Thread Number: 28827
Miele washers that fail because of 1 broken component
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Post# 439732   6/5/2010 at 07:17 (5,046 days old) by Wasmachineman ()        

The Triac on the motherboard, Known failure in older miele machines from the W7XX series, Anyway Here is what happend, I was driving to the local supermarket, When i was on my bikecycle there, I drived beheind a appliance store, Then i drived the corner around, What i see, 5 miele w7xx series washers, All wont start anymore, Scrapped for 1 f***ing thing on the motherboard? Jesus.
Complaint: Miele uses bullsh*t quality electrical components back in the 80's/90's.
Subcomplaint: The imago of the brand was seriously damaged then.
Here is the post in dutch at the FOK!Forum:


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Wasmachineman's LINK





Post# 439750 , Reply# 1   6/5/2010 at 10:30 (5,045 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Please pardon my ignorance. Are you saying that the part does not exist to fix the machines?

Post# 439756 , Reply# 2   6/5/2010 at 10:55 (5,045 days old) by Hoover1100 (U.K.)        
I did hear soemthing about some Miele's of this era havi

But considering these machines are now 20 years old, even if the motherboard has gone in them, 20 years is a long time for "bullsh*t" electronics to last.

I'd suspect if the motherboards in these machines failed prematurely, they would have been replaced already if the machines are only being scrapped now. A lot of the machines you saw were most likely scrapped because of some other fault or because the owner "fancied a new one" (hate that excuse!)

I think this issue was solved years ago, so I doubt any machines with the faulty part are still going without it having been replaced.

Despite this I'm sure these machines are considerably more reliable than most machines around today!

Matt


Post# 439793 , Reply# 3   6/5/2010 at 14:15 (5,045 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Several Things Come To Mind

launderess's profile picture
Miele's call out charges are quite high, as are replacement part prices. For a machine >15 years old owners may have gotten the line most Miele USA repairmen/techs give me when summoned to work on my unit, "get a modern machine".

Many Miele techs and repair persons have the view that after a machine reaches a certain age, things are going to start going, and one should carefully compare costs before putting money into an aging machine.

Next, there is the chance that the part is no longer in stock by Miele. IIRC, Miele only promises to stock parts for about 20 years, after that...

There are one or two persons who offer to repair Miele mother boards in the EU. You send them your damaged part, and they either repair or send you a "new" one, that is one they have already repaired. From what one has read on other boards, many are that well pleased with the service.



Post# 439795 , Reply# 4   6/5/2010 at 15:04 (5,045 days old) by Wasmachineman ()        
Please pardon my ignorance. Are you saying that the part doe

It does, But is expensive.

Post# 439796 , Reply# 5   6/5/2010 at 15:19 (5,045 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Case In Point

launderess's profile picture
My Miele is of about the same vintage, and now only spins at one speed, 900rpms. Had Miele service out and he thought it was the pump and or speed switch, so replaced both, and still the machine won't spin on high. Finally ditched that repairman and had one sent directly from Miele's VP of service office who stated the problem is probably something to do with the motor. Sadly such a repair cannot be done in home on these units as the tubs have to come up and out to get at the motor. Cost of repair? Easily >$1,500 USA, and that is just for labour and transporting. If the machine needed a new motor that runs about the same, however brushes are much less.

While one loves this vintage machine, am not sure spending nearly 2K to repair a nearly 15 year old machine is worth it, especially when one put that money into a new Miele for nearly the same price. So for now have learned to live with one spin speed and see what if anything will go next.

As another poster stated, getting about 15 or 20 years out of a machine without major repairs is something, so often many think they've gotten their money out of the older unit, and just buy new. Have to say Miele seems to have less trouble out if it's mother boards than some other washers.


Post# 439809 , Reply# 6   6/5/2010 at 17:25 (5,045 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
Launderess

foraloysius's profile picture
IIRC your Miele is a W1070. That machine must be older than 15 years. I have a Miele of a newer generation (W715) and that machine is already 19 years old. I believe your machine was built between 1982 and 1989, probably a bit later than 1982. That would make your machine around 25 years old.

Post# 439814 , Reply# 7   6/5/2010 at 18:27 (5,045 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
EEKKK!

launderess's profile picture
Well that explains quite allot! *LOL*

Am actually looking into purchasing either a new W3033 or 48XX series Miele to take some of the pressure off the old gal.

Also while one does like the fact the 1070 uses lots of water, it's the 5kg rated capacity is wanting sometimes. I mean there are times one wishes to plough though say several sets of sheets in less than four or more hours.



Post# 439817 , Reply# 8   6/5/2010 at 18:54 (5,045 days old) by Irishwashguy (Salem,Oregon.............A Capital City)        
Wow! 25 Years old!

irishwashguy's profile picture
I have my W 1213 that I bought in 2004 Dec, and have had good service from them so far. I use my machines A lot. When my dryer started squeaking about a month ago, I called Luwa dist, a Miele Distributer for the Northwest, and yes it is a belt.It does not always make noise. When they told me what it was going to cost,makes me want to take a crack at it. The man at Luwa told me that I might want to let them do it reminding me that there are electronic components that you must be careful of. With the entire bill being 201.aprox, so they said, Do people work on their own Mieles? Incodently, The new W-3033 are really nice machines. They can now plug directly into the wall. They have a top temp of 170F, 6K, and really from having mine, they are very intuative . I had a load that it added a rinse right in front of my eyes.The only thing that I would change about my washer is that you can only start it from the start and no place else. There are also the Little Giants. They do what a Miele washer and dryer do on the domestic side, and do it faster.Plus more flexable program options. They have a top temp on it of 203F. It does require its own 220 for each, they are 30 amps.They can also be run continually. They come in Stainless steel and look slick and hold 6.5K. I have looked at a set for my laundry business.

Post# 439841 , Reply# 9   6/5/2010 at 21:30 (5,045 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

My original Miele had the spin part of the motor die. It was very sad because the machine looked like new and was beautiful AND had a timer dial. A new motor was going to cost more than half the cost of a new machine and that was without labor. The machine used older technology. It rinsed in two changes of water before even attempting a little bit of a spin. It did more spinning after the third rinse then did real spinning after the 4th rinse.

Post# 439852 , Reply# 10   6/5/2010 at 22:08 (5,045 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Miele USA Doesn't Really Advertise The Fact

launderess's profile picture
But they do perform the larger repairs of Miele washers, such as the 10XX,19XX and such series that require motor,motor brush, bearing repair and so forth at their main offices in New Jersey.

As one noted from other European websites, such work most always requires a way to raise the tubs and that cast iron cradle of of the machine, thus the use of a winch or some sort of heavy duty equipment, none of which is likely to be found in most homes and apartments. Cost is a flat $1,500 or so just for transportation, labour and parts are extra, unless of course part of warranty repair.

In the EU and UK, DIY work on Miele unit is very popular, and parts are easily had in most cases from the shops as we do with our American brands. Guess most persons either have or know someone who does have the required equipment, much less the space.

The motor on my washer is also cast iron, IIRC and is quite beefy.

Nine times out of ten when speaking with anyone at Miele they will try to talk one out of having older machines repaired. Even the local service supervisor told me off for wanting to keep a machine that "wastes so much water".

IIRC, the 1918 series had some sort of design fault or problem with their bearings or something in that area. This caused some units to fail before they should have, and perhaps that is the reason Miele USA has the "bearing replacement" workshop.

Rinsing:

These older Miele units were designed to rinse as much froth and detergent away (via dilution of several rinses), before even attempting a spin (the first is only after three rinses and then only for thirty seconds), mainly due to fear of suds lock and stressing the motor.

When washing a heavy load say of bath linen, was advised to use the machine at half capacity as modern thick and thirsty towels hold so much water that at the first spin there can be too much water. In this case my unit simply slows down, but often you can hear the motor and pump getting a workout trying to cope with all that water.

Also think because "boil washing", or at least very high temperature washing was still the norm when these models were introduced, Miele designed the washers to bring down the temp of the wash to decrease the risk of thermal creases. Spinning a load of laundry right after a 200F wash cycle is probably going to put in some wrinkles that no amount of subsequent rinses or ironing will remove.

To be fair,many older Miele washers use their brushes at such a low rate it could very well be >12 years or longer before they require changing, if at all. Often the machine will be junked long before the brushes need to be changed.

Parts on the 10XX series washers and probably their matching dryers are becoming hard to find in the USA. Miele no longer imports supply, and once whatever is in the warehouse is gone, that will be it. This was according to Miele Parts when one had to order things for my unit.


Post# 439869 , Reply# 11   6/6/2010 at 00:22 (5,045 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        
I mean there are times one wishes to plough though say sever

ronhic's profile picture
Er, Launderess....

Your Miele should be more than happy coping with at LEAST 2 sets of QS sheets and 4-8 pillow slips without even blinking at it...

My old 4kg Hoover used to hold 8 single bed sheets and would easily hold that....


Post# 439873 , Reply# 12   6/6/2010 at 00:40 (5,045 days old) by Wasmachineman ()        
IIRC your Miele is a W1070. That machine must be older than

IRRC the W715 was made til 1993, The building started in 1988.

Post# 439878 , Reply# 13   6/6/2010 at 01:13 (5,045 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

The difference in handling extraction between the W1918 and the W1986 is amazing. The W1986, with a sophisticated solid state control can ramp up to speed very slowly if the load is something like towels that hold a lot of sudsy water without having to stop to pump out water and in the cottons cycle the first spin after the wash is somewhere between 800 and 1000 rpm, if the load is balanced enough to permit full spin speed, not much slower than the max of 1200. There must be interaction between readings of drum speed and the load on the pump motor, but beyond that, something in the design of the 1986 enables it to spin at higher speeds while pumping out the water extracted from the fabrics. The 1918 can do short bursts of spin to avoid suds locks, with periods where the drum stops to enable the pump to pump out the water, but the bursts of speed are with the full force of the motor, not the slow acceleration possible in the 1986, The 1918 obviously does not have the motor speed control technology of the newer 1986.

Post# 439882 , Reply# 14   6/6/2010 at 02:10 (5,045 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
IRRC the W715 was made til 1993, The building started in 198

foraloysius's profile picture
Yes, I know that. But the machine Launderess has is of an older series.

Post# 446357 , Reply# 15   7/2/2010 at 12:48 (5,018 days old) by Wasmachineman ()        
he 1918 series had some sort of design fault or problem with

Same with the WT745, w718, W8115, And other prehistoric w7xx'es.
Also with kick.


Post# 446383 , Reply# 16   7/2/2010 at 15:00 (5,018 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Cannot Speak For Anywhere or Anyone Else, But

launderess's profile picture
From what one sees Miele USA isn't *that* bothered about older laundry units, especially anything before the 19** series, and even then.

Miele's tech support seems to have changed, and it is pretty hit or miss when it comes to quality of service, especially when contacting them about older units.

Service calls are the same as less and less Miele trained repairmen have experience with "older" units. Methinks the marching orders from the top down is to suggest customers purchase new, rather than making most repairs, especially those that are labour intensive on vintage units. The oft quoted response is "the unit is *old*, why bother fixing it when something else will likely go...".

At least in the EU there is a large DIY market, and consumers can purchase parts for Miele repairs off the shelves. This is not true in North America. Also EU has a wealth of repairmen not just those from Miele (whose call out charges are near highway robbery in any language), who are familiar enough with the machines to do the work.

Being as this may, quality wise, Miele seems all over the place in general. There are reports of newer models needing repairs within their first year or so, while machines >20 keep chugging along with only minor faults, if any.

Will be interesting to see where Miele ends up as they try to increase their North American market share. Bosch, another well respected German laundry appliance name, seems to have fallen off their game upon switching production to the United States for the NA market. Their early "Nexxt" series has a major bearing design defect FWIU, this means units on average aren't lasting ten or so years.




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