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Thread Number: 31851
User Review: Frigidaire 4474 Front-Loader |
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Post# 480258 12/8/2010 at 04:44 (4,880 days old) by Frigilux  (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Having lived with it for a few months, I thought I'd post a user review of the washer and its companion dryer.
Let's get this out of the way first: Things that aren't great about the washer. 1) Hot water setting is really warm (110 degrees). The machine fills with so little water that the wash cycle is really just a purge of the hot water line. I will occasionally purge the line by filling the washer, then draining and resetting the cycle. If hot water is selected and the incoming water is too cold, it will trigger the internal heater. But it only heats it to 105-110, so you're still not getting hot water. To get a truly hot wash, I use the Allergy option (available only on the Heavy, Pet Beds, Kids Wear cycles). This heats the water to 132 degrees and adds about 20 minutes to the length of the cycle. Annoyingly, the Allergy option cannot be used in conjunction with a Pre-Wash or the Stain Pretreat setting. Again, one can let the cycle progress through Pre-Wash and Stain Pretreat, then cancel and reset the cycle, but that's a lot of fuss. Another way to get a very hot wash is to use the Sanitize cycle, which heats the water to 152 degrees. Again, annoyingly, you can't use the Pre-Wash or Stain Pretreat options with this cycle, but it seems to remove all stains without the help of either of those cycle add-ons. This is now the cycle I use for loads of kitchen whites. Provides a great profile wash! 2) The Add Steam option doesn't seem to do much, except add 20 minutes of tumbling. I've never actually seen steam in the tub, although if you open the door, the clothes in the machine are warmer than the water in the tub, so something must be happening. Using the setting seems to improve cleaning a bit, but I've come to the conclusion that has more to do with the extra 20 minutes of tumbling in detergent than it does with steam. The Add Steam option happens during the wash portion of the cycle, except when using the Sanitize cycle, where it takes place during the first rinse. I don't use it very often. 3) The default wash times are too short. I always use the Max Soil setting, which adds about 6 minutes of wash time. Fortunately, the washer remembers cycle settings, so it's not something I need to fiddle with on every load. My 'go-to' cycle for loads of greatly-stained kitchen whites is now Sanitize (1:47). I used to use Pre-Wash + Stain Treat + Heavy Cycle, but since the water never gets hot, the occasional greasy tomato-based stain wasn't fully removed. I now just use the Sanitize cycle, which gives you a great profile wash. The whole hot water issue is moot for most loads; I don't need it for most loads. OK, now for the things I like: 1) Cleaning (when wash time is lengthened) is excellent! I'm amazed that so little water can get loads so clean. 2) Capacity is off-the-hook. Interestingly, the Frigidaire website now lists the tub capacity as 4.4 cu. ft. When I bought the washer, it was listed as 4.8. Don't know what has prompted the change. I have washed a very heavy, bulky queen-sized comforter twice and it does a great job. Most of my loads fill the tub 1/2-2/3 full. It's nice to have the huge capacity when you need it, though. I can generally wash huge loads of whites only once a week, and I BobLoad® it with bath towels. Even tiny loads get proper lift-and-drop tumbling, as there is almost no standing water in the tub, just a sudsy foam. 3) The 1300 rpm spin speed is awesome. Drying time is reduced by about half compared to clothes spun in my 02 Frigidaire (950 rpm). 4) The balancing protocol is not too long, especially for the first two spins. It takes only 1-4 minutes for most loads. If a load is more unbalanced than it likes, it will do a few very low-speed interval spins to remove excess water, then tumble a bit and take off. The tub is so large that there isn't much room within the cabinet for it to be out-of-balance. 5) The recirculation which takes place is a great feature. Even very bulky or extra-large loads are completely saturated quickly, either with detergent-rich water, or fresh water (rinses). 6) The machine uses so little water (13-14 gallons for most loads) that I don't mind adding a Fresh Water (extra) Rinse for loads that have been dosed with liquid chlorine bleach or extra detergent. The Fresh Water rinse is a third rinse. 7) If your wash loads are relatively lightly soiled, default cycle times are short. Casual (Perm Press) is 37 mins; Normal is 40; Heavy is 47. Add 5-10 mins. for balancing protocols. Even with that, the cycle times are short. 8) Good value for money. You get a lot of high-end features for the approximately $1850 cost of this TOL set. I received a $50 rebate from my local utility, and another $200 from the state of Minnesota, which brought down the price to $1600. Considering a TOL LG or Whirlpool/Maytag washer costs around $1600- $1700 on its own, getting the pair for $1850 was a relative bargain! The Dryer: No complaints. Huge capacity, dries evenly, and doesn't over-dry. The Add Steam (which adds steam when load is nearly dry, but still heating) and Anti-Static (which sprays a bit of steam into the cool down) options get frequent use. Add Steam cuts down on wrinkling. I use it for loads of shirts, pants, etc. Not needed for loads of bath towels or kitchen whites. Anti-Static means no more static-cling for loads of dress shirts or man-made fibers, especially important since I no longer use fabric softener. An item or two will emerge with damp spots, but they dry quickly and leave no water mark. The 15-minute Steam Refresh cycle gets used almost daily, especially with pants, which get wrinkled but not dirty. It's also a great way to get wrinkles out of shirts worn for only a couple of hours. 
This post was last edited 12/08/2010 at 07:46 | ||
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| Post# 480325 , Reply# 1 12/8/2010 at 11:49 (4,879 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii) | ||
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| Post# 480357 , Reply# 2 12/8/2010 at 13:46 (4,879 days old) by alfer (San Jose, Ca.) | ||
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Besides the allergy cycle, how hot are the "whitest whites" or "quick sanitize" cycles? Do they trigger the internal heater? I probably would be interested in this machine, however there are times when hot water is needed. | ||
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Post# 480364 , Reply# 3 12/8/2010 at 14:30 (4,879 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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All "hot" water temps on any cycle (except Sanitize) are 105-110 degrees. If the incoming water is colder than that, it will heat the water to 105-110 degrees.
Although there is a Whitest Whites cycle, it is no different than the Heavy Cycle. The Whitest Whites cycle on some machines automatically adds an extra rinse, as they figure you're using more detergent/liquid chlorine bleach. This machine does not. You have to add the extra rinse yourself. The only way to get truly hot water is to use the Allergy option (heats to 132 degrees) or the Sanitize cycle (heats to 152 degrees. | ||
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Post# 480481 , Reply# 4 12/9/2010 at 02:40 (4,879 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Post# 480484 , Reply# 5 12/9/2010 at 04:21 (4,879 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA) |
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Eugene, thanks for the reviews! | ||
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Post# 480499 , Reply# 6 12/9/2010 at 07:02 (4,879 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Alex---
The bulky cycle doesn't seem to add any extra water, but there is more recirculation of water. You can add a little more water to any cycle by choosing the MAX FILL option, but I've only used it once. It didn't seem to enhance cleaning or rinsing, so I don't use it. I haven't tried the Quick Sanitize cycle. I should do that. I'm guessing that, like the regular Quick cycle, there is only one rinse. But that's just a guess. The regular Sanitize cycle is 1:47, and Quick Sanitize is supposed to take only an hour. I'll try it sometime and report back. Laundromat--- I didn't buy the pedestals because I need to use the top of the washer & dryer for folding, etc. There's a cupboard hanging directly above the them (not visible in the above photo), and I would have had to take that out in order to use pedestals. Every time I have to reach way in to the back of that huge tub to grab something, I think "Boy, pedestals would have been nice!" LOL. | ||
| Post# 480569 , Reply# 7 12/9/2010 at 16:17 (4,878 days old) by Maytagbear (N.E. Ohio) | ||
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Reaching- For pity's sake, Eugene.....you're a cook. Get a long set of spring loaded kitchen tongs, and dedicate them to laundry use. Lawrence/Maytagbear | ||
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Post# 481106 , Reply# 8 12/12/2010 at 04:22 (4,876 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Lawrence---Now, why didn't I think of that?! Up to this point, I've been considering it my bending/stretching exercise for the day, LOL.
However...I managed to hurt myself twice yesterday; once when I slipped on the ice blowing snow in the driveway, and again when I was carrying a huge load of laundry down stairs and missed the last step. Both my knees, my right ankle and my right elbow feel like they've been pummeled with baseball bats. I have no aspirin or Aleve in the house, and won't be able to go anywhere 'til this crazy blizzard is played out this afternoon. I'm making food for a big co-hosted Christmas party at a friend's house this evening, and I still have to blow out my amazingly-drifted driveway, again. Oy vey, if this is what NFL players go through each week, no wonder they get addicted to pain pills. At any rate, I may just use my pair of barbecue-length tongs to reach for those small item at the back of the tub, for a few days. I feel like a 90-year old, LOL. | ||
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Post# 481257 , Reply# 10 12/12/2010 at 23:24 (4,875 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Jim: Here's a photo from the installation manual. To answer your question: Yes! They can be stacked.
I strongly suggest you get a model with an Allergy option or cycle and a Sanitize cycle. The owner's manual shows the control panel for the 4472, 4473 and 4474. The '72 and '73 are shown to have an Allergy cycle (which would heat water to 132 degrees.) HOWEVER, an Allergy cycle is not listed in the product features/specification list. I'd call Frigidaire (or stop by a dealer and check out the control panel) to be sure the '72 and '73 have an Allergy cycle on the dial. 'Allergy' is an option which can be added to certain cycles (Heavy, Sanitize, Pet Beds, Kids Wear) on my machine, the '74. It would appear all three models have a Sanitize cycle, but that's quite a time commitment, and you don't always need 152 degree hot water. 132 degrees is plenty hot for most applications. I would not recommend one of these washers without the 132 and 152 degree wash options. If you've seen the '73 and '74 for the same price, definitely go for the '74. 
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| Post# 481877 , Reply# 12 12/15/2010 at 14:43 (4,872 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
You pay extra.... | ||
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Post# 482013 , Reply# 13 12/16/2010 at 08:47 (4,871 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Cycle Update: QUICK SANITIZE
I finally tried one of the Frigidaire 4474's 'specialty cycles', Quick Sanitize. It defaults to the sanitize water temp, extra-light soil, max spin speed. It clocks on at 59 minutes. Interestingly, the screen says "WASHING" during the 44-minute wash portion of the cycle. The screen reads "SANITIZING" when you use the full-length, NSF-certified Sanitize cycle. The water was 138 degrees coming out of the drain hose. I'm sure there was some cooling of the water as it routed through the drain system, but I have my doubts the water temp reached 152 degrees during the wash. This is followed by one rinse and a final spin. However, this cycle is another good way to get truly hot water in a reasonable 59-minute cycle. You'd have to follow this single-rinse cycle with a FreshWater Rinse cycle (rinse and spin), which would add another 15 minutes. The Quick Sanitize cycle doesn't allow you to opt for an extra rinse. Were I to use this cycle for loads of highly stained kitchen whites (adding liquid chlorine bleach), I'd follow it with a 20-minute Quick Wash cycle, which would give you two water changes, thus a total of three rinses. The combined cycles, clocking in at 1:19, would still be substantially shorter than the NSF-certified Sanitize cycle (1:47, which includes an extra rinse, since I use LCB). This post was last edited 12/16/2010 at 09:46 | ||
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Post# 482021 , Reply# 14 12/16/2010 at 09:47 (4,871 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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| Post# 483068 , Reply# 15 12/21/2010 at 00:23 (4,867 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii) | ||
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My red Affinity gets super hot during the sanitize cycle.I pour extra water in using an older Tide HE bottle and hot water from the tap. I have poured as many as 5 gallons more water down the dispenser cavity.The water level goes just above the lower area of the window. Similar to the commercial/European models.
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Post# 483837 , Reply# 17 12/23/2010 at 17:46 (4,864 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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I think I've used Rinse & Moild on my Kenmore Elite Tall Tub 3 times in the 4 years I've had it. Just like Jim, my dishes sit for days and days on end. I've noticed several of the new Enmore elite HE wash system machihnes with the Powerwash (???) system do not have R&H, only the top two models I do believe. I've also noticed severral of the Kitchenaids which don't' have a filter also don't have R&H any more.
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Post# 491269 , Reply# 18 1/24/2011 at 16:02 (4,832 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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WTF!?
I wandered over to Consumer Reports online to see if any new washers have been tested. The answer: Yes. To my astonishment, the new Frigidaire Affinity models have dropped down to the bottom one-third of the rankings, and the score for the TOL 4474 dropped from 79 (or thereabouts) to 65. I can understand the machine moving down in the ranks if newer models from other brands test better than it does, but why the drop in its score? That should remain consistent. All of the "red dot" ratings are the same; only the numerical score has been altered. When the 4474 first appeared on CR's online list back in August, it was ranked higher than all the older Frigidaire models, and it was in the top one-third of the list. Now, it's ranked lower than the old Frigidaire models. Funny, I haven't noticed a drop in performance in my machine, LOL! In fact, the 1:45 (including extra rinse) Sanitize cycle has yet to leave so much as a trace of any stain behind in my mega-sized loads of highly stained kitchen whites. I think this warrants an e-mail to the wizards at CR for an explanation... UPDATE: I sent CR an e-mail, questioning the change in model 4474's total score. I also asked why, when it was previously ranked above all older/previously tested Frigidaire models, it has now dropped below them. I requested a reply, and will share it with you if/when one is received. This post was last edited 01/24/2011 at 16:21 | ||
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Post# 491319 , Reply# 20 1/24/2011 at 21:53 (4,832 days old) by peteski50 (New York) |
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Frigidaire Review!
Hi Eugene,
I can't understand either my friend Louis has the simular model FAFS4272L and is very pleased. Please see post 32200. I saw it run a few loads some weeks back and I was very impressed. It seems CR favors the machines like LG that are useless. I also have 2 other friends that have the previous affinity models and are very pleased with the results. My Mom has the square door gallery model for almost 6 years and is very pleased with the results. I think they made a lot of improvments with these newer models. Please keep us posted Peter | ||
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Post# 491349 , Reply# 21 1/24/2011 at 23:52 (4,832 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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3beltwesty--- I realize that Consumer Reports occasionally 'raises the bar' when products show an overall improvement. That usually happens every few years. But that doesn't explain why previous-generation Affinity and Gallery Frigidaires were ranked lower than the new machine in August, but now out-rank the new machine in January. Obviously nothing major has changed to either generation since August. I'm not aware that any updates were made to the 2940 since August.
Also, I remember clearly that the top-rated model back in August was the LG-made Kenmore 4027, scoring an 84. While that machine has since dropped to third place---the current top-rated model is the just-tested new Whirlpool WFW94HEX, scoring an 87---the 4027's score is still 84. Why would the Frigidaire drop from the upper 70's to a 65 within five months? When CR retools their testing standards, they usually state those changes in print, and then the 'red dot' ratings generally change, too. For instance, a machine that earned an Excellent (full red dot) score for water usage in 2004 would probably only get a Very Good (half a red dot) score in 2011. Did they mistakenly score the entire new Frigidaire series too high in August, or is the current score incorrect? I'm assuming they did their usual full battery of tests on it last summer---they always do that before placing a model in the ratings. Again, why do other machines still have the same numerical score they did last summer, except for the new Frigidaires? One of the scores must be an error; which one? | ||
| Post# 491473 , Reply# 23 1/25/2011 at 17:37 (4,831 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii) | ||
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Post# 491543 , Reply# 24 1/25/2011 at 22:28 (4,831 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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JIM-- I think they test washers using the Normal cycle because that's the "go-to" cycle for most people. It's also the one the energy use ratings are based on. I've stated a couple of times that the normal cycle on my Frigidaire has too short a wash period for the size of load it can handle. I always use the Max Soil level option, which boosts the wash time on the normal cycle from 15 to 21 minutes, and the heavy cycle from 20 to 26 minutes. In fact, I use the Max Soil level for all cycles (although you can't select that with the Delicates cycle).
The giant loads of highly-stained kitchen whites get the Sanitize cycle, which tumbles the clothes in detergent for about an hour, boosting the temperature up to 152 degrees from a lukewarm fill. It's provides a great profile wash, and has yet to leave even a trace of a stain behind. The cycle, at Max Soil setting with an extra rinse (I use liquid chlorine bleach) is 1:47. It has dawned on me that I could drop the soil setting to Extra Light and save 12 minutes on the cycle, but I haven't changed the setting, yet. The Anti-Static option on the dryer eliminates the need to use fabric softener. The air in my house is bone dry this time of year due to the forced-air heating system. Since buying the new washer and dryer, I haven't once used any type of fabric softener. When drying loads of dress shirts and pants, I choose the Add Steam option plus the Anti-Static option. An item or two will emerge with sizeable damp spots when using the Anti-Static option, but those spots dry quickly and have never left a water mark on my mostly solid-color shirts. But there is absolutely no static cling. I dry big "permanent press" tablecloths, which used to generate static in the winter even when using fabric softener. Not a bit of static with the new dryer, and again, no fabric softener. Although I run a Clean Washer cycle when it prompts me to (every 50 cycles), I've heard enough stories of waxy, stinky build-up in ultra-low water use machines that I just decided not to use softener any more. And due to similar build-up stories about dryers---clogged filters, etc., I figured it would be best not to dry clothes with softener residue. And I'm saving some $$ by not having to buy Downy, anymore. LAUNDROMAT-- Spin direction: I actually had to go downstairs and run a spin only cycle to find out, LOL! The answer: Counter-clockwise. Funny, though---had I not checked, I could have guessed it was clockwise. | ||
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Post# 491592 , Reply# 26 1/26/2011 at 06:29 (4,831 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Jim---I use Tide Washing Machine Cleaner, simply because it is the only one available in my tiny burg. The manual says to use a huge amount of liquid chlorine bleach---2 or 3 cups, if memory serves me---and while I use bleach in one or two loads a week, it's only about 1/3 of a cup per load. I just can't shake my bleach habit, LOL!
I blame Frigidaire for making the default cycle wash times too short. I predict that, after the downgrading by Consumer Reports, they'll lengthen wash times and improve that cleaning score. The machine tests so well in other areas, but the cleaning score---as it should---gets the most weight in scoring. | ||
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