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Thread Number: 29663
Consumer Reports Tests New TOL Frigidaire Front-Loader |
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Post# 451011 7/21/2010 at 20:34 (5,020 days old) by Frigilux  (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Well, that was quick!
CR tested the new Frigidaire TOL model 4474 and placed it in their ratings. The total score for it was 81. It had the shortest cycle time of all the tested machines: 50 minutes. That explains the washing performance score. I believe they tested the machine on its "Normal" cycle. FYI: The top-rated machine, an $800 LG-made Kenmore, scored an 85. Washing Performance: Good Water Efficiency: Excellent Energy Efficiency: Excellent Capacity: Excellent Gentleness: Excellent Noise: Very Good Vibration: Good Price: $1,000 That reasonable (well, by comparison, anyway) price gives you: 1300 rpm. spin; 4.4 cu.ft. drum; prewash cycle; steam; internal heater; many specialty cycles, including a stain treat/soak cycle. Had they used the "Heavy" (20-minute wash) instead of the "Normal" (15-minute wash) cycle, I'll bet that cleaning score would bump up to Very Good. And you can call for a heavy soil option, which adds additional time. 
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Post# 451013 , Reply# 1 7/21/2010 at 20:38 (5,020 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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| Post# 451074 , Reply# 3 7/22/2010 at 02:39 (5,020 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California) | ||
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Perhaps the 20 and 15 minutes refer to the wash (with soap, prior to any rinses) portion of the entire cycle. | ||
| Post# 451079 , Reply# 4 7/22/2010 at 04:17 (5,020 days old) by dj-gabriele () | ||
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Me too, I was referring to the wash only, total cycle times are 30-60 minutes longer (as an example: cotton 60°C is 140 minutes and synthetics 40°C is 90 minutes start to end) | ||
| Post# 451083 , Reply# 6 7/22/2010 at 06:19 (5,019 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth) | ||
Nathan your absolutely right.
Long wash times dont particularly bother me so I just leave the machine to do its job but older UK front loaders only had wash times of between 10-20 minutes once the water was at the correct temperature and half the time it was warm wnough in the machine to get going right away. Mind we had hot and cold machines just like our friends across the pond have now. Providing these utilised the Hot Water it could potentially fill up on a warm wash and and be at 40 degrees ready to go to cut the heating portion out and the timer would advance into the main wash section. Whole wash cycles on 40 degree cottons could be done in 40 minutes with long fast spins. Hoover machines seem to be good at this even using low water levels in the wash. 95 degree washes can be done in a vintage machine in 70 minutes if your hot water is around 70/80 degrees like I have mine set at. | ||
| Post# 451155 , Reply# 9 7/22/2010 at 16:39 (5,019 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
Whirlcool... | ||
| Post# 451163 , Reply# 10 7/22/2010 at 17:25 (5,019 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
I notice with the first generation Duet front load washers, they cycle times are not as long as the new ones. I always wondered why.....On my Duet, if I choose normal cycle, it's default at 40 min's (warm) 2 rinses, and high spin (you can up the time by changing the soil level). Heavy Duty defaults to 50 min's, 2 rinses, and hot with high spin. Again, you can change the soil level to add time. Whitest whites defaults to an hour with hot water, extra rinse and high spin...The max it allows you to increase is a total time of one hour and ten minutes with the soil level set to "more"...I almost never use the normal cycle. I usually use Heavy Duty or Whitest whites with extra rinse and more soil level and hot water...Everything comes out sparkling clean.
The new Duets add about ten minutes to each of those times, from what I have read. | ||
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Post# 451450 , Reply# 11 7/24/2010 at 00:02 (5,018 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI) |
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Those numbers always amaze me. In my good old fashioned top loader I have a load done in 20 minutes or less. I can't imagine waiting 3x that long for a load. | ||
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Post# 453531 , Reply# 13 8/1/2010 at 13:41 (5,009 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Geez MattL, even with my Shredmore, a load took a miniimum of 30 minutes and that didn't include a 2nd rinse and the wassh phase was 8 minutes. I too feel my clothes get a lot cleaner, drying time is reduced. I very rarely bother to look for stains anymore, which I did for every load with the Shredmore and that included adding Biz. Now, I don't waste time going through that process. My current Fridgemore and the dryer are pretty much even when timing. I'm not waiting 15 to 20 mimnutes for each dryer load to finish and the washer just sitting there or I have piles of wet clothes stacking up waiting for the dryer to do each load. I hope I never have to go back to a top loader again.
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Post# 453560 , Reply# 14 8/1/2010 at 16:09 (5,009 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Front Loader Rinsing vs Top
Loads washed (with minimal and often "HE" detergent), in my Whirlpool portable and given two deep rinses often still can have residue pulled out by the Miele. This is with all the spray rinses the Whirlpool has during both spin cycles, and that it spins at a slightly higher rpm than most top loaders.
Also one will often see detergent residue extracted after the same is put into the Hoover TT spin extractor for a bit. Indeed one often feels the "scent" left behind on laundry washed in a top loader is often the result of detergent residue. | ||
| Post# 453598 , Reply# 15 8/1/2010 at 18:11 (5,009 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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Post# 453620 , Reply# 16 8/1/2010 at 20:29 (5,009 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Rinsing: I've mentioned a few times that the cleanest-rinsing detergent I've ever used is Unilever (U.K.) Persil powdered detergent. However, I haven't stocked it in ages due to the eye-popping cost of having it shipped over the pond.
However.....since my new front-loader provides only two rinses, I've decided to wean myself away from tenaciously-sudsy Tide HE. So, at about 2:45 this morning I succumbed to temptation and ordered three large boxes of Persil Bio detergent from the Brit Superstore. I'm going to try to use that and powdered SA8 in the new washer. I'll save the Persil for loads of heavily-stained kitchen whites and use SA8 (which also rinses out better than P&G detergents in soft water) for regular loads. I really like the cleaning power of Tide's HE line, but there's always suds in the third rinse in my current machine, and that's with an interval spin between each rinse. All my Tide HE products should be used up by the time the new washer arrives. If the SA8 can do the job with the help of "stain treat" and steam injection options, then I'll probably opt to make that my daily driver, again, which will be much kinder to the checkbook than UK Persil. Too bad they screwed up the formula of SA8 a couple of years ago. It definitely doesn't remove stains as well as it used to, but it's a clean-rinsing detergent, which is more than I can say for any of the P&G detergents I've tried, all of which are still sudsy in the third rinse. A friend of mine with an LG front-loader accidentally bought a bottle of All Small & Mighty, then realized when she got home that it wasn't HE, so she gave it to me, and I've been using it in the top-loader. The post-wash scent is fairly strong, but I like it. Is the Small & Mighty line from Henckels or is it Unilever? I've tried Henckels Persil powder, and it cleaned well, but doesn't rinse as cleanly as UK Persil. And even though the Henckels version is more widely available in the US, it's still very expensive. Come to think of it, I wash a lot of black/dark color loads in the winter. I've been using Cheer For Dark Colors and Woolite For Dark Colors, neither of which are HE. There is an HE version of regular Woolite, but I don't know if there are any optical brighteners in it. I want to avoid them for blacks, which look "dusty" and faded when washed in regular detergents. I saw something called Perwoll at the Henckels Persil website, but it's $24 a bottle! Has anyone used it, and if so, what did you think of it? I'll probably stick with the two non-OBA, non-HE detergents I now use for black loads; I'll just have to make sure to lower the dosage in the new washer. They never have to clean heavily-soiled clothes, anyway. | ||
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Post# 453626 , Reply# 17 8/1/2010 at 20:42 (5,009 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Eugene, what is preventing you from setting each cycle to use the extra rinse option? I odn't undersetand. I keep the extra rinse on my washer (like yours) set at yes all the time. Once you use a cycle and configure the options as you want, everytime you use that cycle again, the options configured like the last time will be chosen again. also, the added water option.
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Post# 453628 , Reply# 18 8/1/2010 at 20:49 (5,009 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Persil "Perwoll"
Is just what it sounds like, a liquid (or powder)detergent for woolens. According to the bottles one has the stuff can also be used for laundering items made of silk and or fine linens.
The scent is rather strong in the bottle, but find it nice after my woolies have dried. Have used up all but a tablespoon of Tide "Proline" HE powder, and that will be that. Still have a large bottle of Tide HE "Free and Gentle" liquid to work through, but find it rinses well if one uses no more than one tablespoon. Mainly use it on bed and table linens since it cleans rather well, including removing stains, but does not leave a scent behind. | ||
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Post# 453630 , Reply# 19 8/1/2010 at 20:50 (5,009 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Hi Bob----With as little water as the new machine uses, I think even three rinses will not be enough to get rid of my suds-in-the-rinse issue. Also, it's my goal not to oversuds the new machine at all. It does have a protocol (up to an additional 4 rinses, apparently without spins in between) to deal with oversudsing, but I don't want to rely on that all the time.
I use the extra rinse in my current Frigidaire on loads of kitchen whites, which are dosed with Tide HE plus Tri-Zyme (or Tide Stain Release pacs) and chlorine bleach. Otherwise, I rarely use the extra rinse, as there seems to be just as much suds in the 4th rinse as the third in my soft water. I'll have to experiment and determine what works out the best for both the checkbook and cleaning/rinsing results. Of course, I can't do any of that 'til the blasted thing arrives, LOL! | ||
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Post# 453634 , Reply# 20 8/1/2010 at 21:00 (5,009 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Launderess---Thanks for the info about Perwoll. It is an HE detergent, right? Do you know if Woolite HE has OBA's? That would solve my HE-only dilemma for the new washer. I wear a lot of black in the winter----Docker's/Haggar pants and cotton blend solid-color shirts. I wash all my work clothes in the front-loader as it's kinder to them than the top-loader. They seem to hold their color better in the FL'er, given the frequency with which they are laundered. I don't get that fading around the cuffs, pocket seams or zipper area on pants, and shirts don't get worn/faded at edges of collars/cuffs/pockets.
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Post# 453640 , Reply# 21 8/1/2010 at 21:13 (5,009 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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There Isn't Such A Thing As "HE" Detergents In G
That is all detergents are designed for use in front loading/H-Axis washing machines.
Being as that may Persil "Perwoll" is rather sudsy on the theory that the froth created protects delicate wool and other fibers in the wash. Just what one is told one does not want normally with H-Axis washing machines, lots of froth; can work to the benefit of washing certain textiles. The cushion which impedes good washing under normal conditions created by too much suds, makes the wash action gentle for special fibers. Also "Perwoll" is designed to be used in either the wool or delicate cycles, both of which normally have less washing action than say a normal cycle. If you are careful with dosage, "Perwoll" can be used in the normal cycle, have done it with bed linens. Woolite: There was a rumor going around that some types of Woolite did contain OBA's, but cannot confirm. The bottle of Woolite I have (gave the others bought on a store closeout away), is for colours that bleed and has some sort of colour catching cleaning system, but no OBAs are listed on the product label. | ||
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Post# 453643 , Reply# 22 8/1/2010 at 21:28 (5,009 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Interesting: I visited the Woolite website and they no longer make Woolite HE. The FAQ's section did not mention a thing about the remaining formulations being compatible with HE machines.
In the tips section, there was mention of always cleaning out your detergent dispenser, and to do a washer-clean cycle at high temps of 60-90 degrees---must have meant C rather than F. This sounds like the description of an HE washer. I took down their customer service number. Will call and ask about HE compatibility. I'm curious, now. Although UK/European detergents are all what we would consider HE formulas, US-made detergents always seem to display the HE logo prominently, if they are, indeed, HE compatible. | ||
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Post# 453652 , Reply# 23 8/1/2010 at 22:39 (5,009 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"HE" is The New
Catch phrase from the American detergent makers. In the past there was "controlled suds" and "measured suds" to indicate detergents that made little to no froth.
Vintage Dash, All, and a few others were low/controlled sudsing detergents According to the recent boxes I've received, old "Gain" was measured sudsing and "Cold Power seems to be low or measured, don't know which but the box says it can be used in all types of washing machines. | ||
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Post# 453655 , Reply# 24 8/1/2010 at 23:06 (5,009 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 453745 , Reply# 25 8/2/2010 at 11:20 (5,008 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA) |
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Free and Clear Detergents
I just assumed that all the detergents listed as "free" of dyes would not have any OBA's, but I don't know if that is true. Is it? I have been very slowly using up a big container of non-he cheer in my FL washer, so once it is gone I will need to find something else for my dark clothes. Also, does the new "brightclean" cheer have OBA's in it, or is it still okay for dark clothing?
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Post# 453820 , Reply# 26 8/2/2010 at 14:54 (5,008 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Calling Launderess, calling Launderess! (or anyone else who has this information) Which chemicals are optical brighteners in detergents? It seems you posted some names once, but I'm unable to locate the post.
It would be easy to know which detergents are safe for blacks/dark colors if I know the names of the OBA's. Thanks in advance! | ||
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Post# 453827 , Reply# 27 8/2/2010 at 15:17 (5,008 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Free & Clear
Of "free of dyes" normally does not apply to OBAs/fabric whitening agents.
All versions of "Tide Free & Clear" powdered and liquid detergents contain OBAs, as does anything saying "bleach alternative", "brightclean", etc.. P&G now lists chemical break downs of their laundry detergents on their website. However most American detergents, aside from the "green" offerings do not give a total listing of chemicals. You want to look for the words "optical brightening agents, fabric whitening agents, fabric whiteners, bluing agents," and so forth. Again such things are often not listed, so the safest bet would be to call customer service via the telephone number on the packet and inquire. All versions of Tide and some versions of Cheer contain OBAs. Cheer was originally OBA free, and P&G's "colour" detergent, but as always people couldn't leave well enough alone and had to go mess with things. IIRC, the original version of Cheer powder (and perhaps liquid), may be OBA free, but check P&G's website. Normally detergents for darks and black clothing do not contain OBAs, but again check the label or call the company. | ||
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Post# 453830 , Reply# 28 8/2/2010 at 15:28 (5,008 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA) |
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Post# 453833 , Reply# 29 8/2/2010 at 15:34 (5,008 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Post# 453872 , Reply# 30 8/2/2010 at 16:33 (5,008 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Gene | ||
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Post# 454294 , Reply# 31 8/3/2010 at 18:21 (5,007 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Jon-- I think the chlorine bleach kills the effectiveness of the Tri-Zyme. If I'm using the top-loader, I simply add the bleach during the last 5 minutes of the wash cycle. This way the Tri-Zyme gets 15 minutes to do its thing. If I'm using the front-loader, the LCB isn't released until the 1st rinse, prior to which there has been a suds-kill spray rinse and a spin.
Look what I found online! There is an HE version of Woolite Extra Dark Care. Why isn't it listed at their own freakin' corporate website?! This is at drugstore.com. Of course it's $15 a bottle... 
This post was last edited 08/03/2010 at 19:43 | ||
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Post# 454436 , Reply# 32 8/4/2010 at 09:04 (5,006 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA) |
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Post# 454544 , Reply# 33 8/4/2010 at 18:56 (5,006 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Joe---That's hilarious! I didn't even notice it. I wonder how someone got from HE detergents to colon cleanser?
By the way, I received an e-mail from the parent company of Woolite today, telling me that the HE versions of their product are labelled as such, and that Woolite Complete and Woolite Extra Dark Care are the only versions available for HE washers. I still think it's odd they don't list them in their product line at their own website! Oh, well. I found the Extra Dark Care for HE online, and that's all that matters, I suppose. Now I won't have to break the "HE detergents only" rule for my new washer....when it arrives. Tap, tap, tap..... | ||
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Post# 454931 , Reply# 34 8/6/2010 at 09:10 (5,004 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 455069 , Reply# 35 8/6/2010 at 19:37 (5,004 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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