Thread Number: 30923
Plastic base Bosch dishwashers 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 466840   10/2/2010 at 05:22 (4,947 days old) by nickuk (chelmsford UK)        

Hello all

Has anybody had any experience with Bosch dishwashers with the plastic bases? These tend to be fitted on the cheaper models whereas the higher end ones still have stainless steel.

I am moving house and need to buy a dishwasher as our one here is integrated.

I have found one which does everything I want - an Avantixx SGS57A02 which I has plastic base. The next model up is more or less the same spec, but is a Logixx SMS53E12GB. It's about £50 more but has stainless steel base.

Perhaps the stainles steel base is not in itself an issue but is an indicator the machine is proper B/S/H, from Germany, quieter..... I just don't know.

Anyone with any knowledge is thanked in advance for their input.

Haven't totally discounted a Miele with cutlery tray which will be double the price, am not being mean re the Bosch - just wouldn't want to pay more than is necessary and I slightly prefer the classsic style of the cheaper one.




Post# 466855 , Reply# 1   10/2/2010 at 09:19 (4,947 days old) by lavamat_jon (UK)        

Hi Nick,

Nice to see you, hope you're keeping well.

My sister has just bought the Exxcel 5 prog one for about £380 I think she managed to get it for. For the extra few pounds, you get a German made one, much more solid door (though not as solid as Mieles but good enough), and a great array of options... she normally uses Intensive with Express Wash and Hygiene Extra and that will wash in an hour and a half. Nicely laid out racks etc. I'm not so sure that the Avantixx dishwashers have the Express and Hygiene options but I haven't paid particularly close attention to them.

The plastic-based models are cheaper models, probably come from the same source as the Classixx - was Balay of Spain last time I knew but anybody is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not keen on the build quality of them myself - in fact to my hand the cheap Beko dishwasher seemed a lot more solid in build than the Bosch Classixx.

The Miele dishwashers are still (naturally) my favourite, but I'm not so sure personally that I'd pay double the price for one especailly with only a 2 year warranty.

Jon

PS. OT but loving the newer batch of Persil atm!

Post# 466858 , Reply# 2   10/2/2010 at 09:46 (4,947 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
Ascenta line in USA

 The Bosch Ascenta line in USA is similar, with plastic bottom.

www.universal-akb.com/bosch-ascen...

The upper range of the Ascenta line offers hidden controls, while the BOL and MOL offer front control panels. However, if you are buying their hidden control models, the price would pay for a basic BOL or even MOL Evolution with full steel interior.

The other two lines are Evolution (front door controls) and Integra (hidden controls in the door edge), both of which has otherwise similar feature levels, with Integra being priced $100-200 more for any given feature set, because hidden control models can command a higher price due to demand. The corollary is that you can get an identical machine, in terms of features, and save $100-200 if you can handle the front control panel. Or, spend what you would have laid out for a BOL Integra and get a MOL Evolution. Both lines offer models which accept custom panels.

The Ascentas were released here only about two years ago, so I don't know anyone who owns one. You can see the seam along the bottom where plastic meets the steel. There is still enough steel (top, sides, rear surfaces) for adequate water condensation during drying phase. The front control panel had a cheap, plasticky feel to it. I can't recall the feel of the door, but I believe it was steel/metal, but rather thin gauge and not as solid-feeling as an Evolution or Integra.

My concern would be about a leak between the plastic and steel. If I were to buy one, I'd definitely get an extended warranty on it. Or, save the money of the extended warranty and buy an Evolution BOL.

Bosch has a factory in USA. My Integra was built there per the manufacturer's label (serial number, date, etc.) on the side of the door. I have seen Ascentas at Lowes and Pacific Sales, but never bothered to look at the label to see where they are made. The two higher lines (Evolution and Integra) are German-designed but made in a US plant. Mieles sold in USA are made in Germany, which accounts for the higher cost (shipping a DW can't be cheap). In addition, European companies which open plants in the USA tend to do it in the South, where workforces are less likely to be unionized and where costs are often lower than in EU. My understanding is that VW is opening a plant (Tennessee?) which will manufacture a mid-size car to replace the current VW Passat.

One benefit to US consumers of Bosch's plant here is that the brand, while not common, is mass-marketed through some larger stores (Lowes, etc.), and is not considered high-end/exotic like Miele, which leads to price competition. Another benefit, because of Bosch's market share, is that it's easier to find replacement parts and repair services that can service Bosch (vs. Miele). Miele products are very tightly price-controlled and any dealer caught discounting the product will be terminated.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO PassatDoc's LINK
Post# 466927 , Reply# 3   10/2/2010 at 15:53 (4,947 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

We've got the entry level machine in the office kitchen. It seems to have the old style wash system and the old style detergent dispensers and in Australia is different to the rest of the stainless interior range.

It washes well, has handled 3 loads a day for the last 6 months. The racking is similiar to the other bosch models, just without any of the flexibility. Will it last 5 or 10 years, I dont know, but so far there have been no problems.

Post# 469032 , Reply# 4   10/13/2010 at 11:45 (4,936 days old) by aegokocarat (United Kingdom)        

my aunt has a technik integrated dishwasher from 2001 itss practicly the same as a bosch. i think it has a plastic base too

Post# 469063 , Reply# 5   10/13/2010 at 15:38 (4,936 days old) by nickuk (chelmsford UK)        

Thanks everyone.

I went and had a look and these machines and I have to say there is no way I'd consider a Classixx or Avantixx, aswell as having the plastic base, the door springs up really weirdly and they just feel cheap.

So it'll either be the cheapest `proper' Bosch, I suspect similar to the one Jon mentions, but..........

OMG the Miele are nice machines. Saw the base model one for £499. What puts me off that is no time remain display, but works on all other levels. The next one up at £639 has all you need plus the cutlery third drawer. What do people think of this cutlery drawer? Is it a good thing? Surely there is a finite space in the cabinet - does it mean that wine glasses with long stems and stuff are tricky top fit in the top?

Cheers

Post# 469087 , Reply# 6   10/13/2010 at 19:33 (4,935 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Nick, you've hit it on the head why we bought Michaels mum a Bosch and not a Miele. We didnt want to spend over $2K on a dishwasher and the $1.5K models have the short tub with the tray. The Bosch was $1200 without a tray.

Over here all Miele DW except the base model all have the cuttlery tray, so the only way to get a roomy top rack is to make sure you get something from the G2XXX series as it is 2.5cm taller which offesets the height of the cuttlery tray.

We have the G2220, friends of ours bought the G1220 at about the same time. They can never fit anything into the top rack, whereas we never have any issues. If you have plates around 25cm wide, you will struggle to fit saucepans into the top rack on a G1XXX series. Even tall drinking glasses dont fit easily.

Be aware that Cheap Miele dishwashers have limited flexibility in the top rack. Our wineglasses fit ok, but in our entry level G2XXX series Miele you dont get any if the stem support and such that the Bosch gets for about half the price. You have to move up the Miele family into the mid range models before stem support and the like becomes included.

I love my G2220 but would never reccomend anyone buy a 1XXX series if it has a cuttlery tray. But just be aware that the entry level 2XXX model is a bare bones machine when it comes to racking. It works well, but if you want to wash more than 5 wineglasses at a time, be prepared to perch them carefully and watch them fall over if you pull the rack out quickly.

Post# 469644 , Reply# 7   10/16/2010 at 03:52 (4,933 days old) by nickuk (chelmsford UK)        

Thanks very much for the response, that's really interesting about the cutlery tray. I suspect the size issue may be different here in the UK as all the dishwashers have to have the same cabinet (to fit under worktops) or are you talking about a larger tub within the same cabinet?

Anyway, it's a non argument as I certainly couldn't afford above the basic line, or second one up, of Miele anyway. I didn't think to look at the wine glass stem support in the basic Miele. When I next go for a look I'll check that out.
I suspect it'll be a Bosch I go for too. I have a Bosch washer and dryer and am a sucker for matching appliances.

Post# 469651 , Reply# 8   10/16/2010 at 06:46 (4,933 days old) by glamwales ()        

I bought one 3 months ago to replace my older bosch which lasted 8 years. It still cleans well but I dont think it will last 2 years.

Shame

Post# 469674 , Reply# 9   10/16/2010 at 10:10 (4,933 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

In the USA, if you can deal with an exposed control panel (the Evolution series), for about $650 you can get the 500 series with adjustable upper racks. If you want hidden controls in the door edge, it will run about $150 more for the same set of features.

My 2001 Bosch DW has hidden controls, it is BOL of the Integra (hidden controls) series and I paid $600 nine years ago....today the equivalent DW is $100-150 more. On the other hand, it's never had a repair, runs perfectly, gets everything clean, and the three cycles (PowerScrub Plus, Normal, and Quick) are sufficient for my needs. The upper rack is basic and NOT adjustable, but with the tall tub, upper and lower rack clearances are adequate for most items.

My mother has a Miele with the cutlery rack but not the tall tub, and it does feel cramped. I've never tried to wash tall stemware while visiting her, so most normal household items seem to fit, and the upper rack is adjustable, but people who wash a lot of tall glasses/stemware would probably not be happy with it.

The other Bosch vs. Miele issue in the USA is that Bosch appliances are competitively discounted by retailers. Miele prices are very strictly controlled by Miele, and anyone caught discounting will lose their franchise. Lastly, it's easier to find Bosch repair services than Miele repair services, because there are so many more Bosch DWs out there (in USA) than Miele.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO PassatDoc's LINK
Post# 473201 , Reply# 10   11/3/2010 at 10:19 (4,915 days old) by Hunter (Colorado)        
bosch versus miele

 I just had my Whirlpool dishwasher literally decide to burn itself up.

I wanted a Miele. I really, really, did.

My goal was a mid range Miele BUT I did not want it in stainless steel. My kitchen (will be when it is all done) white. All I could find that was not in stainless (with the features I wanted) would have been about USD 2000. Ouch!

I ended up buying one of these (see link). The dishwasher, a 5 year extended warranty, tax, a new hose, and delivery with haul away was just over $950. (Still expensive - ouch). It hasn't been delivered and I hope that it works as well as I hope it will!! I have read good reviews of it.

Lowes had it for $899 but knocked it down to 809 because they were running a sale - plus were doing free delivery and haul away.

Miele's are awesome appliances, I have one of their ovens (that I got for 60% off because it was an analog floor model not a digital fancy one. Who cares?). I just couldn't spend >2000 for a dishwasher...maybe one day, but not now.

I have read really good reviews of Bosch and Miele products both.

Have you ever looked at gardenweb.com? Look under 'forum' -> 'home' and choose 'Appliances.' They have a lot of good stuff there for research.

Hunter

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Hunter's LINK
Post# 473218 , Reply# 11   11/3/2010 at 12:52 (4,915 days old) by retropia ()        

Do any Bosch or Miele dishwashers have hard food disposers? Or do they all have the little filter cups that have to be cleaned of food bits? I'm not sure if I'd like that.

Post# 473237 , Reply# 12   11/3/2010 at 14:06 (4,915 days old) by Hunter (Colorado)        
I don't think they do.

 I haven't seen a euro machine yet that had hard food disposers, but I don't know all of the lines.

However, when I had my Asko I realized that if you scrape your plates, you won't have an issue.

Post# 473255 , Reply# 13   11/3/2010 at 16:20 (4,915 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)        

joe_in_philly's profile picture
I have a Bosch with a manual clean filter. I do scrap big things off my the dishes, but don't pre-rinse. I check the filter every few months when I rememember. I did find a toothpick one time and a twist tie another time, but other than that, it is always empty.


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