up last week, and have one in new orleans i am going to have shipped via u crate. there is one more i have agreed to buy in pa.

good luck with your 1-18

Post# 371149 , Reply# 20   8/11/2009 at 06:36 (5,369 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

Very nice tutorial. Nothing like baptism by fire when it comes to working on Frigidaires.

Do be careful to chock the mechanism when you go to turn the machine back upright. As you mentioned the Tub Support Mechanism, an (old and brittle by now) rubber part must be handled with care! Too much stress by a tub out of alighnment will cause it to tear! A disaster! I know because I've had it happen to me.
As far as I know there are no more of those supports out there----at least I have yet to find another one----so do be careful! Without a tub support you are dead in the water! I have learned the hard way to get someone over to help me when I handle/move Frigidaires.

Post# 371162 , Reply# 21   8/11/2009 at 07:51 (5,369 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Keyway's?

 joelippard's profile picture
Oh that was me, when I was in rollermatic hell a few weeks ago. I found them in the loose parts area at ACE Hardware. If you all look back on my post the size is listed there.

Coincidentally I just did a pump job on my '65 rollermatic and it went very well, had to change some old hoses out too. Apparently when I was reworking the pump I disturbed the holy rollers and they insisted on being cleaned before it would agitate properly again.

Post# 371222 , Reply# 22   8/11/2009 at 12:29 (5,369 days old) by soberleaf ()        
what i was gonna do

 was put the bottom brace back on to stabilize and support the transmission/motor assembly before flipping it back over.

will this be good enough? when you say "chock" the mechanism is there any specific thing i should be doing here?

you are right, this is definately a baptism by fire, i learn something new from you guys with each step of the way here.

and thanks for the keyway note here, i will look up that post. we might even have them at home depot where i work or maybe lowes? and there is an ACE close by. they can't be that hard to find.

my main concerns are with water seals and mechanism supports, all rollers on my machines look fine and i have bellows if i need them.

this particular machine i want to tear completely down, everything off, for the experience if nothing else. i'm going to try to pull the agitator shaft out tonite after work and then attempt that hub nut. i did buy that wrench that was suggested to me. it was not cheap but hey, i don't spend money on myself anyway else, i live like a pauper so if i want to spend 70 bucks on a wrench, oh well. this hobby is my only big splurge!

thanks again for the info and tips

Post# 371226 , Reply# 23   8/11/2009 at 12:48 (5,369 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Post

 joelippard's profile picture
Pete, my post is #23019

Here is the excerpt of my post

"I took the key down to ACE Hardware and they had a ton of them in their loose hardware bins. They refer to them as Steel Key,
3/16 x 1 1/4, Item number 2160-5
I bought 4 of them and wanted to post this information into our site archives."

Post# 371316 , Reply# 24   8/11/2009 at 18:24 (5,369 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

Putting the cross-brace back on is always a good move.
An empty 1 gal. paint can does a great job of chocking a mechanism when the machine is on its side. You just want to avoid the tub support mechanism taking all the stress when the machine is lying on its side.

Post# 371364 , Reply# 25   8/11/2009 at 21:02 (5,369 days old) by soberleaf ()        
thanks!

 also made a lot of progress tonite, got nut off agitator shaft and took cone out, water and oil bellows out, they both look good! no holes or rips! a good sign! got hub nut off fine! that wrench works great!

but my snag now is that hub is stuck to spin shaft so i can't pull up and remove inner tub. and i can't budge the screws in tub that hold inner tub to hub itself. i'm soaking it in wd40 tonite. all in all a good nites work!

i will post pics later as i continue. gonna quit for tonite, gettin tired.

Post# 371367 , Reply# 26   8/11/2009 at 21:13 (5,369 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


joelippard's profile picture
You mean you can't get the tub nut to loosen right? Don't even try those screws, they always win. You may need PB Blaster for that nut. Try impacting the nut with a rubber mallet, or line the tub with rags and do it carefully with a standard hammer. I learned from Gyrafoam, and my dad that these machine cooperate best with impact, rather than brute force.

Post# 371371 , Reply# 27   8/11/2009 at 21:23 (5,369 days old) by soberleaf ()        
oh no!

 the nut is off, it came off quite easily, the only thing preventing me from pulling that inner tub out is the fact that the hub is stuck on the spin shaft even with no nut holding it!

any ideas, i know you have been here before!

thanks!

Post# 371382 , Reply# 28   8/11/2009 at 21:41 (5,369 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Wow

 joelippard's profile picture
I've never heard of that before, on the two I've torn into the tub lifts right out when you get the nut off. That thing must have been leaking badly sometime in the past.

Post# 371385 , Reply# 29   8/11/2009 at 21:55 (5,369 days old) by soberleaf ()        
that's what i was thinkin too

 but both bellows look great!

oh well, i think i have an idea, i'm pretty good with riggin up pullers to get parts stuck off shafts using wood and bolts. i think i can make a puller that will push down on the spin shaft at the same time lifting up on the tub top using a 2x4 and bolts. will post a pic of it when i do it, prob several days from now, gonna get some pb blaster and let it soak for a few days.

it will come out somehow, i have gone too far to give up now.
this machine looks in good shape in spite of me droppin it off the truck and destroying the top. i am determined to get it running well!

Post# 371464 , Reply# 30   8/12/2009 at 07:22 (5,368 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

Yoy might try an application of some heat. Sometimes after the PBlaster has had some time to work, taking a torch to it finnishes the job. Just be careful not to get it too hot----don't want to damage the porcelain tub or melt any of that famous Frigidaire "pot metal".

Post# 371467 , Reply# 31   8/12/2009 at 07:46 (5,368 days old) by soberleaf ()        
thanks

 i'm gonna let it soak a day or two, i'm off this thurs and fri so i'll prob tackle it again fri evening.

not too worried at this point, it can't be stuck that bad, i've gotten everything else off and those bellows look so good, the tub looks good, the bearing sounds and "feels" good, i don't think this machine was in that bad a shape before i did my "drop off the truck" number on it.




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