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Thread Number: 24976
Why does everyone think Kenmore is so great? |
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| Post# 385825 , Reply# 1 10/16/2009 at 23:41 (5,303 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii) | ||
Cruel Action Agrivator
As I do prefer a direct drive trans over the old belt drive,I see no reason for any of the companies who severly shortened the agitator stroke to speed up the clothes turn over to have done that without slowing down the speed of agitation.I lost many T-shirts,dress slacks,casual jeans,bath towels and dress shirts from taring caused by them.I soke to a club member a while back on the phone who said that the Maytag Hellical drives tore their clothes.I have never had any Maytag top loading washer tare any of my clothes.In fact,no other top loader ever tore any of my wash.
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| Post# 385857 , Reply# 5 10/17/2009 at 05:03 (5,303 days old) by whitekingd () | ||
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I just love my 1960 and 1961 Kenmore's. Beautiful, colorful machines with great features. Mine have been extremely reliable and efficient. I believe the Roto-Swirl agitator was one of if not the finest agitator made. | ||
Post# 385861 , Reply# 6 10/17/2009 at 07:35 (5,303 days old) by frigilux  (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Delmer---I grew up with a 1960 Kenmore (Model 80) and loved the agitation sounds. Those old fatty Roto-Swirls were great. If I turned the agitator so the 'K' on the scrubber cap aligned, roughly, with 11-and-5 on a clock, the 'K' would be straight up at the end of the clockwise stroke once agitation started. And the waterfall recirculating filters were awesome, as were the tub lights. Mrcleanjeans: Might I suggest this for the next in your series: "Why Does Everyone Think WCI/Franklin Machines Are So Great?" C'mon....I double-dog dare you. | ||
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Post# 385865 , Reply# 7 10/17/2009 at 08:17 (5,303 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA) |
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Sears was really a cultural phenomenon in the 50s and 60s. They made some brilliant assumptions about the suburbanization of America in the late 40s (as contrasted with Wards and Penneys) which let them get "out in front" just enough of the wave of suburbanization. That wave of suburbanization coincided with the need to stuff the new houses full of goods, again, available with easy payment terms (one bill---what a concept) from your local Sears store or from the catalogue. Remember, there was no national credit system or credit cards in those days...credit was a very local decision...but you could take your Sears charge plate to any store nationwide and buy. For the mobility of the upwardly moving junior executive, what could be easier than visiting the local Sears store in the new city, and find everything just about where it was before you left. No risk in trying to get a, say, Wizard washing machine serviced in Bangor, Maine when you ended up there on your next posting... Wards was 10 years behind Sears (and in worse shape at that 10 year point) and Penney's was 12 years behind (but in better shape than Wards...and you can see how that turned out). Sears was in nearly every shopping center built in the second half of the 50s (interestingly, they didn't play in some of the early suburban malls...Southdale in Edina, MN and Northland in Southfield, MI went in in 1952-1954 without Sears) and was able to lock out Wards until well into the 70s from those Class A malls An interesting case was in Overland Park, KS where Sears went into Metcalf South (95th and Metcalf...ground central of 1960s suburbia) in roughly 1961, but that mall was eclipsed in 1973 or so with the building of Oak Park Mall about 4 miles away which ended up with Wards....this was an unusual situation where Sears ended up in what was in the Class B mall and Wards was in the Class A mall. They actually had industrial designers and labs working for them...hence some of the interesting innovations which they used their market power to place into the market (Dual Action Agitator is one case, Toughskins jeans would be another...no one in the kids clothes marketplace could get their minds around adding some nylon to normal denim to make it tougher...all the other players (Levi's...Lee...Wrangler..) in the market had too much invested in the normal 100% cotton denim process and positioning. Finally, it all boiled down to...anyone could shop at Sears without apology. Just like the traditional IBM mantra (you never get fired for recommending IBM), you were never out-of-line shopping at Sears. You wouldn't be fashionable, but the shopper wouldn't be laughed at either. We've got a similar thing going on here in the Great Lakes areas with mass merchants...here in Detroit we've got Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target and a local chain, Meijer. The only 2 of these where you can shop without apology are Target and Meijer, and Meijer has the benefit of having everything (they originated the supercenter with food and hardlines back in the 60s). Wal-Mart, well, is just tasteless/declasse, and K-Mart around here at least has the benefit of formerly being headquartered here, so has the dual benefits of familiarity and proximity (there are still lots of them around, and we've got several Super K-Marts as well). We don't have SuperTarget (and, in my experience in Atlanta, they don't do a very good/comprehensive job with food...about all they have unique are some interesting processed frozen prepared meals...their food sections remind me of Trader Joe's). Meijer has terrific food (they started out as a supermarket) and they take the place Wal-Mart has in smaller midwestern towns (you see everyone there). | ||
| Post# 385869 , Reply# 8 10/17/2009 at 09:09 (5,303 days old) by rickr (.) | ||
Why? | ||
| Post# 385871 , Reply# 9 10/17/2009 at 09:12 (5,303 days old) by rickr (.) | ||
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| Post# 385874 , Reply# 10 10/17/2009 at 09:27 (5,303 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c ) | ||
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BECAUSE!!!!! MUCH more bang for your buck, not only were they very reliable...they had features some of the others could only dream of!!! plus they washed better than most, MUCH better than some, they were quiet, did not tend to get out of balance nearly as bad as a lot of the older machines...need I go on?? | ||
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Post# 385879 , Reply# 11 10/17/2009 at 09:50 (5,303 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Mrcleanjeans - Why does a machine have to satisfy you on the 'boring factor' before it earns your greatness stamp? While it is true that the 70s and 80s Kenmores most often did not have the glamour and glitz of their 60s brethren, they were still mechanically nearly identical and in some ways better. They made the same great sounds, they were fairly easy to work on by a decent tech, and you could get a match to an older machine for many years without having to buy a whole set. The measure of a great machine in my opinion encompasses things such as consumer acceptance, mechanical reliability, and the ability to perform the intended task - all of which the Whirlpool/Kenmore machines excel at. Consumer soaked up Kenmores at a rate unmatched for decades surely due to Sears' marketing initially, but by the 80s we had plenty of other competent choices, yet Kenmore continued to sell as top dog. Belt drive machines served 20-30 years very commonly, and they always managed to return a clean load of laundry, operator error not-withstanding. Those of use who grew up with less-glitzy Kenmores still managed to find coolness in the machines and to establish a life-long hobby due to them, which puts me anyway, here writing. I would say the same for the GE and Maytag designs of the same period. Gordon | ||
| Post# 385930 , Reply# 13 10/17/2009 at 15:38 (5,303 days old) by mrcleanjeans (milwaukee wi) | ||
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BTW, Robert's pink set are amoung the most beautiful ever! | ||
| Post# 385941 , Reply# 16 10/17/2009 at 16:50 (5,303 days old) by autowasherfreak () | ||
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Rick, love the turquoise Kenmore set! Absolutely BEAUTIFUL! | ||
| Post# 385943 , Reply# 17 10/17/2009 at 16:53 (5,303 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
Because they looked cool... | ||
| Post# 386026 , Reply# 22 10/17/2009 at 23:22 (5,302 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
I Always Felt...
...That Kenmore was much better at the top of the range than it was at the lower end. I remember the '65 BOL washer and dryer my mom had for about nine years - some mechanical problems, and you could not keep one of those plastic "bed of nails" lint filters unbroken for more than about nine milliseconds. OTOH, I had a '65 keyboard Lady K that was an absolute delight. And my grandmother bought herself a matched pair of 800s in '68. The washer lasted maybe 20 years, and the dryer is still in use. A set of '65 Lady Ks or a set of 800s are the only vintage laundry pairs I'd consider as drivers, other than Maytag centre-dial machines.
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| Post# 386029 , Reply# 23 10/17/2009 at 23:25 (5,302 days old) by mrcleanjeans (milwaukee wi) | ||
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Those Keyboard Kenmores are a real treat. | ||
| Post# 386064 , Reply# 24 10/18/2009 at 03:40 (5,302 days old) by strongenough78 (California) | ||
Gotta love the Kenmore family.....
It's funny how so many people can't stand them, but others just love them to death. I personally have never had a problem with torn clothes in a Direct Drive Kenmore product. Even my sister in law washes the big afghan blankets that she crochets herself in her direct drive Kenmore and have never had a problem. As much as I like the DA agitator with the faster wash stroke, I do miss the old school Kenmores and Whirlpools. Between my mom's 76 Whirlpool and my grandmothers 71 Lady Kenmore, I was a happy child when I did the laundry. I learned how to at a very young age. The Vari-Flex agitator in the 71 Lady always intrigued me. I always see people talking about the Roto Swirl, and Roto Flex, but not much about the Vari Flex. I never did actually see how it works. I didn't even know exactly what the feature was until I joined this site. And for those of you who have one, how about a short video demonstration! lol you'll be fulfilling a lifelong curiousity. The Lady K/Whirly's I grew up with lasted 25+ years. They cleaned great, had very few problems and were built like tanks. Although pretty much everything in that era was. The Super Surgilator agitator in my moms Whirly would get my fathers work jeans so clean, you would never believe he was a construction laborer. He would come home absolutely filthy, but went to work in clothes you wouldn't think were work clothes. Probably the only thing I would have liked to see improved were the spin speeds. Kenmores are notorious for slow spin speeds. But they got the job done. | ||
| Post# 386074 , Reply# 25 10/18/2009 at 04:35 (5,302 days old) by whitekingd () | ||
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Frigilux! Thank GOD I'm not the only one who alines the "K". Wheww Whee! | ||
| Post# 386148 , Reply# 28 10/18/2009 at 14:26 (5,302 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
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The Bad Thing...
...About Kenmores, I've always thought, was that Sears completely abandoned their styling supremacy beginning around '80. All through the '60s and well up into the '70s, you could not find a higher-style machine than a Lady K, with the sole exception of the Maytag 906. But then, suddenly, the consoles got very cheap-looking, with silk-screening and Ye Olde Fayke Woode Graine replacing the die-cast delights you saw formerly. '80s BD Kennies are excellent machines mechanically, but they are not much to look at, and the superb model differentiation of earlier decades was lost - it became hard to tell different model series apart (something that has gotten even worse, BTW). I defy anyone who is not a washer maven to go into Sears now and pick out the TOL machines on the first try. For my money, the genius of Sears in the '60s was that each model series had very strong visual differences, with each series saying, "If you'll spend a little more money, you can have me!" Excellent point-of-sale marketing - it was very easy to go into Sears determined to buy only what you needed, and end up with the Lady K, because each model series you looked at SO obviously offered more than the ones below it. I well remember the '65 keyboard Lady K I had - solid, solid metal for everything you touched except the agitator. The lid for the dispenser looked like something off a '60s Lincoln Continental. Even the garage-door Lady K's of a few years later can't touch the first keyboard generation for looks and solid, satisfying feel. | ||
| Post# 386149 , Reply# 29 10/18/2009 at 14:33 (5,302 days old) by mrcleanjeans (milwaukee wi) | ||
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So very true about the not so greatys '80s with their genuine simulated wood grain,at least the black panel of the latter '70s was better than that,comparatively speaking. | ||
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Post# 386219 , Reply# 30 10/18/2009 at 19:36 (5,302 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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The black paneled machines, especially the Lady Ks, were victims of the times, not of Sears styling decisions. Having a manufacturing background, it is all too easy for me to understand the debacle Sears must have had to wade through in the eventual decision to standardize the appearance of their machines. The bottom line was cost. Even back in the mid 70s, most everyone else had control panels that boasted a fair amount if not 100% parts commonality between models. It is grossly un-economical to make a custom control panel for a specific model. Sears did exactly that however en masse in the 1960s, but the competive market of later decades did not allow for that. Each time a new console is devised, every new part must get an engineering drawing, tested, molds or dies made, quality specs drawn, etc. Building the many variations that Sears did in say 1964 (with models from 1962, 63, 64 and early 65 all in production at once) the resulting complexity and variation between models must have been ridiculous to keep track of vs. 20 years later when everything going down the line had one of two control panel structures, either plastic or metal. Gross profit margins on machines and entire product lines are measured to the penny. Save a dime per machine, when making 30,000 machines a week - that's a LOT of money per year, and Sears finally learned that. Evidence of the learning process with this can be seen in the standardized console structures of Maytag, GE and even Whirlpool (much sooner than Kenmore), and even in the U.S. automotive industry's products as they became 'cookie cutter' cars of the 1970s. It's very true what was said above about the weight of some Lady Kenmore consoles. The 1972 Lady K machine weiged at least 25 pounds more than the rest of the line, all due to the keyboard controls. That's 25 pounds of mechanicals that weren't entirely necessary and cost a lot of money to manufacture. I wish it wasn't true, but the reason for the loss of elegance is due to nothing more than cost. | ||
| Post# 386223 , Reply# 31 10/18/2009 at 20:04 (5,302 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
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Gordon:
I'm completely in sympathy with the reasons for the changes in Sears' approach, but I think the old way was money well spent. Sears was supreme in those days, and now Kenmore is just another brand. It's my opinion that when they stopped spending the money to break out their model lines so distinctly, they stopped giving customers reasons to dig a little deeper when buying a new machine. If the BOL and TOL machines look very similar, customers can tell themselves that the extra money being asked for the TOL isn't really buying all that much. When Sears was really rocking and rolling, there was no way a consumer could do that - the difference was as plain as could be. In my opinion, the very least manufacturers should be doing is to break out their TOL machines much more strongly than they are doing now, so as to dazzle customers with something obviously more wonderful than the rest of the line. If the rest of the line all has to look alike for cost reasons, so be it, but when a line looks the same from bottom to top, there just isn't enough reason to aspire to anything more than what one needs. Today's Kenmore Elite Oasis top-loader - roughly equivalent to the Lady K of old - is a very nice-looking machine. But it will not stop a Sears shopper in her tracks, the way the old keyboard Kennies would - it just looks too much like the other machines. To me, that translates into wasted sales opportunity, particularly aspirational sales, where the customer was dazzled by the TOL two years ago, and was saving and scheming ever since to get one. | ||
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