RCA Whirlpool


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Thread Number: 3251
RCA Whirlpool

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Post# 82349 9/8/2005 at 21:58 (6,801 days old) by Kenmorepeter5 ()
Checkrate/Likes Before I watch the video about RCA Whirlpool, how do I put the detergent (is that right inside of the drum [cylinder] and softner?) How long do the front-load Whirlpool Washer Combination about Begin Wash - Spin (low) (from Wash) - Rinse - Spin (high)- Tumble - Dry -

Post# 82378 , Reply# 1 9/9/2005 at 01:46 (6,801 days old) by Spiraclean (UK)
Checkrate/Likes Hi Peter, I am from the UK so I am not familiar with the vintage RCA Whirlpool combo. Personally with front loaders I prefer to add the detergent directly to the drum on top of the laundry, this prevents detergent loss into the sump area of older machines, and it also keeps the detergent dispenser from clogging up with powder deposits. All the best. Hugh

Post# 82379 , Reply# 2 9/9/2005 at 01:59 (6,801 days old) by SactoTeddyBear ()
Checkrate/Likes *Re: Welcome Peter:* Hi! Peter, Welcome to the wonderful Appliance Club Site. You will no doubt as you have already enjoy reading and sharing on Thread Postings and learning more and more about Vintage and not quite so Vintage Appliances. You will also meet a lot of great people from all over the World here. Now, as for you inqiury about the Whirlpool Combo length of time for Wash/Dry. I've got an Electric 1965 Lady Kenmore Combo Washer/Dryer, that I haven't used for a while now, but from what I remember, it naturally depending on the size of a Load and the Weight of the items, it can take up to around 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 Hours total. It will also depend on the Spin Speed of the Combo Unit, allowing for the amount Water left in the Laundry to be Dried. Take care and Happy Vintage Laundry Days, Steve SactoTeddyBear...

Post# 82416 , Reply# 3 9/9/2005 at 08:22 (6,801 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes Peter, if it is one of the BIG 33 inch wide combos, the detergent went into the drum with the clothes. Fabric softener, diluted with hot water was added during the last rinse through the little dispenser under the door where the dryer lint screen was located. Bleach could also be added during the wash via this dispenser. If you are asking about the 29 inch wide combo with the dispensers on the top, powder or liquid detergent was added through the detergent dispenser. Water circulated through it during wash and all of the rinses. Tablet detergents were loaded in the drum with the laundry. Bleach and diluted fabric softener went into their labeled dispensers to be automatically dispensed; the bleach in the last 4 inutes of wash and the softener during the fill for the 3rd rinse. The 29 inch combo, with a 10 minute wash took 35 minutes for the wash/rinse/spin portion of the cycle. Drying varied. A load of Permapress shirts could be dry in 35 minutes, or at least far enough into the cooldown that you could begin removing them to put on hangers. The thing about the dry time on the Lady Kenmore combo is that it offered a thermostatically controlled cool down in the dry cycle. All of that heavy drum and outer tub really held the heat, to say nothing of the two 2800 Watt fat Calrod-type dryer heaters which ran red/orange hot the whole drying time until the auto dry control was satisfied and over which 90% of the air was pulled. Without the thermal cool down, it took five minutes from the point at which the heat shut off for the dryer to stop. With a heavy load, the thermal cooldown could go on for 20 minutes or more which grossly exaggerated the admittedly long dry time for loads of any weight spun at the top speed, on a good day, of 400 rpm. On the other hand, if you skipped even the 5 minute cool down, you could start another load immediately and have a warm wash with a cold fill, a hot wash with a warm fill or a really hot wash with a hot fill by using the heat stored in the in the hot drum and outer tub.

Post# 82436 , Reply# 4 9/9/2005 at 11:20 (6,801 days old) by steved (Guilderland, New York)
Checkrate/Likes *Tom...* Hey Tom, it's so nice to see you posting again.....SteveD

Post# 82468 , Reply# 5 9/9/2005 at 13:12 (6,801 days old) by kenmorepeter5 ()
Checkrate/Likes *RCA Whirlpool* How do I will clean of the filter lint before start washer?

Post# 82502 , Reply# 6 9/9/2005 at 15:22 (6,801 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes Well, the instructions say to check and clean both the wash and the dry filter before each load so you pull each filter out and clean it generally with your fingers.

Post# 82590 , Reply# 7 9/9/2005 at 20:53 (6,800 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)
Checkrate/Likes Tom, I've never heard that about the 29" combos and stored heat. It sounds awesome for super-hot washes! Were either of the heaters used for water heating in any way? I have to stop, I told John the other night I may have to have one... Oh well, what's one more??

Post# 82605 , Reply# 8 9/9/2005 at 21:43 (6,800 days old) by kenmorepeter5 ()
Checkrate/Likes *RCA Whirlpool Combination's Automatic Shut Off* Is RCA Whirlpool Washer Combination Automatic shut-off from the dryer clothes (timer control)??

Post# 82606 , Reply# 9 9/9/2005 at 21:46 (6,800 days old) by kenmorepeter5 ()
Checkrate/Likes *RCA Whirlpool Combination's Cylinder* Is RCA Whirlpool run of the cylinder for one-direction (tumble)?

Post# 82607 , Reply# 10 9/9/2005 at 21:48 (6,800 days old) by Brent-Aucoin ()
Checkrate/Likes *Yay for the vintage Combo's!* I have always loved the Kenmore and Whirlpool combo's! Your detailed observations Tom, makes me like them even more! Tom, do you have a working LK or Whirlpool combo? Greg, I think that you should go for one! I am actually suprised that you, nor Robert, do not have one! Greg, I think that this would almost make your combo collection complete as far as brands go. I wonder if anyone will every find a Easy, or Hotpoint, or Speed Queen combo in good shape. I actually need to stop myself from saying that because we also said that about the Maytag Combo, and the Westinghouse Combo. And you have two beautiful working models of those. BRING BACK THE COMBO'S! Brent

Post# 82670 , Reply# 11 9/10/2005 at 11:48 (6,800 days old) by kenmorepeter5 ()
Checkrate/Likes *Show me about the RCA Whirlpool Washer Combination* We'll show me about the RCA Whirlpool Washer Combination. OK. How's the dryer's temp about?

Post# 82677 , Reply# 12 9/10/2005 at 14:04 (6,800 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes Greg first: When the 29" combos were first introduced under both the Kenmore and WP names, they did not have a lint screen on top for the dryer. They had an access panel in one of the perforated sections of the drum and in the intake sump at the bottom of the outer tub, there was a lift out filter that had openings around the edge. The dryer's air stream passed through a centrifugal separator like in Kenmore lint storage dryers, Whirlpool dishwashers with the Power Clean soil separator and the failed WP dryers with the lint storage system that, because it had 100 in the name, made people think that it would store 100 dryer loads' worth of lint. Anyway this particular combo had a tranny that ran the pump and belt for the blower all of the time AND SPUN at 500 rpm. Also in the air stream was a damper that either exhausted most all of the air during dry or allowed only a small part of the air to be vented and most of the heated air to recirculate back into the outer tub. If the machine was in the wash portion of the cycle and the water was not hot enough, the dryer heater came on and blew hot air in to heat the water in an indirect way. The portion of vented air was sufficient to carry off the products of combusion in the gas model. This was on both the TOL gas and electric models. When the dry portion of the cycle started, the damper opened to allow most of the air to blow out of the dryer except for the small amount that was spinning the centrifugal separator and was returned to the machine. If you remember, the 29 inch combo starts each wash cycle with a one minute purge. Today it flushes lint from the blower. In the original 29" combo, this was how the lint that was caught in the separator was flushed out and sent down the drain. In theory it was almost magic. In real life there is no magic and trouble happened when large amounts of lint from drying linty loads were washed down into the sump and clogged the strainer or when linty loads were washed and this filter for the wash stream got clogged. There was no alternative to lifting the heavy, wet clothes out of the machine, opening the access panel in the drum and removing the strainer to clean the clog. Customers were not happy with this. WP had to come up with the mother of all retro-fittings. They had to replace the top of the machine to accommodate an opening and lid to access the dryer lint screen. They had to redesign the blower housing to hold a dryer lint screen. They had to replace all of the transmissions with a tranny that had a solenoid operated shifter to alternate power between the pump and the blower and with the loss of the constantly powered blower, the water heating was no longer possible. They also had to provide the filter for the water system. All of this was done in the field and the undercounter installations that had been made possible by the original machine had to have the countertop removed. The other great loss in this was the 500rpm spin. It was dropped to 400rpm. So, no; there was no longer a method of water heating; not the immersion element in the 33" wide electric combos, nor the gas burner sitting next to the U-shaped outer tank of the 33" wide gas models with blower running and damper restricting the airflow during the washes and rinses. The gas burner in the 33" combos had another unfortunate drawback. All of that intense heat right beside the dry tank during the long dry periods, even though the flame did not touch the tank, stressed the porcelain and when it started cracking, water got to the steel and the tanks rusted out. I had an electric BOL WP 33" combo for a while. It was from the house of a friend who got a lot more help with school work from me than he would have if his mom did not usually have this thing running when I came over. When I got it to my basement and took the panels off, I noticed that where the hose for the bleach/softener dispenser terminated above the water line, there were holes rusted through the porcelain tank. I went to the hardware store, got scraps of glass and bought two part epoxy to patch the holes. The Whirlpool service tech who helped me with my combo had worked for Sears when these big beasts were new. He saw my patches and said it had never entered his mind that the tanks could be patched. When they had to take back these machines because customers were not happy with them, they pounded holes through the outer tanks with ice picks, rendering them useless to people who went through the place where they dumped machines. Imagine-- people going through junked appliances! It would be 11 or 12 years before I was doing that. I guess that it is easier to destroy them when you have had to work on them in tight quarters and had to listen to irate owners and were able to see from the get-go that they had serious design flaws.

Post# 82683 , Reply# 13 9/10/2005 at 15:16 (6,800 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)
Checkrate/Likes Very interesting, Tom, thanks for the history lesson on the 29" combos! That certainly was quite a job retrofitting the early models, I can imagine the poor old laides sitting outside on the balcony so as to not have their delicate ears assaulted with the language coming from the laundry closet in the 32 inch wide hallway where the machine was installed - behind a sliding door. You mentioned undercounter installations, was this possible with the early models? I have no experience seeing them run, working on them or the models and changes through the years. The only service info I have is on the 33" 1957 version, and that is quite limited.

Post# 82685 , Reply# 14 9/10/2005 at 16:40 (6,800 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)
Checkrate/Likes *Thanks Tom------* How interesting. I remember Bendix combo's when I was young but never remember those huge Whirly's as Whirlpool was not often found around Atlanta in the early days of automatics.Kenmore was popular and I must have completely ignored the Kenmore versions at the Sears store, to watch the latest "Lady" swirl around the poker chips! By the time I started to pay them attention they had gone to the recirculating spray type wash action. When visiting John Eichinger, it was really interesting to watch his LK Combo in action. I think that was the first time I actually watched an LK combo go through a complete cycle. Any time you have more history stories about these machines I'm all ears!

Post# 82686 , Reply# 15 9/10/2005 at 16:47 (6,800 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes Peter's answers: Peter, I do not know of any 29" Kenmore combos that did not have auto dry termination of the dry cycle. There was only one timer and dry was the last part of the complete cycle. The cycle could be set to stop before drying by choosing WASH ONLY. When the dryer air reached the temperature that indicated that the load was dry, the timer advanced two increments and then shut off the heat. If you opened the door of the electric drying combo during dry and then restarted it, the timer dial advanced one increment immediately on restarting because the safety high limit thermostat above the heater would have tripped without air movement over the red hot heaters. Having two increments before the machine went into cool down allowed for an interruption in the cycle without causing the timer to begin advancing and terminating the drying with still damp clothes. I have seen service literature about 29" Whirlpool combos that showed some models with separate wash and dry timer dials and they might have offered timed dry, but I do not remember. The only 29" WP combo I ever saw was the Ultimatic which only had one timer dial and rows of buttons to operate the lock-stop start positions on the timer like the Lady Kenmore. I do not remember the exhaust air temperature of my electric combo. It had a very short vent run and I remember taking readings once, but it was a very long time ago. It was under 200F for a load of cottons. The Kenmore and Whirlpool combos did not reverse the tumble directions. It was clockwise in the 29" and counterclockwise in the 33". Brent: I had the 33" I described. I had a 29" that John, Jeff and I rebuilt for my townhouse in 1982. It worked a long time, but I pulled it out when I had a new floor put in about a year before selling the place. We tried to get it going earlier this year, but it has problems. John's 29" gas LK is the only one I know of that is operational locally. I think that Bendixboy in Minneapolis-St.Paul has an electric one that works. We even had a machinest who could duplicate the rear bearing for them, but the tranny is the main thing that keeps them down. The air pump that runs on a part of the tranny stops pumping air. Without air to drive the clutches, it won't shift into even the low speed spin. We tried soaking the diaphragm in brake fluid and for a brief time, mine worked, but soon should have been standing there beside Bob Dole in his famous commercial. I hope that in Heaven all of these widly fascinating combos work perfectly, but these old ones are so inefficient. Bendix tied up so many patents and made anyone who manufactured a combo pay them a royalty for each one sold that they were doomed from the start. What Whirlpool did to engineer around the Bendix patents is remarkable. That balancing system with the three tanks and the way the water was shot into the tank opposite the heavy side of the drum was mechanical genius, but it still was very poor at extraction and not very good at rinsing either. The rotating tanks blocked half of the tub area where the heated air for the drying entered so a lot of the air did not even hit the clothes, let alone pass through them. They are so inefficient that it is a shame to use them for more than party demonstrations. I usually tried to spin loads in a toploader before letting them dry in my Lady Kenmore Combo.

Post# 82688 , Reply# 16 9/10/2005 at 17:23 (6,800 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes Steve, All of the WP made combos used the Filter Stream washing action EXCEPT for the bol 29" Kenmore. That one filled up to just below the door and the tumbling clothes made lots of water action. It could really tangle clothes. The weird thing was that it had the same water recirculation system for balancing the tub for the spin, but did not have the Wash Stream. Good old Sears. The first Kenmore combos were not that great for watching. One of the original models did not even have a window, and those small rectangular windows were not the best for viewing the Laundry Channel's soap operas. In the early 70s a Westinghouse laundry and drycleaning center opened in that group of shops on Piedmont, south of Ansley Mall, just beyond the Awful Waffle. They had those Westinghouse dry cleaners based on the combo and it was amazing to see again how slow those things spun. A childless couple across the street from us when I was in elementary school had the WH combo with the black and gold knobs (?) and it seemed to take forever to dry clothes.

Post# 82730 , Reply# 17 9/10/2005 at 23:06 (6,799 days old) by Brent-Aucoin ()
Checkrate/Likes Tom, Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge! Even though most of these machines were prone to failure, the way you talk about them in detail, would make them fun to watch. I have seen John's gas combo. And I just love it. Jimmy "FilterFlo" also has an electric version that works very well. I agree with you. They danced around Bendix's patent, and really were marvels as far as design went. John in DC told me of a few women that still call him to service their LK combo's. Greg! Get one! Brent

Post# 82732 , Reply# 18 9/10/2005 at 23:11 (6,799 days old) by kenmorepeter5 ()
Checkrate/Likes *RCA WP Combination* Have RCA WP detergent, bleach and softner dispensers??

Post# 82734 , Reply# 19 9/10/2005 at 23:23 (6,799 days old) by westytoploader ()
Checkrate/Likes Tom, GREAT information, thanks for sharing. You certainly have a wealth of knowledge when it comes to Whirlpool/Kenmore combos, or any machine for that matter! Interesting how they jumped around the Duomatic patents...ingenious idea of the water-filled balancing system! What principles did the Bendix machines use? I saw in the Applianceville Archives where someone had a 33" Lady Kenmore combo, with the rectangular window, and I've seen ads for the "window-less" models. While the small window impaired viewing the action, it was certainly a beautiful machine!! When did the BOL 29" Kenmore debut? That must have been fun to watch (if it had a window...), with those large dryer-type vanes sloshing the clothes and water around! I experienced "Large Vane Smackulation" at Greg's when Jon fired up the Westinghouse Combo (aka Wash-N-Dry Laundromat)...VERY fun to watch, and since the tub was set pretty low, you could leave the door open! While the Filter-Stream action is still fun in its own regard, IMHO, I definitely prefer to see some SPLASHING through the window! --Austin

Post# 82736 , Reply# 20 9/10/2005 at 23:26 (6,799 days old) by westytoploader ()
Checkrate/Likes *Almost forgot...* Did anyone you know have the non-filtering BOL Kenmore, and are there any machines remaining today or working examples? I'm dying to know!

Post# 82745 , Reply# 21 9/11/2005 at 02:02 (6,799 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *Answers to some questions* I found a classified ad in the early 80s for a Kenmore washer-dryer combination. John called the guy and went and brought it home. The guy was a military electrician and said that he could not make it work. Well, he had a hot line connected to the neutral terminal on the machine. The machine worked fine, except for the awful tangling. You see, these were not just regular fins like you would expect in a tumbler washer. The Kenmore and Whirlpool combos had these 3 big balance tanks that were almost 50% of the tub circumferance and about 1.5 to 2 inches high. They were meant to tumble the load in the wash stream. The dynamics of running them through deep water was pretty wild. Anyway, John finally sold it to someone in a condo where it replaced a GE combo. Like the other 29" combos, it had a big round window. All of our combos were wired so that the tub light stays on while the machine is on for prime viewing, but this model did not have the tub light. Austin, John has the first of the 29" combos. He sorta found it in pieces and it's still in his basement, but he does not use it since it is electric and up til now gas has been cheaper to use for drying clothes. This winter might change that. I do not remember if it was converted or what. I think it was, but it still had the filter in the sump. He showed it to me more than 20 years ago. The deep fill combo was of the 29" style. I do not know how many years it was offered. It was discontinued a year or so before the Lady John has the big 33" kenmore combo with the rectangular window. Ever since I started telling people here about my fascination with appliances and happened to mention combos, various individuals would tell me about this combo in a big church downtown. It was in the kitchen and after various functions, it was loaded with kitchen towels and started. I don't remember the name of the church, but one day at lunch a guy who worked in an office near mine wanted to go to this church because of something to do with work that was being done on the pipe organ. On the way, I said that I wanted to try to see this combo I had heard about. Well, we could not get in to see about the organ work, but I found a door to the building where the kitchen should be and it was unlocked. As I opened the door, I saw that I was two or three floors above the lower level where the kitchen would be. I was going to the glance down the stairwell to see if there were any traces of a kitchen, but when I reached the railing, I looked down and there in the corner of the stairway, three floors down was the Lady, all disconnected. I made good time getting down to where the maintenance supervisor's office was. I introduced myself and asked about the combo. Yes, it had been taken out of service because it was leaking, no, nobody was going to do anything with it, yes, the church would accept a donation for letting me carry it off. I told John about it, but he had to go work on his mountain place that weekend. Jeff volunteered to drive down and help get it out of the place and Bob Wirth was happy to come along also and help us up the 5 stairs to the sidewalk. So we brought it home. It had a very bad leak in a pump seal, but John looked at it and said that it was the same seal that was used in a 17 series KitchenAid pump and in no time he had the leak stopped. Now, in that machine, but not in the WP, outside the top of the outer tank there was a bright tub light over a piece of glass that, while it had to shine through the holes in the drum, gave quite a good light to help you see what was happening inside. This is the machine that had two timers and there is a setting on the dry timer for Wash Only that gave 20 minutes of high heat drying to make washed only loads just a little less wet than if you took them out after the 225rpm spin. This combo also had the provision of being used on a 50 amp circuit which allowed another dryer heating element to be put online to give around 8,000 Watts of drying heat. It had Hot, Medium, Warm and Cold wash settings but it did not have the special fill valve that mixed warm and hot to get medium. If you selected Medium wash water, it filled with warm and turned on the immersion water heater and held the timer until the water had reached the right temperature. If the Hot water was less than 120, it would hold the timer while the water was heated. Oh my gosh, I just realized that you could do a profile wash in this machine by setting it to fill with cold and then turning the wash temp switch to Hot! These were not puny heaters either. The Duomatic's Magic heater which came on for the Hot wash was 3500 Watts. As to how Bendix Duomatics dealt with vibration from high speed spins: Bendix had the whole Duomatic mechanism suspended from springs and supported by two shock absorbers so that it could spin clothes at just over 500 rpm. They patented that and nobody else could do that. That is why the cabinet was 36 inches wide; to give the mechanism sufficient space to swing and to accommodate the shocks, springs and weights. That's the reason that other combos extract so poorly; they had no way of dealing with the dynamic forces of a tub spinning at high speed with a less than perfectly balanced load on a horizontal axis so they had to keep the speed down, or do like the 29" Whirlpool-made machines, keep a few gallons in the bottom of the machine before the 400 rpm spin and use them to supply the tanks that would balance the load as well as to give the machine some extra weight in the center of the base. That is why it sounds so different when it drains after the third rinse. All of the other drain periods have the sound of the solenoid snapping the diverter valve from recirculate to drain and you hear the water pump out and it spins and you hear the valve snap back into recirculate when the spin begins to slow to the tumble speed and it starts filling for another rinse. At the end of the third rinse, you hear the diverter valve snap open and some water rush down the drain then a sudden snap and the water stops draining because the machine has drained to below the bottom of the drum and at the same time, the front diverter valve changes the direction of the recirculating water so that instead going through the Filter Stream spray into the clothing, it is routed to the water spray for the balance ring. Depending on the model, the machine either goes through about 5 minutes of hesitation spins at low speed alternated with tumbling periods or it goes right into a high speed spin attempt. It is during the attempt at high speed spin that the balancing takes place. The drum is traveling in a clockwise direction. When the heavy side of an unbalanced load reaches the 9 to 11 o'clock position, it causes the frame to flex. That flex is transmitted to a little metal flag which is pushed into the stream of water that is spraying at the balance ring at the outside front of the drum. The little flag interrupts the downward spray of the water so that some of it is thrown toward the opening of one or two of the tanks. At the same time as the water is diverted into a tank, the air pressure which is trying to inflate the air-driven clutches is bled off in one of the little ffft sounds. As the tub gets more and more balanced, there are fewer and fewer ffft sounds so more air can inflate the clutches and then, if it all works right and the load can be balanced, the speed levels off at 400 rpm. Of course even then things can go wrong. A little piece of lint can get caught in the little flag mechanism causing a small amount of the water spray to be deflected toward the ring that fills the tanks and after a minute or so of high speed spinning, you start hearing the airbleeding sound and the tub starts slowing down. This is a nasty thing to have happen because it means that you have to take the front of the cabinet off and sometimes both sides so that you can go into the front of the outer tub where the trouble is. John & Jeff's brother Jerry once counted up the number of parts for the Lady Kenmore combo and realized that the total was the same as for a Volkswagon Beetle--1600. That's complexity.

Post# 82763 , Reply# 22 9/11/2005 at 11:38 (6,799 days old) by tlee618 ()
Checkrate/Likes Tom thanks for all that information. What a fascinating machine that must be. Terry

Post# 82768 , Reply# 23 9/11/2005 at 12:05 (6,799 days old) by Brent-Aucoin ()
Checkrate/Likes *Thanks Tom!* Tom, Your writings on the various Lady Kenmore and Whirpool Combo's are so much fun, and educational! Thanks for all of your hard work in teaching us! I wonder if Whirpool has unused model's of all of these combo's. Kinda like the Maytag Museum. When you catch your breath, and rest your fingers from all of your writing... What do you think would be good design to come up with a current Whirlpool Combo? With the fast spins and strong suspensions we have now, and the computers to talk to the motor's and such. I wonder if the combo could be made, keeping some of the same wash / rinse spay system of the older combos. Only thing that I would think would have to change if it was designed on the Duet, would be the huge gasket in the front. I think that I have heard Jeff and John talk about WP had a new combo prototype in Cali. Would love to hear more about that. Thanks again Tom! It made my weekend to learn so much about a machine that I truly love. Brent

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