Thread Number: 33339
Funny... Front Loaders are Junk
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Post# 501766   3/6/2011 at 11:26 (4,654 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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Post# 501782 , Reply# 1   3/6/2011 at 12:21 (4,654 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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If front loaders are junk, why have they been successfully used in Europe and other parts of the world for decades?  HMMMM?

Post# 501787 , Reply# 2   3/6/2011 at 12:33 (4,654 days old) by simpsomatic (Melb, Aust-now Palm Springs,US)        
Trailer Trash

Could not tell who was squawking the most, her or the parakeet with dirty water. Time to have some new supports installed before the trailer gets completely knocked of its foundation. I love front loaders.

This post was last edited 03/06/2011 at 15:14
Post# 501790 , Reply# 3   3/6/2011 at 12:35 (4,654 days old) by Pingmeep ()        

I can't laugh at someone that miserable.

Edit: Looks like someone tried to be constructive in their comments.

Post# 501792 , Reply# 4   3/6/2011 at 12:38 (4,654 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Oh My..!!!

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Shes missed the pre-fix out of "SOME" and even then...

Is it on a Suspended Wooden Floor ( I see tiles but know people cover board) out the window doesnt seem ground level...

But Hey we`ll never satisfy everyone!!! ...Lol

She needs to go and buy the latest upgrade patch version sudz v2.1 with added glowwhite that will sort it out!!!

Post# 501794 , Reply# 5   3/6/2011 at 12:44 (4,654 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

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sorry but i for one am one that don't love front loaders call me old fashion on this but i think that top loaders are more wash efficiant than front loaders and vibrate least on the final spin as well as saving time when it comes to washing a 14 minute wash is more than engough for wash time than having a 40 minute wash sorry but this is my 2 cent on this

Post# 501796 , Reply# 6   3/6/2011 at 13:05 (4,654 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
i like mine...

i have 3 front loads,2 on daily driver row-i like mine,especially the maytag
neptune 3000-i know a lot of people don't like the neptune,but mine had been
great-did figure out it had to have a level and stable footing or it would
not get to top spin speed with an imballanced load,leveled up with a solid
footing it handles imballanced loads very well.
when i bought the neptune in non-working order,there were several things
wrong with it but the fixes were easy and the"dirty sneaker"odor it had has
gone away....

Post# 501801 , Reply# 7   3/6/2011 at 13:15 (4,654 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Looks Like my LG WM2501HWA


It looks just like my LG WM2501HWA I got in November 2010.

Mine will vibrate like that If it was just placed in a different area and one did not level it; ie not all four legs hitting the floor.

I suspect that the machine was never set up at first at all and just shoved in place.

This machine has a better balance scheme than a lessor LG and will work on a 2nd Floor; a friend got one like mine and has it on a 2nd floor.

The machine only weighs 197 Lbs out of the box, real light compared to my 1976 westy which is about 260 to 270 Lbs.


Post# 501803 , Reply# 8   3/6/2011 at 13:25 (4,654 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

If that washer is really in trailer;

she might have the unlucky combo where the washers natural frequency during the SPIN cycle aligns with the floor's natural resonance and thus one is driving the floor at its natural frequency

Thus trying a different spin speed might be tried.

Post# 501825 , Reply# 9   3/6/2011 at 14:52 (4,654 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        
Spin speed?

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I wonder what max spin speed these folks' previous TL washer had!

Frankly... I don't get it! In over a third of a century (or half a century in the case of my family) personal experience with FLs I am yet to see or hear of anything like this... nor have my friends or family!

Old FL had a tendency to jump or maybe scoot due to an occasional imbalance cosí of the lack of an auto balancing system but the majority of them had heavy duty shock absorbers and springs and they were sturdy enough to cope with an internal Ďkickí only when the spin cycle was being launched (with an unfortunate unbalanced load)... without causing any unwanted movements to the cabinet.

The new ones don't usually have this problem if they rely on a decent balancing system. A FL generally has a much harder job than a TL to cope with the potential vibes of an unbalanced load as they have to deal with gravity rather than spinning a statically positioned load of clothes rested on a turning flat surface, hence the presence in these of stabilizing weights and suspension system.

I posted two links below, in one you see how an FL washer without balancing system behaves (the spin cycles start from the 8th minute onwards) and in the 2nd link you see the lovely effects of an unbalanced load in a TL.


Post# 501826 , Reply# 10   3/6/2011 at 14:54 (4,654 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        

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Sorry... the link above refers to the unbalanced top loader... below is the one for the unbalanced front loader.


Post# 501837 , Reply# 11   3/6/2011 at 15:22 (4,654 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        


that woman's FL washer might be in a house on wheels,

ie one that is a prefab trailer type house that once in place is on jacks/blocks; and usually its wheels removed.

Some of these "homes" are really 2 halves that are bolted together.

The floor on one of these is way less stiff than a slab house; which has a 4"/100mm thick concrete slab on the earth

Some prefab trailer type houses are like a flimsy 2nd floor.

Post# 501841 , Reply# 12   3/6/2011 at 15:31 (4,654 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        
Hi 3beltwy...

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but she must have had another washer there before... perhaps it was a lower spin model and did not create vibrations to such extend. I hope those birds won't die of thirst by the time the washer finishes the cycle :-P

Post# 501842 , Reply# 13   3/6/2011 at 15:33 (4,654 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

The LG WM2510HVA FL machine here looks exactly like hers and has no issues with vibration at any load level I have used from 1 to 24 Lbs, but here I have a slab house and I spent 1 minute to adjust the leveling feet.

If one of four the shipping bolts was still in place I would think her machine would vibrate more than her video's vibration problem.

A remote issue is there is a bad shock in her washer.

My bet is the unit is not level.

Sadly I did not even use a level; I just tightened the 4 feet on mine so they all contacted the floor and the gap from washer to floor looked the same. ie I assumed the slab is level

Post# 501866 , Reply# 14   3/6/2011 at 16:08 (4,654 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        

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Well... I wish people would get their levelling sorted before putting stuff in bad light like that. I've seen many ppl (anywhere in the world) who use their machines without removing any of the transit bolts... let alone leaving just 1 in! Then, of course, they complain about shaking dramas!

One neat feature I noticed in some TL washers is that they have a levelling eye incorporated to the top of the cabinet. I've never seen this feature in FLs, probably it's generally assumed that the user would make some kind of arrangements to overcome stability issues... as it is, to say the least, imperative for a suspended tumbler to have its four feet firmly on the ground.

Post# 501867 , Reply# 15   3/6/2011 at 16:10 (4,654 days old) by nrones ()        
no, no, no..

You know.. I made my old Candy jump, I put the whole wet bathrobe on the one side of the drum, and started spin without rotating.. It was literally jumping.. I even filmed it.. (link), but NO, there was NO WAY that you could feel it on the flor 5cm away from it.. not on the other side of the room like on this case!
But she is kinda funny.. I laughed while I was watching that vid xD


Post# 501868 , Reply# 16   3/6/2011 at 16:12 (4,654 days old) by golittlesport (California)        

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That floor is definitely not a cement slab. I thought to myself "she must live in a mobile home" when I watched her video. Same problem a lot of folks with older homes have if the laundry is on the second floor.

I have a second floor laundry and front load washer, but the house is newer and built very well. No vibration at all. And no odors either because I read the directions and know how to properly use it.

Post# 501889 , Reply# 17   3/6/2011 at 16:32 (4,654 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

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my washer dryer is on the second floor and i can say that what i don't like about my front loader is the when it go into its spin sequance it not only vibrates but it echos as well so this is another thing that i don't like about front loaders but i rarely notice this when i had a top load washer so thats why in a way i am going back to a top load washer when the front loader i have breaks

Post# 501914 , Reply# 18   3/6/2011 at 17:15 (4,654 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
From what I've read here...

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The Front Loader "Stink" issue is due to Cold water washing and Nasty residue built up inside the Outer drum.

I do not own one yet as I was pursuing a Front Loader recently and that was one of my concerns. But as I said, I do not own one yet and never wash in Cold Water.

The way she is whipping around that Cam Corder, I am thinking she must have had a few "Beverages" during Laundry Day and has had it with Poorly Trained Techs.

Although yes, it could be the construction of her home as well.

Post# 501936 , Reply# 19   3/6/2011 at 17:56 (4,654 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

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me i would not say this since i always wash in cold water as it saves energy and never had bad smells in my whirlpool duet washer and the only time i use the hot water temp is when i wash bed sheets other wise i wash in warm water and cold water

Post# 501995 , Reply# 20   3/6/2011 at 20:13 (4,653 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Front Loader!

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If it's LG of course its junk!

Post# 502003 , Reply# 21   3/6/2011 at 20:22 (4,653 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

Here I suppose I will junk mine in 5 years and it would thus so cost 120 bucks per year to use.

Post# 502196 , Reply# 22   3/7/2011 at 14:41 (4,653 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        

This TL v FL argument will rumble on for ever and ever and from the many hundreds of post on here about it I hazard a guess that the manufacturers of FL machines for the USA market have a few things to learn before they are going to win over some people.

However, I am totally baffled by the issue with mould and bad odours from USA FL machines. Like many in the UK and Europe, in all the 30+ years I have been using/coming in contact with them, I have NEVER come across this problem nor met or heard of anyone who has. I can't begin to think why it is a problem and as that dreadful woman in the video pointed out, she has to buy another product to keep the machine clean!!

Post# 502201 , Reply# 23   3/7/2011 at 14:49 (4,653 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)        

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I think part of the problem is the majority of US detergents do not contain oxygen bleach, plus people in the US tend to have a laundry day, so if they close the door on the machine it may be sitting for several days before the next load is ran. My M.I.L uses Liquid detergent and shuts the door between washes and the boot on her machine is black with mold.

Post# 502251 , Reply# 24   3/7/2011 at 18:06 (4,653 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

Re "However, I am totally baffled by the issue with mould and bad odours from USA FL machines"

Here as an American too I am baffled too; since both out 1947 and 1976 Front loaders never had these issues at all.

The Mold issue is really NEW to American front loaders, since the FL machines have been used here about 70 years now.

Mold and bad smells with American Front loaders is a new thing with American Front Loaders, on some models after the mid 1990's. ie when the Average Joe really started to use them a lot more.

Thus from say 1940 to 1995; ie over 1/2 century we had ZERO mold and bad smells on our FL washers. New FL machines came out in the 1990's, then newbies blamed everything known to man except the darn new washers.

Most Americans really never used a FL washer before 1995; thus naturally newcomers blame detergents, cold washing, versus a design issue.

One has a complex set of reasons,

new washers leave water still in the tub. The smelly washer site says 1 to 2 gallons. An American front loader from 50 years ago leaves a few cups.

Old washers had porcelain tubs and spin baskets; new uses plastic, stainless and aluminum.

One has Top Load folks who are use to using gobs of soap

A neighbors 1990's Maytag Neptune FL washer stunk so bad "one had to hold ones hose to walk through the laundry room" or "it smells like an open sewer"

Newcomers to FL washers here in the USA cannot accept that us older FL users have older FL machines with no smell issues, even with cold water and liquids.

Thus the poor less robust new FL designs are defended; and the blame is placed on the water and soaps, NOT the washer.

Here I never heard of smells and mold from a FL washer until a Neighbor had the smelly Maytag Neptune, ie 50 years after our first 1947 FL washer. At first I thought is was a JOKE, ie like smelly car bumper, or smelly iron board iron.

Besides mold and smells; one has in the USA Aluminum spider failures with modern FL washers. That half corroded Aluminum spider has crud growing in it.

Post# 502255 , Reply# 25   3/7/2011 at 18:26 (4,653 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

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me i have a front loader that dates from 2004 and never had mold or bad smell issues because when i wash in cold water or warm water i use least detergent than what is recommended on the detergent liquid bottle instruction and at least half a month or before the month ends i use afresh washer cleaner when recommended and when not needed i start the washer and let it run a full cycle with no clothes in it and leave the door open or half open and always open the detergent dispenser drawer to see if there is exess water if so i open and close the dispenser witch gets rid of the extra water or empty it by hand.

Post# 502256 , Reply# 26   3/7/2011 at 18:34 (4,653 days old) by hoover1100 (U.K.)        
over 1/2 century we had ZERO mold and bad smells on our FL w

Well, that's not true, as people have reported on here memories of vintage machines that smelt due to misuse.

It's interesting how most of the machines I have access to (aside from my parent's Miele) have plastic outer tubs, aluminium spiders and use very little water, yet none of them have ever had even the slightest hint of smells, residues, build ups or mould, have only ever known of a drum spider failing on one machine, and that was a machine that never saw hot water, was only used with liquid detergent (i.e. no oxygen bleach) and was always left with the door shut.

Perhaps the issue is that U.S. detergents (be it powder or liquid) rarely contain oxygen bleach, and it seems to me, do not contain zeolites or phosphonates (which are the reason our detergents clean just as well without phosphates as they did before they were removed). If people do not add seperate bleach (be it oxygen or chlorine based) and live in hard water areas but do not have a mechanical water softner, the machine is going to be a haven for bacteria, full of soils deposited from the wash and mineral scale.

Perhaps a machine with less plastic parts and a better designed wash profile OR raised water levels will be less prone to these issues, but when used CORRECTLY, a cheaper modern front loader will not suffer these issues either.

It's not what you've got it's how you use it afterall :-)


Post# 502300 , Reply# 27   3/7/2011 at 21:50 (4,652 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
foul odors...

myself,i have only delt with two washers that reeked;my F/L maytag neptune
when i first got it,and a very grubby 24"DD top load kenmore-i was able to
get the odors out of both quite easily.

Post# 502339 , Reply# 28   3/8/2011 at 02:37 (4,652 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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I've had front-loading washers since 1986, and have never had an odor problem. The new Frigidaire 4474 is the first machine I've owned with a CLEAN WASHER cycle, which prompts me to do so every 50 cycles. I sometimes put off using that cycle for an extra 10-20 loads, but I eventually run it. It fills and tumbles with the cleaner (Tide Washing Machine Cleaner, as that's what's available; the manual suggests a massive dose of chlorine bleach). The CLEAN WASHER cycle uses about 7 gallons of water (two fills) and takes 41 minutes.

I use liquid chlorine bleach in 2-3 loads per week. A couple of years ago, I washed exclusively in cold water for about 10 months (but still used LCB on whites) and had no problems.

I always pat the boot dry, wipe down the glass in the door, and empty any standing water from the dispenser drawer---which also stays open between washings.

Post# 502678 , Reply# 29   3/9/2011 at 09:08 (4,651 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        


my take is that old American FL washers never had any mold issues; and the new 1990's American FL washers were built by engineers really with zero experience in Front Loaders.

The 1976 FL westy's mechanism design about from 1955, the pump from the 1940's. The spin basket and tub from about 1962 to 1988 was about the same. The 1988 to 1993 units just added a German torquer motor with the 1960's parts.

When a new design say the American FL of the mid 1990's is reborn, about all the old farts who sweated subtle details were retired or long dead. Thus to me it is not really surprising that early Maytag Neptune FL washers DID have design issues that caused mold.

In Europe, I am not sure if there ever was a giant ramp up of Front loaders when before few used them.

Look at the USA's problems with front wheel drive cars, we did not get these right with our first models either.


RE "I use liquid chlorine bleach in 2-3 loads per week. "

Here I only wash about 2-3 loads per week. I have never used any chlorine bleach in my new LG FL I got last November.

When I ran the 1976 FL Westy from 2006 to 2010, I only used chlorine bleach a few times a year. I used it mosty after Katrina. Even before Katrina the machine from 1976 to 2005 was not used much with chlorine bleach at all. I might buy a gallon jug every year and more than half would be used for non laundry stuff. The point I am trying to make is with older FL machines that had no mold issues, many of us used liquid detergents and little chlorine bleach.

Post# 502684 , Reply# 30   3/9/2011 at 09:27 (4,651 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        

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Is why the Plant Based Fabric Conditioners and lack of a hot fill seems a most likely scenario !!!

Post# 502695 , Reply# 31   3/9/2011 at 10:21 (4,651 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

Our beloved center timer tags were prone to trampoline on  a weak wooden floor, i remember posts from years ago were folks who had  Whirlpool or Kenmore machines were very upset when they changed over to a Maytag. No intent to hijack the thread but this is not a new phenomenon. alr2903

Post# 502700 , Reply# 32   3/9/2011 at 10:48 (4,651 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        


"Is why the Plant Based Fabric Conditioners and lack of a hot fill seems a most likely scenario !!! "

But that conflicts with some of us who really about never use hot washes or fabric softeners at all. I personally have never bought a bottle of fabric softener in the last 20 years; and really bought a couple before this when I lived in California.

Here the water is so soft that I have only used fabric softener maybe once in the last decade, typically with some new sheets or some odd thing. My moms couple bottles of its still are in the laundry room from cicra 1990. With my current LG I washed once since November with hot as just an experiment, mostly I use Cold and a few times warm. I probably use a hot wash in about 1 out of 50 to 100 washes, probably a fabric conditioner once a leap year.

Here most of my washing is with liquid detergents and cold water. Fabric softener really has no purpose for me, the couple bottles here from 1990 will last me another 100 years.

That ladies FL LG is actually a variant that works better on a 2nd Floor than the lower LG models. It has a better balancing scheme. It is the same as my machine,and the same one placed in a 2nd story here locally for a friend.

Post# 502709 , Reply# 33   3/9/2011 at 11:21 (4,651 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        

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are you saying "You are getting mold" ???

Post# 502742 , Reply# 34   3/9/2011 at 13:17 (4,651 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

Re "are you saying "You are getting mold" ??? "

I am saying I DO NO GET MOLD; and I use all the things folks on this website preach as the reasons, ie cold water and liquids.

Here I know folks with newer FL washers who are fabric conditioner addicts and liquids that have no mold issues; and some too that do not use fabric conditioners but use powders and have molds; thus the causes seem to be not so black and white.

Post# 502752 , Reply# 35   3/9/2011 at 13:42 (4,651 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

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me i use liquid detergent and when needed bleach and i never had mold or bad smells in my washer and on occasion i also use liquid fabric sofner and i mostly wash in cold water and warm water only time i use hot water is for bed sheets and to show i am posting my wash pattern here

Light colors clothe the temp i use is warm water

Dark colors clothes the temp i use is cold water

hand wash fabrics cold water wash

bleachable T-Shirts and rags hot water wash

bedsheets no bleach hot water wash

and Please note that for most canadians or us that have know top loaders most of there life are not use to front loaders and have to adjust and for us and canadian front loaders the detergent use must be he high efficency or say on the bottle made for all machines and he machines as well. ok that was my 2 cent here

Post# 502780 , Reply# 36   3/9/2011 at 15:28 (4,651 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

The USA has had long sagas of folks with Front Load mold problems and smells ever since "America rediscovered the front loader in 1995"

Here is an old Aug 2008 Consumer Reports link and many comments by folks with front load mold problems.

Some comments are funny in an odd way:

Posted by: H-Stillwater | Sep 2, 2008 3:46:50 PM

"I can't in the absolute least understand what you people are complaining about! I have had my fl washer for one year now and it is absolutely the best thing ever! I love it.

I love saving electricity and water!

Update, well its 1.5 years now, and my washer works well. I have noticed the electricity and water bills have been a bit less. Yay!
I clean the gasket and leave the door open after each wash. This is just great.

Update: 4 years.

I hate this washer. The money I have spent on cleaning it, running empty wash cycles with affresh and hot water! My water and electricity bills are back where they used to be. My husband couldn't stand the smell of his shirts any more and took the machine apart. Every piece of the machine that carried water is covered in black gunk and/or mold. It stinks so bad!

I did everything I was suppose to as I loved my machine... and it reeks! It is a stinking moldy disgusting-ness piece of crap.

I have spent more than 500.00 in cleaning aids, maintenance/repair technicians, and affresh tablets.

We are throwing it out. Today I went to find a top loader at the store. This poor lady was looking at buying a FL. I told her to research it, and google "smelly front loader" before she bought.

Ha! Maybe I saved her some pain... I sure hope so. "


Post# 502785 , Reply# 37   3/9/2011 at 16:02 (4,651 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

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thank you for the link from what i read in your post and this is just my tough i think that some us or canadian are just not ready yet for front loaders sure i have one now as a daily driver and like it but for me du to my size and having to sit down to load unload the washer is an inconviniance but i respect those that have a front load washer so i think that top load or front load the choice is personel and it also depends on the buyer 's budget as newer front loaders cost more

Post# 504008 , Reply# 38   3/14/2011 at 12:03 (4,646 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Maybe Europe's machines use more water?

I always thought that Europe's 24" frontloaders did not use much water, until I saw this video: )


Post# 504012 , Reply# 39   3/14/2011 at 12:24 (4,646 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        
Maybe Europe's machines use more water?

Hahahah, very funny ;)

Post# 504064 , Reply# 40   3/14/2011 at 15:36 (4,646 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        

I think the main cause of the mould in the machines is:

cold water washes + overdosed liquid detergent + overdosed fabric conditioner + not leaving the door open at the end of the cycle.

You could save yourselves an awful lot of grief by:
washing in warm to hot water + using a powder detergent + leaving the door ajar at the end.

I stopped using fabric conditioner, due to it leaving the dispenser drawer fusty smelling.

Post# 504066 , Reply# 41   3/14/2011 at 15:47 (4,646 days old) by limey ()        
Age of Machine

To Rolls-rapide.
How old is that machine?
I thought Rolls went belly up in the 1960's or somewhere thereabouts?

Post# 504067 , Reply# 42   3/14/2011 at 15:48 (4,646 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

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me i wash in cold water and NEVER had this problem

Post# 504079 , Reply# 43   3/14/2011 at 16:46 (4,646 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        
Rolls twinnies

is there any YouTube footage of these machines?

Post# 504087 , Reply# 44   3/14/2011 at 17:08 (4,646 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Front Load Washer Mold Investigation

see link :
" If you have a front load washer that develops mold you should not accept this as a normal condition or event.

It isnít normal.

It exists and happens because of defective design, parts, components and workmanship"


Post# 504090 , Reply# 45   3/14/2011 at 17:17 (4,646 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

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not only defective parts or poor worksmen ship there is also the fact that sometime the washer can be full of water if there is water in the washer near the component

Post# 504091 , Reply# 46   3/14/2011 at 17:17 (4,646 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Miele too?



Post# 504097 , Reply# 47   3/14/2011 at 17:36 (4,646 days old) by lavamat_jon (UK)        
Mould/mildew =

User error, nothing else.

Post# 504104 , Reply# 48   3/14/2011 at 17:46 (4,646 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
front loader washers and pets

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one thing i need to had is if you have a pet and wash a pet bed in a front loader be sure to check the gasket as pet hair might acumulate there and cause mould or mildew as well as get in the washer 's components i know every 2 months i washe in my duet washer my chocolate lab 's pet bed

Post# 504136 , Reply# 49   3/14/2011 at 19:12 (4,646 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        

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3beltwesty I couldn't stop laughing after clicking on those links! In the first article there's probably some sense in what they're saying but it all gets incredibly absurd when it shows pictures of visible mould growing on very visible and wipeable parts of the porthole O-ring!

Probably I'd be inclined to support this case if the affected components were somehow hidden or impossible to be reached by the user... blimey... the rubber gasket can accidentally get wiped even by your own clean clothes while unloading the washer... how long does it take to give it a swift wipe?

The second article confirms the general misguidance of this type of speculation... and.. of course... whether it's Miele, LG, Electrolux or whatever-have-you, it will suffer the exact same symptoms as one another having been used by people with high levels of inncompetence: these are the people who should stick by washing in the river!

Post# 504181 , Reply# 50   3/14/2011 at 23:07 (4,645 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
When I bought this house the '78 GE Filter-Flo top loader stank.

It smelled like old chewing tobacco.

Eventually I pulled the top panel off, and lo and behold was a thick furry brown layer of mold.

I moved the washer and replaced it with a front loader - a Neptune 7500. The Neptune has NEVER had an off odor, period. And that's after ten years of regular use.

So please spare us the "front loaders are junk" type of pissing contest.

Post# 504219 , Reply# 51   3/15/2011 at 08:32 (4,645 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Why defend poor designs?

RE "So please spare us the "front loaders are junk" type of p-ssing contest."

It is the earlier mid 1990's ? first Maytag Neptune Frontloader's that won the "contest" of folks saying their laundry room "is like an open sewer" . I heard my employee who was a neighbor too complain about this issue for many many years.

Ie one hears the "I have to hold my nose so as not to puke when walking through the laundry room" comment many hundreds of times over several years, until the old machine was replaced with a TL machine the old one scrapped and crushed. ie an American failure of a design.

One hears how they bought the Maytag based on Maytag's once great reputation of the zillion TV adverts of the "lonely Maytag repairman, where nothing every was wrong", and feel ripped off by a horrible product.

You hear about how the boot was replaced several times, wax motor issues, of how many attempts were made to fix the beast. You hear how your employee/neighbor got paid off to buy a top loader, to get rid of the foul machine. You hear about the class action lawsuits too. The "pay off" was only good for a top loader, they just punted and took back the old FL and it got crushed.

As a user of the old 1947 and later 1976 westy front loaders, it was rather interesting to hear how a new design smelled like an open sewer. It too is interesting too that poor less robust Newer designs are tolerated as being normal, and how now one has to clean ones FL washer.

Post# 504221 , Reply# 52   3/15/2011 at 08:39 (4,645 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
about maytag neptune washers

pierreandreply4's profile picture
before they decided to change the desing for the desing shown in the second pic that i will post in my second post there was lots of recalls about this desing

Post# 504223 , Reply# 53   3/15/2011 at 08:41 (4,645 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
Second picture

pierreandreply4's profile picture
and when they change to this desing witch i bough for my mother summer place there was only a minor recall but no complaints since they change to this desing around 2006 pic also includes matching dryer

Post# 504225 , Reply# 54   3/15/2011 at 08:52 (4,645 days old) by roscoe62 (Canada)        

I had the first design Neptune and if I know now what I didn't know then I'd have kept it since now I have a better knowledge of product usage. One thing I did find with my Neptune was when it went into the first spin from the wash cycle it was very short lived, so I'm thinking it may have been the impetus for all the poor rinsing I had experienced compared to the my duet that spins for at least two minutes or possibly more before going into the first rinse.
Live and learn :)

Post# 504249 , Reply# 55   3/15/2011 at 11:40 (4,645 days old) by mrx ()        

Maybe US machines are gone too extreme with water saving:

Check out this European machine : (Hotpoint/Ariston Aqualtis)

Rinse levels are way higher than a US machine.


Post# 504250 , Reply# 56   3/15/2011 at 11:42 (4,645 days old) by mrx ()        
European Bosch Rinsing

Here's a European Bosch model rinsing :

Again: notice the water level


Post# 504251 , Reply# 57   3/15/2011 at 11:46 (4,645 days old) by mrx ()        
Beko rinse

Here's another European machine, a Beko doing a rinse with loads of water + a power jet!


Post# 504278 , Reply# 58   3/15/2011 at 13:22 (4,645 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

Wow; here in the usa the modern mid 1990's and later FL washers trend is a rinse is really a water shower. One really see's no clothes in water. Maybe this is due to our water police.

Post# 504281 , Reply# 59   3/15/2011 at 13:44 (4,645 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
i think that also the save water is not only applied in the us but it also applys to canada as well if you look at my duet washer if i wash a load in warm water on the Normal/Casual cycle before the first drain spin my washer adds cold water and if i wash the same load in cold water i save nearly 70% in water use as my duet washer skips adding cold water on the same cycle

Post# 504317 , Reply# 60   3/15/2011 at 16:38 (4,645 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        
Rinse water level and Euro comrades...

haxisfan's profile picture
I don't wanna spoil the fun here... I'd just like to set some facts straight. When you buy a European washing machine you are faced with a colourful energy label and a handful of specifications which include the water consumption averaging at 7.5l per kilo of laundry (less than 2 gallons per 2.2lb) and that means just that! On a standard heavy duty/cotton cycle (without the use of additional options such as 'extra rinse', 'super wash', 'fast iron' and all other names under the sun) your clothes are not going to swim in water even during the rinse cycle, however some machines might mislead you to think that your water well is running dry (figure of speech) by lessening the number of rinses and allowing a higher water level to compensate.

Now let's talk facts... how many litres per kilogram of laundry does an American FL average? Just a quick example to support what I've said about the deceiving amount of water used during rinse in a European FL: let's say a 6kg (13lb) washer needs 45l (approx 12 gallons) for a complete cycle (the type of cycle I hinted at earlier)... let's consider a 45l (approx) drum full of clothes (the European way of filling up a washer... which is right if one wants to follow the manufacturer's indications)... now let's press the start button and the cycle begins... the washer would require something in the region of 15-18 litres to carry out the main wash phase (thatíll give you a low water level as most of the water available would have been absorbed by the load)... so, the remaining 30l or less is what the machine has got left for the cycle to complete the rinse stage.

At this point it's up to the manufacturer and the way the machine has been programmed to divide that amount of water into few rinses... preferably 2, so that the user can put a smile on their face and see some water reaching up the glass bowl (the water level during this stage is higher than the main wash cosí the clothes did not absorb so much water as they did when the were dry... the spin cycle after the main wash only gets 50% or less water out of them).

I can show you exactly what I mean by the 2 links I added below of 2 separate wash cycles in the same washer with similar size loads but with different wash programmes... 1 is a 2 rinse cycle and the other is a 3 rinse cycle. In both cases the washer uses an overall similar amount of water but the rinses are carried out in a different way.

All this to say... if you are debating, smell problems and other inefficiencies from FLs I am still not convinced that we are on the right track by putting this issue down to water levels... unless itís so inadequate in American FL washers that barely wets the clothes (even on the main wash) or the entrails of the machine itself for that matter.

If you care to follow the links below and watch the videos go to 6.30 where the 2 rinse cycle startsÖ Iíll give you further instructions on the next post for the next link to a 3 rinse cycle programme.


Post# 504318 , Reply# 61   3/15/2011 at 16:39 (4,645 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        
2 vs 3 rinse cycle...

haxisfan's profile picture
The 3 rinse cycle starts around 6.00.


Post# 504329 , Reply# 62   3/15/2011 at 17:29 (4,645 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
thank you for posting the videos but as i watch these videos i would say that for the same load 1 rinse is engough and would like to say that using cold water for the same load of whites would save mostly 80% in energy and get the same cleaning power than being wash in hot water(just a fact) for me the only major time i would use the hot water setting is for bed sheets or if i have a load that would need bleach other wise i mostly use cold and warm water setting on my duet washer and my next washer will always be on the cold water setting since it will most likely be a top load washer like the model in this link

CLICK HERE TO GO TO pierreandreply4's LINK

Post# 504338 , Reply# 63   3/15/2011 at 18:25 (4,645 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        

haxisfan's profile picture
Are you trying my French out? Well... it's fine by me when it comes to reading it... speaking it... mais oui... that's another story ;-)

Merci beaucoup for the link... TLs are fine with just 1 rinse as they would already use as much water as a FL would for a whole cycle (unless they're HE). As for washing with hot/boiling water... you're right... and TBH I don't very often use it... but in that instance cos' of some very stubborn stains that needed a little extra boost to shift.

If you go earlier in the video I posted above around 4.25 you'll see a silly waste of water which wouldn't have happened if I used a lower temperature... so that proves your point as to saving even more resources by means of using cooler water settings.

Post# 504344 , Reply# 64   3/15/2011 at 18:44 (4,645 days old) by mrx ()        

European regulations only look at a single wash cycle type though i.e. the standard cotton wash.
Almost every machine has "water plus" or "aqua plus". They also usually have shorter deeper wash options e.g. the PowerWash on Bosch or Bed&Bath on Hotpoint's Aqualtis for example.

So, you can always just increase the water level as you need to.

Post# 504449 , Reply# 65   3/16/2011 at 04:39 (4,644 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        
Hi mrx

haxisfan's profile picture
That's right... the things I was saying above bear the assumption that these washers are operated without the use of such selectable options... thus I only wanted to shed light over the fact that although European washing machines are not water guzzlers, you don't find many people (if any at all) that complain about foul odours or alien build-ups in them.

I would think that American/Canadian FLs have those options too... or have they?

It's amazing how water level and energy related options have been shuffled around between older and newer machines: the old ones tended to have economy options to allow the user to save water and energy whereas the new ones have settings to increase these instead!

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