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Thread Number: 27250
Waste King kills KitchenAid |
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Post# 418811 , Reply# 1 2/26/2010 at 18:15 (5,166 days old) by rp2813  (Sannazay) |
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OMG
David I am so with you on this.
With all due respect to KA, and they definitely still have mine, my Thermador THD 3600 absolutely kills as the thread's title states. However, there's never a free lunch and there are quirks deal with. There's still a tower to dodge but it's stationary and the rack design avoids it without compromising the loading plan. The mesh of the silverware baskets isn't fine enough, as is witnessed by scratches on the door where things poked through, and downward. The mechanical timer clicks and clunks its way through the cycles which is OK until it hits "Dry." The rinse/hold cycle is overkill. But this thing can steam-clean! Of course I expect clean dishes from any machine I own, but the challenging things like casseroles etc are where the men and boys part ways. This machine is about as macho as you're going to find. But even better is the fact that I no longer need to have a towel handy when unloading the top rack. The Thermador dries better than any machine I've used in the past. There is NO water left in anything. The rack's design seems to facilitate slanted cups, mugs, etc more than other makes, which helps in this regard. The WK/Thermadors of this vintage are true workhorses and you'll know they're running, but they aren't trying to hide the fact that the contents are being taken to task. The sound is of powerful jets of water, not clanking dishes, because the deluxe tines prevent that from happening. The days of these machines are numbered. Parts are next to impossible to find. I'm glad I'm able to enjoy mine for as long as it will serve me. I still love KitchenAid. If the Thundering Thermador ever needs to be replaced, it'll be a 90's vintage KA to the rescue. KitchenAid is to dishwashers what Maytag is to clothes washers. This really hit home with me when I picked up the KD 12P for Nate recently. It has been washing dishes for 57 years, right up until a couple of days before I came for it. After a short vacation in my garage, it'll be back doing what it does best in Nate's kitchen. Apparently there's no end in sight for this little machine. I had a KDI 21 for 18 years and loved it. After a horrible relationship with the Motley Maytag (I don't care how well it cleaned, and it did clean well) I'm treating myself to a love affair with a rare and unusual machine for as long as it will have me. Oh, and if anybody knows about where to find parts, please advise. I know ebay isn't going to rescue me every time. Ralph | ||
| Post# 418818 , Reply# 3 2/26/2010 at 19:02 (5,166 days old) by washmeup (scottsdale) | ||
Kitchen Aid/Whirlpool
Whirlpool as de-styled and de-classes every brand they own. They have killed the once exclusive brand of Kitchen Aid and made the product so cheap in quality. I have a Miele Dishwasher now and it is what Kitchen Aid should be. But that will never happen as long as Whirlpool is there to look at the brand only for huge profit sake. I guess you can tell that I am not a fan of Whirlpool? :)
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Post# 418822 , Reply# 4 2/26/2010 at 19:15 (5,166 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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David let me give you an observartion from someone who lived with one from spring 1968 until sometime in 1973 or 1974. Platters had to go along the edge of the right side so not stop the upper wash arm roation (and that was with removing one flatware basket. Not all tall glasses could be tilted sideways. Not very practical for my mom's crystal wine gobblets. We had some extremely large ice tea glasses. They were too wide to fit in the standard rows in the top rack (the moveable row dividers like on Ralph's Thermador weren't "invented" for the top rack in 1968) for one thing and also too tall to "fit" in the top rack, they had to go in the bottom. The white dishes you see in my own dishwasher were what we used mostly for everyday, the other being my grandmother's dishes my mom got after her mom's death. The ONLY place one could put the white dishes cereal bowls was down the middle of the top rack. I personally think that's a huge waste of top rack real estate for a family generating lots of glasses, coffee cups, and mugs and what-not. I prefer all cereal bowls in the bottom for that reason. My grandmother's dishes were "oldfashioned". They had large rimmed-type soup bowls. When we had 8 for dinner that was stew or something like that, there wasn't enough space for 8 dinner plates and 8 soup bowls and dessert dishes. The dessert/salad plates were almost too big to put in the top rack. No space for any kind of meal prep ware. We only used one flatware basket to make room for cake pans and cassarole dishes on the far right side. And because of the arrangement of the tines where you'd put dinner plates, you couldn't use that space for doubling up on bread/butter, saucer, or finger-tip bowls because the gap was too wide. If loaded just so, it could hold 12 dinner plates just like a KA, but not the accompanying 12 salad plates. But cmopared to the one-level wash wonder of 1968, it held a lot more for a dinner for a family of 5 because you could include all sorts of meal prep bowls, pots, pans, as well as breakfast dishes and accumulating glasses and such throughout the day and not worry about having the blocking of water issue the one-level wash wonder had. And it cleaned very well when I could sneek in not rinsing dishes. And if the truth be told, when we got the RotoRack to replace it, the RotoRack had added capacity because of the wide-open bottom rack. My mom couldn't get quite as many glasses and cups in the RotoRack as the WK, but I could cuz I knew how to load it plus the cereal bowls now got to go in the bottom rack.
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Post# 418827 , Reply# 5 2/26/2010 at 19:25 (5,166 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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the 1961 top loading portable with half a wash arm under eac
Tom, are you referring to a WK portable? Do you know WHEN in 1961 that was released to the market? could there have been one in fall or late 1960? I've always vaguely remembered seeing a display version of some sort of dishwasher and me looking down in the top of it. I remember it had 1/2 a wash arm that went round and round with the water spraing. and I do believe it had the strange orange interior. but I don't recall the bottom wash arm since I was so fascinated by the 1/2 revolving spraing upper wash arm. I would imagine I was spying on this while my parents were buying the 1st WK we had. And the salesman obviously turned it on to keep me occupied and out of everyone else's hair. Have never forgotten that one time I saw this. Obviously it had a clear see-thru top for demo purposes in the showroom.
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Post# 418866 , Reply# 6 2/26/2010 at 21:07 (5,166 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Bob, you have captured a number of limitations regarding how you have to load these WK/Thermador machines. I noticed them at first, but coming from an impossible Maytag layout, this Thermador seems like pure genius with its racking. Tom has also pointed out that large items present a problem due to the bisected lower rack. I have had to remove a flatware basket in order to accommodate a large platter that could be placed anywhere in the lower rack of a KitchenAid. It's not like I wash large items in every load, so this is something I can live with. I got what would probably qualify as a BobLoad into the Thermador this week and everything came out sparkling and perfectly dry. I snapped a picture with my phone, but can't upload it. I'll see if I can send it to someone and have them e-mail it back to me if it came out well enough to post.
As I stated above, I'm willing to work with the quirks because it's a fun and powerful machine. Another washer analogy might be that if KA's are the Maytags, the WK/Thermadors are the Speed Queens. No doubt about it though, for ease of loading and rack layout you can't beat a vintage KitchenAid. Ralph | ||
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Post# 418870 , Reply# 7 2/26/2010 at 21:19 (5,166 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Ralph, I guess it shows how much and how long I lived with that thing--from age 13 until first year of college or there about. I think we even removed one of the two flatware baskets in the original WK (those baskets went in the front across the bottom rack like a KA. I thinik mom or myself pulled the 2nd flatware basket out before the new WK was even loaded for the 1st time (and was put in a nearby lower kitchen cabinet and didn't see the light of day until the machine was removed).
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Post# 418898 , Reply# 8 2/26/2010 at 23:15 (5,166 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD) |
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WK DWs The wash arm was like a Z, but with a straight column. | ||
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Post# 418941 , Reply# 9 2/27/2010 at 09:06 (5,166 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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2 cents.
I love late generation Waste King/Thermadors. In fact I though Norris Industries products were all pretty great. I haven't done a comparison but they are very cool, unique machines. My Aunt Sona had an early 60's Waste King that I though was an inferior machine, but once they went to the newer SS designs I thought they had a great machine. The one I have is terrific.
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Post# 418943 , Reply# 10 2/27/2010 at 09:12 (5,166 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 418973 , Reply# 11 2/27/2010 at 12:20 (5,165 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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I have two big concerns about my Thermador. The timer, which from what I've been reading over the past couple of months seems to be a weak link and impossible where replacements are concerned, and the seams in the tub where the sides meet up with the bottom. The heating element looks more beefy than what I've seen in other dishwashers, so I'm hoping looks aren't deceiving in this particular case.
If those components hold up, I think the Thermador will last me a while. | ||
| Post# 418985 , Reply# 12 2/27/2010 at 13:52 (5,165 days old) by mrcleanjeans (milwaukee wi) | ||
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That Thermador is fabulicious! | ||
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Post# 418997 , Reply# 13 2/27/2010 at 14:56 (5,165 days old) by appliguy (Oakton Va.) |
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Unfortunately that Thermador is also junk...
A friend of my family, Mrs Shoushanian, had that same Thermador Dishwasher installed during an early 80's kitchen remodel and it only lasted about 5 years before the so called stainless steel interior corroded and the mechanism broke down beyond repair. I remember seeing the dishwasher in the early 1990's because when it died it sat unused until Mrs Shoushanian could afford to replace it. Her Thermador wall oven form that period was also junk becasue the automatic features and the rolling digital clock died in less than 5 years as well.
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| Post# 418998 , Reply# 14 2/27/2010 at 14:57 (5,165 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida) | ||
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Post# 419021 , Reply# 15 2/27/2010 at 16:28 (5,165 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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So no pics of these machines ? | ||
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Post# 419051 , Reply# 16 2/27/2010 at 19:39 (5,165 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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1986 TD DW | ||
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Post# 419114 , Reply# 17 2/28/2010 at 02:20 (5,165 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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John | ||
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Post# 419826 , Reply# 18 3/2/2010 at 12:12 (5,162 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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I learned something the other night
The value of steam.
I did another Bob-approved load with the top rack crammed full and the bottom seriously loaded down. Everything came out fine except for one oversized cereal bowl (on the bottom rack) that had been used to heat something up in the microwave. It had some crusty residue all around up near the rim, and after a "Regular Wash" cycle a bit of it still remained. I decided to fill the bowl with water and let it sit in the sink. When I came back to it, I was able to wipe away the residue with just my fingers. I know now that if I had used the steam option, this bowl would have come out perfectly clean. I've been conservative about using the steam cycles, but next time I have this type of soiling on any item included in the load, I'll select steam. That's why I have this dishwasher, after all! Mike, the pix of my Thermador are in thread #27067 here in Imperial, which is currently about halfway down the list. Ralph | ||
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