Thread Number: 25575
Help me with Front Loader decision here are my priorities: 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 393510   11/15/2009 at 19:39 (5,268 days old) by ras55 ()        

I am about 75% leaning toward a front loader.

My biggest priority is a model with the highest level of stability and least vibrations as this is a second floor install. I will be placing it on solid joists about 1' from where the joists rest on the sidewall beam, but I still want to get one with the highest rating or reports on stability.

My second priority would be less than $700 street price. I note the gallery is about $500 and the 7000 and 8000 models or the affinity are about $570 right now on sale.

Also in my top priority is having some control over wash and rinse temperature, and I really ant to see more some amount of water in those washes and rinses. In my mind it is one thing to use 40 or 50% less water, but I have no desire to wash or rinse my clothes in 90% ss water. I have a kid with skin allergies and I would really like an option for a warm rinse.

my nieghbor has a duet as does my sister and both of them have had continous problems.

The wife and I have two young kids but I think a 3.5 CF will be sufficient.

I don't take Con Reports to be the bible, and it seems as though they are being politically correct in supporting the extreme greening of the washing machines.

I saw that they gave the frigidair 3.5 CF gallery a very good rating and specifically also a good rating on vibration. I was surprised that while they gave the Frigidaire Affinity 3.5's a good general rating they gave that a poor rating on stability/vibration. I would have assumed that two 3.5 from the same maker would have essentially the same mechanical guts.

I would also like a machine with proper hot and proper warm or where it is possible to hack the atc or water level just a tad, or at least override the temperature with my own manual adjustment of input faucets .

An onboard heater is attractive to me but not as important as being able to warm rinse, as well as get a true warm for washing (not 70 or 75 Fahrenheit)

Last time I looked I was looking at the Kenmore versions of the duets since they had more user control over temperature but that was a couple of years ago.

Anyway I would very much appreciate and thoughts on the current models that may fit my needs -- else it is another top loader for me.




Post# 393528 , Reply# 1   11/15/2009 at 21:01 (5,268 days old) by toploader1984 ()        

if u don't want any vibrations do NOT get a front loader, they will not last, the only machine that has decent quality is the speed queen and it is around 1500 dollars which isnt bad, ALL front loaders have automatic temp control so even if u select HOT it mixes cold with it which is stupid.

Post# 393571 , Reply# 2   11/15/2009 at 23:04 (5,268 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        

laundromat's profile picture
I never had any issues with any front loaders regarding vibrations.The L.G.,Frigidaire Afinity,Samsung and Whirlpool are the ones I highly recomend in that exact order.My Frigidaire did well but the L.G. was the best.It would spin either clockwise or counter clockwise depending on the way the drum was revolving during the ballance sensing and it never vibrated.The 1200 rpm spin speed really got lots more water out and I would normaly use the "Quick wash" cycle which was a 7 minute wash and two deep rinses with no spin inbetween.Just a final 5 minute spin at the end.The final rinse was always clear with no remaining suds.Tewnty eight minutes from wash to off.The dryer always had the load dry and shut off before the next load was ready to go in.Samsung claims their ballance system is the best bragging about the award they won this year. I am not as familiar with their models though and the Whirlpool units do o.k. but give you no access to their "button trap"which is important in case there is a draning issue mostly caused by items left in pockets.Their door boot is also an issue.I had some socks and handkerchefs get stuck in mine.

Post# 393585 , Reply# 3   11/16/2009 at 00:20 (5,268 days old) by volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)        
Quality and hot water with good rinsing.

 volvoguy87's profile picture
Go for a Speed Queen Top Loader. I will outlast anything else made today, it uses enough water to get the job done, both fast and well. It also rinses well. Look at cycle times and some front loaders can pass 3 hours to run a cycle, while a Speed Queen top loader is good for about a 30 minute regular cycle. I believe it won't dumb down water temps either. They aren't cheap, but they are the best bang for the buck these days.

Saving water is good, but a long-lasting and effective machine is worth considering too,
Dave

Post# 393608 , Reply# 4   11/16/2009 at 04:47 (5,268 days old) by ras55 ()        

Just to clarify, the time per load is a low priority for me.

With kids though I certainly would like access to a button/coin trap. NOt that whirlpool is high on the list but is this serviceable at least by an owner with a high degree of DIY skill?

In terms of vibration I think going with one of the make and model considered low vibration most stable in spin, along with my placement knowing my own subfloor and joists, I am willing to give a front loader a chance since my vendor says they will take it back within in 30 days.

$1500 is not an option. I am going to stick to the 700 budget limit. When it comes to street price that brings in some 20 models of front loaders and about 90% of the top loaders. Also right now my 7 year old GE top loader has a failed motor and one failed switch which I can fix myself with parts from ebay for about $300.

Post# 393633 , Reply# 5   11/16/2009 at 08:42 (5,267 days old) by hoover1100 (U.K.)        

Providing the machine is level on the floor and the floor is stable there should be minimal vibrations with any front loading machine unless it is faulty or incorrectly installed.

Obviously a suspended woodern floor will cause more vibration with any machine.

I don't know a huge amount about U.S. machines but I do know not all machines have a "dumbed down" hot water temperature. Warm and cold are usually controlled but I see that as a positive feature to provide a more constant wash temperature where the machine is running on 110V.

From what I've seen of the U.S. machines and from experience of european brands I'd go with the Frigidaire Affinity for your price range. It has a "sanitize" programme with a built in heater and up to 20min main wash times on regular cycles. These are made by Electrolux and seem to be the equivalent of european "zanussi" machines which from experience are the best of the "cheaper" machines. The wash and rinse profiles seem to be very similar to Zanussi and from experience those machines wash and rinse very well, even without using warm (unheard of here) or extra rinse options. Don't be fooled into thinking less water means poorer results, I used to think that but from using modern machines it is most definately not true, it's how the water is used that counts and these machines seem to use it very well.

Of all the U.S. machines these seem to be the closest to a proper European front loader that you can get without paying rediculous prices.

I've used Speed Queen front loaders and they gave much poorer wash and rinse results to the machines I am used to, broke down very frequently and made a hell of a noise on spin, so I can't say I was impressed one bit!

Remeber to use oxi bleach not chlorine bleach, and to use low sudsing ,preferably powdered detergent, as chlorine and high suds can damage even the best of front loaders (they are not designed for it, niether of those products are used here in Europe) and powdered detergent is best for any machine.

Also always leave the door ajar, do not leave laundry in the machine for long amounts of time and use the hottest temperatures possible. Common sense really but I know far too many people who neglect to do this and wonder why their machine smells or has mould in it!

Hope this helps!

Matt

Post# 393647 , Reply# 6   11/16/2009 at 09:29 (5,267 days old) by lavamat_jon (UK)        

I have to agree with Matt... I used Neptunes that were in my uni laundry last year and they left a lot to be desired compared to our standard frontloaders here. Alright for general laundry - but I can see the need for bleach in the US as my whites got dingier over the year.

Interestingly, the Maytag Neptunes replaced a bank of Maytag toploaders, and the Neptunes despite spinning at up to 1000rpm I believe all vibrated far less than the toploaders that were there before - I witnessed for myself a couple of times the toploaders walking a few inches across the floor in the spin.

The Frigidaire's do seem very similar to our Zanussi's, which are decent budget machines. My sisters performs well, and quickly. 40*C cottons done pretty much to perfection in 45 minutes, so if the Frigidaire's have similar programming I would imagine results to be similar.

Jon

Post# 393686 , Reply# 7   11/16/2009 at 11:57 (5,267 days old) by stainfighter (Columbia, SC)        
Hard to beat on price - FriGEmore

 stainfighter's profile picture
you might also want to consider the 3.1 cu Frigidaire, affectionately dubbed by Sudsmaster long ago as FriGEmore (because of the many labels associated with this design - labeled for Frigidaire, GE, Kenmore, White-Westinghouse, also Gibson). If one is handy enough to fix a switch on a TL it isn't impossible to open the bottom panel to empty out the coin trap tho' a bit of hassle. In 8 years have only had to open it once; you get into the habit of checking pockets before loading her up. No on-board heater but you can get tap hot fill and a true WARM rinse. On this model one can conceivably open the lid to adjust the fill level (tho I have not attempted to yet). AFAIK it has a mechanical timer, no computer board to fail. Adding a garment after cycle started is EASY - just (carefully) open the detergent dispenser, wait for the water to stop moving, open the hatch then close up the dispenser to resume cycle. On rare occasion have noticed suds residue right before final spin, one can stop the timer and easily add in another rinse. 3.1 doesn't sound big but often we have to break a full load into two dryer loads. On HH Gregg's web site an example is on the last page 'washers and dryers'. You might be able to find one at a Sears outlet for less $ than this as a scratch 'n dent (?)

CLICK HERE TO GO TO stainfighter's LINK
Post# 393694 , Reply# 8   11/16/2009 at 12:30 (5,267 days old) by ras55 ()        

Matt thanks. I lived in Europe for 15 years, and frankly the machines there are typically smaller and at least in southern Europe the upper floors tend to be concrete. that is why, here, stateside, with bigger capacity front loaders, and the almost certainly that anything but a basement installation, is going to be on a suspended wooden floor, the vibration and vibration/stability compensation is a known and considered factor. I am installing on second floor of a wood frame house meaning there is a basement, a suspended joist first floor and above it a suspended joist second floor (my basement is rented as it is an urban townhouse).

I intend to minimize the risk by having the washer very near the end point (within one foot) of the joists, (joists which I have inspected) and by making sure I am able to return the washer if need be, but frankly I do believe that there is a difference in vibration (and specifically downward forces that could resonate and feedback into worse and worse vibration) between makes and models of front loaders. some of these could be inadvertent and some would be the result of time and money (or lack of) by the manufacturers in thinking it out and testing it.

So I guess what I am looking for here, when it comes to vibration, is anecdotal or first hand information from the regulars here who might relate something like: "we had a nubmer of posters who had vibration with such and such a make and model on their joist floor but reported much less of a problem with "xyz" make model "abc"."

I will then consider that along with Consumer Reports' accelerometer based testing, which they instituted because of vibration problems specific to the US market (larger machines, less concrete in construction)

IN terms of water use, I don't have a PhD in chemistry but it was my major for my bachelors. I have no doubt that front loaders exploit efficiencies using less water, but I also have no doubt, that when it comes for example to rinsing that with basic principles of dilution, more is better -- just as warmer water is better for penultimate rinse.

I "get" the issue with internal heaters on 120v vs 22v0 and European cold only hookups. I don't need a multi cycle internal heater as my hot water heater stands next to the washer and is set to 140 mixed to 120, but if absent I want an ATC that is not set 20 degrees lower per setting than it should be or that is overridable by some means (ie hackable by the user through control of faucets, a screwdriver or some series of known diagnostic level button pushes) to have the ability to bring warm to true warm of 90 degrees Fahrenheit, and hot to 120, and to bring "cold" to 50 or 60 degrees instead of my tap temperature of 40 degrees Fahrenheit in winter.

I also wish to have the option for warm water rinse. I do understand high spins extract more making high dilution less of an issue, but am not interested in rinsing my clothes in a gallon of water no mater what.


In short I would like use half the water and therefore half the current to heat it. using 1/4 of the amount of water and reducing my temperature as well is something I intend to avoid as I do not believe this will get the results I,a s a personal preference want.

to those ends I am looking for model specifics, as opposed to the general considerations between FL and TL machines.

For example, it seems there are people who open up and know the machines well here. I cannot tell from the literature or the chirpy customer rep on the Frigidaire 800 line:

Is the Frigidaire rep on the 800 line correct or incorrect in stating that the drive, suspension and vibration reduction on the Frigidaire Gallery and Affinity the same? If so why does the lower end 3.5 CF Gallery get top vibration reduction scores and the 3.5 CF Affinity score as among the worst?


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