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Thread Number: 27293
Comparison of agitation - RotoSwirl vs. RotoFlex |
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| Post# 419257 2/28/2010 at 13:41 (5,163 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA) | ||
While we're waiting for Gordon's shipping guy to come pick up the three machines, I thought I'd have a little fun with them. When the pictures of the 900 set were posted, there seemed to be some discussion as to which agitator worked better. So, I figured a little side by side comparison was in order. Here's the two lab rats for our experiment...
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| Post# 419259 , Reply# 1 2/28/2010 at 13:43 (5,163 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA) | ||
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Ooohhh, lookie! The 900's all lit up now! | ||
| Post# 419261 , Reply# 2 2/28/2010 at 13:45 (5,163 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA) | ||
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| Post# 419262 , Reply# 3 2/28/2010 at 13:46 (5,163 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA) | ||
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| Post# 419264 , Reply# 4 2/28/2010 at 13:47 (5,163 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA) | ||
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| Post# 419265 , Reply# 5 2/28/2010 at 13:52 (5,163 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA) | ||
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| Post# 419266 , Reply# 6 2/28/2010 at 13:54 (5,163 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA) | ||
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| Post# 419269 , Reply# 7 2/28/2010 at 13:57 (5,163 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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Post# 419270 , Reply# 8 2/28/2010 at 13:59 (5,163 days old) by peteski50  (New York) |
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Kenmore! | ||
| Post# 419271 , Reply# 9 2/28/2010 at 14:00 (5,163 days old) by Dblrinz () | ||
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RCD Great Video! Thanks!!! | ||
| Post# 419273 , Reply# 10 2/28/2010 at 14:05 (5,163 days old) by JeffG () | ||
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Rotoswirl = Best agitator ever IMO. Nothing before or since has ever beat it for performance vs. gentleness. | ||
| Post# 419277 , Reply# 11 2/28/2010 at 14:08 (5,163 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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| Post# 419281 , Reply# 12 2/28/2010 at 14:12 (5,163 days old) by sudsman () | ||
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Rotoswirl Gets my vote! | ||
| Post# 419287 , Reply# 13 2/28/2010 at 14:22 (5,163 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA) | ||
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Full disclosure required!
I actually had to remove two towels and bump up the water level on the RotoSwirl (the white washer) for that turnover. Otherwise, it was just slogging around. Those two towels ended up in the RotoFlex and then I actually added two more and it still seemed to handle all of it just fine. There is a theory that since the RotoSwirl is a larger agitator setup, that it might cut down on overall capacity a little bit, but I don't know that for sure. The 900 with the RotoFlex sure did move the load. I am interested to see what everyone's opinions are and esp. Gordon's as he is the proud Papa to be of these...
RCD | ||
| Post# 419288 , Reply# 14 2/28/2010 at 14:26 (5,163 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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| Post# 419290 , Reply# 15 2/28/2010 at 14:30 (5,163 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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| Post# 419292 , Reply# 16 2/28/2010 at 14:34 (5,163 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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| Post# 419295 , Reply# 17 2/28/2010 at 14:51 (5,163 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
Great Video Drew | ||
| Post# 419299 , Reply# 19 2/28/2010 at 15:01 (5,163 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA) | ||
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That choice cost me, Eddie!
I'm still learning the in's and out's of YouTube. I originally posted that video with a little Manhatten Transfer but due to the ownership of the song, YouTube allowed the video but muted the audio track. Not good! I took it down and redid the video with the current music BUT since Sony owns rights to that, the video is up BUT for reasons beyond me, it's blocked from playing in Germany! Oh, it also can't be played on iPod touches just in case I'm travelling into Germany... (rolls eyes!) just the same, thanks for the complement!
RCD | ||
| Post# 419307 , Reply# 20 2/28/2010 at 15:27 (5,163 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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Dear Gyrafoam
I never heard about washers that damages clothes....!!!!! My grandmother haves a Kenmore with rotoswirl agitator and her old clothes looks like new ever since! I know of some bed sheets purchased in 1969 and still used regularly wich are like new as when she bought ... the same for my clothes .. are like new after many years ... I have a coin-op Maytag. | ||
| Post# 419308 , Reply# 21 2/28/2010 at 15:28 (5,163 days old) by autowasherfreak () | ||
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My vote is RotoSwirl. I also agree with peterh770 the surgilator is one of the best agitators. Whirlpool needs to bring it back and dump the dual action agitator. | ||
| Post# 419310 , Reply# 22 2/28/2010 at 15:29 (5,163 days old) by autowasherfreak () | ||
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Andrew, I love the video! I'm going to save that one to my hard drive. | ||
| Post# 419320 , Reply# 23 2/28/2010 at 15:43 (5,163 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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Post# 419327 , Reply# 24 2/28/2010 at 16:18 (5,163 days old) by lotsosudz (Sacramento, CA) |
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Post# 419333 , Reply# 26 2/28/2010 at 16:41 (5,163 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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| Post# 419336 , Reply# 27 2/28/2010 at 16:51 (5,163 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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I'm stil thinking of that is impossible that a washer could damage clothes!!!!
remember that agitators are made with a particular material wich avoid the friction with clothes, and about the friction between cloth and cloth i think it is not so high to may cause "damages". And remember that the friction is even more reduced with wet clothes.... a washing with an AGITATOR washer "damages" less than an hand washing!!!!.... and please don't tell me about front load washers wich are a scam!!! | ||
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Post# 419342 , Reply# 28 2/28/2010 at 17:16 (5,163 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA) |
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Martin---- E-mail Surgilator68 and he can tell you exactly how to do it. | ||
| Post# 419350 , Reply# 29 2/28/2010 at 17:44 (5,163 days old) by strongenough78 (California) | ||
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| Post# 419365 , Reply# 30 2/28/2010 at 18:48 (5,163 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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Issues, issues, issues....
It is very elementary, my dear Watson. An agitator washer beats clothes clean. The straighter the vanes, the more beating occurs. Beating causes damage, maybe not visible to the eye, but it is there. There is also chemical damage from additives, but we're not discussing that here. Every time you clean your dryer lint screen, you are cleaning the damage that occurred in the washer that did not get flushed away or caught in whatever lint filter may be inside the washer. Some washers will cause more linting depending on their agitator/speed/time. More heavily loaded machines will cause more linting as the load has less room to move and remains in contact with the "thrashing blades". Therefore, a heavily loaded Roto-Flex machine will probably cause more lint because the 6 vanes thrash away while the load struggles to roll over and get out of the way. The Roto-Swirl has the built in ramps which helps roll over, along with its flat paddles to do the cleaning. My guess is that more lint will be found in the dryer after drying a Roto-Flex washed load than a Roto-Swirl washed load. But IMHO the Swirl is just as damaging because of its size. So when we look at ALL agitators, we probably find that the ramp agitators of Hotpoint, GE, Easy and Westinghouse are quite gentle with their suck down/burp up action, while the straight vanes of Maytag, Speed Queen, GE and Norge thrash up a good amount of lint. Last, why do you think us aficionados don't like direct drive WP/KM Thrashmore washers -- straight vanes, faster agitation speed, auger forcing the loads down? Frontloaders may be a scam, in your humble opinion, but if you have one that uses the right amount of water and tumbles at the right speed, it beats all. Except for Frigidaire pulsators, but all knew that already... | ||
| Post# 419367 , Reply# 31 2/28/2010 at 18:51 (5,163 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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Post# 419377 , Reply# 33 2/28/2010 at 20:07 (5,163 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Thanks for this RCD!
Okay, this is lenghty, even for me, but I'm thinking that perhaps this opens the door to a larger test of standard capacity Kenmores & Whirlpools. As far as I've counted, we've got 9 different agitators in these machines. What comes to mind are the original bakelite versions of the Surgilator and Straight Vane, the plastic later versions of both (the straight vane is considerably different), the original Roto-Swirl (pregnant) and the Super Roto-Swirl, the Roto-Flex, the Vari-Flex, and the Dual-Action. Yes, there was a version of the Dual-Action used in standard machines that has a different auger than the large cap. versions.
I'm almost ashamed to admit that I have machines with all these, so I am thinking this would be a cool test to do on an identical laundry load. Perhaps this summer... Anyway, to answer RCD, since he asked my opinion....I have mixed feelings about the two agitators and I'm not sure I'm as well informed as some of the other responders on here. From a visual perspective, the Roto-Flex in Andy's test seems to be rolling-over the load better than the 'Swirl does, and I have seen much the same results in one of my machines at home which came standard with a Straight-Vane but I but I have swapped in a Roto-Swirl for fun once in a while. The action with the Straight Vane is very similar looking to that in the Green 900 machine. The ramp in the 'Swirl clearly does a lot to alter the 'flow' of the clothes, but I debate whether that's good or not. I will offer this two-part conclusion - The Roto-Flex was heavily advertised and Sears apparently had a lot invested in it from an image standpoint. Claims of 15% cleaner wash are in several two-page adds in 1965 and 1966 catalogs. Within a few short years, the agitator was gone. There must have been something wrong (maybe a design flaw?) because Super Roto-Swirls, which debuted in 1963 were in production through the end of the belt-drive machines, unchanged. That's about 24 years. If the Roto-Flex was a success, it would have hung around more than four or five years. The low-end Straight-Vane, which had similar agitation to the Roto-Flex, was introduced in 1967/1968 and lasted in production until 1984 or so, also a long run. BUT, that agitator was not used in anything other than BOL to MOL machines (except 24-inch) so Sears must have known it had limitations, and the Roto-Swirl picked up where the Straight-Vane ended in the line. Until the Dual-Action came out, the Roto-Swirl was the top dog in standard agitators. My conclusion basically is that even though the visual roll-over of the Roto-Flex and Straight Vane are fun to watch, Sears knew what they were marketing enough to leave the Roto-Swirl higher on the heap than those two, long term. One thing perhaps worth noting - one of the '65 Lady Ks I owned until recently had scrape marks on the bottom of the basket just like the Avocado 900. That can't be good, possibly that sheds light on what caused the demise of the 'Flex? Gordon | ||
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Post# 419390 , Reply# 35 2/28/2010 at 20:44 (5,163 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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Videos
I've been thinking about hooking the '70 Kenmore again. I have it off to the side since I was tinkering with the GE. I'll try to pull it back out this next week and do a comparison video using the vari-flex with a queen sheet set and a couple of towels thrown in. I will say that a sheet set alone turns over very quickly and I would imagine the additional towels wouldn't slow it down much. Tangling would be an issue with towels and sheets perhaps.
I do have the one video on youtube of my Kenmore doing a permanent press cycle and the vari-flex on one click lower than maximum. Thanks to my friend Austin down in Texas, I now have three different agitators for the Westinghouse TL that I want to do a comparison video of. The blue ramp, straight 5-vane, and the straight 3-vane. Looks like I've got my work cut out for me! Great videos of the Kenmores by the way! Jon | ||
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Post# 419403 , Reply# 37 2/28/2010 at 21:29 (5,163 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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Post# 419404 , Reply# 38 2/28/2010 at 21:30 (5,163 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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Post# 419405 , Reply# 39 2/28/2010 at 21:30 (5,163 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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Post# 419408 , Reply# 40 2/28/2010 at 21:31 (5,163 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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Post# 419411 , Reply# 41 2/28/2010 at 21:32 (5,163 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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Post# 419412 , Reply# 42 2/28/2010 at 21:34 (5,163 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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running in the background | ||
| Post# 419483 , Reply# 44 3/1/2010 at 06:59 (5,163 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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| Post# 419547 , Reply# 45 3/1/2010 at 11:34 (5,162 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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| Post# 419551 , Reply# 46 3/1/2010 at 11:44 (5,162 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
We'll probably need the suddenly unemployed Olympic Judg
It looked like a draw till the lights went out and then the mauve towel in the Swirl stayed on top, while the pumpkin one in the Flex went under.
And then the ever honest Drew revealed that the Swirl was handicapped in having towels removed which were added to the Flex in addition to MORE clothes. So the Flex is taking down a considerably larger load which the film does not reveal. We'd have to have equal loads to see the truth. Andy, the fifth pic, "Washing by the pale moonlight," is liquid ice and I love it to death. Thanks so much. Amazing. Greg, the agitator beauty pageant is fabulous. First the talent show, Andy; then the swimsuit contest, Greg. Wonderful! AND IT"S WARSHDAY IN AMERICA. Anyone old enough to remember Monday washdays? Well, I've heard about them but I wasn't really there. ;'D | ||
| Post# 419711 , Reply# 47 3/1/2010 at 20:35 (5,162 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA) | ||
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First the talent show, Andy; then the swimsuit contest, Greg
Truth be told, it's better for Greg to do the swimsuit contest than me. After all, there are young people who view this stuff, too... LOL!!!
Greg, nice choices for the backdrop. The Lady K. dryer looks just like the green 900 dryer and that stunning Kenmore 700 is the EXACT copy of the one in my video only your's looks so much better. That may change, tho, as soon as Gordon gets his hands on them... Now you have me wondering, what's the difference between that Lady K. and the 900? Gordon? RCD | ||
| Post# 419720 , Reply# 48 3/1/2010 at 21:07 (5,162 days old) by laundryshark (Cedar Rapids, Iowa) | ||
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Audio Shot?... No offense intended, but the classical music background is of no benefit to me (being 20/20 blind). Do these agitators sound differently or not?--Laundry Shark | ||
| Post# 419761 , Reply# 49 3/2/2010 at 02:12 (5,162 days old) by chromecap () | ||
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whirly/kenmore agitators Great video!! IMHO, i think WP/KM agitators were the best oscillating agitators of any maker. I think my two favorites are the original versions of the straight vane and surgilator. | ||
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Post# 419817 , Reply# 50 3/2/2010 at 11:21 (5,161 days old) by Revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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 Andy... the pix are GREAT and the video is even better! Excellent job! Thanks so much for doing this! AND the KM 900 set looks absolutely SPECTACULAR with a working light bulb in place! *drool* I say the ROTO-FLEX was moving the clothes BETTER then the ROTO-SWIRL... ESPECIALLY when you consider (by Andy's own admission) the Kenmore 900 with the ROTO-FLEX had two MORE towels in the load then the white 70 series washer with the ROTO-SWIRL did! Yes... it looked like the load was moving / rolling over THE SAME in both machines, BUT the ROTO-FLEX machine had a heavier load! | ||
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Post# 419837 , Reply# 51 3/2/2010 at 13:18 (5,161 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Kevin -
I have had much the same conclusion when I did an agitator swap comparison (per YOUR suggestion one night when we were on the phone together) in the Straight-Vane equipped 1976 Green Beast (now known simply as the G.B.). The S.V. takes up less room and moves laundry similarly to the Roto-Flex. I washed a load with a Roto-Swirl, and then rinsed it with the S.V. The Straight-Vane allowed for noticeably more room in the basket and there was more 'to the business' turn-over. BUT, Steve/Gyrafoam and PeterH770 are right too - the Roto-Swirl is superb in handling regular loads while being a bit more gentile for things that require this. In the cases of most folks, perhaps that is a better all-around agitator? My laundry is largely sturdy cottons, gym clothes, towels, knit shirts, etc. but not every household is like that. I will say that on a less than full load, which is rare for me in a standard machine, I use delicate on a straight-vane equipped machine otherwise they are absolutely brutal in the thrashing department. Water goes everywhere - it's highly amusing if you're OK with drying the machine off head to toe when done. Gordon | ||
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Post# 419846 , Reply# 52 3/2/2010 at 13:53 (5,161 days old) by Revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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Yes Gordon, I agree.... My comments above were based soley on the amount of roll-over I saw in Andy's video. Yes I also think the Roto-Swirl is a better all around agitator (and better looking too!) when compared to the Roto-Flex. So Gordon, would you like me to send you my video camera so you can record your 9 way agitator test for posterity (and us here on AW) when you do it this summer?? *wink* | ||
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Post# 419872 , Reply# 53 3/2/2010 at 15:34 (5,161 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Kevin -
I am a ways away from doing such a test, but I may take you up on the camera offer. Actually one of my good friends here runs our IT dept. at work and he always has the latest and greatest in phones, cameras, and other devices and he's made the same offer. He's local so you're probably off the hook, but I'll keep that in mind! One great hurdle to get over: deciding which machines to use. Do I use 9 different ones? That would be a hoot but also a logistical nightmare. I don't have a machine to use at this exact moment that has a drive block agitator, but that's going to change fairly soon. I also don't have a standard capacity DA machine ready. This though could change as well. If I use 9 different machines, which was my original intent, here's what I have in mind: 1965 Whirlpool - Standard Surgilator in bakelite 1980 Whirlpool LHA5300 for the Super Surgilator 196? Kenmore 70 - Pregnant Roto-Swirl. This is the biggest challenge as I have a few candidates but no finished machine yet. 1963 Lady K OR the Green Kenmore 70 that Robert gave me for the Super Roto-Swirl. 1976 Kenmore 60 for the plastic Straight Vane 1972 Lady K in coppertone for the Vari-Flex 1965 Lady K OR the Green 900 for the Roto-Flex representation 1979 Kenmore 90 TOL machine for the DA I do not have a standard machine with the bakelite straight vane, however I have a 24-inch machine with it and will install the agitator in one of the other washers, so I guess we're talking 8 different washers. Gordon | ||
| Post# 419916 , Reply# 54 3/2/2010 at 19:47 (5,161 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA) | ||
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Gordon... | ||
| Post# 419931 , Reply# 55 3/2/2010 at 20:59 (5,161 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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| Post# 419958 , Reply# 56 3/2/2010 at 23:03 (5,161 days old) by laundryshark (Cedar Rapids, Iowa) | ||
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Humble Apologies for My Lack of Patience I had to listen through the musical intro. Eventually, the awesome sounds of those classic Kenmores came into "view." Many thanks for sharing this video.--Laundry Shark | ||
| Post# 419968 , Reply# 57 3/2/2010 at 23:53 (5,161 days old) by alr2903 (TN) | ||
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I think we all took a peek, inside every Kenmore, just to see what the family had. RedCarpetDrew thank you for making the vid/ pics and the comparison, thats a lot of work. alr2903 | ||
| Post# 419972 , Reply# 58 3/3/2010 at 00:25 (5,161 days old) by chromecap () | ||
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I think the huge straight vanes would have no problem,...on top of that any surgilator...talk about tidal wave washing! | ||
| Post# 419975 , Reply# 59 3/3/2010 at 01:12 (5,161 days old) by chromecap () | ||
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Thanks to you tube...i miss how powerful these WP/KM agitators were... and i do mean the original straight vanes and surgilators were. | ||
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