Thread Number: 33908
Clog on a KitchenAid KDS-16 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 509489   4/5/2011 at 15:17 (4,763 days old) by bxb209 ()        

Greetings All,

I have a KDS-16 KitchenAid dishwasher that normally works great, unfortunately now it won't drain water due to a clog or something.

I can get the cancel drain function to work however.

I have disassembled as much of the components I could in order to get to the drain valve to clear the clog. I'm hitting a snag though as I'm not sure where the drainage valve is, and there's one final plate I cannot remove even after the screws have been removed.

Does anyone have any experience with dishwasher?

ANY help is much appreciated.




Post# 509502 , Reply# 1   4/5/2011 at 16:21 (4,763 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Hold on Partner!

 Start by putting back all the parts you took out so far in the correct order, then:

1st question:
Did you just install a new disposer and does the dishwashewr drain into it? If so, did you knock out the knock out in the disposer that would open up the line for the dishwasher to drain. In other words, where the DW connects to the disposer, you need to knock the plug out before connecting the hose to it. Review the installation guide that came with the disposer.

2nd question;
Does the machine drain if you hit the cancel drain button?

If it does, then you could have a timer or program button issue to explore.

3rd questio:
If it does not drain at all, did you check that the drain solenoid is actually working? You should hear a loud click noise when the coil of the drain valve energizes. If you don't you will have to check to see if youa re getting 120 volts to it when draining is called for.

The drain valve is located behind the lower front panel. So check there first for proper operation. Debris can work its way past the filters on the machine and get stuck in the valve preventing it from working.

Check these things out and report back and we will walk you thru the repair if needed.
email me if you want to.
Steve

Post# 509525 , Reply# 2   4/5/2011 at 18:21 (4,763 days old) by bxb209 ()        

Thanks for the reply.

I haven't installed or changed anything. I'm pretty sure this is my fault as I poured the contents of a soapy saucepan into the dishwasher drain. Now if I pour water into the bottom it does not drain like normal.

As for a garbage disposal, I don't have one. I imagine the line feeds into the basement somewhere. It appears this dishwasher setup has been present as is for a while.

Yes, the cancel drain functions.

Should I try fishing the drain valve? I should make sure I know where it is first. I emailed KitchenAid for a manual but so far they have not responded.

I can take a picture showing where I think it may be.

Thanks for the help.



Post# 509533 , Reply# 3   4/5/2011 at 19:04 (4,763 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

What were the contents of the soapy sauce pan?

 

Have you removed the wash arm and the filter underneath to see if the filter is clogged? 
Post# 509537 , Reply# 4   4/5/2011 at 19:11 (4,763 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture
If you happen to narrow down the diagnosis to a bad timer, there's a new one on Ebay. BTW, these timers are hard to come by, especially new in the box. *Hint, Hint*

CLICK HERE TO GO TO qsd-dan's LINK on eBay


Post# 509538 , Reply# 5   4/5/2011 at 19:12 (4,763 days old) by bxb209 ()        

Tomato sauce I believe.

I've removed everything I can so far and no sign of any clogged filter, I'm not even sure if this model has a filter like the newer models do.

Post# 509539 , Reply# 6   4/5/2011 at 19:13 (4,763 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

The big metal mesh thing that's underr the 4-way hydrosweet wash arm is the filter.  It's quite sizeable. 
Post# 509541 , Reply# 7   4/5/2011 at 19:26 (4,763 days old) by bxb209 ()        

Oh ok, that's the filter. Yes, I've removed that and am quite a few steps past that in disassembly. The filter mesh looks ok, the issue is with the drain valve I believe.

I may have found it. Is it on the left side and rather small? Rectangular and smaller than a penny?

Post# 509542 , Reply# 8   4/5/2011 at 19:28 (4,763 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Keep us posted!!!
Post# 509549 , Reply# 9   4/5/2011 at 20:23 (4,763 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture


The drain valve is under the tub, with a couple hoses attached.  You can't get to it from the inside by removing the filter, etc.

There's no functional difference in draining via the Cancel/Drain cycle button vs. the normal drain periods that occur during a full cycle.  Cancel/Drain simply advances the timer to the last drain period after the final rinse, before dry, runs that drain increment, then advances the timer to off.  Pressing Cancel/Drain when the machine is already off cranks the timer around to that last drain period, runs it, then shuts off again.  If Cancel/Drain works but one or more other drain periods during a full cycle don't, then the problem may be bad spots, worn cams, in the timer.
Post# 509564 , Reply# 10   4/5/2011 at 21:08 (4,763 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
great scan, DADoES

 Barry,
The scan above shows the original 90 degree drain valve.I am emailing you a scan of the straight thru valves that may be on your machine.

There is no snaking out the unit or any chemical you can throw in to make it work. If in fact, the dishwasher drains completely on cancel drain, then there are timer issues. But have you tried every cycle to see what happens? It may only be one particular one that is a problem. Check further and report back.

Post# 509565 , Reply# 11   4/5/2011 at 21:08 (4,763 days old) by bxb209 ()        

"The drain valve is under the tub, with a couple hoses attached. You can't get to it from the inside by removing the filter, etc."

I was afraid of that.

"There's no functional difference in draining via the Cancel/Drain cycle button vs. the normal drain periods that occur during a full cycle. Cancel/Drain simply advances the timer to the last drain period after the final rinse, before dry, runs that drain increment, then advances the timer to off."

Well that occurred to me that if cancel drain works there can't be a clog, but then why doesn't the normal draining work, i.e. pouring water in the bottom?

Thank you for the diagram.

Post# 509568 , Reply# 12   4/5/2011 at 21:15 (4,763 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Pumped drain

 Barry, your machine drains only when the motor is running. There is a drain impeller which in reality, is always trying to drain the water out, but it cannot do that until the drain valve(solenoid)opens to let the water out. So pouring water into it will only result in the tank filling up.

The older Kitchenaids prior to the Model 15 series had a gravity drain unless it was bought with the built in drain pump. But let's not confuse you any more.



Post# 509570 , Reply# 13   4/5/2011 at 21:19 (4,763 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
So...maybe nothing is actually wrong with the machine after

So, You say it drains but not if you pour water in it like the soapy pasta pot!

And you say it drains on cancel and on normal cycles..so then what is the problem besides that you were not familiar with the workings of your machine?
Am I reading all this correctly?

Post# 509577 , Reply# 14   4/5/2011 at 21:43 (4,763 days old) by bxb209 ()        

Without a manual I have to gauge and guess as best as I can.

"So...maybe nothing is actually wrong with the machine after all?"

I wish that were the case... I just reassembled everything and did a test run. Within the first two minutes I am getting a leak on both sides of the machine so I stopped it.

Post# 509650 , Reply# 15   4/6/2011 at 06:28 (4,762 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)        

Barry, It almost sounds like it may be Over filling. I wonder if something is blocking the overflow protection switch in the tank.

Post# 509659 , Reply# 16   4/6/2011 at 07:21 (4,762 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
KDS-16 LEAKING

 combo52's profile picture

When ever any DW leaks when it is running around or under the door, open the door and if it is filled with suds or very foamy water you have accidently gotten some non DW detergent in the machine. If this happens fill the open detergent cup with cooking oil close the door and let the machine run, or do a cancel drain and start a few rinse& hold cycles till the leaking stops. You may need to put an old bath towel down on the floor in front of the machine to catch the dripping.
Post# 509687 , Reply# 17   4/6/2011 at 10:12 (4,762 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Downy to the wire!

 Well, if you want, you might want to try a small amount of fabric softener to cut the suds and then a few rinse and holds after that too.
Maybe you have a large residue from the pasta pot still lurking in there!

Post# 509692 , Reply# 18   4/6/2011 at 10:17 (4,762 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
A switrch in time, saves nine?

 Cuffs, good thought there on the switch and it is possible that it could be malfunctioning. However, the 15-17 models used pressure switches to control water levels like washers and the small hole in the sump sometimes clogs with debris. One has to be very careful when trying to repair this issue as the little nipple that the hose connects to in the sump will often break off after this many years if too m uch force is exerted on it. Then you have a problem trying to fix it.
But the FLOAT type switches premiered on the 18 series and continues to this day as you may well know.

Post# 509724 , Reply# 19   4/6/2011 at 12:30 (4,762 days old) by bxb209 ()        

"Maybe you have a large residue from the pasta pot still lurking in there!"

I hope you're right. On that hope I ran a full load and it completed washing the dishes properly. I did have a small to moderate leak, about a cup of dirty water.

I will run some more test rinses and such and see if the leak goes away.

Thanks everyone for your help. This is a GREAT forum.

Post# 511235 , Reply# 20   4/13/2011 at 07:55 (4,755 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        
Leak On Both Sides Of The Machine

 beekeyknee's profile picture
Did you run the machine w/o the bottom rack in it? If you did, that could explain the two leaks on both sides of the machine. There are two tabs at both front corners of the lower rack that stick out at a 45 degree angle from the rack. These seem to have something to do with a KA leaking at the corners. I did that myself once, but when I put the rack back in, the leaking stopped.

Post# 511246 , Reply# 21   4/13/2011 at 09:36 (4,755 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Suds in DW

 ozzie908's profile picture
I noticed there are other suggestions on how to get rid of over sudsing in machines other than the one I have always used and thats sprinkling table salt on the foam wait for it to dissolve and then retry a pump out.! I will try the oil one when I have to that is a new one...!

Post# 718627 , Reply# 22   12/1/2013 at 01:08 (3,793 days old) by mkbrennanmd ()        
Answer! Clogged Hose or Drain Problems Fix - Replace Hose

 If your drain hose is clogged or dishwasher won't empty the water, or stops mid-cycle or leaks. You most likely have to replace the drain hose. This video will show you how to do it, and its very quick and easy to do. I knew nothing about these machines, and this videos was created so individuals can save money and make the repair themselves confidently. It will cost $10-15 and take about 20 Minutes.






CLICK HERE TO GO TO mkbrennanmd's LINK
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