Thread Number: 29110
Spider Corrosion, And Foul Odors, In Front Load Washers |
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Post# 445535 , Reply# 6   6/29/2010 at 12:46 (5,021 days old) by passatdoc (Orange County, California)   |   | |
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Is OxyClean supposed to be bad for aluminum spiders? Or only liquid chlorine bleach? I've also read that softened water is bad for aluminum spiders. |
Post# 445580 , Reply# 8   6/29/2010 at 15:03 (5,021 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)   |   | |
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I have ordered STPP (Sodium Tripolyphosphate) from chemistrystore.com a few years ago - I do see they have citric acid for sale at $7.97/2lb Jar, $21.81/7lb Pail - not including shipping. Even with shipping costs, it would be cheaper than the $1.65 for one tablespoon of "Perfect Brew!"
CLICK HERE TO GO TO joe_in_philly's LINK |
Post# 445630 , Reply# 9   6/29/2010 at 18:14 (5,021 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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This has been discussed many times on this site. Anytime you have a smelly washer either TL or FL you aren't using it correctly, you are not getting clean clothes out of it either. Use hot water always in low water use machines. Bleach has nothing to do with corrosion of the spider, in fact it helps clean the machine and reduce the gunk build up on the spider and other parts which will extend the life of the washer. It generally should not be necessary to clean the inside of washers and dishwashers if they are being used correctly even in hard water areas you do need to use the correct amount of cleaning products to do the job at hand.I have rebuilt thousands of washers and have noticed no problems with corrosion in washers where the customers that use a lot of LCB. Please note all TL washers have important aluminum parts that are exposed to water usually the tub mounting parts and we have seen association with LCB damage.
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Post# 445654 , Reply# 11   6/29/2010 at 20:15 (5,021 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Put your washer together and run a load through the complete cycle using the recommended amount of LCB then dissemble and recheck the results. Putting a drop of full strength bleach will corrode aluminum but thats not a fair test. LCB will kill you if you drink it full strength yet its safe to drink @ the proper dose for disinfecting water. Your test is not valid unless done under actual use conditions. As stated in the last post I have far more experience with this matter plus I have all the major appliance manufactures on my side. You would have to do a trial with at least 100 washers over a 5 year period 1/2 with LCB and 1/2 with out and show the results before I would give your theory any credibility.
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Post# 445670 , Reply# 12   6/29/2010 at 21:00 (5,021 days old) by surgilator_68 (Maryland)   |   | |
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Bleach has minimal if any effect on the aluminum parts when diluted. I have seen far more broken and failed spiders, corroded and disintegrated hubs, drive blocks and pumps in machines that have NEVER seen so much as a drop of bleach. Preventing corrosion has more to do with proper dosage of detergent and proper water temp. That is why detergents contain corrosion inhibitors or machine protectants.
For over 23 years we have serviced and supplied the machines both top and front load home use equipment for a medical facility that uses more than 3 cups of bleach in each load. Each machine on average washes 8 loads a day, every day. That comes out to 547.5 gallons per year. The average life of the machine is 5 years which comes out to 2,737.5 gallons over the life of the machine( if my math is correct). Not one of these machines was replaced due to any aluminum failure and they all have aluminum parts. |
Post# 445739 , Reply# 14   6/30/2010 at 04:43 (5,021 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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I know someone who has a 2001 He3t (or one of the early Kenmore He machines) not a frigemore.....At any rate, their washer has only had a pump replaced and so far, that's it. I use bleach in mine (just a small amt for whites) the dispenser doesn't allow for a lot anyway. A gallon of bleach lasts me for a LONG time...No smell at all in my washer. I hope it lasts 5 more years
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Post# 445741 , Reply# 16   6/30/2010 at 04:49 (5,021 days old) by sudsman ()   |   | |
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or to excess raw bleach will damage anything.. So just what did you expect? |
Post# 445952 , Reply# 17   6/30/2010 at 22:13 (5,020 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)   |   | |
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--- if I remember correctly,theirs were made of porcelain on steel.Not aluminum. I could be wrong.I never remember any of the front loaders I saw growing up and had,once I could grab them,having any aluminum parts.Even cast aluminum.I know that the maytags (Helical and Dependable Drive Trannies were made of a galvinised pig iron.Sort of similar to cast aluminum but a bit stronger.
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Post# 446081 , Reply# 19   7/1/2010 at 12:48 (5,019 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Nor are those who make front loaders ignorant of them, just seems by and large they aren't interested in changing.
However thelater might be, in defence can say that probably the cost of using "commercial" quality materials would drive costs out of limits. Commcercial front loaders seem immune from the effect you seem to have discovered, and they are subject to much more intense concentrations of chemicals and over much longer daily duty cycles than domestic units. However by and large all commercial front loaders are designed to be rebuilt/repaired, including replacement of the spiders, so perhaps that is why one seldom hears of problems in that arena. CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK |
Post# 446143 , Reply# 21   7/1/2010 at 16:43 (5,019 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)   |   | |
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Post# 446219 , Reply# 26   7/1/2010 at 21:22 (5,019 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Limey the corrosion on your spiders is more of a hard water build up from using to little detergent. Neither of the spiders you showed us have experienced any type of failure. Your machines had water seal failures which allowed water to ruin the bearings. The seal failure was likely caused by the reasons I stated in the first sentence. I have worked on more than 60,000 major appliances and continue to work on more than 3000 per year. As stated before all washers have major parts made of aluminum that are exposed to water. Dry parts can not corrode water and oxygen are necessary heat helps, washers used a lot will have a much greater chance to corrode. Every US seller of machines recommends the use of bleach in thier machine. I have not generally noticed that manufactures recommend using thier products in a way that is harmful to thier life. Chuck all MT washers have aluminum gear cases they are not exposed to water but the tub mounting stem is.
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Post# 446262 , Reply# 29   7/2/2010 at 03:55 (5,019 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)   |   | |
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Hello David, interesting thread, various views!!!
In your first paragraph you stated:"Even after the fastest spin small quantities of water will remain on the shaft and towards the centre of the spider. Any recesses in the spider close to the centre will aggravate this situation. This water will contain very, very small quantities of laundry aids used, soil from the laundry and chemicals from the ‘tap’ water." I would offer another solution to the "Very Small Quantities theory".... One of the biggest issues is the overuse of Plant Based Fabric Softener, which from the last rinse, in heavy concentrations is then sprayed by the spin action all over the outer drum resulting in the spider being coated, and there lies the problem, that along with the use of Liquid Detergents containing no bleach and cold or low temp washes!! Combine this with water energy efficiency guidelines, no hot water or maintenance washes and your ensuing build up of gunk continues!!! allowing all types of reactions to take place with said metals!!! Through my job I`ve visited the P & G technical testing facility and have talked and observed testing methods, again giving my viewpoint from what I see and hear about from customers, family & friends and my own laundry practices. The observation of machine testing that I have seen(IMHO) & I will ask the teccy guys to confirm, is that the machines being tested are used and rotated for use, ie. not used continuously and therefore (given the temps in the testing labs) would have been allowed to dry out etc, (although I would need to confirm levels of dryness given water in sump areas and humidity reaction!! ) Now these banks of machines are from the manufacturer promoting longevity in their machines!!! |
Post# 446263 , Reply# 30   7/2/2010 at 03:57 (5,019 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)   |   | |
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Post# 446265 , Reply# 32   7/2/2010 at 04:24 (5,019 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)   |   | |
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Post# 446269 , Reply# 34   7/2/2010 at 05:28 (5,019 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)   |   | |
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Hi David, and welcome to the club from over here!!!Where you born in UK & emigrated to Canada?? unfortunatly no Hotpoint washers are made in the UK anymore, (washers where produced in Llandudno, North Wales) along with any other manufacturer!! yes those copper Creada spinners where the mainstay of UK laundry appliances...
Take your point about the water in your specific machine, what we are experiencing here is overuse of conditioner which produces a frothy foam all over the outer drum and boots etc and so will tend to stick on surfaces longer than water would, combine that with hair, skin & oils etc and improper rinsing, overloading and not using the machine properly , then all combine to give odours and slime!!! You`ve intrigued me now about the "Doors Closed", will ask the tec guys as it could be H & S or perhaps they are trying to replicate mould growth issues etc!!! I wonder if other machines in eastern countries have similar issues?? Cheers, Mike |
Post# 446324 , Reply# 36   7/2/2010 at 11:05 (5,018 days old) by limey ()   |   | |
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To Hoover 1100 Thanks for picking that one up it should be Hotpoint Aquarius, my apoligies. I don't know what my sister was or was not doing only that she told me she had dumped it because of 'the smell'. |
Post# 446499 , Reply# 37   7/2/2010 at 20:39 (5,018 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)   |   | |
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...never had a washing machine smell of anything nasty, musty or mouldy (1994 Australian Hoover electra front loader/2001 Blomberg 1301 front loader/2005 zanussi electrolux front loader/2006 zanussi westinghouse front loader)
The hoover is still going strong at a mates, the Blomberg we sold with our flat in the UK and both the zanussi machines are going strong too....one at the coast and one in daily use here. None of them smell at all....you can stick your head in the door and all you can smell is 'clean' and neither have: - my sister (Fisher and Paykel top loader/Simpson top loader); or - my mother (1968 simpson solid tub fluid drive/1989 ASEA front loader/2008 Fisher and Paykel front loader) Now given my father is a builder and brother in law a motor mechanic, their machines have seen some 'dirt'....it literally boils down to: - Good detergent - airing the machines out by leaving lids/door open - warm washes - no chlorine bleach (just not in the Australian mind set compared to nth America) - MINIMAL use of fabric conditioner I defy anyone to have a smelly machine if the above is followed from new.... Though, a thought. The vast majority of Australian and European machines are located in areas with good natural light - kitchens, bathrooms and dedicated laundry rooms....especially when compared to garages and basements.... I wonder if this could have anything to do with it? |
Post# 446901 , Reply# 42   7/4/2010 at 11:44 (5,016 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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98% of the time the seal is the cause of the bearing failure. This is true of all washers top loading included. The old saying that water is the root of evil in machine things couldn't be more true with washers, dishwashers and ice machines and water heaters for that matter. As the guy in SD said the bearings are strong enough for a front wheel of a car, its not overloading or even the amount of use that leads to most failures. The condition you saw where the shaft had become undersized I think was also caused by moisture in that area. I have also noticed this but when all new parts are used they fit well and thier is little likelihood that the shaft would turn inside the bearing unless the bearing was rusting and starting to turn hard.
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Post# 446934 , Reply# 44   7/4/2010 at 13:19 (5,016 days old) by surgilator_68 (Maryland)   |   | |
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While this topic does provide many different points of views I certainly can not agree with bleach causing damage. I do agree that bleach CAN cause damage when used improperly for soaking, not rinsed from the machine or in too strong of a concentration.
However the examination of one or two machines is not a true scientific method for making a determination of cause and effect. That would be like saying everyone with a runny nose has a cold because you were talking to one or two people with a runny nose who told you they had a cold. You then go home and look online to find out that cold symptoms include a runny nose, so now everyone with a runny nose has a cold. That is totally ludicrous. While you may have seen one or two machines exhibit corrosion on a part does not completely negate the hundreds and even thousands of machines that have been rebuilt, restored and repaired by various collectors and professional appliance repair technicians. Nor does it negate the decades of testing by the various manufacturers. The problem with picking a machine from a scrap pile, from the for sale list or off the side of the road that has bad bearings or a broken spider or a bad mounting hub, etc is that you do not personally know the history of that machine. You do not know how much of what detergent was used, what water temps were used, etc. You can surmise what has caused the symptom or failure only after you have had experience dealing with those issues first hand and knowing where the machine came from and the habits of the previous owner. No, I will not take your word for how your machine was used. You obviously have an agenda and therefore I believe, like most who have an agenda, will omit important facts. That is human nature. As I said in an earlier post, I have seen far more machines present with aluminum failures that have never seen one drop of bleach. However those machines were also used with the incorrect amount of detergent along with improper water temp. I can only make this statement KNOWING 100% how these machines were used by having a continued relationship with my customer and knowing their habits. After seeing the same thing over and over again, a pattern develops and then one can make the assumption that a particular failure is the result of X. Does that mean that ALL failures of this sort can be attributed to X, no it does not. But when one observes a high rate of failure or a machine exhibits a common problem, history and knowledge will tell you that it is most likely due to X. Is it scientific, no. But I have the experience and knowledge of seeing this problem on various machines of differing age on a regular basis. Therefor I can say beyond a reasonable doubt that is is not caused by B, rather it is caused by X. Bearings do not simply fail on their own accord. There must be a contributing factor. Not enough lubrication, contamination from water or dirt. I have NEVER seen a bearing fail on it’s own accord. Every single time I have seen a ball bearing fail in a front loader it is due to water entry caused by seal failure. Every single one was used on cold water, was crusted in mineral and mold build up. Not once have I seen one fail for no apparent reason. The same holds true from any top loading machine. Water entry or lack of lubrication. I do not believe that any manufacturer would put an undersized bearing in their machine. This is not the invention of the wheel. Bearings have been around for a long time in various forms and manufacturers have been testing various methods and products for decades. You seem to enjoy stirring the pot for your own agenda and have no real, first hand long term experience in the matter. Until you get that, I suggest you stop spewing forth your regurgitated, half baked thoughts and ideas on the matter. It is people like you who really have no knowledge on the subject that give the rest of us and the products a bad name. |
Post# 446975 , Reply# 45   7/4/2010 at 16:23 (5,016 days old) by limey ()   |   | |
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To rohic Glad you have all positive stories. If it works for you, I say keep it going that way; never mind what I or anyone else says. Good Luck Regards |
Post# 446985 , Reply# 47   7/4/2010 at 17:10 (5,016 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)   |   | |
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The whole purpose of this forum is to share....and to LEARN..
The reason I posted my comment above was as an example of something that is proven to work - here and in Europe. Nobody is saying you have to do any or all of the suggestions, but it would be a foolish person who comes on here with an issue and then proceeds to be dismissive, argumentative and more than a little trite without at least accepting that there is a great deal of knowledge and general good will being put forward trying to solve, what is afterall, your problem. |
Post# 447032 , Reply# 52   7/4/2010 at 19:54 (5,016 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)   |   | |
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Post# 447404 , Reply# 54   7/6/2010 at 13:31 (5,014 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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I see on that spider in the first instance, most of the corrsion is around the hub area. That would be the highest area of stress. Aluminum like that has small microsized cracks or folds to it. As the spider turns under stress the "corrosive factor" whatever it is can enter the aluminum under the flexations it goes through. Once in there , in the cracks, it will not dry out between loads but being between two aluminum surfaces now could set up a galvanic action locally like a small capacitor.
That I think is why you see the corrision around the hub and not the arms, the stress on the arms maybe low enough that the flex isn't great enough to let the "corrosive factor" in. That only explains locale not reason for corrosion. If it was just drops of bleach reaching the spider and drying then the corrosion pattern would be random ALL OVER the aluminum on the spider. Its not. As to your shaft and its rusting that is water entry pure and simple , water being the only factor needed there. I have not seen the physical layout of this machine nor how the seals actually fit or work but with my experience I would wager one of two things happend 1) the seals were not fit carefully at the factory, or 2) the seals failed due to undue flexing of the shaft or gunk build up against the rubber components. Either way the seals admitted water to shaft and bearings. Bearings if fit properly and sealed properly have a long life, ie: my 1957 Duomatics are original. |
Post# 450473 , Reply# 57   7/19/2010 at 10:54 (5,001 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 450868 , Reply# 62   7/21/2010 at 07:59 (5,000 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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I went by my local Lowes store yesterday and checked out the new Bosch washers. Both the full sized 4500 and 3300 models have dispensers for LCB only. The 24" compact model was still the old style and did not have the dispenser. Bosch seems to be coming around to what every else already knows that LCB will actually extend the life of FL washers. Machines that have a high temp wash [ over 150F] should not have LCB in the heated wash water that will give off unpleasant fumes and may damage electrical control parts of the machine. It has nothing to do with the spider corroding. Unless some new relevant information is found on this issue I am signing off on this topic.
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Post# 450900 , Reply# 64   7/21/2010 at 11:39 (4,999 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 451099 , Reply# 68   7/22/2010 at 09:52 (4,998 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)   |   | |
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But my May-Pool FL'r doesn't dispense bleach in the wash where the HOT water is, it dispenses in the first rinse which is tap cold. Thus it doesn't interfear with enzyme detergents and is not exposed to the HOT water and heater where fumes would be more prevelant.
I am being careful with bleach in my new machine, because I gave more for it than I did my first car and I want it to last. I also bought an extended warranty. |
Post# 451249 , Reply# 71   7/23/2010 at 07:50 (4,998 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)   |   | |
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Post# 451274 , Reply# 74   7/23/2010 at 10:40 (4,997 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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More evidence that LCB actually extends the life of the washers, I don't know where these stupid rummers about properly using LCB in washers is going to cause great harm to the machine. P S try to get your money back on that extended warranty unless you have money to burn they aren't worth it. The average machine that starts out with an extended warranty is thrown away years earlier than machines that don't have these rip off plans.
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Post# 451277 , Reply# 75   7/23/2010 at 11:22 (4,997 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)   |   | |
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Post# 451707 , Reply# 81   7/25/2010 at 00:03 (4,996 days old) by surgilator_68 (Maryland)   |   | |
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And if you were to actually ask the people who had suffered the spider failure how the machine was used I can almost 100% guarantee you that it was with cold water, not enough detergent and/or the wrong detergent and little to no bleach. But I highly doubt you would get an honest answer.
As I said earlier there are machine protectants in the detergent. If you don't use the proper detergent in the proper amount for soil level and water hardness then the machine will not be protected. This IS a fact, IS documented and has been the RULE for decades. It really is not difficult to understand. People are just too stubborn and too cheap to follow directions. The manufacturer is not going to tell you to do something that is going to cause damage to their product. I really don't think drying out has anything to do with the situation. If there is mineral build up around any part of the machine that touches the seal it will abrade the seal. Mineral build up also acts as a wick. |
Post# 451714 , Reply# 82   7/25/2010 at 01:02 (4,996 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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I have always used LCB in my Duet. The dispenser holds a very small amount, once diluted in the 1st rinse it's not very strong. Then adding two more rinses it's almost all/if not all gone. I think it's too little concentration to do any type of damage. If you were to put a cup of bleach in each time, the yeah.
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Post# 451888 , Reply# 84   7/25/2010 at 19:42 (4,995 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 457909 , Reply# 92   8/19/2010 at 04:00 (4,971 days old) by sudsman ()   |   | |
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And that is ALL it is your view! |
Post# 457945 , Reply# 96   8/19/2010 at 10:09 (4,970 days old) by bobofhollywood ()   |   | |
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It comes down to leave the door open. Either you will or you won't. |
Post# 458063 , Reply# 97   8/20/2010 at 01:16 (4,970 days old) by alr2903 (TN)   |   | |
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Bobofhollywood, nice to see you posting. I was a brand new member and you posted the multi color speed queen coin ops for me. I never forget a kindness. Good to see ya mister. arthur |
Post# 458075 , Reply# 98   8/20/2010 at 03:59 (4,970 days old) by sudsman ()   |   | |
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THATS FOR SURE!!! |
Post# 458138 , Reply# 99   8/20/2010 at 12:46 (4,969 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)   |   | |
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I wonder if it's all about moderation? Bleach in itself is not bad, just don't pour too much of a good thing in at a time. Same with detergents.
What was suggested to me by a very knowledgeable woman at LOWE'S. Alternate your cleaning aids. Each can cause a slight build up on their own that is counteracted by another. Too much powder detergent in cooler water can cause a cement like build in the outer tub. Too much liquid detergent can cause a build up of greasy film. Too much softner can cause Gunk. If you alternate they counteract and complement each other's traits. I usually wash bedding, towels, jeans with Powder Tide HE and a Hot wash. Perm Press is usually Tide Total Care (Liquid) in Warm or cold. Delicates are done with Woolite HE (Liquid) cold water. I rarely, but do use softner. Most of my bleaching is with Oxi-clean now, but I do have a bleach dispenser in my machine and have usd LCB. It holds about 1/4 cup of bleach, my main complaint and the reason I avoid bleach in my FL machine is I don't like the way it dumps the bleach in a plume right in the middle of the clothes. This post was last edited 08/20/2010 at 14:51 |
Post# 458157 , Reply# 101   8/20/2010 at 14:45 (4,969 days old) by bobofhollywood ()   |   | |
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and my other three shown at parade rest with doors and drawers open. . . |
Post# 458189 , Reply# 103   8/20/2010 at 20:43 (4,969 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Thats a good suggestion Wichita person [ you should fill out your profile ] to use different products for different loads. One thing I have noticed in my vast experience of working with washing machines is that many consumers have terrible build ups of various kinds in thier machines. This is because they get stuck in various bad habits with the use of laundry aids temperatures and settings on the machine. And of all the coin operaterated machines I have worked on I have never seen any type of build up in them. I think this gives creditability to the idea that using different laundry products etc is a good idea for everyone. I would also say that far more harm is caused by using too little of most laundry aids than using too much.
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Post# 458231 , Reply# 104   8/21/2010 at 04:57 (4,969 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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I honestly don't think I could stand not using LCB and hot water......Even a very little of it goes a LONG way.......Like a tablespoon in a spray bottle with the rest distilled water. I think it really disinfects the inside of the washer, even in its very diluted state (those dispensers hold very little bleach).....So that and leaving the door cracked has kept my machine like new. The first year I had it I had the control board replaced and the technician said that most of the front load washers he works on STINKS......He said mine didn't at all. He was kind of surprised he said. He asked me what I did....I said I just leave the door cracked.
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Post# 797707 , Reply# 106   12/6/2014 at 13:16 (3,400 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)   |   | |
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I'd really take some convincing to believe that the aftermarket bearings sold by frontloadbearings.com are in any way better then the OEM's are. The cost of the bearings means nothing since by the time they get to you 75% of the cost is all markup anyhow. I would love to see the markings on the shields of both the OEM bearings as well as the aftermarket ones, that would be far more telling of product quality.
Still the bearings didn't fail due to their quality (or lack thereof) or because they weren't big enough etc. In almost all cases the bearings fail when they start to take in water past the seal. If there was anything different that could be done to make the bearings run longer it would be from improving the life of that seal. When you had the machine apart to replace the spider, did you replace the seal at that time too? In any case, welcome to the group Ben. I hope the 2nd attempt at the repair gives you at least 8 years more life out of your machine! |
Post# 797896 , Reply# 109   12/7/2014 at 15:15 (3,399 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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Post# 797908 , Reply# 110   12/7/2014 at 16:29 (3,399 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Allen, your sister backs my experience very well, I have often stated that it is almost impossible to use too much detergent, it is too little detergent that causes 90% of detergent related washer problems and failures.
I also have a customer that uses only cold water and liquid detergents in her KA [ Duet Style FL Washer ]and the washer smells great and has no sign of any mold or build-ups what so ever, but she told me she always fills the detergent bottle cap completely at a minimum. |
Post# 797926 , Reply# 111   12/7/2014 at 17:34 (3,399 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 797963 , Reply# 112   12/7/2014 at 20:03 (3,399 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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LOL! LOL! LOL!
Your last post cracked me up..... This thread is so old......but I think it is a number of factors.....My FL washer is in a climate controlled area.......but I also am the ONLY one that uses it. I'm careful about doing the right things based on what I've learned online over the years.....Using bleach/hot water with whites.....warm/hot water with colors, not over-dosing, not under-dosing, leaving the door cracked and detergent drawer cracked when not in use, and not using too much fabric softener. I dilute a small amount of fab sftner with distilled vinegar. This April my Duet will be 10 yrs old. It would be interesting the see what the spider looks like on it...But there is ZERO smell in my washer, just that clean smell with a faint hint of detergent that you expect a washer to smell like inside. Personally, I think it's over use or under use of detergent, cold water, too much fab sfner and over loading the machine, along with the area it's located that causes it. |
Post# 798074 , Reply# 114   12/8/2014 at 07:05 (3,399 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Allen, the suds vanish in the last rinse when the FS goes in, But don't get me wrong I am not endorsing your sisters way of washing clothing as it is far cheaper to use hot water and less detergent [ detergent is the most expensive cost of running a washer ] but her system has kept the washer mold free, I just wouldn't want to wear socks etc washed by her, LOL.
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Post# 909957 , Reply# 117   12/6/2016 at 19:15 (2,669 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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This has nothing to do with galvanic corrosion, it is almost 100% user error.
If you read over the previous threads carefully you'll see that it has everything to do with using two little detergent using cooler to cold water and basically just not getting clothing clean.
When the washer does not clean clothing it leaves the grime dirt oil's on the inside surfaces of the washer and it coats the aluminum spider keeping it moist with dirt and causing it to corrode. Having worked on thousands of front-loading washers I have never seen one yet with a broken spider that was not a stinky mess it's entirely user caused.
If the manufacturer was doing something wrong with the construction and the materials used everyone of these washers would break when in reality the majority can last more than 20 years with virtually no corrosion on the spider.
John L.
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Post# 909979 , Reply# 118   12/7/2016 at 04:25 (2,669 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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has an aluminum spider because I've seen pics posted here of someone doing a refurb on one exactly like mine, and mine is approaching 12 years old. So it must be a combination of user error and the area it's located in. But someone also mentioned that it could be the actual quality of the metals - which could be different from one machine to another - that could also explain why one lasts as long as mine while another lasts only 5 years. I dunno. But I have loved my machine and my next one is going to be a FL Maypool or Whirlpool....But it would be GREAT if my washer lasts another 5 years - I guess it's possible but I think very unlikely. Something in it has to go eventually. I'm just glad I can use the same pedestals (at least that's what they told me)
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Post# 909985 , Reply# 120   12/7/2016 at 05:34 (2,669 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Post# 910022 , Reply# 121   12/7/2016 at 12:33 (2,668 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)   |   | |
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Well certainly there is some galvanic issue here at play, but it ISN'T the cause of a premature spider failure.
We do have two dissimilar metals in contact so there is a possibility of an anodic potential difference that could result in corrosion. We can only guess at what alloy the typical spider is cast from but it is likely some form of aluminum. The spin basket is some alloy of stainless. Assuming this there is a moderate difference of ~.50 V on the Anodic Index. Ideally in a wet corrosive application this potential difference should be held tighter then this to control any galvanic reaction. But at this point we are now second guessing the engineers that designed these things. They considered this and they made it this way anyhow. Since a washer isn't like a ship that is constantly wet, this is likely acceptable within the design lifetime of the washer. The design lifetime is surely a minimum of 10 years with a margin for error. Allowing biofilm and crud to accumulate on the spider holds the moisture in place constantly and accelerates the corrosion. John's empirical evidence of only seeing gunky spiders failing corroborates this. The fact that other front load washers live on much longer without seeing corrosion shows that there is something at play here more then just saying it is poor design. Bear in mind that any new topload machine will likely be designed for the same design lifetime within a given manufacturers line. Using past performance to predict future trends may not be very accurate. Surely a modern Speed Queen top load machine will easily last 10 years, but a Speed Queen front load machine will outlast the top load machine and be easier to repair. But heaven forfend, the user may have to adapt a bit to use the appliance properly in order to reap the higher performance advantages of the front load machine. |
Post# 910135 , Reply# 122   12/8/2016 at 09:46 (2,667 days old) by Laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)   |   | |
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I think one of the causes of this stems from abuse. My cousin ruined her washers from just dumping liquid bleach freely into her washers. That caused corrosion and the entire front from the dispenser to the lower door area rusted out in two years. Way too much detergent and additives. The manufacturers have reasons to have markings on how much is enough. Dealing with Smiths Appliance , a local used appliance and furniture company, I see so many rusted out washers and dryers. Sad but true.
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Post# 932119 , Reply# 126   4/13/2017 at 00:37 (2,542 days old) by Laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)   |   | |
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Post# 932478 , Reply# 127   4/14/2017 at 23:44 (2,540 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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I've never seen a clean spider stress crack and I worked in a used machine shop in Germany while my teaching credentials were being cleared. Saw several dozen. Chlorine bleach WILL attack many aluminium alloys and I don't doubt it can contribute to failure in those machines not designed for it. The amount of current needed for galvanic action between disparate metals is much smaller than most of us think, especially given the conditions of the water in which they are immersed. I'd not exclude the possibility that it plays some role - just how much I don't know. I'm linking to a familiar chart, though - and the conditions are met in a washing machine for the active metal (AL) to be eaten away. The question is, at what rate? CLICK HERE TO GO TO panthera's LINK |
Post# 932489 , Reply# 128   4/15/2017 at 01:19 (2,540 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
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The new machines are JUNK...The old Bendix and Westinghouse machines never had these problems...But then, they actually WASHED and RINSED properly....enough water and one direction tumbling! |
Post# 932514 , Reply# 130   4/15/2017 at 09:42 (2,539 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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I made no reference to the induced currents as I don't think there are any. One needs no outside source of electricity - you have an anode (aluminium alloy), a cathode (stainless steel alloy) and a highly-conductive solution of water. Americans use an enormous amount of chlorine bleach. I used oxygen bleaches in Germany. Enormous difference.
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Post# 974793 , Reply# 132   12/20/2017 at 19:11 (2,290 days old) by johnrk (BP TX)   |   | |
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Thanks for your great photos and explanation--I've learned something here. |
Post# 974837 , Reply# 133   12/21/2017 at 06:00 (2,290 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)   |   | |
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Post# 974843 , Reply# 134   12/21/2017 at 07:23 (2,290 days old) by sPeEDqUeEN (Metro-Detroit)   |   | |
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Post# 974869 , Reply# 135   12/21/2017 at 10:53 (2,289 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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The ONLY reason these spiders corrode is a mineral and scum build-up caused by improper usage habits of the machine by its users.
We have analyzed hundreds of FL washer spider failures right in the homes where the machines were used and I have never seen a spider failure where it was any surprise when we saw how the machine was used. On the other hand even FL washers like the small door Frigidaire's that had a very thin spider never fail even when used commercially with lots of different users and lots of bleach to keep the spider clean. Yes Andrew you have identified how these spiders fail, but you have missed the real reason why they are getting a mineral and scum build-up in the first place. When manufactures design and test their machines none would subject them to this type of neglect and poor usage habits that cause this crap to build-up. Washing machines of all types have had failures from corrosion since the first wooden wringer machines and many of the reasons for corrosion damage were completely beyond the control of the manufacturer, just as a car manufacturer cannot control how cars are cared for and driven. John L. |
Post# 974938 , Reply# 136   12/21/2017 at 21:23 (2,289 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 974941 , Reply# 137   12/21/2017 at 22:15 (2,289 days old) by sPeEDqUeEN (Metro-Detroit)   |   | |
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What Mr. LeFever said was that while Andrew(awr) found the direct cause for the failure, the cause of electrolyte remaining was poor washing habits, of which he has explained at length.
"Yes Andrew you have identified how these spiders fail, but you have missed the real reason why they are getting a mineral and scum build-up in the first place. When manufactures design and test their machines none would subject them to this type of neglect and poor usage habits that cause this crap to build-up." A cause/effect chart. {poor washing habits}--->{build-up}--->{electrolyte}--->{galvanic corrosion}--->{spider failure} |
Post# 974943 , Reply# 138   12/21/2017 at 22:33 (2,289 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 974947 , Reply# 139   12/21/2017 at 23:45 (2,289 days old) by sPeEDqUeEN (Metro-Detroit)   |   | |
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John is our expert on repair around here and I'm sure he will explain.
My personal opinion is that it is galvanic action doing the final blow. I just cannot believe the detergent chemical corrosion alone can do so much damage so quickly in some cases to the aluminum. The volt meter doesn't lie either. It also is the glue that ties all other theories on the cause of spider failure. Anyone who has seen plumbing where some cheapskate skipped the dielectric union knows how quickly a pipe will rot out. (My father was a plumber for 27 years) |
Post# 974957 , Reply# 140   12/22/2017 at 01:17 (2,289 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 974977 , Reply# 141   12/22/2017 at 07:33 (2,289 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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I would have believed this. But now that I'm on my 13th year with my Duet FL washer, I think it has everything to do with washing habits and nothing to do with the dissimilar metals. I think using a little bleach with whites and hot water must do something to prevent this from happening. What? I don't know. But my spider should have corroded a LONG time ago if this was the case. When my duet dies, I'd love for someone to take it apart to examine it. I'm the only one who has used it. Hot water, bleach in whites, ammonia and HE powder in colors, a tiny bit of fab softener. I notice this spider corrosion also coincides with foul odors, so that should tell you something too. It's got to the be washing habits causing it.
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Post# 974990 , Reply# 142   12/22/2017 at 09:50 (2,288 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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A friend has a Kenmore HE3 (not t) that's 14 years old (2003, 38th week). Only repair to my knowledge is replacement of the pump several years ago, which was done by me. She does tons of pet laundry and uses bleach. She fosters rescue dogs and has a pack of 23+ at all times including fosters & residents (they're all allowed into the house) ... plus cats and a cockatoo that's more than 35 yo. Another friend has an HE3t that's 15 years old (2002, 42nd week). Water valve was replaced last year. I don't know how often he uses bleach. It was given to him 4 to 5 years ago. I don't think he was aware of the heating capability until I explained the Sanitary cycle. I have no info on the previous owners' usage habits or their repair history. |
Post# 975016 , Reply# 144   12/22/2017 at 14:22 (2,288 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)   |   | |
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If an automaker made cars that only held up for people that drove correctly, they'd be run out of business in short order. The best appliances are designed to protect themselves against the ignorance of the general public. |
Post# 975020 , Reply# 146   12/22/2017 at 14:35 (2,288 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)   |   | |
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There is no doubt that there will be a galvanic potential between the dissimilar metal parts. And it is likely measurable as Andrew's photo shows. It should be noted that the input impedance of that meter is 10 Million ohms, I'd be curious as to the magnitude of the potential if there was slightly more loading.
As I said before (#121) the galvanic corrosion isn't the primary cause of the failure. If it were then ALL the machines would fail in a similar time frame. But we see many machines serving a longer then design lifetime with no corrosion issues, then some machines see significant corrosion in a short time frame. What is the reason for the difference? As postulated in this thread several times it is from a bio-film buildup on the spider do to poor usage habits. In machines with a clean spider casting the corrosion is minimal. So now lets consider the engineers that made these machines. Were they clueless to the possibility of a galvanic reaction when they designed the machine? The pragmatist in me says they considered this issue and deemed it to not be a problem in normal use. A machine isn't designed to last forever, if it were cost would be prohibitive. Within a 10-20 year design life with proper usage the spider isn't going to fail. |
Post# 975021 , Reply# 147   12/22/2017 at 15:00 (2,288 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )   |   | |
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Maybe a dumb question: would attaching the spider to a good ground help? |
Post# 975061 , Reply# 148   12/22/2017 at 21:05 (2,288 days old) by sPeEDqUeEN (Metro-Detroit)   |   | |
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A proposed solution to me would seem to isolate the tub with rubber insulators from the spider so that while there would be potential, the circuit would be open and thus it couldn't short to itself when there is an electrolyte present. In other words, extrapolate the dielectric union concept from plumbing to the joints between the spider and the tub.
I believe the spider is already grounded by virtue of the frame. To all those saying galvanic action cannot explain why some corrode and others don't based on usage, I reiterate that the buildup by improper usage is what can act as the electrolyte when they cycle is over. Clean machines don't have this electrolyte remaining and thus don't have galvanic action and don't have spider failure. Just my opinion. |
Post# 975089 , Reply# 150   12/23/2017 at 05:04 (2,288 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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All these parts are deliberately grounded on most FL or TL washers, so grounding does not seem help, on machines with plastic outer tubs there is a ground wire running to the bearing hub, this id done for safety in case the heater or other electrical part fails and comes into contact with the basket which could present a hazzard to the appliances user.
John L. |
Post# 975134 , Reply# 151   12/23/2017 at 09:40 (2,287 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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Involved in corrosion? And most of those factors are mitigated through cleaning? Some corroding factors are no doubt enhanced by the manner in which a machine is used. I've mentioned here before that I spent a long time cleaning and repairing machines in Germany. Spider corrosion was minimal, even on the lowest-end Italian machines. And they do, indeed, use chlorine bleach in Italy. They also let the machines dry out (open doors) let the machines heat the water to temperatures which minimize microbial slime build up (and guess what that slime does) and use detergents which actually, you know, clean. American makers (and those programming otherwise European machines) for quite a while refused to learn from the 50+ years experience of the rest of the world. At the same time as they were not putting drain holes in the boots, lowering water levels to non-functional levels and using poor programming and poor quality materials there were two other factors at hand: 1) No heating elements - the absurdly weak 110V/15Amp (110, 115, 117, 120, 121, 125, 127VAC, for the a-retentive) power available makes more than lukewarm washing impossible. 2) Until very recently, the phosphate free detergents on offer in the US were beyond useless.
So, yeah, galvanic corrosion is a thing. So is corrosion from the microbial slime. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to find evidence that cavitation plays a role. It's not the chlorine bleach, primarily, it's the build up of microbes and filth coupled with arrogant manufacturers who couldn't be bothered to research because, after all, what could the rest of the world know? |
Post# 975160 , Reply# 152   12/23/2017 at 13:14 (2,287 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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I highly doubt that the suggested cleaning procedure for our 2008 Affinity FL has much, if any impact on the spider. It's just a standard wash cycle with bleach, which I run perhaps twice a year on average.
Our Duet OTOH, employed a medium speed spin during its "Clean Washer" cycle that threw the bleach solution into every possible nook and cranny. Since the Affinity doesn't even possess a dedicated cycle for cleaning, I'm amazed that we've gotten over nine years of service from it without a catastrophe.
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Post# 975276 , Reply# 153   12/24/2017 at 03:49 (2,287 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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My duet is from 2005 before clean washer cycles were on the washers. However, I learned after 5 or 6 years of owning it that I can press a sequence of buttons to activate a clean washer cycle where it fills with a lot of water and spins rapidly with throwing water EVERYWHERE! I think I have to press select drain/spin. select warm/cold, cycle signal to low, and extra rinse 3 times or something like that. I haven't used it in a while. I got my manual out and it's indeed in the very back what the sequence is. I never even noticed it in the manual when I first read it.
I do wish our washers connected to 220V like the dryers or ranges. But even still, if I choose heavy duty/more soil or whitest whites more soil, and especially sanitary, my duet gets plenty hot, like dishwasher hot. |
Post# 983660 , Reply# 155   2/20/2018 at 23:56 (2,228 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi AWR, how come the spiders only corrode and break on machines that are used with cold water, too little detergent, and no chlorine bleach ?, explain that. If it was a design flaw all FL washers would corrode and fail and yet when FD redesigned their FL washers a decade ago and used a much heaver spider we have never seen one fail since, we have also never seen a SQ spider fail in commercial use.
We have far more real life experience with FL washers in real homes than you do, we have literately thousands of customers with FL washers and have seen nearly 1000 spiders fail and when you see the gunky machine it is never a surprise that it corroded and broke.
The other interesting thing is when these same home machines are used in commercial settings often washing up to 20 loads a day the spiders never corrode and break.
John L. |
Post# 983716 , Reply# 157   2/21/2018 at 14:16 (2,227 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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Before this is all considered "fact," there needs to be more chemical and mechanical/material study. And typing it all in caps doesn't make it more so.
These are claims from your observation, and even John's observation. The tests and observations are of course interesting and appreciated. Some of those observations coincide, and some seem not to. It seems like this issue can have a lot of facets. From part design, metal composition, assembly procedure, customer use, additives used, home conditions, WATER conditions etc etc. (example: I have very alkaline water, softened, 8 - 8.5ph, whereas my parents have hard, Chicago water at 7.0ph. Our appliances wash very differently with different detergents.) I'd like to hear from some appliance engineers hiding in the weeds on this issue. If it is in fact some kind of rampant galvanic issue, I'm sure the appliance engineers work on this and with it. **Please engineers, come forth. Help us understand. You do not have to reveal what house you work for. ** Also, for this to be truly scientific, we need lots of peer reviewed and repeated experimentation and observation. This crisis also reminds me of my pharmacist dad, who insists that all of society is sick and on drugs. Well, yeah from his perspective. All he sees is the sick people....cuz they need his drugs! He's not seeing the vast swaths of healthy people. This here, if it was that much of a corrosion pandemic, it would be all over the news and we'd be covered in stories of exploding front loaders. Which we're not. Not to say it NOT a problem. But it seems like a minor one in the market. As always, "more study" is needed. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fact... A fact is a statement that is true or can be proven with evidence. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability — that is, whether it can be demonstrated to correspond to experience. Standard reference works are often used to check facts. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement (by experiments or other means). Thank you AWR for your "thesis" and I would happily like to see these claims re-tested to see how the observations and electrical measurements match up. Also, I'll offer this thread for further reading. The comments were interesting: fixitnow.com/wp/2009/10/28/front... ^ there's a link in there about a WP Canadian court case where WP had to change the aluminum specs and design to reduce corrosion, which it seems they did around 2008. |
Post# 983717 , Reply# 158   2/21/2018 at 14:19 (2,227 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )   |   | |
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A tiny square of plastic between the spider and the tub would do it. (Shim). That with a plastic washer on the screw and it would be isolated. |
Post# 984224 , Reply# 159   2/25/2018 at 07:43 (2,224 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Post# 984230 , Reply# 160   2/25/2018 at 08:03 (2,224 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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But what about the bolts that go through the SS drum into the aluminum spider ?
You are correct Greg, just putting a plastic washer between the two different metals does little good, there are ways to use special fasteners to do this but it affects the strength of the assembly.
Painting or coating of the aluminum would likley do very good as well, when washers had pot-metal aluminum water pumps manufactures tried different epoxy coatings etc and they did as much harm as good, because moisture would get under the coating and corrode even more quickly.
Greg I would be willing to bet when you do an autopsy on your 20+ YO Asko some day that the spider will look close to new.
John L. |
Post# 984234 , Reply# 161   2/25/2018 at 08:08 (2,224 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Post# 987552 , Reply# 162   3/21/2018 at 14:22 (2,199 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Old LG 24 inch washer, you can see that it was definitely electrolytic corrosion by the way that the corrosion happens in the center of the spider and not where aluminum and stainless steel are clamped together, LOL |
Post# 987643 , Reply# 163   3/22/2018 at 08:29 (2,199 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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Could the cracks be stress fractures, caused by using too thin a grade of aluminium alloy? |
Post# 987653 , Reply# 164   3/22/2018 at 09:35 (2,199 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)   |   | |
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My vote would be dissimilar metals within the casting, like what often happens to pot metal as it ages. I've seen this quite a bit when working on antique radios and phonographs. |
Post# 987658 , Reply# 165   3/22/2018 at 11:08 (2,198 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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It is corrosion pure and simple, they corrode in this area because this is where the bio-film [ crud from poor washing habits ] accumulates and keeps the area moist.
The notion of impurities in the aluminum is ridiculous, all three arms are corroded in the same area, if it were impurities it would have to be random. John L. |
Post# 987701 , Reply# 166   3/22/2018 at 16:27 (2,198 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)   |   | |
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Post# 987861 , Reply# 167   3/24/2018 at 08:47 (2,197 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)   |   | |
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I'm thinking that if it were actually pure aluminum, it wouldn't corrode like that. |
Post# 987872 , Reply# 169   3/24/2018 at 09:42 (2,196 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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You have to remember that due to poor washing and usage habits this area of the spider that corrodes and breaks is coated in over a 1/2" of toxic gunk that stays wet all the time, even anodizing or epoxy coatings over aluminum will fail under these conditions.
When manufactures design and build these washers they never imagined that people could misuse them is badly and in extensive factory and commercial testing these same machines NEVER fail. John L. |
Post# 987874 , Reply# 170   3/24/2018 at 09:49 (2,196 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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Maybe some enterprising soul should send a sample of the drum spider for metallurgical analysis. Then we could find out exactly what it is made of. But it might vary batch to batch, manufacturer to manufacturer. |
Post# 987876 , Reply# 171   3/24/2018 at 10:00 (2,196 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 988015 , Reply# 177   3/25/2018 at 06:41 (2,196 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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So, corrosion up to the point where stresses take over. I just wish they'd use materials a tad more robust. It'd save everyone a lot of grief. |
Post# 988106 , Reply# 180   3/25/2018 at 17:28 (2,195 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit)   |   | |
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Another issue is people's fascination with SS tubs, porcelain coated steel tubs had no direct metal to metal contact for many years before the porcelain enamel began to fail. If the tub were all porcelain coated, there would be no metal to metal contact, just metal to porcelain. Were W&WW Spacemates known to have spider failures? Did they have aluminum spiders? |
Post# 1191169 , Reply# 184   10/3/2023 at 07:03 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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@ latest reply ..
That's really interesting. I'm not sure what the build date is for my Whirlpool duet but it sounds like that change wasn't made until AFTER mine was built.. I do wonder though. Take someone who has good laundry habits and their machine doesn't smell.. Let's say the spider is slowly crumbling away or rotting away, dissolving... whatever... would that create a bad smell on its own? |
Post# 1191905 , Reply# 185   10/14/2023 at 00:14 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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I can say the same thing for fabric softener. It will not ruin your washer when used as directed. |
Post# 1192090 , Reply# 188   10/17/2023 at 18:04 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 1192143 , Reply# 189   10/18/2023 at 12:24 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Regards to cold water ... I stayed a week+ with a friend for his son's wedding, with other of his family also visiting. I did several loads of laundry. Kenmore (rebadged LG) 796.41262.610. Dryer is a blue HE3-match 110.82826101 (serial 11/2002). Anyway, bath towels had some mustiness. He's using Amazon Basic pods, lavender scent (he said always dose of two). Normal cycle warm is cool at best. I ran a towels load on Whites hot (which was a strong warm, LOL) and one extra rinse. Mustiness gone on that load (no appreciable lavender scent remained). I don't recall but I may have added a 3rd pod. His gas water heater is producing upwards of 158°F, confirmed with a digital meat thermometer at the kitchen faucet. The washer does that wonky LG pulse-fill pattern, rattling the pipes. |