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Thread Number: 27531
2012-Conventional top load washers being discontinued? |
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Post# 422464 , Reply# 1 3/14/2010 at 06:31 (5,149 days old) by tolivac  (greenville nc) |
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I can forsee a lot of ANGRY appliance buyers in the future-forced to buy overpriced front loaders,and overpriced water mizer TL machines.I will continue to buy from the swap shops-and possibly stock up on more TL BD washers.These rules are so stupid and accomplish NOTHING. | ||
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Post# 422488 , Reply# 2 3/14/2010 at 11:40 (5,149 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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| Post# 422576 , Reply# 3 3/14/2010 at 19:18 (5,149 days old) by strongenough78 (California) | ||
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Post# 422590 , Reply# 5 3/14/2010 at 20:19 (5,149 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Even Though The "Energy Star" Program
Is purely voluntary, the federal government, tree huggers and others have done such a good PR job that consumers look for that sticker.
With even more strict energy use regulations coming for washing machines, most of today's top loading washing machine designs are going to fade away. There simply is no getting around that top loading washing machines need water, lots of it to do the job. Otherwise one has laundry being beaten to death against the agitator and grinded against each other. Considering R&D costs, and the fact the market for "major appliances", has changed so much one doubts Whirlpool or anyone else is going to commit vast sums to developing traditional top loaders to meet ES standards. Not when they can make more building so so quality front loaders though loaded with bells and whistles, won't last nearly ten years, and sell them for a good profit. | ||
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Post# 422593 , Reply# 6 3/14/2010 at 20:28 (5,149 days old) by suburbanmd (Maryland, USA) |
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Consumer demand isn't the force driving energy- and wate ...it's the manufacturer tax credits. CLICK HERE TO GO TO suburbanmd's LINK | ||
| Post# 422637 , Reply# 7 3/15/2010 at 02:36 (5,149 days old) by chromecap () | ||
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Ohh please..water is continually a renewable source..especially after this weekend in the northeast:) | ||
| Post# 422638 , Reply# 8 3/15/2010 at 03:38 (5,148 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
Can't the manufacturers STILL get the tax credits for creating Energy star appliances and still add options for the consumer to decide if they want to use that option or not? Example.....Eco option......Non eco option.....Extra rinse.....or deep rinse......The option is AVAILABLE for the customer to use but they can still get the tax credit since it is still an energystar appliance. I don't get that....
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| Post# 422642 , Reply# 10 3/15/2010 at 04:03 (5,148 days old) by chromecap () | ||
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just to clarify i meant this whole water usage thing,...been raining here for 3 days now. This really sucks! | ||
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Post# 422664 , Reply# 12 3/15/2010 at 08:17 (5,148 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Can't the manufacturers STILL get the tax credits for creating Energy star appliances and still add options for the consumer to decide if they want to use that option or not? Example.....Eco option......Non eco option.....Extra rinse.....or deep rinse......The option is AVAILABLE for the customer to use but they can still get the tax credit since it is still an energystar appliance. I don't get that....
Bosch/Siemens Home Appliances comes to rescue! ;) I have to say B/S/H listened carefully to the consumer's demand to reduce cycle times. Their new EcoStar dishwasher series uses only 1.8 gal. of water by storing the rinse water and recycling it for the next pre-wash. Yet, if you want a faster cycle, select the varioSpeed option and no cycle will take longer than 60 to 90 minutes. It's up to the consumer: eco or fast. Their new washing machines are 30% more efficient than what is required to achieve an A-rating for energy efficiency. Again, you can either select the ecoPerfect option to get a super-efficient wash or speedPerfect to get your wash done fast (or don't select anything and use the standard cycle). Bottom line: these appliances are super efficient and officially rated A+ for engergy use - but if you want, you can still turn them into "modern" water hogs. Here's one of the super-efficient B/S/H washers on a Cotton Sensitive rinse cycle with Skin Care: CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK | ||
| Post# 422726 , Reply# 15 3/15/2010 at 13:42 (5,148 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth) | ||
I feel 
quite a few American members here are missing the point of the low water usage.
Its not that the water itself is in shortage but the materials used to HEAT the water. Why waste 4 X and maybe more resource to heat wash water when you only need to use a 1/4. The energy used to heat water to "Warm" in a top loading machine uses way more than what it is to heat my so called miniscule amount of water in a Euro FL to have a boil wash! Water has nothing to do with this debate only electricity gas or coal/oil that you use to heat the water to wash with. | ||
| Post# 422821 , Reply# 16 3/15/2010 at 20:17 (5,148 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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It's never bothered me about the LOW water levels for washing. I could care less about that. My problem has always been RINSING. Low water heated wash (great).....followed by more water in the rinses. At least give me a shallow or deep rinse option ( I don't mean water half way up the door)...but just more water that is used for rinsing than they use now....To me, it's just not enough. If these washers used a little deeper rinse than they do now a lot of the gunk would not build up like they do in FL's now..( at least not as bad )
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| Post# 422889 , Reply# 19 3/16/2010 at 02:44 (5,148 days old) by mtn1584 (USA) | ||
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You go my Bronx brother! Mike | ||
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Post# 422895 , Reply# 20 3/16/2010 at 05:23 (5,147 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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As another poster stated upthread, the USA federal energy program is not about water per se, but the energy used to heat said water for washing dishes or laundry.
The first salvo was fired over the bow when warm or even hot rinses were eased out in favour of cold water on most washing machines. Of course one can often work around this, as could some of the pre-set low water levels on washing machines. But apparently no files are growing on those in the DOE, and manufacturers have found ways to stop that as well. Now some states, such as California are considering or have made water use by appliances their business, owing to long and severe shortages. | ||
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Post# 422899 , Reply# 21 3/16/2010 at 06:39 (5,147 days old) by suburbanmd (Maryland, USA) |
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Energy Star is about water also If it were just about energy, we'd have all the unheated rinse water we wanted. | ||
| Post# 422926 , Reply# 22 3/16/2010 at 10:46 (5,147 days old) by mysteryclock (Franklin, TN) | ||
Have to disagree about water vs. energy
...politely, of course! In an ever-increasing part of the US it really *is* more about water than energy. Water may be a huge problem right now in your particular area but even the normally wet-and-green southeast has seen its share of drought conditions in the past few years along with some draconian water restrictions.. just ask the folks in Atlanta! And in the southWEST the situation is far, far worse. We can always MAKE more power but FINDING more water is a real problem until we can build industrial-scale desalinization plants which we really aren't doing in great numbers right now.
I've posted this image (of Lake Mead) before but it illustrates the problem pretty graphically. When people opine that "water is the new oil" they may be exaggerating today, but perhaps not so much beyond tomorrow... 
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Post# 422953 , Reply# 25 3/16/2010 at 12:50 (5,147 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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| Post# 422957 , Reply# 26 3/16/2010 at 12:58 (5,147 days old) by lebron (Minnesota) | ||
Unfortunately, this is how many Americans think:  | ||
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Post# 423012 , Reply# 28 3/16/2010 at 16:48 (5,147 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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You guys are spot-on with the water & climate statements. Ignorance can be cured though. There is an ongoing drought in China right now that has diminished drinking water supplies to 10 million people. Many areas have to depend on water that is trucked in. While this seems far away, have another look at that picture of Lake Mead. It's real and it will touch everyone. Tap water supplies in this country have always been heavily subsidized by the government (Socialism coming out of your tap!) but once the supplies of fresh water start to run dry, whatever the cause, water will be much more expensive as local, state and federal government agencies won't be able to subsidize the costs without either higher rates or higher taxes.
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Post# 423018 , Reply# 29 3/16/2010 at 17:09 (5,147 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney) |
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Here's one of the super-efficient B/S/H washers on a Cot So, if I don't have a washer with this option what happens to my cottons and skin? | ||
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Post# 423269 , Reply# 32 3/17/2010 at 19:08 (5,146 days old) by lotsosudz (Sacramento, CA) |
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| Post# 423404 , Reply# 34 3/18/2010 at 13:46 (5,145 days old) by runematic (southcentral pa) | ||
I recently finished service training on the new direct drive replacement washer.
I WILL NOT//CANNOT GO INTO TOO MUCH DETAIL SINCE THIS PRODUCT HAS NOT BEEN INTRODUCED OR EVEN HAD ANYTHING WRITTEN ABOUT IT YET. It looks like they will mostly be HE top loaders made in the USA for the "premium brands." Look for the value brands to remain DD for the next year or so as well. And NO, it's not based on anything epednableday arecay (in other words not an older DC Maytag). | ||
| Post# 423406 , Reply# 35 3/18/2010 at 13:48 (5,145 days old) by runematic (southcentral pa) | ||
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| Post# 423510 , Reply# 36 3/19/2010 at 02:15 (5,145 days old) by spankomatic (Ukiah,CA) | ||
My thoughts...
1. I am all for freedom of choice. If I want a top loader I should be able to buy one. The government should not decide that for me.
2. Water is an issue. Years back during a drought year here in California we could not do laundry at home. We were on water meters and had to save every ounce of water just for showers. We had to go to the laundromat. Rates would double and triple if we went over. 3. The rainy season is almost over here and the reservoirs should be full by now. They are NOT! 4. California needs to build more reservoirs so we would not have this problem. The growth in population has already happened here and we are not going back. 5. Some of these top loaders are just too stingy on the water for me. There needs to be some happy compromise on water levels. | ||
| Post# 423621 , Reply# 37 3/19/2010 at 16:57 (5,144 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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2. Water is an issue. Years back during a drought year here in California we could not do laundry at home. We were on water meters and had to save every ounce of water just for showers. We had to go to the laundromat. Rates would double and triple if we went over.
WOW! That's just crazy! We went through a drought here ONCE.....It was blazing hot and I don't we had any measurable rain for a month and a half...For here that's a LONG time to go without rain. I know parts of California will go months without rain and that's normal. Unfortunately they had years of drought. I heard reports on TWC that the you guys had drought busting rains this winter. I'm surprised the reservoirs are still low. | ||
| Post# 423797 , Reply# 40 3/20/2010 at 15:42 (5,143 days old) by vivalalavatrice () | ||
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Guess that WP and E'lux are waiting this patent expires. Carlo, me too!!! Staber is the neverending story of the yourself fixable machine.... never heard this either? | ||
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Post# 423817 , Reply# 42 3/20/2010 at 17:20 (5,143 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney) |
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Patents Why would E'lux be waiting for patent expiry on horizontal axis technology? They own the patent, already make the machines for the Eruopean market and could easily export them to North America and Oceania if they really wanted to. | ||
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Post# 423872 , Reply# 45 3/20/2010 at 22:30 (5,143 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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As One Sees Things
Regarding top loading H-Axis washing machines, do not think they would sell very well in the United States, and one says this after using the things countless times in France.
Once you start to go above the "small" capacity of most European TL-H-Axis washers you start to bump up against stability and design problems. For all the size of the Staber washing machine, even Consumer Reports (yeas, I know), took points off because it was almost as big as a standard top loader, but lacked same capacity. To begin to hold 121bs-18lbs of wash, one is going to have to move to perhaps the side opening "front loaders" that look like long troughs, think the F&P top loading dryer. However H-Axis washers of this variety do not have very high extraction levels, so the savings to come from less time in the dryer might not satisfy "Energy Star". | ||
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Post# 424099 , Reply# 50 3/22/2010 at 05:51 (5,141 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Speaking of Electrolux: why don't they introduce the Water Aid washer on the US market? Looks like a smart concept.
Alex CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK | ||
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Post# 424107 , Reply# 51 3/22/2010 at 07:20 (5,141 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney) |
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Speaking of Electrolux: why don't they introduce the Wat Perhaps they want to see how well it is received with Australian consumers and iron out any systemic bugs first. They may even consider re-designing the exterior as well, to appeal to the American aesthetic. | ||
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Post# 424210 , Reply# 53 3/22/2010 at 19:09 (5,141 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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COLD WATER RINSE IN THE WINTER
Heating a whole tub of rinse water 16-25 gallons from 40F to say 90F uses far more energy than the dryer heating the maybe 1 gallon of water left in the clothes load no matter if you have a gas or electric water heater or gas or electric dryer. If you have free solar hot water that may be a different matter. Modern gas and electric dryers dry clothes @ about the same speed I even know of some gas dryers where the electric counterpart is faster such as the MT HOH and the WP 24" thin twins.
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| Post# 424576 , Reply# 54 3/24/2010 at 10:42 (5,139 days old) by westyslantfront () | ||
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I sincerely hope that we will always have a choice of front loaders AND top loaders. There is no need for some government bureaucrat to tell me how to do laundry. Ross | ||
| Post# 424605 , Reply# 56 3/24/2010 at 12:57 (5,139 days old) by vivalalavatrice () | ||
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Indeed... Imagine if an A906 had an horizontal drum!??!?! | ||
| Post# 424833 , Reply# 60 3/25/2010 at 15:53 (5,138 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
Water Aid | ||
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