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Thread Number: 33902
RCA Whirlpool, not CA, this time I checked my typign |
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Post# 509406 4/5/2011 at 09:35 (4,759 days old) by akronman  (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Here's a few more pics, I fooled with the machine while waiting for Ebay to deliver the new pump and wig-wag. However, after 10 minutes running, the pump now works, and I think the wig-wag too, but only $40 spent, so I'll have them when needed.
I already cleaned an 1/8 inch layer of crud from tub top, will CLR do the rest? And I've seen the fabric softener dispenser plunger operate properly, don't know yet about the bleach. But with all the spray rinses, isn't it kinda dumb to bother with softener? 
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Post# 509408 , Reply# 1 4/5/2011 at 09:37 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Lid Shot | ||
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Post# 509411 , Reply# 2 4/5/2011 at 09:40 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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wig-wag | ||
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Post# 509412 , Reply# 3 4/5/2011 at 09:41 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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paint | ||
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Post# 509413 , Reply# 4 4/5/2011 at 09:43 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Surgilator | ||
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Post# 509430 , Reply# 5 4/5/2011 at 10:17 (4,759 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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1960 WP IMPERAL MARK 12 WASHER Hi again the cam bars should be lubricated with automotive type grease the wig-wag with light machine oil [ turbine oil zoom spout etc ] there is a hole on the top of wig-wag on each side that is for the purpose of oiling these. Vaseline is not a recommended lubricant for any mechanical part of this washer, These machines were originally considered to be 9lb capacity machines you could probably put a little more in but I consider all bigger claims to be false. Try weighing a pile of cotton clothing and see how big a pile of 9lbs is. It is an 18 gallon machine WP made the same capacity machines from 1947-1987, it was later called large capacity but of coerce they also had super capacity machines starting around 1967. | ||
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Post# 509536 , Reply# 6 4/5/2011 at 19:10 (4,759 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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| Post# 509569 , Reply# 7 4/5/2011 at 21:16 (4,759 days old) by BugsyJones () | ||
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Completely unrelated to your washer.... What's that book to the far left in the last picture? It looks familiar from my youth. ~Tim | ||
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Post# 509593 , Reply# 8 4/5/2011 at 23:26 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Off subject | ||
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Post# 509594 , Reply# 9 4/5/2011 at 23:26 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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rear cover | ||
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Post# 509596 , Reply# 10 4/5/2011 at 23:31 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Now the good stuff
IT's down in the basement, new fill hose, felt bumpers on feet, and running pretty well. I used an autmotive liquid gasket around the tub port for the water level hose, cured that small leak, only to find another minor leak at the other port, tub-to-filter-pump. That will be a chore for tomorrow, it's about a drop per minute.
It sure is a smaller tub than I'm used to, but turnover for appropriate load seems great. 
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Post# 509597 , Reply# 11 4/5/2011 at 23:34 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Magic Mix Dispensing Filter | ||
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Post# 509598 , Reply# 12 4/5/2011 at 23:37 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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wig wag | ||
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Post# 509599 , Reply# 13 4/5/2011 at 23:38 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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filter | ||
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Post# 509600 , Reply# 14 4/5/2011 at 23:52 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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mostly a working machine
Agitation in high and low speed is good, it clunks properly when shifting and wigging-wagging, neatral drain is powerful, and spin is not quite Filter Flo or 'Tag, but adequate. It does 4 spray rinses for almost every single spin ( I've only tried 4 of 10 cycles so far) which about halfway undoes the fabric softening, typical for Kenmore, I think.
And the spray seems to slow down the spin considerably by the 4th time, though the pumping and hose seems fine for neutral, hmmm...???? But then there's enough time to get back up to speed fully in the final spin. The fabric soft dispenser plunger works but seems, so far, to go off during the initial spin, dropping softener into the tub port-to-filter pump hose, maybe it collects there and gets into the deep rinse once recirculating begins? I don't yet believe that the bleach plunger works, and I think I may just leave that assembly as is, don't know. So there is still some work to do, I like a fun project, but for $50 and no ability to plug/plumb it in when I bought it from a dusty unused corner of a basement, I lucked out incredibly. But I am a bit unthrilled with the 9 pound tub in that HUGE machine, 29 inch, and the sprays undoing the fabric softener, and the only medium extraction speeds typical to Whirlpool, but then SOMETHING HAPPENED. See this pic first, then down below 
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Post# 509601 , Reply# 15 4/5/2011 at 23:54 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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I remembered I bought a new light bulb | ||
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Post# 509602 , Reply# 16 4/5/2011 at 23:56 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Lighted console | ||
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Post# 509603 , Reply# 17 4/5/2011 at 23:59 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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more lights | ||
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Post# 509604 , Reply# 18 4/6/2011 at 00:01 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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night light | ||
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Post# 509607 , Reply# 19 4/6/2011 at 00:10 (4,759 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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That's the old-style wigwag & plungers for sure. Amazing if it's the original wigwag (note, the correct technical name of the wigwag is control magnet assembly).
Just wondering if maybe the filter housing has been changed. Our 1962 Whirly had a turquoise housing. I've seen white on later machines, 1970s.
Regards to the slowed spin by the 4th spray ... if this machine has a pump protector manifold at the tub outlet, there's a weep-hole in it to release/prevent vapor lock that can get clogged with lint/debris. Not saying that's the case for sure, just a possibility. The hole can be cleared with length of wire or a long allen wrench or other such thing, by aiming just right through a basket perf. You have to know how the manifold is constructed, where to aim. Sorry, I don't have a visual of it.
Delicate cycle(s) may not have sprays in the final spin. Can't say about W-n-W.
Fantastic to see this machine coming alive. | ||
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Post# 509610 , Reply# 20 4/6/2011 at 00:17 (4,759 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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One problem
I removed the water fill valve to take to the store for proper hose, and I may have miswired it. I'm not used to 3 solenoid valves, Hot MEd Warm, can someone explain how it functions? Since it's all a preprogrammed timer, ther's no switches for temp, and I have to cycle thru a load to check this out.... or many loads. After one very wrong fill, I switched the top and bottom wires. Now Hot is true hot, Cold is true cold, but I can't tell any diff between MED and WARM.
Thanks for any help-- | ||
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Post# 509655 , Reply# 21 4/6/2011 at 07:02 (4,758 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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Post# 509665 , Reply# 22 4/6/2011 at 07:49 (4,758 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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1960 WP IMPERAL MARK 12 WASHER The orignal lint filter chamber would have been black on this model and yes your machine has the orignal control magnet assembly [ I do prefer the correct term ]. Some WP BD washers do bog down in the spin cycle when spray rinsing but they really shouldn't. It could have a blocked vent hole in the pin trap, it may have a weak water pump or even a loose or worn drive belt. But if all else fails try using a low sudsing HE detergent. Water temps, if the hot & cold are correct then you have the valve wired properly assuming that one white wire is on each solenoid coil. When the machine calls for the medium temperature the hot coil and the center warm coil are used, this should give you a temperature half way between what you get on warm and hot. If your hot water is around 140 degrees it should be around 120 degrees. | ||
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Post# 509668 , Reply# 23 4/6/2011 at 08:31 (4,758 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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pin trap
Where is the pin trap? New pump should arrive in a day or so, if you can tell me where the pin trap is, I'll clear it out at same time. My filter Flo, extra capacity tub, sometimes gets quite bogged down during sprays, because of GE's excessively long spray and large overloads in tub, but this is a much smaller tub and fewer, shorter sprays, so it surprised me. The new pump will be installed when it arrives, but I also want to check this pin trap I've heard tell of. But the neutral drain seems as fast as any other machine.
Yes there's a white wire on each solenoid, so I'll trust that the valve is working correctly. My water tank is set med-high, but I really don't pay much attention to dishwasher/laundry/hot water use unless ready for the shower, I know I sometimes run laundry when tank is kinda just warm, my own fault. Combo----Martin----Thanks for your help Another thing-----porcelain top is very clean white, but all other components are off-white, uniformly aged/yellowed. Is this likley due to aged paint, as opposed to color choice? I'm worried that my usual sand/primer/rustoleum will stand out like a sore thumb unless I repaint the entire machine 100%. It's a noticeable difference in shades, but it is a white machine. Non-color blind friends say it's all white, but pure porcelain white versus faded. I think it's gonna make the paint job an all or nothing. | ||
| Post# 509693 , Reply# 24 4/6/2011 at 10:21 (4,758 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
"Fantastic to see this machine coming alive." | ||
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Post# 510086 , Reply# 25 4/7/2011 at 21:06 (4,757 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Slow down during spray rinse
I think I fixed it. I searched here for photos of the exterior tub, figured out that Whirlpool-Kenmore had the tub sump way up front. My machine was tilted a bit towards the rear, I think it was holding water in the rear of the tub. So I shimmed the back legs just about a 1/4 inch, almost unnoticeable, and all that slow down stopped. I ran one of the exact same loads, towels, no problem with forward tilting Whirlpool. I've run about 4 other loads since, and never again a slow down at 3rd or 4th spray, while it had happened almost every single time before.
I did get the new pump from Ebay today, but with all aspects of drain/pump seeming fine, I'm not replacing it yet. One question-----the filtering continues to flow during first half of neutral drain, until the water level drops below the tub post. Is that correct, or is it a sign of poor pump? Thanks | ||
| Post# 510088 , Reply# 26 4/7/2011 at 21:14 (4,757 days old) by mixfinder () | ||
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Trouser Tracks It is 100% normal for the filter to recirculate until the water falls below the level to service it. | ||
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Post# 510094 , Reply# 27 4/7/2011 at 21:26 (4,757 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Correct. The four ports of the pump constitute separate recirculation and drain sections. Recirculation is pulled from an outlet at side of the tub and continues until the water level drains below it. Water would drain during agitation, except for the flapper valve in the pump obstructing the pump's outlet port. The flapper valve is shifted open or closed by the agitate cam bar. | ||
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Post# 510098 , Reply# 28 4/7/2011 at 21:31 (4,757 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Thanks | ||
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Post# 510134 , Reply# 29 4/8/2011 at 02:05 (4,757 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Congratulations! It's a beautiful machine and it literally had your name on it!
You must be feeling a super-surgilated sense of gratification and satisfaction having accomplished such a great revival operation!
It was destined to end up in your hands. Great job, and here's to many years of enjoyment. That includes just sitting there and admiring it even when it's not running. | ||
| Post# 510146 , Reply# 30 4/8/2011 at 06:10 (4,756 days old) by autowasherfreak () | ||
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So happy you got her up and running again. She's a beauty! | ||
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Post# 510161 , Reply# 31 4/8/2011 at 07:47 (4,756 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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1960 WP IMPERAL MARK 12 WASHER Mark I am glad you figured out the spray rinse draining problem, when ever I work on BD WP built washers I have always adjusted the feet so the left front corner of the machine is a bit lower as it really does help. Perfectly level is OK but tilted to the LF is better, this would also apply to thier DD washers, you never want them tilting to the rear. Now GE FF washers are another matter as they work better if they are slightly tilted to the rear. | ||
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Post# 510171 , Reply# 32 4/8/2011 at 09:01 (4,756 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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On WP pumps and cabinets tilting back
I have done the same thing that John/Combo just said - it is MUCH better to have a machine either level or tilting slightly front left. Since the tub drains are in the front left corner, this will allow the tub to fully drain, and not allow water to remain, which can eventually cause rust in the outer tub.
As to the pumps that Glenn mentioned above, the four port pump and the original two port (a sibling of the four port) do NOT have a flapper valve shut off in them. The shifting lever is used to switch directions of water flow in the top half of the pump. The lower half of the four port (which is absent in a two port) operates at all times in same direction. The top two ports circulate water from right to left during agitation, and from left to right during drain. Water is never stopped or blocked in these pumps. This is why on some models using either the 2 or 4 port pumps, that water can be sucked in from the drain hose at any time during agitation. There is a pump with a flapper valve that shuts-off water flow, but this is the newer two port and three port pumps which have the off-set chamber on their left sides. This pump was introduced around 1974. This pump moves water in one direction only, from left to right, and during agitation, the flapper closes water flow off so the machine won't drain. This is why this family of pumps cannot be used in machines with self-cleaning lint filters which operate with circulating water. Gordon | ||
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Post# 510174 , Reply# 33 4/8/2011 at 09:14 (4,756 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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WP BD WASHER PUMPS | ||
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Post# 510188 , Reply# 34 4/8/2011 at 09:50 (4,756 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Thanks but more help needed
Thank you all ---Kenmoreguy and combo, the pump description lets me know how to someday maybe turn this into a poorman's suds-saver, and the tilt Left Front works perfectly.
But check my newest thread, www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T... because now I'm having inlet solenoid diaphragm issues. It's a 3 solenoid Detroit controls valve, various rebuild kits seem to have become NLA in just the last year. And potentially a minor tub leak for repair, but one item at a time. This one is a keeper and a beauty and a rare find, but that doesn't mean she's perfect yet. Thanks for all your input! CLICK HERE TO GO TO akronman's LINK | ||
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Post# 510192 , Reply# 35 4/8/2011 at 10:07 (4,756 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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You're absolutely right John, I don't think about suds models often.
The newer single direction two and three port pumps were used in most all non-suds BDs from 1982 or so when the basket mounted filters became WP's fad. For some reason, the old two-port was not used with this filter, I'm thinking because it can get clogged with lint since the basket mount's lint actually goes through the filter vs. being flushed downline from it in the older self cleaners. The four port pump was used on all machines that had the triple dispenser, as the lower ports were used to feed the dispenser instead of a lint filter. To me that is sort of a neat bit of trivia that such a common pump in the 50s and 60s BDs still had a use until the very end. The two port was used on suds models of all the rest of the machines since they needed the old two-port's ability to reverse flow to send water back into the machine. The old two port was also used on the last BOL belt-drives that had no filters at all. Production of these ended around 1984 I think when the early DDs took over that segment of the model line. G | ||
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Post# 510193 , Reply# 36 4/8/2011 at 10:14 (4,756 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Mark -
John may be a better source of info than I am on the solenoid. Three temp solenoids weren't used much past the mid-60s I don't believe on these machines, but I could be off on that a little. If rebuild kits were only discontinued last year, you may want to see if you can find a knowledgeable person at the manufacturer as often they can look in their computers to see where the last ones were shipped. Someone may have it on a shelf somewhere. You may want to check Sears also, they keep old parts longer than many places, AND you may want to look at the chances of replacing the entire valve assembly. If someone here has a working unit that will fit your machine, that may be the best solution. GOOD LUCK - you have a really dandy washer there! Gordon | ||
| Post# 510308 , Reply# 37 4/8/2011 at 19:23 (4,756 days old) by toploadloyalist (San Luis Obispo, CA) | ||
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What's the difference between MEDIUM and WARM water? | ||
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Post# 510332 , Reply# 38 4/8/2011 at 21:21 (4,756 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 511448 , Reply# 39 4/14/2011 at 11:22 (4,750 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Water and oil leaks
This Whirlpool is a great and fun washer, but there's a slight water leak from between the exterior tub and the big base plate, near the filter outlet hose but not from it, damn it. IT's minor, but will need repair.
Worse, see pic, tranny leak. The pic shows the small leak from about 6 loads where the washer is now, and then a larger stain to the left in this pic and on top of that balancing/leveling board, from where it sat for first 15 loads or so. I know it's more than is supposed to be occuring, so I'm looking at a pretty decent job ahead of me. And the leaking fluid is near black, it's time for a rebuild. I feel it's well worth it on this classic old girl, and I've never yet failed mechanically/automotive/electric/plumbing, so I'll retire the machine for a few weeks and then start tearing into it. I have an early 70's Whirlpool Kenmore repair guide, it even details this machine's 3-solenoid water valve and the pushbutton timer set-up, but most likely the best help will come from this here AW website. This model may be rare, but WP/KM is common as dirt, thank God, so I'm betting any/all seals/washers/tranny parts are still easily available. 
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Post# 511455 , Reply# 41 4/14/2011 at 11:56 (4,750 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Whirlpool Tranny leak
Mixfinder----oh it will be a mess for sure, my boyfriend will gripe, but he'll also help with the paint job and detailing, that's his expertise. And he already advised me on how to paint those raised lettering and symbols on the console glass, once everything else is done. Despite thinking I'm a fool, he is impressed that my name MARK is right there in the glass.
The tranny leak seems to come entirely from the uppermost seal on the mian drive pulley shaft, right under the main pulley, then drips down all over the place. 2 offbeat questions---What program do some of you folks use to mark up jpegs in here? Also, sometimes you embed a short video right inside these threads, instead of a link to YouTube. How do you do that? Spray rinse-----When I was working on the water valve, I noticed that 2/3 of the spray goes into the outer tub, giving pretty poor results for the spray rinse. 
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Post# 511456 , Reply# 42 4/14/2011 at 11:58 (4,750 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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fixed it | ||
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Post# 511459 , Reply# 43 4/14/2011 at 12:09 (4,750 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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last one
here it is, works for me, helps the rinsing.
After a total of about 2 dozen loads of clothes, I'm impressed with turnover and rinsing and overall abilities of this small tub old machine. Early on, I adjusted the water level to within an inch of the tub lid flange, I'm getting great turnover on even a few overloaded batches. The bleach dispenser works, the fabric softener too, but then of course it sprays most of that out with the final spin-rinse. The "cool-down" cycles are sort of dumb compared to my 70's Maytag and GE. On this machine, there's no additional agitation as the cool water comes in. First---Half drain, then refill, then immediate half drain again, refill, I think it goes 3 times, then finally does some agitation. On the other hand, I really couldn't care less about cooldown cycles, I think they are a waste of water and time personally. But on the GE, there's agitation after the partial fills, so I sometimes use that cycle as an extra deluxe super rinse feature. This Whirlpool does have an extra rinse, 11th button, comes in handy. Anyhows, great agitation, rock solid performance on spin and spray rinse and I love the looks and the pushbuttons, so this will be my first major repair job, it's time to learn and this one is worth it. Minor interior rust, I've seen and fixed LOTS worse. 
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Post# 511471 , Reply# 44 4/14/2011 at 13:14 (4,750 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Mark -
That's an ingenious method to divert spray water into the basket!!! I love it!!! It has always bugged me that much of the spray doesn't hit the clothes. I concluded however that since WP never changed this, it must accomplish something. The spray soaks the side of the basket, and it helps in lint and suds removal, and helps flush suds out of the outer tub when a suds lock is in progress. With today's low sudsing detergents, all that is probably not important. Regarding the oil leak - it looks like the oil in your machine is becoming (or did a long time ago) contaminated. MANY belt drives, if not all of them, will drip a little bit of transmission oil with use. As a kid, I always expected to clean this up with our machines whenever we moved them. That said, the oil is normally golden yellow in color. When it gets cola brown or worse, it usually means that water is mixing with the oil and causing parts inside to rust and contaminate the oil. They don't leak at the volume you're seeing however. I used to think that a flooded transmission wasn't possible in the old centerpost machines where the centerpost itself is nearly as tall as the full-basket water line. But, I know now that it is possible, it just takes longer to happen as seals degrade in the centerpost that trap air under the agitator instead of water at a low point in the centerpost. Newer machines with short centerposts can have this same transmission flooding occur, but much sooner in their lives than their older counterparts did. In your machine's case, I would think the seals are very dried, and probably not very effective. Raising the water level will worsen this problem a lot. If your seals are bad and are not trapping any air under the agitator, then a super-high water level will present water right to the bearing and agitator shaft. The eventual result is a flooded transmission. Most of the time I have found oil to come out of the transmission at the agitator shaft, not the drive pulley shaft, but I can see how this could happen if it's worn. Some here will say that a flooded transmission is probably not usable again in a rebuilt condition, but I have one that was ugly with oil & water in 1995 that I cleaned and rebuilt. I have added at least 1,000 loads to it's "clock" since then with only normal operation from it. If you take apart your gearcase, drain off the old bilge oil, put the parts through a parts washer flush, and re-assemble it all with the right oil and a new cover seal, you'll be fine, especially with the limited use we AW.orgers tend to put on vintage machines. Good luck with that, let us know if you need any help. Gordon | ||
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Post# 512042 , Reply# 45 4/17/2011 at 21:09 (4,747 days old) by washerlover (The Big Island, Hawai’i) |
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Post# 512444 , Reply# 46 4/19/2011 at 19:48 (4,745 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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agitate during partial fill/cool-down To the best of my knoowledge, that was a feature exclusive to the Kenmore brand. Initially, even Kenmores didn't do that. They just refilled and drained several times and the 1959 or 1960 model 70 my best friend in high school's mom had, I don't think it agitated at all. When I moved into the dorm my freshman year in fall 1973, the laundry room on my floor had the typical Maytag avocado greene machines with the 6 cycle selector knob. It's cooldown was I think one fill and did not agitate, just went right into spin. Didn't move the warm water around from the side where it had filled. | ||
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