Thread Number: 27991
Please help me achieve whiter whites
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Post# 428452   4/13/2010 at 14:23 (5,098 days old) by hcj1440 ()        

I have the Miele w1215. When I first got it I tried the boil wash with great anticipation. (I have a bunch of little wash clothes that are gray in the middle.) The gray faded a bit, but not much. I tried it again, this time adding a goodly amount of oxiclean in addition to Tide HE powder. Again, it made a small difference but did not come out stain-free.

What did I do wrong? Or am I expecting too much? Are these wash cloths doomed to dinginess? I have been dreaming about whites like my mother-in-law has with her old Miele in Sweden for 5 years, hope it is possible for me too...





Post# 428467 , Reply# 1   4/13/2010 at 15:50 (5,098 days old) by Somonica ()        
whiter whites...

60C cotton wash + level 3 rinses + Persil megaperls white...

anything else are compromise! ;)


Post# 428474 , Reply# 2   4/13/2010 at 16:13 (5,098 days old) by favorit ()        

Holly,
you did it right, boiling water is the only way, LCB is useless ... it's just that "old" body oils on terry towels, washcloths and pillowcases are the hardest soil to remove, it takes some boilwashes

Once I had to boil in a pot on the hob a old white pillowcase that had gone yellowed. I had boilwashed twice it with kitchen towels and tablecloths. These came out spotless, but the yellow shade was still on the pillowcase, but I was out of garments to boilwash so i cooked it "a la Persil" on the hob for about one hour. Finally it worked


Post# 428610 , Reply# 3   4/14/2010 at 00:15 (5,098 days old) by ultramatic52 (Mexico City)        
Whitest whites!!!

Hi. Add a cup of white vinegar to the main wash, this will help to remove all of the grey, use the longest cycle available, try not to use Tide. When I changed it for Purex there was a great difference, I donŽt know why is it that Tide being one of the most popular and expensive detergents get clothes grey or yellowish. What IŽve also used here in Mexico is to boil a white bar of soap called Zote, and the water is what I also add to the wash. If using a front loader, I most use a very low quantity of soapy water since it will make lost of suds. IŽll describe what gives me excellent results every wash. I have a Samsung Silver Nano front loader. I use the sanitize Cycle with prewash, heavy soil, extra wash, hottest water seting and 2 rinses + silver nano ions option ON. This makes up to 2:38 hours for the cycle. In the prewash I use Ariel or Purex about 2 table spoons, then for the main wash 2 table spoons of Ariel or Purex + 2 table spoons of Vanish powder + Boiled Zote water 1/2 a cup (You put the bar in a cacerole and add some water just till it covers the bar, then put it to boil and as soon as it starts to boil turn fire off, and let it rest for about 5 min and youŽll get white water, this takes places, during the prewash, you keep the leftover for the next wash, the bar doesnŽt have to finish in the first boil, I use it about 20 times before I need a knew one)and a cup of white vinegar. Sometime youŽll get too much suds at the beggining, but let the washer run and the suds get lower, and let the cycle finish. I get really white clothes after each wash.

I hope this works and itŽs not too complicated.


Post# 428625 , Reply# 4   4/14/2010 at 02:23 (5,098 days old) by Irishwashguy (Salem,Oregon.............A Capital City)        
Hello there, I turn things white with a boil wash all of the

irishwashguy's profile picture
My first suggestion is not to use Tide anything for a boil wash. Tide is really hard on your washer and all of its components.Plus most American detergents are really not low sudsing enough for a Miele. If you use detergents of anykind, with a Miele, LESS IS MORE!
Second, What I use is A scoop, One/eighth of a cup of SA-8 Amway or Persil, Faks is a good inexpensive one. I have even done this with the Ecover, this is a European detergent made in Belgum made for Boil washing in a European washer. Take this with Calgon water softener one/eighth, and finally, 20 mule Team Borax one eighth. I would then set it at 190 soak, with sensative setting just for good measure. Sometimes when you have had clothes that have been washed mutiple times and then dryed, it is natural that it is going to take a few Boil washes for them to look perfect. I usually will start a soak like this before bed.When I get up, I put it in the dryer, and Whitest Whites. Remember, what you need more than anything, is time, temp, and mechanical action. If you set it on Sanitize/Soak/Extended/Sensative/, you will have a program that will say a little over four hours, this is what I would do for your setting. try it, and let me know how it goes.


Post# 428632 , Reply# 5   4/14/2010 at 03:11 (5,098 days old) by favorit ()        
vinegar during main wash is a NO NO

detergents are alkalins, vinegar is an acidic.
It weakens detergent action.
Not a case acids (eg peracetic acid) are used in commercial laundries **during rinses** to remove all the alkali
and many people use vinegar as a fabric softener

Ritchie, IMHO in this case the soak is just a waste of time, cause it is not a protein stain.

On the contrary I find the soak very helpful on kitchen towels and tablecloths: food stains are "softened" and made easy-to-remove by the soak). I usually run colorfast tablelinens and cloths on permapress 60°C with waterplus/sensitive and soak



Post# 428648 , Reply# 6   4/14/2010 at 07:41 (5,098 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
Always pre-wash whites first in coolish to warm water (100*F /38*C or below) to avoid setting the protein stains and to get rid of the bulk of the dirt.

THEN continue with a boil wash. For whites you MUST rinse the heck out of them or the detergents and chemicals will make them dingy.

And for TRULY clean cothes you will stop using waxy softener. Period. That stuff is just a coating of wax/grease/oil and stink that has to be removed in the next wash.

I do use some cheap watery softener (supermarket brand pink or yellow stuff in the gallon jug / i.e. 3.78L) in the FIRST rinse such that it will de-suds and get rinsed out by the end of the wash cycle/programme!

Vinegar after this is not a bad idea IF your machine does NOT have a porcelain tub/basket!

The last rinse (or last few) rinses should always be WATER ONLY, IMHO!


For a REAL clean add phosphates to the wash and pre-wash!
(NOTE: I believe this stuff fades bolds and brights; use on whites and pastels,IMHO)


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Toggleswitch's LINK


Post# 428649 , Reply# 7   4/14/2010 at 07:43 (5,098 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        
I womder where the yellow went?

toggleswitch's profile picture
BTW phosphates over time helped me rescue yellowed and stained whites that now look like they were bought a week ago!

Post# 428688 , Reply# 8   4/14/2010 at 10:37 (5,097 days old) by Bernina (Chicago)        
OP: do you use bodywash or liquid soap with these washcloths

It seems like some ingredient in these bath products causes grey stains that are very difficult to remove.

There has been a long discussion in Garden Web Laundry Room Forum on this topic, you may want to take a look.

Hope this helps!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Bernina's LINK


Post# 428689 , Reply# 9   4/14/2010 at 10:39 (5,097 days old) by Irishwashguy (Salem,Oregon.............A Capital City)        
Fav and Tog, you have a good point

irishwashguy's profile picture
That is not a bad suggestion. Pre wash does help a great deal.

Post# 428728 , Reply# 10   4/14/2010 at 13:07 (5,097 days old) by hcj1440 ()        
Wow thanks for all the tips & what does Borax do?

I will try Irishwashguy's routine tonight -- but with Ecover and no Calgon (already have soft water). Actually, don't have Borax either but I could run to the market and get a box... what does Borax do?

Bernina -- indeed, we do use a shower gel on these wash cloths, I fold the cloth in quarters and squirt shower gel on, then scrub down my grubby toddlers. When I unfold the (clean/washed) wash cloth, the gray stain is in four patches -- one in each quadrant, exactly where the shower gel goes. Good to know the cause and honestly, I can live with the stains. It was just frustrating to see other people posting about their fantastic boil wash results and not having the same results for myself -- it is strangely comforting to know that these are a particularly difficult type of stain.

Pre-wash & soak: I have tried the soak and I always select pre-wash already.

Persil/not Tide: I have not bitten the bullet and bought Persil. I use Ecover on our clothes; I think I will try the towels with Ecover since I already have it on hand and can do it as soon as I get home tonight. I also think I just have to fork over the $75 and buy that giant box of Persil from my local fancy laundry appliance store, I must try it for myself one of these days despite my skepticism.

Softener: not part of my laundry routine -- mostly because I didn't feel any difference after using it. I tried the Ecover brand after seeing rave reviews for it on cloth diaper forums (where laundry is a frequent topic!).

Vinegar: I used it for a while (in my GE with stainless tub) but since getting the Miele have not used it. I'm afraid to hurt my baby (the Miele :).



Post# 428840 , Reply# 11   4/14/2010 at 19:31 (5,097 days old) by eddy1210 (Burnaby BC Canada)        
Persil

eddy1210's profile picture
Once you use Persil Holly, you will be amazed. It's all I use in my Miele's.

Post# 428847 , Reply# 12   4/14/2010 at 20:07 (5,097 days old) by Bernina (Chicago)        
Persil for under $75

I know, $75 is way too much for me to spend, on something I can't return. With my luck I'd be allergic and it would give end up giving me hives or something.

I just got a $30 Amazon gift card for filling out a supplier survey at work, so I used it yesterday to buy a box. yay! (I'd been wanting to try Persil for a l o n g time but I couldn't ever bring myself to pay even $45 for a box, so this was my *perfect* opportunity.)

With my gift card it was $13 (with free shipping) for a 45-load box of Megaperls. Should arrive Monday, and I can't wait to try it!

I did see a $19.99 (18-load) bag on Amazon. Here's a link to it.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Bernina's LINK


Post# 428848 , Reply# 13   4/14/2010 at 20:14 (5,097 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
IMHO one must always pre-wash BEFORE a soak!

Remember (American?) detergents can only hold soils in suspension for a about half an hour. One wants to flush as much dirt as possible down the drain BEFORE soaking, or the yuck/muck from the armpits and the crotch areas will end up on the clenaer parts of the clothes if not properly/ sufficiently suspended in the water/degergent mix.


Post# 428860 , Reply# 14   4/14/2010 at 20:45 (5,097 days old) by favorit ()        

>(American)"detergents can only hold soils in suspension for a about half an hour"

Toggles, that's why they buy Persil, no matter of that crazy price.
To have a clue the 25 load bag of Dixan Classic Gold regular powder here is 5.39 euro ( 7.35 USD )

As Dash/Ariel here aren't second to Persil/Dixan as for cleaning performance, I can't get why P&G doesn't upgrade Tide HE to its euro counterparts


Post# 428910 , Reply# 15   4/15/2010 at 01:08 (5,097 days old) by spankomatic (Ukiah,CA)        

spankomatic's profile picture
I use Echo's free and clear HE. Then I add 1 Tide stain release booster packet. Nothing else. Hot water wash/warm rinse. The Tide stain release did make a difference.

Jim


Post# 428929 , Reply# 16   4/15/2010 at 05:40 (5,097 days old) by hcj1440 ()        
Boil wash with Ecover results

I did a load of towels tonight with a healthy scoop (1/4 cup?) of Ecover -- soaked 2 hours and then on sanitize cycle at 95C. It's in the dryer now so I want to check it again when it comes out, but *preliminary* look coming out of the washer seems to have the shower gel stains mostly gone -- far more than previous attempts with Tide. Thanks for the tip on "not Tide" as I never considered that Tide wasn't formulated to work at the higher temperatures. I would never have guessed that Ecover would work better than Tide at stain removal (since Ecover doesn't do that well on protein stains for me in my general laundry).

Persil purchase: Thanks Bernina for the link! Never thought to look on amazon for detergent. I ordered a box of regular/"ultimate" powder and a color megaperls -- looking forward to trying them. I saved half my dingy gray wash cloths to wash with Persil to see how much better it is. Also, just want to add that I am feeling considerably less skeptical about Persil now that I saw Ecover working better than Tide.

Favorit: seeing the prices in Europe is making me consider just how crazy I would sound if I asked my sister-in-law to bring me detergent when she visits from Sweden later this year... but I guess it's not nice to take up room/weight in her suitcase to save me $20!

pre-wash before soak: wow did not know any of that. I don't soak often but when I did, I rarely soaked with *any* type of detergent -- I thought I was just loosening up the dirt. Good to know for future reference, thank you.

Tide stain release: haven't tried that product yet -- have always been so wary of Tide fading colors. Guess that wouldn't matter on whites!!


Post# 428942 , Reply# 17   4/15/2010 at 08:09 (5,097 days old) by Bernina (Chicago)        
Good old fashioned "Biz" works really well, too, for

Has enzymes and activated oxygen bleach.

It does have optical brighteners so you shouldn't really use it on dark colors.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Bernina's LINK


Post# 429006 , Reply# 18   4/15/2010 at 12:55 (5,096 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)        

peterh770's profile picture
When I first got my Miele, I too was unimpressed. But one day I was in a rush and didn't want to wait 1:47 for the cotton program, so I used the 55 min fine/delicates program (high water level, regular speed tumbling). The results were noticeably brighter! Best I can figure is that my clothes needed the high water level wash to flush everything embedded out. Once everything went through this, it has been fine.

Post# 429019 , Reply# 19   4/15/2010 at 13:20 (5,096 days old) by suburbanmd (Maryland, USA)        
Only hold soil in suspension for half an hour

Do you know this from experience, or did someone tell you, or did you read it somewhere (where?).

Post# 429048 , Reply# 20   4/15/2010 at 15:53 (5,096 days old) by hcj1440 ()        
Hmm... stains still there

The Ecover boil wash didn't work after all. When I took everything out of the dryer, I realized the wash cloth stains don't seem to have changed. I guess it just looked less pronounced when it was wet.

I'm going to save them for when the Persil arrives and see how that does...



Post# 429057 , Reply# 21   4/15/2010 at 16:42 (5,096 days old) by favorit ()        
never tumble dry or iron left stains

otherwise the heat will set them in

Post# 429061 , Reply# 22   4/15/2010 at 17:08 (5,096 days old) by hcj1440 ()        

They've been through the dryer so many times, I think it's pretty much permanent at this point!

So much the better challenge for the Persil??? ;)


Post# 429066 , Reply# 23   4/15/2010 at 18:04 (5,096 days old) by favorit ()        
Persil actic power ....

Wow, I just discovered we too have also our own Persil Actic Power,
but in Italy they don't dare to claim it washes @ just 15°C. Nobody would go lower than warm no matter

Dixan Action Power


We had not enough Dixan versions yet ;) . Classic Dixan :



regular Dixan Lavender :



Dixan Eucalyptus ... Vicks Vapo Rub and detergent all in one ! ;) :



There are also the colour version (hopefully just one scent), the "active ash" version and the talcum powder scent version .....
Here Megaperls were discontinued round ten years ago, as they didn't catch
As for Vernel there are too many scents and also a useless so-called "powdered fabric softener" aka Vernel Crystals


CLICK HERE TO GO TO favorit's LINK


Post# 429396 , Reply# 24   4/17/2010 at 10:08 (5,094 days old) by dogboy44 (Los Angeles)        
TSP

Find some TSP - there are a few places that still sell it. Strips the grey out. Use a cup (more or less depending on your machine) on a hot wash and any extra soak setting you have. I have had great success with this.

Post# 429411 , Reply# 25   4/17/2010 at 10:58 (5,094 days old) by surgilator_68 (Maryland)        

surgilator_68's profile picture
The general rule of thumb is that it will take as many washes with proper detergent and water temp to get the gray stains/oils/residue out of the clothing, etc as it did to get them there in the first place.

Use hot water, good detergent(I've always used Tide)and add some phosphate to the wash.

They will get white again but it will take time.


Post# 429466 , Reply# 26   4/17/2010 at 15:16 (5,094 days old) by Irishwashguy (Salem,Oregon.............A Capital City)        
Persil does work the best as well asn the SA-8

irishwashguy's profile picture
That has been my expierience. Even at the lower temps, which I as well as everyone has tried. Trial and error. Even at 140(hot) it worked.Sometimes, even with a good detergent, you should pre-treat. I washed a load on sanitize,granted it was a big load of white sheets and towels, and one of my favorate shirts. When the stain did not come out of my shirt, I put pre treater on it, and presto! My favorate 12 year old shirt is totally white again. I have found that some things get whiter everytime it is washed. It nay take a few times; depending on how many times it is washed and dried. When I first bought my Miele, it was time to see what it could do.

Post# 429504 , Reply# 27   4/17/2010 at 18:07 (5,094 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
~Only hold soil in suspension for half an hour
Do you know this from experience, or did someone tell you, or did you read it somewhere (where?).

This was from an old laundering guide. I think it was by Maytag. Sent away decades ago with a SASE (self-addressed stamped envelope) and a few dollars.


Post# 429527 , Reply# 28   4/17/2010 at 20:27 (5,094 days old) by Irishwashguy (Salem,Oregon.............A Capital City)        
When I wash things

irishwashguy's profile picture
I guess I aproach it with soaking. My machine has only one setting for a soak.This is two hours. I will admit, I will look in on the load to give it my best guess. Before I had a soak, I would put it in a bucket overnight. So some expierience, however,I am open to learn myself if something works better. I Love to do laundry, I want to keep getting better at it. :)

Post# 429532 , Reply# 29   4/17/2010 at 21:51 (5,094 days old) by aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa)        

aldspinboy's profile picture
Steve how long do you suppose a pre wash in minutes please ?







Darren k.


Post# 429573 , Reply# 30   4/18/2010 at 03:50 (5,094 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
Dixan

mielerod69's profile picture
I have been using Dixan Multicolor liquid in my Miele W 3985 and I must say its one of my favorite detergents at the moment for coloureds. There is an italian supermarket in Melbourne which sell lots of italian washing detergents. I have Perlana (Perwoll) and its great on my wollen jumpers and the smell is great. I have also used Dash powder for the whites. They don't have Dixan powder yet. It reminds me when I was in Italy and my grandma would swear by Dixan. I have also Miele CareCollection detergents as well, they all work great also and rinse out very easily as they contain no zeolites and the smell is not very strong.

Post# 429608 , Reply# 31   4/18/2010 at 08:47 (5,094 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
Most pre--wash settings I have seen are 4 to 5 minutes in duration. Not longer.

A good fast spin afterwards (not mandatory) also helps remove more muck/yuck!


Post# 429643 , Reply# 32   4/18/2010 at 12:42 (5,093 days old) by Irishwashguy (Salem,Oregon.............A Capital City)        
Pre wash

irishwashguy's profile picture
A pre wash can last anywhere from 10 min to 20 min depending on the program. Ten min minumum.

Post# 429653 , Reply# 33   4/18/2010 at 14:02 (5,093 days old) by jasonl (Cookeville, TN)        
Togs

So you add detergent to the prewash, and then another to the soak cycle and then another to main wash? I'm guessing using less as you go?

Also, what if you're a loser (like me) and can't do a boil wash? Use hot water? I'm trying to figure this out too with getting the yuck off the wash cloths and towels. I know the Oasis is a good cleaner. One of it's cycles (Whitest Whites) does a prewash and a main wash. I can add a soak if possible but I will need to add detergent as it goes through the cycles.

As I remember on the Kenmore 800 there was a switch for automatic prewash/presoak/main wash. If you flipped it on, it will run through all the way. If you flipped it off (LOL), it will stop at the end of each so you can add more soap.


Post# 429671 , Reply# 34   4/18/2010 at 16:44 (5,093 days old) by favorit ()        

Jason,
that's why Miele uses the same water of the main wash to soak. the manual suggestes to use the automatic soak option rather than the prewash : to save water detergent and power. With the soak option engaged it fills, tumbles for round ten minutes heating water up to 85 °F, then sits soaking, with 3 tumbles every 10 minutes up to two hours. then it starts the main wash with the same water (regular tumbling patterns, heat up to target temp ...)
In my novotronic one can choose the soak OR the prewash, NOT both of them in the meanwhile


Post# 429829 , Reply# 35   4/19/2010 at 07:53 (5,093 days old) by rudin1969 (Italy)        

The new Mieles with the Stains option carry out an automatic 'intensive soak' when you select some of the stain types (e.g. oil/fat etc.). It's more intensive than the traditional soak as tumbling takes place every minute or so. The duration of this phase depends on the type(s) of stains selected. The wash temperature is also increased by a few degrees depending again on the stain type

Post# 429901 , Reply# 36   4/19/2010 at 11:45 (5,092 days old) by westyslantfront ()        

My recipe for whites that glisten is:

Turn on washer with HOT water. As it is filling, add bluing and chlorine bleach.
If you can get detergent with phosphates such as Mexican detergent, or purchase sodium tri poly phosphate from the
chemistry store online.

Then your whites will glisten.


Ross


Post# 429905 , Reply# 37   4/19/2010 at 12:17 (5,092 days old) by favorit ()        
The OP has a self heating euro frontloader

So toploader tips don't apply in this case.

Also adding LCB while filling is not the best idea : chlorine weakens the detergent and viceversa, no matter of front/top/side/anywhereloader :)

Not a case commercial laundering has a wash bath, then a bleach bath on already partially rinsed items



Post# 429906 , Reply# 38   4/19/2010 at 12:23 (5,092 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
As it is filling, add bluing and chlorine bleach.

iheartmaytag's profile picture
Do you really want bleach and bluing in the same bath?
I thought that bluing should go in the rinse, as it will react with the detergent and bleach. Has me Mum been wrong all these years?



Post# 430275 , Reply# 39   4/20/2010 at 21:14 (5,091 days old) by hcj1440 ()        
OP checking back in

I love how much I'm learning about laundry here. Favorit, you are an incredible fount of knowledge. I think I'll use my newfound ability to customize my Miele options to shorten the soak from 2 hours to 1 hr (or maybe even just 30 minutes) and use that instead of prewash to save water and power. Never even thought of that before reading it in your post.

Still waiting on the Persil powder to arrive. My plan is to try that first, and if it doesn't work on those pesky wash cloths, will try some of the other suggestions here.

Questions:
1) What is TSP? (My inexpert googling is yielding a lot of non-laundry related terms...)
2) And SA-8?


Post# 430280 , Reply# 40   4/20/2010 at 21:38 (5,091 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
~Turn on washer with HOT water. As it is filling, add bluing and chlorine bleach.

Bluing and chlorine in the wash will counteract each-other!
Both will hinder detergents.

A quick warm to cool prewash of no longer than 5 minutes does WONDERS for cleaning perfomance! Dont forget to drain and spin, THEN go to a soak or main wash!

Yes Jason less detergent as you go. Add phospates to LONG soaks and to the main wash. May not be so crucial on a QUICK prewash unless the stuff is mega-dirty!


And remember bluing just counteracts the yellow (yellow+ blue = white). FAR better to get the yellow out due to its true, root cause....improper laundering and/or insufficient ineffective detergent without phospates,lack of sufficient rinsing.


Bleach simply removes color, disinfects and takes the ultra-violet specturm of light and makes it visible. So it does makes whites LOOK whiter in light that contains an ultra-violet component.

Here is what I do to wash my whites in a front-loader.
(The normal cycle is a wash and 4 rinses).

Prewash in warm with POWDERED detergent and phophates. Drain. Spin. POWDERED DETERGENS ARE FAR SUPERIOR TO LIQUIDS. {Try SEars brand powder. Cheap and unbeatable! Rinses clean!)

Begin normal wash cycle with HOT water and detergent and phosphates.

Add bleach to first rinse (this is done automatically in Frigidaire brand front-loaders via their disensers).

Add cheap supermaket-brand watery pink or yellow softener(in the gallon jug /3.78L) to the scond rinse.

Add white vinegar (ONLY TO MACHINES WITH PLASTIC OR STAINLESS-STEEL TUBS-- NOT PORCELAIN-- to the third rinse. This is a sour rinse with an acid that will neutralize all prior chemmicals to form salt + water. (Acid + base/alkaline => salt + water). This prevents the bleach residues from eating your clothes during and after the washing process.

Leave 4th rinse clear of chemicals.

Reset machihne to "SHORT WASH" [or equivalent] (My Frigidaire fornt-loader).

NO CHEMCIALS for three pure water rinses and a fast spin.

A word to the wise NEVER EVER EVER buy cheap/inexpensive bleach; it will eat your clothes. NAME-BRAND ONLY NOT BRAND "X"


Post# 430281 , Reply# 41   4/20/2010 at 21:44 (5,091 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
In a top-loader:


Prewash with warm, 5 minutes Add detergent and phophates. drain. spin.

Wash with hot water, detergent,phosphates. Add bleach in last 5 minutes.


First rinse. Use Bluing OR cheap watery softener OR white cinegar(IF YOU DON'T HAVE PORECELAIN).

2nd rinse: MANDATORY to flush away chemicals and bleach.
and to prevent graying /yellowing residues. NO ADDITIVES AT ALL.


And remember LONG soaks with bleach accomplish nothing but getting you clothes EATEN.


Post# 430282 , Reply# 42   4/20/2010 at 21:48 (5,091 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
If you have both a front-loader and a top loader.
Wash as directed in the panel I wrote (that novel in) for front-loaders.

Pre wash cycle
main wash cycle

Instead of three more clear rinses in a front-loader, transfer clothes to a top-loader and do spray-rinses and a deep-rinse, followed by a spin.

You cant beat these results IMHO without a boil-wash.


Post# 430283 , Reply# 43   4/20/2010 at 21:53 (5,091 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture

~What is TSP? (My inexpert googling is yielding a lot of non-laundry related terms...)


A form of less-chemcially stable phoshpates for cleaning your driveway.


The laundry form of phosphates is STPP Sodium tri-polyphosphate.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Toggleswitch's LINK


Post# 430284 , Reply# 44   4/20/2010 at 21:59 (5,091 days old) by favorit ()        

Thanks Holly :)

SA 8 is a detergent line sold by Amway (a door-to-door sale company)

sodium tripolyphospate (STPP) "is widely used in regular and compact laundry detergents and automatic dishwashing detergents (in powder, liquid, gel and/or tablet form), toilet cleaners, surface cleaners, and coffee urn cleaners [3]. It also provides a number of chemical functions including: sequestration of "water hardness", enabling surfactants to function effectively; pH buffering; dirt emulsification and prevention of deposition; hydrolysis of grease; and dissolving-dispersing dirt particles"

The downside is that the waste water containing STTP is a nice food for algae that cause eutrophycation of fresh waters. For this reason it has been banned.
In Europe is has been substituted by phosphonates : these are photodegradated by sunlight, so avoiding the algae issues


CLICK HERE TO GO TO favorit's LINK


Post# 430286 , Reply# 45   4/20/2010 at 22:06 (5,091 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
Trust me darlings.

The maternal unit is a germ-freak where dirt is her personal enemy.

The father is a OCD case with Aspergers.

Believe me, I know dirt and how to get rid of it!

There was no such thing as "too much work" for a desired reult,and no such thing as "the easy way out".

Here, BTW is my boil-washer, a large pot dedicated to my underwear! Did wonders to get rid of tons of yellow before I was informed of a source of phosphates.

YEAS pre-wash in machine first before doing a stove-top boil-wash! You will need tongs to remove clothes


Post# 430335 , Reply# 46   4/21/2010 at 07:46 (5,091 days old) by favorit ()        
elastics and boiling water ???

Toggles, don't you damage them ?

Usually elastics can't survive temps higher than 140 - 160 °F


Post# 430336 , Reply# 47   4/21/2010 at 08:07 (5,091 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
I never said I had white briefs/boxers or socks.........

I boil my T-shirts!


Post# 430346 , Reply# 48   4/21/2010 at 10:10 (5,090 days old) by favorit ()        
ahhhhhh ...

... mystery solved ! :)

Post# 430392 , Reply# 49   4/21/2010 at 14:54 (5,090 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
I REALLY want a 220v Euro boil-washer (for my whites) and a matching Euro electric condenser dryer.

Without starting a war:

Is it a job for Miele?, Asko?, Bosch AEG? or _____?
GO EASY!


Post# 430622 , Reply# 50   4/22/2010 at 22:43 (5,089 days old) by gmmcnair (Portland, OR)        
My Own Recipe for White Whites

gmmcnair's profile picture
Hot water, Sears Ultra plus detergent, some 20 Mule Team borax, and a sunny day to let them line dry. :)

Post# 430630 , Reply# 51   4/22/2010 at 23:50 (5,089 days old) by favorit ()        

Toggles,
stay away from AEG ... in the last decade Electrolux dropped down a lot AEG built quality. I'm afraid it will be marketed in north America with premium prices and you'd get far less for what you'd pay.

Miele apart from the canadian W1612 and commercial 24" washers doesn't sell anymore any brand new washer that reaches 203°F.
Yet there are still around W19XX machines coming from salesfloors (220 V and boilwashing)

Bosch/Siemens guess doesn't sell any 220V machine there ...

ASKO is the only one. My only concern is they have PC boards made by ELMARC, the very same manufacturer who make boards for Ariston machines ......those who own a Ariston-Hotpoint know what I mean

So I'd buy a 220V Miele or a mechanical timer ASKO on craiglist


Post# 430652 , Reply# 52   4/23/2010 at 07:23 (5,089 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
molto grazie!

Post# 430653 , Reply# 53   4/23/2010 at 07:24 (5,089 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
~Hot water, Sears Ultra plus detergent, some 20 Mule Team borax, and a sunny day to let them line dry. :)

Excellent. The sun does bleach white beautifully!




Post# 430728 , Reply# 54   4/23/2010 at 16:20 (5,088 days old) by hcj1440 ()        
New 220v Miele's available at...

Hi Toggle,

I bought my 220v Miele recently... and they seem to have a few left. It came factory sealed -- not a floor model. They also have Miele condenser dryers.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO hcj1440's LINK


Post# 430750 , Reply# 55   4/23/2010 at 19:22 (5,088 days old) by hcj1440 ()        
OP's Persil results

Persil has arrived via UPS. I tried the universal powder on the wash cloths -- soak, sanitize cycle, extra rinse. No dice. I'm not being very scientific but my *impression* is that the stains lightened about the same amount as with Tide.

Doing a load with Persil megaperls color right now on colored clothing. Looking forward to seeing how that comes out. Would be nice to have a detergent that cleans without me having to pre-treat, but doesn't fade colors. Have high hopes for this one!

Will try sunning the wash cloths this weekend if the weather cooperates. Sun has worked great for me on tomato/carrot-based stains, but usually hasn't done much for me on other types of stains, so I'm curious to see how the gray wash cloths do.

Question: does Persil have STPP? Just wondering if I need to purchase separately to try it. I don't like the idea that it promotes algae in our streams etc and would prefer the European photo-degraded version.


Post# 431163 , Reply# 56   4/25/2010 at 21:50 (5,086 days old) by aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa)        

aldspinboy's profile picture
Toggs i will try your formula on tuesday raining tomorrow and working late but stay tuned.






Darren k.


Post# 431478 , Reply# 57   4/27/2010 at 00:15 (5,085 days old) by surgilator_68 (Maryland)        

surgilator_68's profile picture
The problem won't go away in one wash. It's going to take many, many washings to get back to the way it should be.

It's like going to the therapist. It takes many visits there, and it will take many washings to get the laundry back to normal.


Post# 431620 , Reply# 58   4/27/2010 at 20:24 (5,084 days old) by westtexman (Lubbock, Texas)        
Dear OP -

I am with Toggles on the stove-top boiling. I love German Persil, and I use it with STPP on whites and have BRILLIANT results in my front loader.

HOWEVER, I also use white wash cloths and have the same problem with the grey spots in the middle. This is due to body washes. The ONLY way I have been able to get them clean is to BOIL them on the stove for several hours with STPP and some Sodium Percarbonate. I don't use detergent in this load, and I wash them after boiling them.

Even then, not ALL of the grey comes out of every cloth, but it still does a great job nonetheless.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!


Post# 431695 , Reply# 59   4/28/2010 at 09:21 (5,084 days old) by hcj1440 ()        
Summary from OP

:) The truth of surgilator's words are slowly sinking in (will take many washes to get stain out). There seems to be some progress with every wash and on some I have to look a second time to see the stains. Was a fun experiment for me to see the effect of different detergents on the gray spots. I think my conclusion is that Tide (with Oxiclean added), Ecover and Persil universal powder performed so similarly that I could not tell the difference. Persil did turn some spots blue so maybe it will do something different over time.


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