Thread Number: 28074
Whirlpool's mistake
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Post# 429688   4/18/2010 at 17:58 (4,614 days old) by supersurgilator (Indiana)        

Not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but I am really disappointed in Whirlpool. I have a 1983 Spin drain Kenmore and when it shifts into spin, it makes a terrible bang like noise (I'm not talking about the clutch engaging either). ANyway their machines that were made in the 90's and until 2007 didn't make this noise. I was checking out videos last night and the 2009 Whirlpool as well as the Maytag Centennial vids that I looked at, both of these machines make this horrible noise again. I wanted to get a new Whirlpool, but not now, I hate that noise (mainly from bad experience from ours. Does anybody know what part it is that makes that noise, and why their new models would start making it again?
This links shows the banging noise (nevermind that the machine is doing a drain in spin LOL)


CLICK HERE TO GO TO supersurgilator's LINK


Post# 429689 , Reply# 1   4/18/2010 at 17:59 (4,614 days old) by supersurgilator (Indiana)        

This video shows a early 2000 model which doesn't make this noise when shifting gears.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO supersurgilator's LINK


Post# 429690 , Reply# 2   4/18/2010 at 18:01 (4,614 days old) by supersurgilator (Indiana)        

This is a vid of the new Maytag cenntennial which now makes that banging noise when shifting gears.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO supersurgilator's LINK


Post# 429698 , Reply# 3   4/18/2010 at 18:44 (4,614 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
The first video, the reason why it stopped spinning during the middle of the spin cycle is because it (1) wasn't doing a neutral drain, but was spinning while it drained, which it isn't supposed to do, unless it's a very early direct drive model, which it could be. The problem (2) is that it's no longer pausing long enough for the coupler to reconnect after it's impropoerly spin/draining. and when the machine shuts off, that loud bang that you hear is the coupler engaging before the rpms of the motor have slowed down enough. THAT is a verry normal noise and my 1986 Lady Shredmore did that same noise when the coupler engaged before the motor slowed down enough like it was supposed to, but it didn't do that on every spin by no means. Also, the lound bang could be something related to the transmission, which siomeone more techniical here is ogiong to have to address. That same bang could also be something in the transmission that weakens over time and prevents it from doing a continued neutral drain (like my Shredmore did) and soon after it starts draining, then it makes that "bang" as it also begins to spin. That's a noise from the transmission. OK DD experts elaborate on this please.

Post# 429752 , Reply# 4   4/18/2010 at 22:44 (4,614 days old) by surgilator_68 (Maryland)        

surgilator_68's profile picture
Bob: What coupler is there that has to reconnect with anything?

Bruce: If you want to keep your Kenmore put a transmission in it.

The newer machines are supposed to have a lighter weight oil in them which in turn makes everything slide in and out of position easier and with less load on the motor, lowering amp draw.

At some point the machinery for manufacturing the transmission parts was worn and the tolerances were out of spec. This caused various problems for some years. Supposedly manufacturing overhauled the tooling machines and brought everything back into spec. I will admit we have not seen the failure rate that we were seeing since Wpl bought Maytag which is around the time the transmission tooling overhaul happened. So with that information I can surmise that the new transmissions, while noisy are just fine. It's just the lighter weight oil letting things move around easier.


Post# 429769 , Reply# 5   4/18/2010 at 23:37 (4,614 days old) by vintagesearch ()        
omg

the 2nd video is our kenmore! how i forgot i had those videos online that account is old in any event speaking of draining spinning ive noticed if our washer (the kenmore 2nd vid) in the 1st drain if its sudslocked it kicks into spin drain regardless of setting or loadsize! is that by default? when we use something thats lower sudsing never an issue i just advance the timer if it clicks into spin drain to the spin portion since i always use the fabric softener dispenser....its been a good machine overall

Post# 429895 , Reply# 6   4/19/2010 at 11:14 (4,613 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC)        

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Maybe I'm missing something here, but the 1993 DD Kenmore I have makes a pretty loud 'pop' as the motor turns off just prior to it re-starting for spin. Mine has never been quiet in that function and I figured it was supposed to be that way? I got it new as a scratch-n-dent machine. It saw very limited use 1993-1997 (like maybe two-three loads a month) then saw regular service for two years in 2006-2008, so it is certainly not worn yet. In fact, when I put it back in service in 2006 I did some of the first back to back loads with it and could smell a 'new smell' as the motor warmed up.

Unless I'm missing something, that pop sound during the preamble to spin seems normal to me.

Gordon


Post# 429938 , Reply# 7   4/19/2010 at 14:12 (4,613 days old) by rll70sman (Hastings, Minnesota)        
This is normal!

The "clunk" is the motor coupler engaging the transmission into the spin mode from neutral drain. It is nothing to be alarmed about, just characteristic of direct-drive Whirlpool transmissions. Granted, it's peculiar in its sounds, but Whirlpool has produced this operating platform for nearly 30 years and has done a pretty good job to boot.

Post# 429942 , Reply# 8   4/19/2010 at 14:18 (4,613 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

The clunk noise is a normal part of the transmission shifting from neutral drain to spin. The 2nd video cited above does make the clunk, but it happens at the end of neutral drain when the motor is coasting to a stop. Notice that the basket shifts into spin at that moment and rotates slightly with the motor and tranny's remaining inertia. It's already fully shifted to spin when the motor restarts which is why the clunk doesn't occur then.

There may also be a clunk/bang sound when the brake engages/disengages as in the 1st clip. That machine is definitely having a mechanical problem in regards to spin not resuming.


Post# 429946 , Reply# 9   4/19/2010 at 14:29 (4,613 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

And our 1993 Whirlpool TOL set makes that same clunk (only a little bit louder) when it goes into spin. Our pump during the neutral drain sounds exactly like the one in the video.

Post# 429963 , Reply# 10   4/19/2010 at 16:22 (4,613 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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I didn't notice at first ... in the 2nd clip, the machine isn't fully drained when spin starts, thus the lethargic acceleration.


Post# 429985 , Reply# 11   4/19/2010 at 17:51 (4,613 days old) by surgilator_68 (Maryland)        

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The bang is normal.

The motor coupling does not engage anything. It is not designed to slip or engage or disengage. It merely couples the motor to the transmission. There are 3 fingers on each half of the coupling which mate to the rubber in the middle. There is not supposed to be any play, slipping or excessive movement between the 3 parts. If there is then the coupling is worn and needs to be replaced.


Post# 430007 , Reply# 12   4/19/2010 at 19:22 (4,613 days old) by rll70sman (Hastings, Minnesota)        

I stand corrected in my verbiage. There is definitely nothing to be worried about, as the others here have stated. But, if you're going to buy another machine that is reasonably priced, stick with the Whirlpool family of brands.

Post# 430234 , Reply# 13   4/20/2010 at 17:12 (4,612 days old) by supersurgilator (Indiana)        

Ok I think you guys are on to something. Yeah, I'm not talking about the bang of the spin clutch engaging. Is there a reason why on some machines the clutch engages when the motor coasts down and on others when it starts to spin? I found that the ones that don't make the obnoxious noise are the ones that are engaging the clutch during the motor wind down.

Post# 430379 , Reply# 14   4/21/2010 at 14:27 (4,611 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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I doubt there's anything specific can be done to control the noise. As others have told you above, including a working service tech, the variations are normal ... probably related to temperature/consistency of the transmission oil, wear-in of parts, and individual machine characteristics. In my experience with several neutral-drain specimens, the same machine may sometimes shift into spin "early" during the pause coast-down, and sometimes not. The clunk/bang noise may be prominent at times and less-so at other times. It's no different than the infamous grrrrrkk sound of a belt-drive wag-wag shifting, which may be quite noticeable in some cases and less-so in others depending on how far the wig-wag moves from the moment the solenoid energizes until the pin engages in the cam bar slot.


Post# 1159377 , Reply# 15   9/12/2022 at 09:46 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
whirlpool/maytag thread revival

Sorry. I don't mean to revive this thread, but when did whirlpool go to a lighter oil? The maytag commercial energy advantages on my dorm does this too.

Post# 1159378 , Reply# 16   9/12/2022 at 09:52 by luxflairguy (Wilmington NC)        

THEN WHY DID YOU?

Post# 1159392 , Reply# 17   9/12/2022 at 13:49 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
because...

The Maytag Energy Advantage machines at my dorm does that loud clunk when it stops draining and I assume it was still relevant, knowing they (whirlpool) did the same thing. I assume whirlpool used heavy oil before they took over Maytag. And yes, they do that loud clicking during agitation too.

Post# 1159404 , Reply# 18   9/12/2022 at 17:06 by maytaga806 (Putnam, Michigan)        

When any direct drive washer slips into spin during the drian cycle, at the end of the drain cycle itíll shut off the motor and the tub will slow down to a full stop. Then, when it turns the motor back on it re-engages and thatís the loud clunk it makes. This clunk will not occur going into the actual scheduled spin cycle UNLESS the machine slips into spin during the drain, a few users highlighted the mechanics of that well. My 1996 does it 247 and I cannot stand it. It makes me cringe everytime it happens, which cannot be good for the transmission. This machine takes 20 minutes of high speed agitation before the trans oil is warm enough to allow a normal neutral drain to happen, Iím not going to overwork my motor so I only set it to the appropriate wash times per cycle. This was such a common error in the mechanics behind the direct drives and so many people think itís totally normal for these machines to spin drain which itís not, itís just a common problem. Our 2007 Whirlpool DD began slipping into spin within the first two years we owned it as a kid, unbelievable.

Also, to those with a DD that slips into spin you need to be very cautious when using softener and adding it to the cup on the agitator. Letís take a step back and remember what happens when it slips into spin, itíll completely stop at the end of the drain cycle then it will click into regular spinning resulting in the fabric softener being dumped by it coming to a complete stop following the end of the drain cycle, which means as it clicks into regular spin all of that softener has just been released and will be drained out of the machine leaving none left for the purpose of it during the rinse cycle. Always keep that in mind when using softener, I always have to advance my timer to rinse after it slips into spin to avoid from stopping and going into regular spin and wasting product. Softener is not cheap anymore. They price it as liquid gold.


Post# 1159419 , Reply# 19   9/12/2022 at 19:44 by chetlaham (United States)        
DDs Spin Draining

chetlaham's profile picture
Is very common, sometimes since day one.


In fact I originally had no clue that DDs neutral drained. They very first DD I ever got to study and take apart was from the mid-80s and made to spin drain right out of the factory. The latter model DDs I happened to use or encounter spun drain despite the 4 second motor pause in between. This lead me to think it was normal which put me in really embarrassing situations with repair techs and sales people. I remember on more than one occasion a salesmen on the Sears floor would tell me about the benefits of Kenmore's neutral draining and I would correct him saying they most certainly did not. He told me they did, and I would drone on about the pump being attached directly to the drive motor, that there was no separate drain pump, no actuation solenoid or hydraulic timing plungers in the transmission, that he had never actually taken one apart like I have... Given that personal experiences have lead me to believe people aren't always right in their world view or conducive to the equality of others the debates would get quite passionate LOL. Its embarrassing to think about how I was wrong and became all worked up over a disagreement. I went as far as once emailing Sears their manuals were wrong lol.

It was not 5 years latter that when I read about the neutral drain gear that I actually con considered the possibility, with personal confirmation coming latter.

Between 2007-2013 I swapped several DDs- 2 used and one new, all 3 would go into spin-drain on the first spin when using the delicate cycle.


@Maytaga806: I would call this a blessing. It does not bother the transmission, just increases wear on the clutch. Whirlpool should have beefed up their clutches instead of shifting to a concept that is not only hit or miss but reduces performance while causing scum build up inside the machine.



Here is a DD spin draining during the cool down and first spin, as I think all DDs should :)







Post# 1159426 , Reply# 20   9/12/2022 at 22:16 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
the clunk I'm talking about...

is when the draining stops, then it restarts the motor for the spin cycle. As for agitation, sometimes the sound of the double knocking is pronounced, others it's not. So, this leads me to believe that whirlpool used a lighter oil, or used barely any at all, instead of completely filling the gearbox with 90w oil from the factory. So much for maytag energy advantage built by whirlpool using synthetic transmission oil.


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