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Post# 485053   12/29/2010 at 17:59 (4,865 days old) by SuperElectronic (London, UK)        

Hello folks!

Back at the end of April my parents decided to move home. This led to some re-jigging of the laundry equipment: I got our 14 year old Hotpoint WM12 and the parents purchased a Hoover OPH616 for just shy of £300 (I gather it was subject to some kind of discount). My Mother had decided that the Hotpoint was not long for the world, it was too noisy and the new house had no hot water connection. Now, whilst it wouldn't have been my choice for Ma and Pa, given the very mixed reputation for reliabilty Hoover now enjoys, what's done is done and I thought I'd do a little presentation. Many of the British contingent will no doubt be ready to spit venom but everyone's entitled to an opinion, after all!

So here's a pic to start off...




Post# 485056 , Reply# 1   12/29/2010 at 18:10 (4,865 days old) by SuperElectronic (London, UK)        
Statistics

 This machine is rated as follows:

A+ for energy (1.02 kwh for a 6kg load on Cottons 60C)
A for washing ability
A for spin efficiency (apparently 1600 rpm = 44% residual moisture)

The test cycle uses 45l water

Controls are fairly basic: one dial to select the programme and four option buttons:

Spin speed: none - medium - maximum (max is 1600 but medium varies; usually 800)
Delay start: 3, 6 or 9 hours; LEDs double as wash stage indicators for wash/rinse/spin
Cold wash: as it says - turns any programme into a cold wash with no other change
Sensitive care: extra water in wash and adds three rinses

The majority of programmes are represented by the ITCL labels as found on garments. A "P" next to the wash symbol means a pre-wash is included (only 90C cottons and 50C Synthetics)

Here they are...


Post# 485057 , Reply# 2   12/29/2010 at 18:18 (4,865 days old) by SuperElectronic (London, UK)        
Programmes

 In addition to the ITCL programmes, we have the following:

QUICK WASHES
29 mins: 30C, 15 mins' wash, interim spin, rinse, distribute, rinse, short spin
44 mins: 40C, 25 mins' wash, as above
A 59 mins: 60C, 35 mins' wash, interim spin, 2 high level rinses with interim and full 1600 spin

Sports: seems to be 30C with a higher than normal water level, normal agitation, apparently 3 rinses and a short spin.

AA40: a long cottons programme at 40C to give A rated wash performance at a lower temp.

The standard programmes are long on the whole!

More later...

Post# 485058 , Reply# 3   12/29/2010 at 18:22 (4,865 days old) by SuperElectronic (London, UK)        
Dispenser

 Not the biggest dispenser in the world and feels a little flimsy but that's no surprise these days.

The conditioner section is hard to clean properly! I'm rather appreciating the old simplicity of the Hotpoint dispenser with its removable compartment for softener.

Post# 485059 , Reply# 4   12/29/2010 at 18:38 (4,865 days old) by SuperElectronic (London, UK)        
Drum

 The drum is shallow but wide: 49.5cm across and an average of 21-22cm deep. I'd guess the volume is the region of 40l. Once upon a time this would have given you a 4kg / 9.1 lb load but now apparently it's 6kg. I'd struggle to find an all cotton load of 6kg so tend to work with the mixed fabrics capacity rating; this machine says it will take 3kg but I'd say this is too much (not that I've tried).

Sadly I've omitted to take a picture but it has a nice pattern on it! The seam running the depth of the drum is rather sharp but I gather this is normal, sadly. The lifters are plastic and specially shaped. It's aesthetically pleasing and seems to move the clothes well enough! Who can say for sure what effect the "hydro domes" (raised bits on the drum) have. The perforations are certainly smaller than on older machines...perhaps all following in Miele's Honeycombed footsteps!

I suspect the metal it on the thin side.

Post# 485060 , Reply# 5   12/29/2010 at 18:48 (4,865 days old) by SuperElectronic (London, UK)        
Noise

 I'm pleased to report it isn't too noisy in operation. Far from silent though. The motor is unfortunately one of those that develops a piercing high pitch whine on speeds between distribute and about 800rpm (similar to modern BSH output...I've read they may actually share motors - anyone know if that's true?)

The pump isn't bad for noise - have heard worse and much easier on the ear than the Hotpoint!

Vibration on spin is slight, though at high speed it does sound a bit like someone running a car engine outside the house. At 1600 rpm one can't expect too much from a relatively inexpensive machine!

Post# 485061 , Reply# 6   12/29/2010 at 18:59 (4,865 days old) by SuperElectronic (London, UK)        
Balancing

 Many of us will know that many of today's front loaders are (or have been) a nightmare for failing / taking ages to spin whilst they attempt to balance the load. The Hoover is generally good at getting on with the job. It does muck about a little bit - and especially using the separate spin cycle: Mum says she could not get it to spin one knitted baby's jacket! Most of the time, however, it will spin 1st or 2nd time.

Having a shallow drum may be an advantage: it's easier to distribute the load over a smaller area...I think, anyway!

It's certainly more stable than the Hotpoint, which had been known to jump and move when spinning heavy loads such as towels. This hasn't been a problem in the Hoover.

Post# 485062 , Reply# 7   12/29/2010 at 19:11 (4,865 days old) by SuperElectronic (London, UK)        
In use...

 So I've covered some of the essentials now and it's time for a bit of user experience.

One of the first programmes I tried was Rinse. This isn't one rinse but 3 at high level ending with a medium spin. The rinses are quite short normally - no more than 2-3 minutes each. The interim spins are usually at 400rpm.

Spins are typically formatted as tumble into distribution, slight acceleration then 2 short bursts, never dropping below distribute in between. The remainder of the spin runs straight through with increasing speed. A full 1600 spin is done in 9 minutes (top speed is only for 2 minutes at the end, though).

If you run the spin programme at Medium speed it just spins at about 600rpm for 4 or 5 minutes. It's a shame it's not more variable but it's only the basic model, I suppose.

Here's a pic of the rinse level when testing.

Post# 485063 , Reply# 8   12/29/2010 at 19:19 (4,865 days old) by SuperElectronic (London, UK)        
Work it, baby!

 The day before yesterday I got a chance to give the machine a good workout with a load of towels on the 60C programme and the Sensitive Care option selected.

Normally, it only gets used on the the short programmes - the others are all a bit too long for my Mother, who's been used to cycles taking 45 mins - 1h 15 tops. They do an adequate job to be fair and the 59 min programme is quite sufficent as a hot wash for towels, even with only 2 rinses.

So off I set on a voyage of discovery...

It lasted a whole three hours! Great fun for those who like washing...

Washing away...

Post# 485067 , Reply# 9   12/29/2010 at 19:33 (4,865 days old) by SuperElectronic (London, UK)        

It washed for just under 1h 55. Sensitive Care gives you more water than normal - the level is up to the door seal and water is visible.

Strangely, the water didn't get all the way to 60C; more like 45-50C from the feel of the door. Whether this is a flaw or by design I can't say - anyone else have any experience? It does heat to 60C on the 59min prog. Maybe the heat is timed or the machine is programmed only to use a certain amount of energy on that cycle, given it's the one by which it will be tested. I did run another quick cycle afterwards - it heated - so it's not a case of the element breaking (thankfully!).

I was perturbed by an acrid hot smell emanating from the machine but saw no smoke; am going to put that down to first use on a long cycle and motor getting hot - I still get a motor smell from the Hotpoint on the hot wash, albeit different. The smell died down as the wash progressed.

There was a a rather scary moment in the first rinse: it stopped completely for 2-3 minutes. I thought it had broken! Just as I went back to check for about the 6th time it mercifully started to tumble again. Phew!

Rinse level on rinse one was extra high...





Post# 485070 , Reply# 10   12/29/2010 at 19:45 (4,865 days old) by SuperElectronic (London, UK)        

Rinse 2 was also high level but - surprise - the remaining 3 extra rinses were all at low level. The interim spins were faster at 800 on this cycle.

When the machine washes at its low water level it seems to alter the tumble pattern: the machine throws the clothes almost into distribution before slowing back to normal pace. I would imagine it helps to make the most of a low water level; it doesn't happen when the water level is higher. Can't judge if it's deliberate or coincidence but it is normal for the design.

Later on I tried the 29min programme for a couple of bath mats. It was quite a nifty little cycle: 15 minutes' washing, a spin, 2 rinses and final spin. Pleased to see a visible water level in the rinses - not too skimpy. Quite why they only use the interim spin after the wash and just disribute between rinses is beyond me!

Post# 485078 , Reply# 11   12/29/2010 at 19:58 (4,865 days old) by SuperElectronic (London, UK)        
Conclusions

 It's difficult to come up with anything particularly useful after only a short time but overall I quite like this little machine. If this is today's basic, it's certainly a marked improvement in terms of what it offers. I'd prefer some more flexibility in the programmes; this does come with models further up the range, however.

I know the build quality won't be noteworthy and doubt very much it will give the long service its predecessor has. But can we really expect longevity when machines are so much cheaper (relatively speaking) than they were?

Anyway, I'm all out of things to say for tonight so feel free to ask questions if you want to know more or need me to expand and clarify things.

Toodles

Alex

Post# 485103 , Reply# 12   12/29/2010 at 22:40 (4,865 days old) by paulinroyton (B)        
Photos

 Hi Alex.

Thank you for posting photos of the Hoover Washing machine. She look a nice machine, love the high water level.

I have a Miele HomeCare washer, very quiet on wash & spin, but the noise of the pump is a bit of a let down. I can,t grumble because I was given the machine for free.

Paul

Post# 485141 , Reply# 13   12/30/2010 at 02:43 (4,865 days old) by nrones ()        
A W E S O M E presentation!!!!!

 Well, maybe people are going to understand that Hoover isn"t as bad as they like to tell... even with no experience! I am glad you arent disappointed with it!

With water+ rinses my Candy GrandOPlus fills alot more than that "extra high" :P It fills over half of the door (drum is full of water more than a half) :P

And yes.. the downside is lenghth of programmes.. but people get on with it after sometime!

Well, I know your mother is mostly using rapid cycles that are mechanical (machine just has to do things by the timeline), but when you use more normal programmes, you will realise that because of sensors, that actually work, you will never get the exactly same programme, no matter you put it on the same setting.. there will always be sth different with interm. spins or rinses... Activa sensor - sense clearness of water ;)

Also, I don"t know how did you made it sudsy! I used every option, detergent.. but I never got my Candy sudsy in the mainwash! It only happend it made a sudslock on the 1st interm. spin, but then it remooved all the suds in first 2 seconds of the rinse :)

Nice thread from you too! :D

cheers,
Dex

Post# 485160 , Reply# 14   12/30/2010 at 04:42 (4,865 days old) by solsburian (SE Northumberland)        

Thanks for the pics and info. I've checked on Which, and your parent's machine scores very well.

I quite like the look of the machine; the powder draw design looks like a nod to the Nextras. Can you can open/close the powder draw when the door is open? I can't do that with mine.

In regards to the drum, I believe those bumps are part of Hoover's "3D Dynamic Wash System" which is supposed to help keep the laundry moving around the drum. I also suspect that the drum metal is thin, 2 or 3 of the bumps in my machine are already dented.


Post# 485219 , Reply# 15   12/30/2010 at 11:37 (4,864 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        

Nice looking machine and a tea trolley! I haven't seen one of those for ever!!

Is it my imagination or does that machine have a tilted drum? Possibly just the angle of some of the pics or maybe I had too much brandy butter?!

Have you tried the wool cycle? I have recently bought a Hoover Nextra and the wool cycle is shockingly poor. I have to wet the clothes before putting them in the machine or they dont even get wet. Absurdly gentle and it is not necessary.

Does it do a cool down at the end of the wash? My old Hotpoint did but the Nextra doesn't and I think it is one of the reasons that my laundry comes out so much more creased than it ever did from the Hotpoint.

As an aside, it has developed a terrible noise when it spins and am thinking seriously of getting rid of it.

One feature that should be compulsary with all tumble action washers is that at the end of the cycle it tumbles the laundry for about 5 mins, detatching it from the sides of the drum and it really helps with eliminating creases. This is how laundromat machines used to complete the wash and wear cycle and it made a massive difference.

Nice pictures! I wish one could go onto a website and specify all the features one wants from a washer; rinse hold, variable spin speed, cold wash options, tumbles at the end of the wash, etc and click 'Build' and the manufacturer just made it to order, it can't be that difficult!! You would get exactly what you want. I don't want 'Sports' and 'Pump Out' and 'Cold Wool Wash'. I want things I will actually use!!



Post# 485255 , Reply# 16   12/30/2010 at 14:51 (4,864 days old) by SuperElectronic (London, UK)        
Answers...

 Thanks for the responses and compliments on the thread, chaps! The pics unfortunately tend to come out a bit grainy but with only the camera on the phone to use it will have to do.

Dex: the wash was done with 150ml Aldi Almat washing powder and it does have a tendency to foam a lot. It's cheap stuff and forms clumps of powder in the drawer so you have to intervene with a jug of hot water to get it to dispense properly.

Interesting what you say about the sensors - I do get the sense that this is more of a "thinking" machine and it will alter the wash profile if needed. Quite a change from the more electro-mechanical machines I've been used to, having been blessed/cursed with machines that last a long time! I'm not sure how many levels the pressure switch would have - maybe just one and an overflow setting perhaps? It's clear the fills are mostly timed based on absorbency established in the early parts of the cycle. The wonders of modern technology, eh!

Solsburian: you can indeed open the door and dispenser at the same time. The other design does seem a bit of a flaw but I suppose not too many people open both at the same time in the normal course of loading the machine. I actually rather like the sound of the 3D Dynamic wash system in principle. If nothing else, the wider drum makes for a good wash action - more space to drop and flop!

Hoovermatic: the drum isn't tilted, it's my camera angles! They have given it a higher and wider porthole for looks and ease of access. I like it.

I tested the wool cycle for 5 minutes to see the action. It's quite similar to the wool wash on an old Hotpoint like mine; the difference is that the pauses between tumbles are much longer after the first minute or two. You do get a high water level and it is rather gentle, but I think there would be just enough action to clean. Wool used to be a regular cycle when my Mum had the Hotpoint but I gather she makes do with using the 29min wash on the Hoover.

There isn't a cooldown on the Hoover that I know of, though I gather it might be activated on synthetics cycles if you use the Sensitive Care option; I know I've seen other similar machines do a partial drain and refill with no post-wash spin. The one problem with the spin cycle on these machine is that although it just gets on with it, there's no tumble between increase in speeds so I wouldn't be surprised if creasing is more of an issue. There's also no post-spin tumble - in fact, once the drum stops turning the machine promptly ends the cycle!

That tea trolley is never used for tea, by the way. I've certainly never seen it wheeled about even though Mum is the sort to do a spot of afternoon tea! It was serving as storage space for cups etc before they added another wall cupboard (and fixed the side panel for the washer enclosure - if you look closely you'll see I had to detach the side panel because the dozy people who built the kitchen only gave my parents 59cm to play with...and we haven't seen a Servis slimline in the shops for a couple of decades now!).

Bye for now...

Alex

Post# 485266 , Reply# 17   12/30/2010 at 15:16 (4,864 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)        
Alex

 paulc's profile picture
Thank you for a super informative description of your Mums machine. I enjoyed reading every word!

Post# 485269 , Reply# 18   12/30/2010 at 15:27 (4,864 days old) by solsburian (SE Northumberland)        

I've been caught out with the draw/door a few times, mainly when I've been filling up the draw and noticed that I'd forgotten to add something to the wash. It was also spotted on the Which reviews for the Candy/Dynamic/Vision models as well.

My Hoover cools down when the temp is set to 90 degrees (I'm not sure if it does it for 60 degrees though) on the Cotton cycle.

@hoovermatic: If you don't mind me asking, was your Nextra new?


Post# 485274 , Reply# 19   12/30/2010 at 15:53 (4,864 days old) by nrones ()        
As I said.. you never know!

 About cooldowns too... Sometimes Candy cools down on 90... but sometimes it doesn"t... also it sometimes cools on 60, and never cools on 50.40.30.*... It also sometimes does a cooldown b4 shuttle rinse when easy iron is selected.. normaly it drains abit, and then fills up, but sometimes it first fills, than drains abit, then fills...
I have 2 years of experience with new Candy, I don"t remember that any of them (basic-GO510, or Top of the line- GO4 1274 LH) did the exactly same cycle 2 times in a row.
Maybe it"s good! :D

cheers,
Dex

Post# 485299 , Reply# 20   12/30/2010 at 17:01 (4,864 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        

@ Solsburian - no, my Nextra was second hand from Ebay, model HNT6414. I think it is fairly new and certainly was little used. It has taken me a while to 'get to know it' and there are things I really dont like about it some of which have been highlighted by other posts here:

If I select 1400 spin there are no intermittent tumbles between spin speeds and I am sure that causes all the additional creasing

None of the programmes have cool down at the end of the wash

Wool wash is a joke for reason already explained

I think it spins after the wash cycle so coupled with no cool down I am thinking that is should be called HooverMATIC!

I am on the lookout for a Miele!

Post# 485305 , Reply# 21   12/30/2010 at 17:15 (4,864 days old) by nrones ()        
Does woolwash look like this?

 This is apparently the newest woolwash from Candy. My GO510 doesn"t have one like that, and I belive both of your"s NeXtra and Optima have like GO510.
So just wanna check..

link to a vid (that you might have seen)


CLICK HERE TO GO TO nrones's LINK
Post# 485307 , Reply# 22   12/30/2010 at 17:22 (4,864 days old) by solsburian (SE Northumberland)        

I'm sorry to hear that - you should have more joy with a Miele though!

Post# 485494 , Reply# 23   12/31/2010 at 13:52 (4,863 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        

Woollens don't need to be treated so gently! That wash action is absurd. I have been washing machine washable wool in automatic machines for years with much more vigorous wash actions and I have NEVER had a problem until now. The manufacturers are just creating gimmicks, as per usual to suck in the lame brained public into believing that is what they need!! I even used to wash woollens in my Hotpoint twin tub when I was at college and had no problems.

Post# 485616 , Reply# 24   1/1/2011 at 08:54 (4,862 days old) by SuperElectronic (London, UK)        
Machine Washable Wool

 I think there's a distinction to be made between the programmes we've been used to for Machine Washable Wool and the new breed more intended to cover Handwash Only woolens. In order to render the wool wash suitable for handwash items (which is, of course, a desirable feature - few people are going to relish the task of handwashing), manufacturers have developed extra gentle cycles. Many of them barely give you a complete revolution of the drum during washing.

I do like the look of the Indesit/Hotpoint wool cycle that involves moving the clothes through the water whilst keeping them pinned to the drum wall at disribution speed. It certainly looks thorough whilst minimising any real mechanical agitation of the garments.

Hoovermatic - am I right in thinking you're the chap who uses top loading tumble machines? I should think the Hoover and certainly the Hotpoint have different programming to their front loading counterparts as they're more-or-less bought in.

Post-wash spins have been standard on most machines for a good few years now to help improve rinse results whilst using less water. Certain makes do give you a cool down on sythetics/easy care cycles at higher temps or maybe if you're using boilwash (e.g. Bosch). Higher end machines might give you an option to reduce creases employing cool down and reduced interim spins - I recall Zanussi had an option on some of their machines at one point. Can't speak for Miele but their manuals are always detailed so you could investigate!

Alex

Post# 485666 , Reply# 25   1/1/2011 at 14:20 (4,862 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        

Hi Alex, yes I am the chap who uses h-axis TL machines, am on my third now and I really like them although, if and when I have this kitchen remodelled I would go back to a front loader. I am on my third h-axis now having started with a Servis then Hotpoint and now Hoover. The Bosch machines are slightly wider than other makes I think and my space is currently VERY tight and there is no room to expand to a Bosch, sadly! So far, I would have to say that the Hotpoint wins the race followed by the Servis and Hoover last. The only reason the Hotpoint beats the Servis is because it did this balancing trick at the end to ensure the opening flaps were at the top so one didn't have to revolve the drum manually to find it. As such, it detached clothes from the drum and got a lot of creases out.

I understand what you mean about the wool/hand wash programmes but it is a retrogressive step in my opinion if my woollens come out half dry and thus unwashed. Am practically having to wash them by hand in order to ensure they are washed properly in the machine!

Post# 485723 , Reply# 26   1/1/2011 at 20:28 (4,862 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        
Ultra gentle woollen wash

 There was one on the cheapy Hoover Excel 1100 that mum had from 2000 - 2006. It didn't wash well on that cycle at all, we had to use "Delicates" as that performed better.

Post# 485998 , Reply# 27   1/3/2011 at 04:44 (4,861 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        

I am going to try the delicate cycle on an old sweater and some formal trousers and see how it goes - I might change to that. Easier than changing the machine!!


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