Thread Number: 32029
198? Miele W5510 415volt commercial front loader on ebay
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Post# 482997   12/20/2010 at 19:25 (4,846 days old) by electroslumber ()        

I saw this three phase Miele on Ebay. It's in Victoria and the start is a not unreasonable $500. Made in West Germany. It looks like a commercial machine that has had very little use OR one that has not been abused. I think it would be a lot of fun to own and use! Is there someone out there who would be interested in buying themselves a genuine West German Miele for Christmas perhaps? OK, It's not a FLUID DRIVE, but it looks like the ultimate foreign front loader!




Post# 483180 , Reply# 1   12/21/2010 at 12:47 (4,846 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
please post a link

please post a link

Post# 483182 , Reply# 2   12/21/2010 at 12:55 (4,846 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Here you go

CLICK HERE TO GO TO brisnat81's LINK on eBay


Post# 483244 , Reply# 3   12/21/2010 at 19:50 (4,845 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        

mielerod69's profile picture
They are also selling the matching 10kg dryer

CLICK HERE TO GO TO mielerod69's LINK on eBay


Post# 483252 , Reply# 4   12/21/2010 at 20:21 (4,845 days old) by favorit ()        
That is a genuine CORDES

Miele in 1986 purchased Cordes plants in Oelde. Since then commercial laundry appliances are made in Oelde, residential ones are made in Guetersloh. This is a Cordes washer

CLICK HERE TO GO TO favorit's LINK


Post# 483254 , Reply# 5   12/21/2010 at 20:24 (4,845 days old) by favorit ()        
and this is a Miele WS 5514

that still has the Cordes design like the WS 5510 you posted

Post# 483257 , Reply# 6   12/21/2010 at 20:27 (4,845 days old) by favorit ()        
Cordes CW 3061 fascia

--

Post# 483261 , Reply# 7   12/21/2010 at 20:38 (4,845 days old) by favorit ()        
and this is a miele .... but not a washer

any clue ?? [farmers please shut up ! ;-)) ]

Post# 483325 , Reply# 8   12/22/2010 at 02:27 (4,845 days old) by electroslumber ()        

Dear Brisnat81, thanks for providing the link, I was still asleep and haven't mastered posting links or loading photos directly from my camera. Hopefully someone in Australia will buy the Miele/Cordes and have an awesome twin set for Christmas!

Post# 483329 , Reply# 9   12/22/2010 at 03:15 (4,845 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
wow 415 volts to run that?

jetcone's profile picture
Is that what 3 phase is in Austrailia? Or do you have two 3 phases, 220V and 415V?

Nice machine, especially at 10kgs a load!!
I wonder how fast it spins?


Post# 483336 , Reply# 10   12/22/2010 at 03:45 (4,845 days old) by electroslumber ()        
three phase in Australia

Dear jetcone, as far as I know, in Australia, we generally have single phase 240 volts and three phase 415 volts. Apparently three phase power in homes in the United States is almost non existant, don't know why. Single phase motors above 10hp (7500watts) are rare anywhere. For some reason it is not uncommon to see three phase power in Australia, the benefits are generally much higher starting torque and higher efficiency overall, reducing the need for a capacitor. I am curious as to whether the WS 5510 Miele spins at maximum rpm the moment you shut the door, I'm currently trying to find its maximum spin speed, I wouldn't be surprised if it was 2500+ on three phase! Regards from Australia, Paul

Post# 483364 , Reply# 11   12/22/2010 at 06:30 (4,845 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Only three phase power for resedences in the US would be multifamily buildings-apartments and condos.Some VERY large single family homes have three phase to run the larger AC units.In the US I have seen single phase motors up to 25Hp-for crop dryer blowers on very rural farms that don't have three phase.These motors are cap start and run.Wished three phase was more available for single homes-honestly it would be more efficient for larger motors used in the household.

Post# 483406 , Reply# 12   12/22/2010 at 09:16 (4,845 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
3 phase in USA houses is about non existant

In the USA 3 Phase is in almost no houses, unless one has a giant totally custom house or one wants a fancy setup for 3 phase milling machine.

There is one house a block from me that has 3 phase. The guy who owned that house back in 1968 worked for the local power company. There is small underground 3 HP sewer lift station motor on his property's lotline. He designed the layout of the lines when the neighborhood was designed; since he worked for the power company. Thus there is a 50 KVa transformer on the pole; and a real dinky 5KVa transformer that provides the 3 Phase's other leg. With a tiny load; one often has just two transformers. There are 3 Hot 19.2 KV lines that enter the neighborhood a mile away. Then they peel off two of them and they go to the lift station and guys house to. The guy had a machine shop in his back yard with 3 Phase.

In a USA McDonalds or small Laundromat; many times the service is 120V/208V in Y. They run the AC's off of 208V 3 Phase and the 120 volts off of 120 volts line to neutral. The dryers often are restrung for 208 Volts. Most commerical laundromats use gas, thus this restringing is not so common.

In a big Office Depot or Home Depot (building supply) store; in the USA the feed is many times 480 Volts 3 Phase; 277 Volts line to Neutral. They run the big AC units off of 480 volts 3 phase. The lighting is often run on 277 Volts line to neutral. To run the "normal" 120 volts stuff they have dry inside step down transformers, to run the cash registers and computers.

In my whole lifetime I have really only seen or heard of 2 or 3 houses that actually have 3 phase AC power in the USA. Many folks like me just run a phase convertor, mine has a 5HP 3 phase motor that is started on single phase; that provides the missing leg to run another 3 phase motor.

My business has a 3 Phase service, but it is just for 1 AC unit. It is an odd settup, with 2 hots that are 120 volts to ground, and the wildcat/stinger hot phase at 208Volts to ground. One has 240 Volts between each hot leg. It is a Delta 3 Phase; where the neutral is between 2 legs and for lighting. The neutral is not used normally with a 3 phase device with this settup.

At my USA house, I am a ultra rare case where I do have 3 phase secondary on the transformer's pole that is 200 feet. This is because the 3 phase lift station and old Power CO guy's wood shop is there. To actually get a new 3 phase entrance at my house would still be a boatload of money. The power Co would probably up the little 5KVa to 15Kva that is paired to the big 50Kva. Then they would have to add 200 to 250 feet of secondary for the extra phase to my house. They I would have to get a new gooseneck and 3 phase service box; and permits. This would be probably 3 to 6 grand or more.

Small Apartments in the USA are often 120 volt single phase 208 Volts 3 phase in Y. Or "houses" that are really served by one meter like an old folks village, where a "house" might be really 4 separate apartments under one roof.



Post# 483408 , Reply# 13   12/22/2010 at 09:32 (4,845 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
helicopter pad

Having a real 3 phase service on a single family house in the USA is rarer than having ones one airstrip or helicopter landing pad.

A well known local doctor has a helicopter pad in his backyard, but just single phase AC service.


Post# 483414 , Reply# 14   12/22/2010 at 09:58 (4,845 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

not to get off topic on this thread but...
I sure wish I had 3 phase service to my house. I'm about 250FT from the main road, to which the pole has 3 pole pigs on it that look to be tied together, A supply line from these go across that street and underground, which my guess it that it feeds the local businesses. On that side of the street there is a factory that manufactures nails, and what used to be a lumber mill, that has been converted to what look like a repo business.

I have 3 phase that I make with a rotary phase converter(which sucks) to run my commercial FLs in the house. There are several things that I have to do to my 3 phase supply when it comes out of the converter, on order for it to be good enough for the machines. I would say that this method uses more electricity then having a dedicated 3 phase supply from the utility company.

My converter uses 5 HP 3 phase motor for 3rd leg, and some other things, line reactors and another 3 phase motor that I run with the FL machines to balance the legs more. Since one of my machines uses a VFD system its supply has to be a little better. So what I get in the end is 228V(1,2), 230V(2,3), 236V(1,3) Delta configuration. It's not perfect, but the best that I can get with what I have and the space, without spending a significant amount of money.


Post# 483493 , Reply# 15   12/22/2010 at 14:24 (4,845 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        
easily available

In Australia, most houses have a maxium supply of 240v single phase with 80amps. If you need more than 80amps, then you get Three Phase with 240v from Phase to Neutral and 415V phase to phase. ​ ​I'm blown away when I read about US houses with 200amp single phase panels, over here you'd just have 3 x 80amps lines for a total 240amps. ​ ​95% of houses here have 4 wire's running past the door on the power poles, so its just a matter of whether you have Single or 3 Phase connected. The other advantage of 240v is that the transformers are about every 500m instead of at every house.

Post# 483520 , Reply# 16   12/22/2010 at 16:05 (4,844 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

Here in the USA houses started with 30amp 110 volt service back 100 years ago; then it went to 60 amp. 240 volts was not even required on a new house until about 1947; many of these were 240 volts and 60 amp service. 100 amps with 240 volts was more common with a 1960's house. The house I am in was built about 1970 has a 240 volt service of 200 amps; and most neighbors had 100 amps. Today most all houses start with a 200 amp 240 volt service here. Building codes for new house today will not allow less than this; unless one has a hut. One cannot legally use a smaller service; unless one has few circuits like a tiny building or roadside sign. Most neighborhoods in the USA have single transformers that feed a few houses. There may or may not be "on the pole" more than 1 high kilo voltage leg. Typically in busy places on a main road the "feeder" has all 3 hot many kilovolt legs; plus one neutral if in Y, which is typical. Then when there are a few houses off a side street; they run just say "leg B" down the side street, with the neutral to a single transformer. Thus the average US *home* consumer has just *one* transformer that feeds the house, there are no others for a 3 phase settup. The next side street peels off "leg C" the next side street leg A. Thus a US typical home to be run on 3 phase requires 1 or 2 more transformers on the pole; and there is often just 1 high kilovolt leg there too. The only stuff a normal US home runs with 240 volts if a larger AC unit above 1.5 tons, the kitchen stove, the dryer, maybe strip heat or a big electric water heater. In many places where houses are close; one transformer say about 35 to 50 KVa feeds about 3 to 5 houses. When Mr Jones next door 5 ton AC unit starts; it pulls say 150 amps at start; maybe 30 when running. Everybodys lights on that transformer dim a tad for fraction of a second. The average US house really has no need for 3 Phase power, thus the layout of the poles, transformers and feeders are done for cost reasons. To add 3 phase would double the amount of wire and transformers

Post# 483663 , Reply# 17   12/23/2010 at 00:06 (4,844 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

In most areas--the three phase primary MV feeders are ALREADY there-so three phase feeds to each building or home is not that much of a problem.A former employee who retired from where I work has his own machine shop-he has two machines-an engine lathe and a milling machine-surplus and they both have three phase motors-He told me for a long time they sat in the garage-getting three phase to his house was expensive-but low and behind what did he encounter at a pawn shop of all places---A rotary phase convertor-all complete-he bought it for only 10 bucks and wiring his machines to it-now they work fine.His hobby is rebuilding various tractor engines.He has a small collection of tractors.For many of those he has to make his own parts.Some areas where I am there are no 3 ph primary feeders-just single and two phase-so you have to use the open delta "Scott" transformer system to get open delta 220-240V.It uses two single phase transformers-usually pole pigs.the "dump" out here has it-to run the compactor motor.the motor is 15hp.In my neighborhood-URD system is used-75-100Kva transformers-usually 3-4 houses per transformer.
For the open delta Scott three pahse-quality of the power is about what you get from a convertor-its fine for motors-but broadcast transmitters that need three phase is another issue.You have to make sure you connect filament supplies,LV supplies to the 2 HOT legs-NOT the "Wild wire"I have encountered a couple of stations where they run the transmitter from a convertor-FM xmitters run on them better than AM transmitters.the convertor makes the strangest "talking" noises when you run the AM xmitter from it.It works but not the best.Most transmitter warrantees are VOIDED by the manufacturer if you run the transmitter from a Scott supply or convertor-these stations have to live with that-the transmitter location may not have ANY access to 3 Ph power at all.Just one single ph med voltage feeder line.


Post# 483670 , Reply# 18   12/23/2010 at 01:24 (4,844 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
IIRC

launderess's profile picture
Some modern high end front loaders (Miele?) have built in phase converters.

Three phase motors are far more durable and powerful than single, so it would be in an effort to get around washers being marketed in areas where anything besides single phase is not common.

FWIU three phase motors are much more durable and powerful than single phase. This is one of the reasons commercial/laundromats seldom (aside from some special product lines) have the later. It is also the reason why say a Wascomat 50lb washer can spin a full capacity wet load as if it were a sack of feathers. More over it can do so over and over again, day in and day out.


Post# 483673 , Reply# 19   12/23/2010 at 01:48 (4,844 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Three Phase and Other Sagas In Regards To American Homes

launderess's profile picture
United States started early with wiring towns, cities and other areas with electric power. At first the skirmish had to be settled between DC and AC, once that dust up was taken care of and wiring stretched across the landscape, there was a problem.. aside from lighting what sort of demand was there for the juice?

So GE, and countless other appliance makers began to turn out various appliances, gadgets, and much else that we take for granted today (such as the elevator, subways, street cars, etc) to run on electric power. Aside from some commercial applications, most American homes did not require large amounts of power (the average home perhaps had a few lights, maybe an electric fridge (though plenty still had ice boxes), a toaster, and perhaps a clothes iron), not much demand there. Nor was there any need, outside of commercial spheres for powerful motors that required three phase.

Heating of homes and or water is mostly done in the United States via petrol (natural gas, propane, or oil, but at times in history coal and wood as well), so again large amounts of power aren't needed.

All this meant that once the AC DC mess was settled, the question could have been 120v vs 220v, with the later being more efficient for delivering large loads, but again such loads weren't often required, so the former won.

In Europe WWII presented many countries with the chance to redesign their electrical generating and delivery systems as they were rebuilding from all the damage. The decision was made in most countries to go with 220v for various reasons.

Unlike the United States, there is a need for many European/UK homes to have large power draws. Heating (both of water and home), washing machines and later dishwashers that heat cold water, and all manner of appliances which require large amounts of juice.

My Pfaff ironer for instance pulls 3.05kW of power on 220v/50hz. In the United States normally one is only going to find an outlet supplying this as a "dryer" or "range" wiring, but IIRC most European/UK homes have this sort of thing all over the house. Have seen older ironers from Miele in German domestic use that run on 400w of power. Something you would never find in the United States.

Indeed one of the problems Miele USA had in sales was that so few American homes had 220v power. Many of those that did it was often used for the range or dryer, and if those outlets were being used or had to get to, it required rewiring (added cost). Then there were those who wanted a Miele washer, dishwasher, dryer, etc but didn't have 220v power anywhere in their homes, thus would have to pay to have it brought from the street. In the case of areas with large numbers of mullt-family dwellings, approval from the landlord, co-op or condo board for this work for that sort of work was not always given. In the end Miele finally gave up and now only sells 120v washers here, however dryers and some other kitchen appliances still require 220v.

Converting the United States to 220v power is not going to happen anytime soon. It could cost *billions* to upgrade,rewire and do all the necessary work to the electrical grid. Not to mention many homes/buildings aren't wired to take advantage, nor would many owners be willing to pay for it either.

Here in NYC there are lots of persons living in apartments with barely 60amp service. I mean literally one or two outlets in the main room. Lots of extension cords, power strips, adapters, and "multiple outlet" adapters are used as persons try to cope. With all the new technology from computers, printers, chargers, cordless phones, microwaves, televisions, DVRs, and so and and so forth, the area around many outlets is a tangle of wires.


Post# 483720 , Reply# 20   12/23/2010 at 09:31 (4,844 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
USA is already 220 Volts; few folks have 3 phase at the pole

Re : "Converting the United States to 220v power is not going to happen anytime soon. "

Most houses built after 1947 have the nominal 230 to 240 volts already. It is used for the larger loads, kitchen range, dryers, big AC units. A normal person in the USA has no use for a 230 volt socket in one's bedrooms, bathrooms, family rooms. All ones stuff one buys is for 115/120 volts; this goes back for over 100 years. Thus things like vacuum cleaners, TV's, radios, lights are all made here for 115 volts. The number of houses that still have just a 110 volt service is in the parts per million level; about unheard of. There are more folks driving 6 volt cars and Chevy Vegas than those who have just 120 volt service.


Even if I added 230 volt plugs in each of my houses rooms; what would I use them for? I could buy bulbs, vacuum cleaners, TV's from Europe? When I visted England and saw their 4 watt alarm clock connected to 220 volt plugs as big as the one on my dryer; it seems absurd.

RE : "In most areas--the three phase primary MV feeders are ALREADY there-so three phase feeds to each building or home is not that much of a problem."


Actually it is a massive problem.


In the places I have lived like in the midwest, deep south and and far west this is NOT true. I am registered professional EE.

The main feeder that comes out of a substation has all 3 phases, and in many neighborhoods they just run a single HV line down each side street. Thus you comment is true if you are on the main drag street and not true on the bulk of the side streets.

In the neighborhood I live in, the ONLY places houses have all 3 lines out front is the path to the old well at the end of the neighborhood. My road has 2 hot lines since it has a lift station 300 feet away run by a dinky 3HP 3 phase motor. About 10 percent of the houses are along the path with all 3 phases and another say 15 percent have 2 hots. The bulk 75 percent just have 1 hot phase. This is a place built up from 1968 to today. The line voltage is actually quite high 13.2 KV line to Neutral and 19.2 Kv line to line. Because of Hurricances and major rebuilds, the line voltage here is often more modern than more stable areas. In California the places I lived had 7200 Line to neutral in Y and another place had 4800 Volts in Delta.


This setup is what they did in California and Indiana too; they only run what is required. It is more common where houses are farther apart. If I take the many 8 houses I have lived in ; only 2 had 3 phase at the pole; the rest where spurs off the 3 phase feeder. In the house I rented in college, the nearest pole with 3 hots was 2 miles away to the main road. With a house in Michigan it was about 1/4 mile away.

In country areas a main road often has the 3 full hot high voltage phases; and they peel off one hot that might feed houses over several miles. When the number of houses grows they add the 2nd hot high voltage phase, and just move some of the transformers to the 2nd phase.



With a house in California there was 3 phase on the pole, but I lived only 1/2 mile from the substation on a road 4 lanes wide. With my buddys place out in the country, the single hot phase runs about 1 mile. Here where I live today there are 2 hot phases on the pole since a dinky lift station is close.

*****To put 3 real hot lines on each customers pole would require DOUBLING the current copper lines already in existance is what IEEE Spectrum mentioned awhile back.*****

This differs with you comment that "the three phase primary MV feeders are ALREADY there-"




Then one would have to add 2 to 3 times the number of transformers. Then would have to restring the millions of houses and add 3 phase power boxes. Then one would have to swap put and scrap a million meters.



This would cost many thousands per house and would double or triple ones electric bill. IEEE Spectrum went into this a decade or two ago, there is no return for such a project.


The average US house does NOT have a 3 phase set of high voltage lines on the pole. If you are on the main route or feeder you do. The bulk of houses have just one hot line; this is truer when houses are FAR apart; and less true when they are close together.

Where I lived in the Detroit area; they ran a 3 phase line up one North South road in the 1960's subdivision; and each each west +/- road that was 1/2 mile long ran off a phase. Thus streets a and d and on phase A, streets b and e ran off phase B, streets c and f ran off phase C. With a power outage with phase A, every 3 street was dark.



Post# 483723 , Reply# 21   12/23/2010 at 09:45 (4,844 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
To add 230 volts to a US houses rooms

Here in the USA to add 230 volts to a room in ones house is not such a massive task or maybe a very tough job too.

It really is one of the PITA task of running wires in an existing house. Most folks already have 230 volts at ones house at the service panel. We may or may not have enough space to add some double pole 230 volt breakers.

A larger task for me is crawling around in the attic, boring holes.

Folks due this for 230 volt ham radio Linear amps; for 230 volt welders; for adding a 230 volt AC unit; etc.

Retro fitting new plugs is easy when one has no walls, like post Katrina after a house flooding.

In a big AC window unit that is say above 15000 BTUH; they typically then are 230 volts.


Post# 483959 , Reply# 22   12/24/2010 at 05:35 (4,843 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

I had an extra 30A 240V line run in to my kitchen to run the Advantium oven.Wasn't a big deal-took the electrician all of only 10min.In some homes the 240V outlets are added to run yes,welders and large power tools.One persaon I know outhere-besides the one with the machine shop-has two 240V outlets in his garage-30A240V for his table saw,and another 60A one to run a planer with a 7hp motor.And if need be he can run both tools at once.And in the future we will probably see more 240V outlets in the garage to run electric car chargers.The power tool outlets could serve that duty-charge the car when the tool or welder isn't in use.And yes I knew of one ham radio operator that installed 240V outlet in his shack to run a linear power amp.Some of these can run from 120V or 240V.Its better to run it from 240V if you can.Come to think of it another ham radio man had like the woodworker-had two 240V outlets to run his two linear amps-Henry Radio 1Kw.And yes another non ham but broadcast radio fan that installed a 240V 30A outlet to run a 1Kw AM broadcast transmitter-these run neatly off 240V-30A.This man had an interesting collection of 1K AM transmitters he got for free or low cost from the stations he worked on.I worked on some of his rigs to get them working-and just to run into a dummy load-most 1Kw AM transmitters had a load built into the transmitter.You moved a J-plug to select RF out to the antenna or the internal load.

Post# 484075 , Reply# 23   12/24/2010 at 12:44 (4,843 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Operative Word Here Is "Own"

launderess's profile picture
One's own home.

There is not a small number of persons living in the United States whom live in apartment,multi-family dwellings and or otherwise do not own their own property outright.Even when one does own the property (or shares in the case of a co-op), many condo boards and so forth have something to say about extensive electrical work.

Then there is the cost. Maybe elsewhere electricans are cheap, and while one agrees the job of running a "simple" 220v line and or installing outlets is not heavy work for a good electrical professional, that does not mean the cost is not dear. Here in NYC you can easily look at bills anywhere from 1K north to even 3K or more, depending on how much work has to be done.

If there even isn't 220v service in the building (common enough here), much less the apartment, you are talking about calling out the power company to run upgraded lines from the street to the buildng, and all the other work to bring the juice into the building, then run it up to the apartment.

Obviously not enough persons had 220v service, and or were willing to install it to purchase Miele washers in great numbers. That company simply gave up and after decades of towing the line *we don't/won't produce 110v washing machines* , now they are the only machines imported to the USA from that vendor.



Post# 484154 , Reply# 24   12/25/2010 at 00:20 (4,842 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Yes-that is a factor-do you own the home and does it have a 240-120V feed.At one time I even ran a 240V line to replace one at a freinds house for his AC.Used the old cable as a pull tape for the new one-EASY.And our job passed inspection.
sounds like in NYC it is a big deal to add an extra 240V outlet for your place.And if if you did live in an apartment-I suppose most NYC folks do-the 240V outlet is out of the question entirely.So you are limited to 120V appliances only-unless the place came with 240V for the range.Or for apartments-208V(or a gas range) range.In the apartments I lived in they were fed with 208-120V 3 ph.The apartment HVAC ran from the 208V.The other loads in the home were 120V.The building where I work is fed with 4160V 3Ph-main building power to run lighting,HVAC,is 208-120V 3Ph 200KVA.Another LV supply is 300KVA 230V 3ph to run blowers,water pumps in some of our transmitters.That 415V washer I could run it at my workplace-would have to "borrow" the 3Ph 400-415V from one of the two Europian made transmitters we have here-Germany,Switzerland.500Kw SW AM.


Post# 484156 , Reply# 25   12/25/2010 at 00:30 (4,842 days old) by cornutt (Huntsville, AL USA)        

A lot of houses built in the Southeast U.S. between about 1950 and 1980 have 230V, 15 or 20A outlets in places in the house where window air conditioners would have been used.

Post# 484173 , Reply# 26   12/25/2010 at 02:42 (4,842 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
QUOTE: Converting the United States to 220v power is not going to happen anytime soon. It could cost *billions* to upgrade,rewire and do all the necessary work to the electrical grid. Not to mention many homes/buildings aren't wired to take advantage, nor would many owners be willing to pay for it either.


I took this to mean ridding us of 110v and having 220v hot to neutral.


QUOTE: Here in NYC there are lots of persons living in apartments with barely 60amp service. I mean literally one or two outlets in the main room.

The buidlng in which I reside was constructed in 1946. There is 110v 30a service to each aparment. Every 8 apartmens (as the main service) are served with 100a 110/220v service.

BTW 200a 110/220v residential serivce means that one can pull 200a per hot leg or 400a in total.


AFAIK NYC ORDINANCES (LAWS ON A LOCAL/CITY LEVEL) ONLY REQUIRE 40a 110/220V service in an aparment (where, heat, cooking and hot water for the taps are not electric). That is 80 amps total with 40 per to leag.

Laws were changed decades ago to require an oultet(powerpoint) every six liner feet. The intention was to have one outlet per wall (side of a room) in a "standard" 12 x 12 foot(bed)room.

The law was futher modified such that isolated walls -- areas broken up by doors or doorways of a certain sixe (20 feet or more?) msut also now have an outlet to avoid stringing extension cords across doorway thresholds.


When gauging main electrical service to residences, let us also not forget that an electrical load of the same wattage will require double the amperage on a 110v system as they do on a 220v system.





This post was last edited 12/25/2010 at 02:57
Post# 484174 , Reply# 27   12/25/2010 at 03:03 (4,842 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
Why is 277v/480v used in commercial / industrial settings?

Is the intent to keep voltages as close to but under 500v?

One would think the logical choice to accompamy a 3-phase 110/208v system to be 220v/416v, no?

Voltages can be easily transformed, it is too bad there are 50Hz and 60Hz standards, THAT is killer.




Post# 484181 , Reply# 28   12/25/2010 at 06:36 (4,842 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

480-277V POPULARITY-Its the second most common LV usage voltage in the US-its said the ancestory of 480V 3ph came about from old subway systems-the 480V was rectified to run the subway cars.Now it is common for motors,broadcast transmitters(50Kw AM-some TV)Lighting equipment runs from 277V.Flourescent and HID.480V-277 like 208-120 is with us to stay.Yes-too the frequency diffrence-but with electronically controlled motors and VFD in equipment-this is becoming less of a problem.An older industrial 3ph voltage was 575V-not used much anymore-used for large motors-480V can do the same thing.for really large motors-run them from MV-2500V,4160V 3ph.


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